[MillionPaths] Be As You Are - Life in the world, (9)

May 2, 2005

Thank you for posting this, Harsha. Here is a question.

> A: You are always pure. It is your senses and body which tempt you

> and which you confuse with your real Self. So first know who is

> tempted and who is there to tempt. But even if you do commit adultery,

> do not think about it afterwards, because you are yourself always

> pure. You are not the sinner.

>

Can you contextualize this advice for me? When I read this, my mind

moves forward: the man commits adultery. Let us suppose the woman gets

pregnant. The man is advised not to think about his act afterward.

Who cares for the woman and child? How can we understand the advice of

Maharshi to be loving and compassionate of human life in this

situation? Was his advice delivered in a social context in which it

could be understood that all persons involved (woman, baby, man,

extended families) were being reminded to always remember the Self

because it could be assumed that in the relative realm everyone would

still follow up the outcome of the adultery responsibly and

lovingly--that is, providing for the child, not socially punishing the

woman, etc.?

Jill

On May 1, 2005, at 10:48 PM, Harsha wrote:

> Thanks Vicki for these gems! I will pass it on to HS. Please feel

> free to post there. I love reading Bhagavan's dialogues with devotees.

> Do you know that Talks will now be available as a pdf file?

>

> Harsha

>

> viorica weissman wrote:

>

> Q: Do you approve of sexual continence?

> A: A true brahmachari [celibate] is one who dwells in Brahman. Then

> there is no question of desires any more.

>

> Q: At Sri Aurobindo's ashram there is a rigid rule that married

> couples are permitted to live there on condition that they have no

> sexual intercourse.

>

> A: What is the use of that ? If it exists in the mind, what use is it

> to force people to abstain ?

> Q: Is marriage a bar to spiritual progress?

>

> A: The householder's life is not a bar, but the householder must do

> his utmost to practise self-control. If a man has a strong desire for

> the higher life then the sex tendency will subside. When the mind is

> destroyed, the other desires are destroyed also.

>

> Q: I have committed sexual sin.

>

> A: Even if you have, it does not matter so long as you do not think

> afterwards that you have done so. The Self is not aware of any sin and

> renunciation of sex is internal, not merely of the body alone.

>

> Q: I am carried away by the sight of the breasts of a young woman

> neighbor and I am often tempted to commit adultery with her. What

> should I do?

>

> A: You are always pure. It is your senses and body which tempt you

> and which you confuse with your real Self. So first know who is

> tempted and who is there to tempt. But even if you do commit adultery,

> do not think about it afterwards, because you are yourself always

> pure. You are not the sinner.

>

> Q: How do we root out our sex idea?

>

> A: By rooting out the false idea of the body being the Self. There is

> no sex in the Self. Be the Self and then you will have no sex

> troubles.

>

> Q: Can fasting cure sexual desire?

>

> A: Yes, but it is temporary. Mental fast is the real aid. Fasting is

> not an end in itself. There must be spiritual development side by

> side. Complete fasting makes the mind too weak. The spiritual quest

> must be kept up right through a fast if it is to benefit spiritually.

>

> Be As You Are, The Teaching of Sri Ramana Maharshi

> edited bty David Godman

/join

>

> "Love itself is the actual form of God."

>

> Sri Ramana

>

> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

>

> Links

>

> •

> /

>

> •

>

> • Terms of

> Service.

>

Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]

May 2, 2005

Good question Jill! if two people have a child, both should obviously

lovingly take care of it without thinking of themselves as sinners. Too

bad that Buddha ran away though and left his wife and child to go

meditate. That has bothered a lot of people throughout the ages.

Buddha's leaving his wife and child seems wrong, does it not? Does any

Buddhist wish to defend Buddha, please feel free.

There are different schools of thought on the nature of sin in the

spiritual traditions and it is a complex topic. Bhagavan always said

that, "Nonviolence is the first principle". That is also the first

axiom of yoga. So if one is immersed in the feeling of nonviolence and

amity, then actions will be guided by it.

What do you all think?

Love to all

Harsha

Jill Eggers wrote:

Thank you for posting this, Harsha. Here is a question.

A: You are always

pure. It is your senses and body which tempt you and which you confuse

with your real Self. So first know who is tempted and who is there to

tempt. But even if you do commit adultery, do not think about it

afterwards, because you are yourself always pure. You are not the

sinner.

Can you contextualize this advice for me? When I read this, my mind

moves forward: the man commits adultery. Let us suppose the woman

gets pregnant. The man is advised not to think about his act

afterward. Who cares for the woman and child? How can we understand

the advice of Maharshi to be loving and compassionate of human life in

this situation? Was his advice delivered in a social context in which

it could be understood that all persons involved (woman, baby, man,

extended families) were being reminded to always remember the Self

because it could be assumed that in the relative realm everyone would

still follow up the outcome of the adultery responsibly and

lovingly--that is, providing for the child, not socially punishing the

woman, etc.?

Jill

On May 1, 2005, at 10:48 PM, Harsha wrote:

Thanks Vicki for these gems! I will pass it on to HS.

Please

feel free to post there. I love reading Bhagavan's dialogues with

devotees. Do you know that Talks will now be available as a pdf file?

Harsha

viorica weissman wrote:

Q: Do you approve of sexual

continence?

A: A true brahmachari

[celibate] is one who dwells in Brahman. Then there is no question of

desires any more.

Q: At Sri Aurobindo's ashram

there is a rigid rule that married couples are permitted to live there

on condition that they have no sexual intercourse.

A: What is the use of that ?

If it exists in the mind, what use is it to force people to abstain ?

Q: Is marriage a bar to

spiritual progress?

A: The householder's life is

not a bar, but the householder must do his utmost to practise

self-control. If a man has a strong desire for the higher life then

the sex tendency will subside. When the mind is destroyed, the other

desires are destroyed also.

Q: I have committed sexual

sin.

A: Even if you have, it does

not matter so long as you do not think afterwards that you have done

so. The Self is not aware of any sin and renunciation of sex is

internal, not merely of the body alone.

Q: I am carried away by the

sight of the breasts of a young woman neighbor and I am often tempted

to commit adultery with her. What should I do?

A: You are always pure. It

is your senses and body which tempt you and which you confuse with

your real Self. So first know who is tempted and who is there to

tempt. But even if you do commit adultery, do not think about it

afterwards, because you are yourself always pure. You are not the

sinner.

Q: How do we root out our

sex idea?

A: By rooting out the false

idea of the body being the Self. There is no sex in the Self. Be the

Self and then you will have no sex troubles.

Q: Can fasting cure sexual

desire?

A: Yes, but it is temporary.

Mental fast is the real aid. Fasting is not an end in itself. There

must be spiritual development side by side. Complete fasting makes the

mind too weak. The spiritual quest must be kept up right through a

fast if it is to benefit spiritually.

Be As You Are, The

Teaching of Sri Ramana Maharshi

edited bty

David Godman

May 2, 2005

Hello Harsha,

Let's ask this question: If Buddha had been 'enlightened' while he

was a 'householder' there would have been no need to leave, would

there have been.

And that's the case, in any case, we do what we do until we "Know" better.

Who knows, what One Knows and how One Knowingly lives is another topic.

Blessings,

Anna

-

Harsha

Monday, May 02, 2005 8:33 AM

Re: Re: [MillionPaths] Be As

You Are - Life in the world, (9)

Good question Jill! if two people have a child, both should obviously

lovingly take care of it without thinking of themselves as sinners.

Too bad that Buddha ran away though and left his wife and child to go

meditate. That has bothered a lot of people throughout the ages.

Buddha's leaving his wife and child seems wrong, does it not? Does

any Buddhist wish to defend Buddha, please feel free. There are

different schools of thought on the nature of sin in the spiritual

traditions and it is a complex topic. Bhagavan always said that,

"Nonviolence is the first principle". That is also the first axiom of

yoga. So if one is immersed in the feeling of nonviolence and amity,

then actions will be guided by it. What do you all think?Love to

allHarshaJill Eggers wrote: Thank you for posting this, Harsha. Here

is a question.

A: You are always pure. It is your senses and body which tempt you and

which you confuse with your real Self. So first know who is tempted

and who is there to tempt. But even if you do commit adultery, do not

think about it afterwards, because you are yourself always pure. You

are not the sinner. Can you contextualize this advice for me? When I

read this, my mind moves forward: the man commits adultery. Let us

suppose the woman gets pregnant. The man is advised not to think

about his act afterward. Who cares for the woman and child? How can

we understand the advice of Maharshi to be loving and compassionate

of human life in this situation? Was his advice delivered in a social

context in which it could be understood that all persons involved

(woman, baby, man, extended families) were being reminded to always

remember the Self because it could be assumed that in the relative

realm everyone would still follow up the outcome of the adultery

responsibly and lovingly--that is, providing for the child, not

socially punishing the woman, etc.? Jill On May 1, 2005, at 10:48 PM,

Harsha wrote:

Thanks Vicki for these gems! I will pass it on to HS. Please feel free

to post there. I love reading Bhagavan's dialogues with devotees. Do

you know that Talks will now be available as a pdf file? Harsha

viorica weissman wrote: Q: Do you approve of sexual continence? A:

A true brahmachari [celibate] is one who dwells in Brahman. Then

there is no question of desires any more. Q: At Sri Aurobindo's

ashram there is a rigid rule that married couples are permitted to

live there on condition that they have no sexual intercourse. A: What

is the use of that ? If it exists in the mind, what use is it to force

people to abstain ? Q: Is marriage a bar to spiritual progress? A: The

householder's life is not a bar, but the householder must do his

utmost to practise self-control. If a man has a strong desire for the

higher life then the sex tendency will subside. When the mind is

destroyed, the other desires are destroyed also. Q: I have committed

sexual sin. A: Even if you have, it does not matter so long as you do

not think afterwards that you have done so. The Self is not aware of

any sin and renunciation of sex is internal, not merely of the body

alone. Q: I am carried away by the sight of the breasts of a young

woman neighbor and I am often tempted to commit adultery with her.

What should I do? A: You are always pure. It is your senses and body

which tempt you and which you confuse with your real Self. So first

know who is tempted and who is there to tempt. But even if you do

commit adultery, do not think about it afterwards, because you are

yourself always pure. You are not the sinner. Q: How do we root out

our sex idea? A: By rooting out the false idea of the body being the

Self. There is no sex in the Self. Be the Self and then you will have

no sex troubles. Q: Can fasting cure sexual desire? A: Yes, but it is

temporary. Mental fast is the real aid. Fasting is not an end in

itself. There must be spiritual development side by side. Complete

fasting makes the mind too weak. The spiritual quest must be kept up

right through a fast if it is to benefit spiritually. Be As You

Are, The Teaching of Sri Ramana Maharshi edited bty David Godman

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

May 3, 2005

To me it seems self evident, and there is no need to defend the Buddha:

What Buddha was able to give to his family (and to the world)

when he came back was much more than what he could give

while living with them.

When he was asked by his wife whether his leaving was needed for his

realisation to happen, he answered no.

And yet we know that this is just the view of an enlightened being

after his enlightenment, then time is not binding any more

and cause and effect do not apply.

Paradoxically before his enlightenement, that happened in no time,

his going away from the family was needed for the enlightenment to happen

even if there is no relation of cause and effect between the two:

truth is paradoxical and we cannot apply the logical linear mind to it.

I am not a Buddhist

just myself

marifa

-

Harsha

Monday, May 02, 2005 2:33 PM