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Dear Alan,

 

> it does state in the inroduction to Talks "the whole

> had the seal of approval of Sri Bhagavan himself,as the records

> were always shown him for his approval or the necessary

> alteration after they had been entered in the notebook",your

> correspomdent does not quote this

 

Very good point, Alan. As you may know, the anonymous

correspondent cites two kinds of evidence in his letter that suggests

the contrary. Maybe I'll send this quotation to him and ask his

reaction.

 

> However the works written

> by Bhagavan himself in Collected Works do not suffer from

> interpretation only from the problems of translation

 

I wish we could assume this, but I don't think we can. Some of the

works that carry his byline were actually written by other people, and

in some cases, there are good reasons to doubt whether

the texts have come down to us in a form of which Bhagavan

would approve.

 

As an example of this, see the following page of David

Godman's website where he discusses an interpolated paragraph

in "Who Am I?" which is no longer identified as such in

current editions (search on "interpolated"):

 

http://davidgodman.org/rteach/whoami1.shtml

 

> We must

> remember that Bhagavan had a good working knowledge of

> English having been educated in an American Mission School

> until he went to Arunachala ,and was well capable of correcting

> English translators and interpreters .

 

Yes, certainly. Nobody here is suggesting that Bhagavan was

incapable of reviewing the book. His English was quite good,

and among his many gifts was a brilliant talent for language and

literature: composing poetry, interpreting the scriptures, editing

other people's work, etc.

 

> Chadwich recounts in his

> Memoirs that Bhagavan was scrupulous in correcting his Poetic

> Rendings of Ramana's Writings..

 

As you probably know, my correspondent reports that Bhagavan

wasn't always so scrupulous about corrections. According to him,

there are numerous well-known instances where Bhagavan reviewed

written material and returned it to the author without making corrections,

even though there were many inaccuracies.

 

I wonder whether anyone else tends to feel as I do about these

written works. I feel a tremendous reverence for Bhagavan,

and this reverence transfers over to these books. For example,

I always wash my hands before I pick one of them up.

 

Perhaps it takes a certain effort to avoid having one's critical

judgement be clouded by such feelings.

 

I try to remember that these books are only books, written by

fallible human beings as all books are, and that they contain numerous

mistakes of all sorts.

 

And I try to remember that it suggests no disrespect for Bhagavan

to regard the books in this way. On the contrary. A proper

respect requires an exercise of the same critical judgment that

we would bring to bear on any texts that we wish to study

carefully.

 

Best wishes,

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

"Alan Adams-Jacobs" <alanadamsjacobs

<RamanaMaharshi>

Wednesday, January 07, 2004 11:29 AM

[RamanaMaharshi] Talks

 

 

> Dear Rob , it does state in the inroduction to Talks "the whole

> had the seal of approval of Sri Bhagavan himself,as the records

> were always shown him for his approval or the necessary

> alteration after they had been entered in the notebook",your

> correspomdent does not quote this .However the works written

> by Bhagavan himself in Collected Works do not suffer from

> interpretation only from the problems of translation .We must

> remember that Bhagavan had a good working knowledge of

> English having been educated in an American Mission School

> until he went to Arunachala ,and was well capable of correcting

> English translators and interpreters .Chadwich recounts in his

> Memoirs that Bhagavan was scrupulous in correcting his Poetic

> Rendings of Ramana's Writings..Hope this throws some light on

> a thorny problem.Every best wish and regards ,as ever ,Alan

>

>

>

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---Dear Rob ,I agree that you are right to sound this warning note .We should

as you suggest

never suspend our critical discrimination when confronted by the printed word .I

feel however that

the essence of his Teaching is conveyed adequately by Talks , and that where a

passage resonates

strongly for you, one should give it full attention .Thank you for bringing this

question to our

notice .Renewed best wishes , Alan

 

 

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Dear Alan,

 

> I feel however that

> the essence of his Teaching is conveyed adequately by Talks , and that where a

passage resonates

> strongly for you, one should give it full attention.

 

I agree with you completely. The book remains

immensely valuable even after we understand what

it is and is not. More valuable, perhaps.

 

Best wishes,

 

Rob

 

 

-

"Alan Jacobs" <alanadamsjacobs

<RamanaMaharshi>

Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:30 PM

Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Talks

 

 

> ---Dear Rob ,I agree that you are right to sound this warning note .We should

as you suggest

> never suspend our critical discrimination when confronted by the printed word

..I feel however that

> the essence of his Teaching is conveyed adequately by Talks , and that where a

passage resonates

> strongly for you, one should give it full attention .Thank you for bringing

this question to our

> notice .Renewed best wishes , Alan

>

>

> ______________________

> Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping"

> your friends today! Download Messenger Now

> http://uk.messenger./download/index.html

>

>

> Post message: RamanaMaharshi

> Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi-

> Un: RamanaMaharshi

> List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi

>

>

> Links

>

>

> RamanaMaharshi/

>

>

> RamanaMaharshi

>

> Your

>

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>

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Dear Michael L., Miles, Rob, Alan and ALL,

 

By now we are familiar with this thread. It is an

interesting topic. This is the story of the history

of religion. After the death/samadhi of an acharya,

there isn't a common understanding among the devotees.

Even someone who lived as recently as Bhagavan is not

clearly understood. There is confusion which spawns

discussion. Persons quote various sources that may or

may not be authoritative or translated properly. That

isn't all bad. But in the end I think that the only

thing that can be ascertained is that there are a

number of techniques by which one can do sadhana.

 

I came to the knowledge of the Maharshi and atma

vichara rather late in my life. I'm sure that it was

just as well for me because it came at a time when it

was just right and it was easy to do and there wasn't

anybody to talk to about how to do it and so there

wasn't any confustion.

 

Even though I've never been a good person, I have

always been led to effective spiritual practices at

the right time for me. I think that my life has been

that way because in my life I was a desparate seeker.

I was like a madman. In the days of my sadhana I did

it like I was a man dying of thirst and seeking water.

 

Then what happens is that all existence becomes your

guru. We awaken to the sadguru. To the few the

sadguru mmanifests in the form of a human. To others

the guru manifests in other ways and in other things.

But it is our awakening to the guru that is important.

 

Having obtained the grace of the guru through ardent

desire and by through the practice of effective means

one is not drowned in this vast ocean of existence.

Call it what you will.

 

And the whole discussion began about how to practice

Self Inquiry and what did Bhagavan really mean by the

direct path and which literay sources are

authoritative and what can we believe? Hence, what to

do?

 

Invoke the guru. Surrender to your guru. Give it up

to your guru. Then follow your guru and I think that

in the end you must do whatever you really think is

best.

 

Warmest regards,

 

michael

 

--- Rob Sacks <editor wrote:

> Dear Alan,

>

> > I feel however that

> > the essence of his Teaching is conveyed adequately

> by Talks , and that where a passage resonates

> > strongly for you, one should give it full

> attention.

>

> I agree with you completely. The book remains

> immensely valuable even after we understand what

> it is and is not. More valuable, perhaps.

>

> Best wishes,

>

> Rob

>

>

> -

> "Alan Jacobs" <alanadamsjacobs

> <RamanaMaharshi>

> Wednesday, January 07, 2004 12:30 PM

> Re: [RamanaMaharshi] Talks

>

>

> > ---Dear Rob ,I agree that you are right to sound

> this warning note .We should as you suggest

> > never suspend our critical discrimination when

> confronted by the printed word .I feel however that

> > the essence of his Teaching is conveyed adequately

> by Talks , and that where a passage resonates

> > strongly for you, one should give it full

> attention .Thank you for bringing this question to

> our

> > notice .Renewed best wishes , Alan

> >

> >

> >

>

______________________

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> > your friends today! Download Messenger Now

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> RamanaMaharshi-

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> RamanaMaharshi

> > List owner:

> RamanaMaharshi-owner

> >

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> >

> http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi

> >

> >

> > Links

> >

> >

> > RamanaMaharshi/

> >

> >

> > RamanaMaharshi

> >

> > Your

> >

> >

> >

>

>

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...
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Dear Sri John,

 

>From the Introduction to "Talks" by Sadhu Arunachala

 

....Though the conversation was in various south Indian languages most of it was

recorded in English, the rest in Tamil and Telugu, which passages were

translated for the purpose of this book. ...

om gurave namaah

suri

John <bharani (AT) onetel (DOT) com> wrote:

Sri Munagala S Venkataramiah kept a record of the Master's words from 1935 —

1938.Does anyone know in which language the record was

kept?ThanksjohnSiva—SivaPost message:

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  • 1 year later...
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6th November, 1935

 

Talk 86.

 

The Master gave the true significance of the Christian faith

thus:

Christ is the ego.

The Cross is the body.

When the ego is crucified, and it perishes, what survives

is the Absolute Being (God), ( cf. "I and my Father are one" ) and

this glorious srvival is called Resurrection.

 

Talk 87.

 

Major A.W.Chadwick, an ardent English devotee, asked, "Why

did Jesus call out 'My God! My God!' while being crucified?"

Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.: It might have been an intercession

on behalf of the two thieves who were crucified with Him. Again a

'jnani' has attained liberation even while alive, here and now. It is

immaterial as to how, where and when he leaves his body. Some 'jnanis'

may appear to suffer, others may be in 'samadhi', still others may

disappear from sight before death. But that makes no differance to

their 'jnana'. Such suffering is apparent only to the onlooker and

not to the 'jnani', for he has already transcended the mistaken

identity of the Self with the body.

 

Talk 88.

 

The same gentleman asked.: What is the significance of Christ

in the illumination of St.Paul?

Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.: Illumination is absolute, not

associated with forms. After St.Paul becomes Self-conscious he

identified the illumination with Christ-consciousness.

D.: But Paul was not a lover of Christ then?

Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.: Love or hatred is immaterial. The

thought of Christ was there. It is similar to Ravana's case.

Christ-consciousness and Self-Realisation are all the same.

 

 

 

 

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