Guest guest Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Dear Christiane, Thank you for the beautiful sharing. I would like to put all the letters and tributes on the HS website. If others wish to write, they are most welcome. Love, Harsha christiane cameron wrote: > Dear Friends in Ramana, > > The Pope has left his body and the world (indeed the world not only > the catholic world) has lost a father and great soul. > > During his last days he reminded me a lot of our Ramana Bhagawan. The > courage he showed. The will to give Dharshan to devotees even though > his body was failing. Before his illness he was a very good looking > man with a beautiful voice (just like our Ramana Bhagawan). But not > only in death also in life there were some similarities. The Pope > spoke 5 languages, he had known hardships, he was a loving and kind > person, he was funny, witty with a quick tongue and had a heart for > the poor and downtrodden, he was not above to share food with a poor > african family or join in a dance or song. He was of sterling > character. He believed that the sign of a holy person and what should > be aspired for by believers is total dependance on God. He abhorred > fanaticism of any kind. He encouraged people to uphold their own > traditons. He said that there was a reason that God gave many > religions to the world and that all should be equally respected. He > had eight meetings with the Dalai Lama. He met with members of all > major religions. He invited their leaders to Assisi in Italy and > prayed with them. He always had an open ear, and he never tired. He > forgave the man who tried to kill him and even visited him in jail. He > worked relentlessly from dust to dawn. He was instrumental to the fall > of the Berlin wall. He was deeply spiritual, and this divine Bhakti > shone through his eyes and on his beautiful face. Children and animals > were naturally attracted to him. He loved to be out in nature and > especially in the mountains. Sometimes he slipped out of the Vatican > and drove to the closest mountain where he would skie for a couple of > hours much to the delight of people,who were very surprised to > recognize the Pope in the man with the black ski-suit, before he had > to rush back to Rome again. > > May he rest in peace. > > Om Arunachala Shiva > Christina > > P.S. When a person is one with God there is no way to hide it. It is > noticed by all who have the eyes to see because the Self shines on > their faces and through their eyes. Such a person can be the Pope, an > Indian lawyer, a french lady, a tamil school boy or a russian teacher. > That is unimportant. Their bodies have become mere instruments. Monsoonhouse Int. > Kovalam/Kerala > contact: christianecameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Dear Christiane, That was a nice tribute from you and I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments on devotion and about saints becoming just a vehicle for god. However, I must, in the interest of truth, disagree with the following statement that you make. >>He abhorred fanaticism of any kind. He encouraged people to uphold >>their own traditons. He said that there was a reason that God gave >>many religions to the world and that all should be equally >>respected. When the pope last visited Indian 1999, the pontiff reasserted the doctrine of conversion in words that upset a lot of tolerant Hindus, uncluding myself. The pope said, "Just as the first millennium saw the Cross firmly planted in the soil of Europe, and the second in that of America and Africa," he said, "so may the third Christian millennium witness a great harvest of faith on this vast and vital continent." Here are some more excerpts from that speech: "Asia is thirsting for the living water that Jesus alone can give." "If the Church in Asia is to fulfill its providential destiny, evangelization must be your absolute priority." "Christ is the one Mediator between God and man and the sole Redeemer of the world, to be clearly distinguished from the founders of other great religions." "The Bishops and participants bore witness to the character, spiritual fire and zeal which will assuredly make Asia the land of a bountiful harvest in the coming millennium." "The Church has the deepest respect for these traditions [in Asia] and seeks to engage in sincere dialogue with their followers. The religious values they teach await their fulfillment in Jesus Christ." "I [the pope] pray to the Lord to send many more committed laborers to reap the harvest of souls which I see as ready and plentiful [in Asia]." "The universal presence of the Holy Spirit cannot serve as an excuse for a failure to proclaim Jesus Christ explicitly as the one and only Saviour." "Some of the followers of the great religions of Asia have no problem in accepting Jesus as a manifestation of the Divine or the Absolute, or as an 'enlightened one'. But it is difficult for them to see Him as the only manifestation of the Divine". "Vatican II taught clearly that the entire Church is missionary, and that the work of evangelization is the duty of the whole People of God." "Jesus Christ [is] the fulfillment of the yearnings expressed in the mythologies and folklore of the Asian peoples." "The Synod therefore renewed the commitment of the Church in Asia to the task of improving both ecumenical relations and interreligious dialogue [as] essential to the Church's evangelizing mission on the continent." "From the Christian point of view, interreligious dialogue is more than a way of fostering mutual knowledge and enrichment; it is a part of the Church's evangelizing mission." "In many countries, Catholic schools play an important role in evangelization." And he said all this on Diwali, the biggest festival of the Hindus. The Time magazine called the pope's speech "appalling manners..".Is this not fanaticism? Where is the respect for other religions? Where is spirituality? The speech maybe sophisticated, but the basic message is: There is one true religion (ours); all others are false, lesser, incomplete; we are divinely ordered to convert non-Christians; etc., etc. Do you think our bhagavan would have said anything like this? In fact he used to criticize devotees who found fault with other gurus. Do you think that this is the right attitude to take? It is such attitude that leads to all the violence in the name of religion in this world. I know that I myself am going against bhagavan's example since, upon anybody's death, bhagavan would always talk glowingly in praise of the person's positive attributes and eschew any mention of negatives (I'll post an interesting story about this later). However, we probably wont discuss the pope on this list much and I thought I should take this opportunity. I apologize if I hurt any feelings but this is the plain truth. I also want to state that I have the deepest reverence for Jesus in the true Hindu tradition of revering all jnanis. regards Ram Lakhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Dear Sri Ram Lakhan, > I know that I myself am going against bhagavan's example since, upon > anybody's death, bhagavan would always talk glowingly in praise of the > person's positive attributes and eschew any mention of negatives (I'll > post an interesting story about this later). However, we probably wont > discuss the pope on this list much and I thought I should take this > opportunity. > > I apologize if I hurt any feelings but this is the plain truth. I also > want to state that I have the deepest reverence for Jesus in the true > Hindu tradition of revering all jnanis. Thank you for your sincerity. Now.. Let us close this message thread! Ever Yours in Sri Bhagavan, Miles 'The highest Truth... is realising that, 'there is neither destruction, nor production; neither one who is bound by the fetters of existence, nor one who has perfected release from them; indeed, there is neither a seeker after Liberation, nor one who is liberated.' (amrtabindu upanishad) Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Dear Ram, I don't really know what to say. You see, the truth is, I resigned from the Catholic Church in 1988 and became a practicing Hindu (I even have it on paper) before Bhagawan called me to Arunachala. I am aware that some Hindus do not respect this, once mleccha always mleccha. This is just to let you know a little of my background. All the tributes on the Pope agreed that he was a conservative as far as doctrine is concerned and at the same time deeply spiritual and loving as far as human beings are concerned. So he did have his two sides and especially in Germany has been criticized often as Gabriele knows all to well. Then again he stood up to the mighty of the world and treated people as equal. He did a lot for world peace and was in that sense a true Pontifex, a builder of bridges. Though not all followed his invitations to enter into dialogue. So I understand what you are saying, and I abhor the practice of soul fishing myself, but still he is what he is and when somebody is able to generate that much love and devotion across the world there must be the light of God shining through him. Because only that light is powerful enough to attract such response . When the Pope lay dying he was told that thousands of people where holding vigil outside his window and were praying, he tried to turn towards the window and raise his hand in blessing. When the prayer ended he died with the words "Amen" so be it on his lips. Its his demeanour and dignity that reminded me of our Bhagawan. One more thought on conversion and the speech you are referring to. I also do not like the sound of it, but isn't it also up to Hindus to do more to look after their low caste brothers and sisters, as they are the ones who are susceptible to conversions. Why should any Hindu feeling accepted in his community and temple would want to convert? But if you get the feeling that your are scum when you enter a temple or when you meet your Poojari you might become attracted to an all accepting saviour. Also I have found that the lower castes have a very limited knowledge on Hinduism and the Hindu scriptures. Most never read the Gita and they have never heard the word Vedanta, so instead of lamenting Hindus should do something. They could start by allowing reconversion for instance. Make the lower castes feel welcome and teach them Hinduism, then there will be no conversion. I have witnessed time and again converted Christians and Muslims coming to our local Hindu temple at festival time. Standing shy with the wish to belong shining through their eyes. Also the real threat to Hindus if you want to look at it that way comes from Islam and not from the Christians. If you ever travel the country with open eyes and see what is being done with Gulf money you shudder. For me our Bhagawan is the One without a Second, just to make this clear once again. Om Arunachala Shiva Christiane On Apr 3, 2005, at 19:35, hindu300 wrote: > > Dear Christiane, > > That was a nice tribute from you and I wholeheartedly agree with your > sentiments on devotion and about saints becoming just a vehicle for > god. However, I must, in the interest of truth, disagree with the > following statement that you make. > > >>He abhorred fanaticism of any kind. He encouraged people to uphold > >>their own traditons. He said that there was a reason that God gave > >>many religions to the world and that all should be equally > >>respected. > > When the pope last visited Indian 1999, the pontiff reasserted the > doctrine of conversion in words that upset a lot of tolerant Hindus, > uncluding myself. The pope said, "Just as the first millennium saw the > Cross firmly planted in the soil of Europe, and the second in that of > America and Africa," he said, "so may the third Christian millennium > witness a great harvest of faith on this vast and vital continent." > Here are some more excerpts from that speech: > > "Asia is thirsting for the living water that Jesus alone can give." > > "If the Church in Asia is to fulfill its providential destiny, > evangelization must be your absolute priority." > > "Christ is the one Mediator between God and man and the sole Redeemer > of the world, to be clearly distinguished from the founders of other > great religions." > > "The Bishops and participants bore witness to the character, spiritual > fire and zeal which will assuredly make Asia the land of a bountiful > harvest in the coming millennium." > > "The Church has the deepest respect for these traditions [in Asia] and > seeks to engage in sincere dialogue with their followers. The > religious values they teach await their fulfillment in Jesus Christ." > > "I [the pope] pray to the Lord to send many more committed laborers to > reap the harvest of souls which I see as ready and plentiful [in > Asia]." > > "The universal presence of the Holy Spirit cannot serve as an excuse > for a failure to proclaim Jesus Christ explicitly as the one and only > Saviour." > > "Some of the followers of the great religions of Asia have no problem > in accepting Jesus as a manifestation of the Divine or the Absolute, > or as an 'enlightened one'. But it is difficult for them to see Him as > the only manifestation of the Divine". > > "Vatican II taught clearly that the entire Church is missionary, and > that the work of evangelization is the duty of the whole People of > God." > > "Jesus Christ [is] the fulfillment of the yearnings expressed in the > mythologies and folklore of the Asian peoples." > > "The Synod therefore renewed the commitment of the Church in Asia to > the task of improving both ecumenical relations and interreligious > dialogue [as] essential to the Church's evangelizing mission on the > continent." > > "From the Christian point of view, interreligious dialogue is more > than a way of fostering mutual knowledge and enrichment; it is a part > of the Church's evangelizing mission." > > "In many countries, Catholic schools play an important role in > evangelization." > > And he said all this on Diwali, the biggest festival of the Hindus. > The Time magazine called the pope's speech "appalling manners..".Is > this not fanaticism? Where is the respect for other religions? Where > is spirituality? The speech maybe sophisticated, but the basic message > is: There is one true religion (ours); all others are false, lesser, > incomplete; we are divinely ordered to convert non-Christians; etc., > etc. > > Do you think our bhagavan would have said anything like this? In fact > he used to criticize devotees who found fault with other gurus. Do you > think that this is the right attitude to take? It is such attitude > that leads to all the violence in the name of religion in this world. > > I know that I myself am going against bhagavan's example since, upon > anybody's death, bhagavan would always talk glowingly in praise of the > person's positive attributes and eschew any mention of negatives (I'll > post an interesting story about this later). However, we probably wont > discuss the pope on this list much and I thought I should take this > opportunity. > > I apologize if I hurt any feelings but this is the plain truth. I also > want to state that I have the deepest reverence for Jesus in the true > Hindu tradition of revering all jnanis. > > regards > > Ram Lakhan > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Children International > > Would you give Hope to a Child in need? > > > <332170_011805_newchildforemail.jpg> > > · > Click Here to meet a Girl > And Give Her Hope > > · > Click Here to meet a Boy > And Change His Life > > Learn More > > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > RamanaMaharshi/ > > • > RamanaMaharshi > > • Terms of > Service. > > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaaya Thank you, Christiane: The List owner has requested that this thread be finished, so let's do that now, please. anbudan, John Siva--Siva RamanaMaharshi, christiane cameron <christianecameron@m...> wrote: ......> Dear Ram, > > I don't really know what to say. You see, the truth is, I resigned from > the Catholic Church in 1988 and became a practicing Hindu (I even have > it on paper) before Bhagawan called me to Arunachala...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 My deepest apologies to the list owner. I didn't realize his wish. Om Arunachala Shiva Chris On Apr 4, 2005, at 07:21, John wrote: > > Om Namo Bhagavathe Sri Ramanaaya > Thank you, Christiane: > The List owner has requested that this thread > be finished, so let's do that now, please. > anbudan, > John > Siva--Siva > > RamanaMaharshi, christiane cameron > <christianecameron@m...> wrote: > .....> Dear Ram, > > > > I don't really know what to say. You see, the truth is, I resigned > from > > the Catholic Church in 1988 and became a practicing Hindu (I even > have > > it on paper) before Bhagawan called me to Arunachala...... > > > > > > > Post message: RamanaMaharshi > Subscribe: RamanaMaharshi- > Un: RamanaMaharshi > List owner: RamanaMaharshi-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www./community/RamanaMaharshi > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Children International > > Would you give Hope to a Child in need? > > > <332170_011805_newchildforemail.jpg> > > · > Click Here to meet a Girl > And Give Her Hope > > · > Click Here to meet a Boy > And Change His Life > > Learn More > > <l.gif> > > Links > > • > RamanaMaharshi/ > > • > RamanaMaharshi > > • Terms of > Service. > > Monsoonhouse Int. Kovalam/Kerala contact: christianecameron Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 MODERATOR'S NOTICE: This post has been edited for its excessive length. Furthermore, our List Owner has requested that the thread be closed, and closed it shall be. Christiane has already aplogized for any distress which may have been caused, and members shall respect and not pursuer this further. There are plenty of lists where the topic may be pursued, but that place is not here. Thank you for your understanding in this matter. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Dear Christiane, I am still not sure why others call me a Hindu. I am sure my folks call it Sanatana Dharma, the ancient religion. It is now accepted that this religion or way of life existed long before Christ. .........> > > > > > > Monsoonhouse Int. > Kovalam/Kerala > contact: christianecameron@m... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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