RE: did we understand it and do we follow this example?

[Guest guest]

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Hi Michael Bindel. It has been a

long time.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This wonderful story seems to teach at

least two valuable lessons. The first lesson, the lesson of humility, seems

obvious; but there is at least one other major point that can be gleaned from this

story. Ramana granted the man upadesa. He pointed out a method for

this man.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">There are those who say that there is

nothing to be gained. Ramana has alluded to this himself. If there

is nothing to be gained or realized anew, then why practice? Yet from

time to time Ramana would teach various methods to certain individuals.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This seems to indicate that there are

various truths which can be known and experienced and that even when these

truths seem contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to accept or

we simply can’t understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE - the

SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where various truths

are valid at the same time.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This is difficult for people. They

can see their own point of view; but they cannot conceive of how their view can

be reconciled with others. Discussions or arguments arise. But

words are a limited medium of expression, and the more they are used, the more

we may fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of thought;

but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the Unknowable.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">michael

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

[] On

Behalf Of michael bindel

Saturday, June 04, 2005 6:30

PM

To:

; millionpaths;

namoramana;

[ - Ramana

Guru] did we understand it and do we follow this example?

12.0pt">

color:#006600">THE MAHARSHI

7.5pt">

color:#006600">

"Arial Unicode MS";color:black">

color:#006600">March/April 2002

Vol. 12 - No. 2

Verdana;color:#006600">

color:black">

color:#006600">Produced & Edited by

Dennis Hartel

Dr. Anil K. Sharma

color:#666666">

color:#666666;font-style:italic">

color:#666666;font-style:italic">

color:#666666;font-style:italic">Pundit and Peasant

font-family:Arial">Once during a visit to the Ashram in the 1940s I was sitting

outside the Old Hall with many devotees, facing Sri Bhagavan who was reclining

on a couch. A group of learned pundits were discussing certain passages from

the Upanishads with great enthusiasm and profundity.

font-family:Arial">All, including Bhagavan, appeared to be attentively

listening to this interesting discussion when, all of a sudden, Bhagavan rose

from his couch, walked thirty meters to the north, and stood before a villager

who was standing there looking lowly with palms joined.

font-family:Arial">Immediately the discussion stopped and all eyes were turned

to Bhagavan and the villager standing at a distance.

font-family:Arial">They appeared to be conversing, but at such a distance no

one could tell about what. Soon Bhagavan returned to his couch and the

discussion resumed.

font-family:Arial">I was curious about this villager and why Bhagavan had gone

out of his way to meet him.

font-family:Arial">So, while the discussion continued I slipped away and caught

up with him before he left the Ashram. I asked the villager what he and Bhagavan

had talked about. He said that Bhagavan had asked him why he was standing there

so far away. "I told Bhagavan, 'I am only an ignorant, poor villager. How

am I to approach you who are God incarnate?'"

font-family:Arial">"What did the Maharshi say then?" I asked.

font-family:Arial">"He asked me my name, what village I was from, what

work I did and how many children I had, etc."

font-family:Arial">"Did you ask Him anything?"

font-family:Arial">"I asked Him how I could be saved and how I could earn

His blessings."

font-family:Arial">"What did He tell you?"

font-family:Arial">"He asked me if there was a temple in my village. I

told him there was. He wanted to know the name of the deity of that temple. I

told Him the name. He then said that I should go on repeating the name of that

deity and I would receive all the blessings needed."

font-family:Arial">I came back to Bhagavan's presence and sat among the

devotees listening to the learned discussion, in which I had now lost all

interest, realizing that the simple humility and devotion of this peasant had

evoked a far greater response from our Master than any amount of learning. I then

decided that, though a scholar by profession, I should always remain a humble,

ignorant peasant at heart, and pray, like that villager, for Bhagavan's grace

and blessings.

- Professor

K. Swaminathan

font-family:Arial">

12.0pt">Discover

Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check

it out!

/join

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

[Guest guest]

Thanks Michael Bowes for the comments and

thanks to Michael Bindel for that beautiful story of Sri Ramana giving

spiritual advice to the peasant. I like what Michael Bowes stated, "

"This is difficult for people. They

can see their own point of view; but they cannot conceive of how their

view can

be reconciled with others. Discussions or arguments arise. But

words are a limited medium of expression, and the more they are used,

the more

we may fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought;

but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable."

 

Self is both personal and impersonal. To

say it is one or other is to simply impose a mental limitation on our

true nature. Mind sees in terms of either this or that. Self transcends

the mind and therefore is simultaneously this and that. All this is

That, says Advaita.

Self is fully impersonal because it is independent of all objects of

perception, including the mind which is an instrument for perception.

Self is the light that makes all perception and experience possible.

Self is also fully personal because it is one's own Self. We can say,

One's Own Self because there is no other. It is One without a second.

One does not possess the Self but realizes One Is the Self. Seeing and

Being have no separation for the Self. When asked about whether the

Self is personal or impersonal, Sri Ramana once said that Self is

always the First Person. In fact, what could be more personal than

one's own Self? asked the sage.

The words are meant for us to understand our own reality. But we need

not take them so seriously that they obscure the Truth of our nature

which is completely beyond words and concepts.

Christiane

has been posting from Ashtavakra Gita.

14.

Wonderful am I ! Adoration to myself who have nothing or have all

that is thought and spoken of.

 

Love to all

Harsha

Michael Bowes wrote:

There are

those who say that there is

nothing to be gained. Ramana has alluded to this himself. If there

is nothing to be gained or realized anew, then why practice? Yet from

time to time Ramana would teach various methods to certain

individuals.

 

This seems

to indicate that there are

various truths which can be known and experienced and that even when

these

truths seem contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to

accept or

we simply can’t understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE - the

SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where various

truths

are valid at the same time.

 

This is

difficult for people. They

can see their own point of view; but they cannot conceive of how their

view can

be reconciled with others. Discussions or arguments arise. But

words are a limited medium of expression, and the more they are used,

the more

we may fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought;

but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the Unknowable.

 

michael

[Guest guest]

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">OM TAT SAT

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

 

color:windowtext">

[] On

Behalf Of Harsha

Sunday, June 05, 2005 4:02

PM

Re: [ -

Ramana Guru] did we understand it and do we follow this example?

Thanks Michael Bowes for the comments and thanks to Michael

Bindel for that beautiful story of Sri Ramana giving spiritual advice to the

peasant. I like what Michael Bowes

stated, "

Arial;color:#CC0000;font-weight:bold">"This is difficult for people.

They can see their own point of view; but they cannot conceive of how their

view can be reconciled with others. Discussions or arguments arise.

But words are a limited medium of expression, and the more they are used, the

more we may fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable."

color:blue">

Self is both personal

and impersonal. To say it is one or other is to simply impose a mental

limitation on our true nature. Mind sees in terms of either this or that. Self

transcends the mind and therefore is simultaneously this and that. All this is

That, says Advaita.

Self is fully impersonal because it is independent of all objects of

perception, including the mind which is an instrument for perception. Self is

the light that makes all perception and experience possible.

Self is also fully personal because it is one's own Self. We can say, One's Own

Self because there is no other. It is One without a second. One does not

possess the Self but realizes One Is the Self. Seeing and Being have no

separation for the Self. When asked about whether the Self is personal or

impersonal, Sri Ramana once said that Self is always the First Person. In fact,

what could be more personal than one's own Self? asked the sage.

The words are meant for us to understand our own reality. But we need not take

them so seriously that they obscure the Truth of our nature which is completely

beyond words and concepts.

bold">Christiane has been posting from Ashtavakra Gita.

font-weight:bold">

bold">

bold">14. Wonderful am I ! Adoration to myself who have nothing or have all

that is thought and spoken of.

color:blue;font-weight:bold">

Love to all

Harsha

color:#000099;font-weight:bold">

Michael Bowes wrote:

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

There are those who say

that there is nothing to be gained. Ramana has alluded to this

himself. If there is nothing to be gained or realized anew, then why

practice? Yet from time to time Ramana would teach various methods to

certain individuals.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This seems to indicate that there are

various truths which can be known and experienced and that even when these

truths seem contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to accept or

we simply can’t understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE - the

SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where various truths

are valid at the same time.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This is difficult for people. They

can see their own point of view; but they cannot conceive of how their view can

be reconciled with others. Discussions or arguments arise. But

words are a limited medium of expression, and the more they are used, the more

we may fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">michael

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

/join

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

[Guest guest]

and thank you, harshaji...

 

 

, Harsha wrote:

> *Thanks Michael Bowes for the comments and thanks to Michael Bindel

for

> that beautiful story of Sri Ramana giving spiritual advice to the

> peasant. I like what Michael Bowes stated, "*

>

> *"This is difficult for people. They can see their own point of

view;

> but they cannot conceive of how their view can be reconciled with

> others. Discussions or arguments arise. But words are a limited

medium

> of expression, and the more they are used, the more we may fail to

> understand. For understanding never arises because of thought; but

it

> eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the Unknowable."*

>

>

>

> *Self is both personal and impersonal. To say it is one or other is

to

> simply impose a mental limitation on our true nature. Mind sees in

terms

> of either this or that. Self transcends the mind and therefore is

> simultaneously this and that. All this is That, says Advaita.

>

> Self is fully impersonal because it is independent of all objects

of

> perception, including the mind which is an instrument for

perception.

> Self is the light that makes all perception and experience possible.

>

> Self is also fully personal because it is one's own Self. We can

say,

> One's Own Self because there is no other. It is One without a

second.

> One does not possess the Self but realizes One Is the Self. Seeing

and

> Being have no separation for the Self. When asked about whether the

Self

> is personal or impersonal, Sri Ramana once said that Self is always

the

> First Person. In fact, what could be more personal than one's own

Self?

> asked the sage.

>

> The words are meant for us to understand our own reality. But we

need

> not take them so seriously that they obscure the Truth of our

nature

> which is completely beyond words and concepts.

>

> **Christiane has been posting from Ashtavakra Gita.

>

> 14. Wonderful am I ! Adoration to myself who have nothing or have

all

> that is thought and spoken of.*

>

> *

> Love to all

> Harsha

> *

>

>

> *

>

> *

> Michael Bowes wrote:

>

> > There are those who say that there is nothing to be gained.

Ramana

> > has alluded to this himself. If there is nothing to be gained or

> > realized anew, then why practice? Yet from time to time Ramana

would

> > teach various methods to certain individuals.

> >

> >

> >

> > This seems to indicate that there are various truths which can be

> > known and experienced and that even when these truths seem

> > contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to accept

or we

> > simply can't understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE -

the

> > SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where

various

> > truths are valid at the same time.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is difficult for people. They can see their own point of

view;

> > but they cannot conceive of how their view can be reconciled with

> > others. Discussions or arguments arise. But words are a limited

> > medium of expression, and the more they are used, the more we may

fail

> > to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but

> > it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable.

> >

> >

> >

> > michael

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

-

Michael Bowes

Sunday, June 05, 2005 7:11 PM

RE: did we understand it and do we follow this example?

OM TAT SAT

[] On Behalf Of HarshaSent:

Sunday, June 05, 2005 4:02 PMTo:

Subject: Re: [ - Ramana

Guru] did we understand it and do we follow this example?

Thanks Michael Bowes for the comments and thanks to Michael Bindel for

that beautiful story of Sri Ramana giving spiritual advice to the

peasant. I like what Michael Bowes stated, ""This is difficult for

people. They can see their own point of view; but they cannot

conceive of how their view can be reconciled with others.

Discussions or arguments arise. But words are a limited medium of

expression, and the more they are used, the more we may fail to

understand. For understanding never arises because of thought; but

it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the Unknowable."

 

Self is both personal and impersonal. To say it is one or other is to

simply impose a mental limitation on our true nature. Mind sees in

terms of either this or that. Self transcends the mind and therefore

is simultaneously this and that. All this is That, says Advaita. Self

is fully impersonal because it is independent of all objects of

perception, including the mind which is an instrument for perception.

Self is the light that makes all perception and experience possible.

Self is also fully personal because it is one's own Self. We can say,

One's Own Self because there is no other. It is One without a second.

One does not possess the Self but realizes One Is the Self. Seeing

and Being have no separation for the Self. When asked about whether

the Self is personal or impersonal, Sri Ramana once said that Self is

always the First Person. In fact, what could be more personal than

one's own Self? asked the sage.The words are meant for us to

understand our own reality. But we need not take them so seriously

that they obscure the Truth of our nature which is completely beyond

words and concepts. Christiane has been posting from Ashtavakra Gita.

14. Wonderful am I ! Adoration to myself who have nothing or have all

that is thought and spoken of.

Love to allHarsha

Michael Bowes wrote:

There are those who say that there is nothing to be gained. Ramana

has alluded to this himself. If there is nothing to be gained or

realized anew, then why practice? Yet from time to time Ramana would

teach various methods to certain individuals.

This seems to indicate that there are various truths which can be

known and experienced and that even when these truths seem

contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to accept or we

simply can’t understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE - the

SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where

various truths are valid at the same time.

This is difficult for people. They can see their own point of view;

but they cannot conceive of how their view can be reconciled with

others. Discussions or arguments arise. But words are a limited

medium of expression, and the more they are used, the more we may

fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable.

michael

Anna:

Who "Understands"? Acceptance and

surrender are just words/images in the mind.

Who "Understands"? When that is Known concepts such as acceptance and

surrender and unknowable, are seen for what they are. Nothing. Even

"Known" means nothing.

Do you know "Who" Michael is?

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

[Guest guest]

margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">SNIP

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Anna:

 

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">snip

 

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Do you know "Who" Michael is?

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Dear Anna,

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Absolutely

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">michael

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

[Guest guest]

-

Anna Ruiz

Monday, June 06, 2005 1:29 AM

Re: did we understand it and do we follow this example?

Anna:

Who "Understands"? Acceptance and

surrender are just words/images in the mind.

Who "Understands"? When that is Known concepts such as acceptance and

surrender and unknowable, are seen for what they are. Nothing. Even

"Known" means nothing.

Do you know "Who" Michael is?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

i do not know myself. i am myself.

yosy

[Guest guest]

-

yosyflug

Sunday, June 05, 2005 9:00 PM

Re: did we understand it and do we follow this example?

-

Anna Ruiz

Monday, June 06, 2005 1:29 AM

Re: did we understand it and do we follow this example?

Anna:

Who "Understands"? Acceptance and

surrender are just words/images in the mind.

Who "Understands"? When that is Known concepts such as acceptance and

surrender and unknowable, are seen for what they are. Nothing. Even

"Known" means nothing.

Do you know "Who" Michael is?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

i do not know myself. i am myself.

yosy

Yes,

And So It is Known. "You" are Known.

Yosy-Love is Known

;- )/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

[Guest guest]

is it really so "difficult"?

yes: for whom?

due to michael bindels personal and long ongoing experience

its only difficult because

of the sense of personality the EGO

the Mind

letting go all this means

SURRENDERING

all obstacles in daily life are terrible but welcome lessons of GD for

those who really want to SURRENDER

to give up EGO to let go everything without expecting anything

terrible but healing!

a n d to know for sure without any doubt that this lessons are not

PUNISHMENT AT ALL

in love in GD

michael the foolAnna Ruiz <nli10u (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:

-

Michael Bowes

Sunday, June 05, 2005 7:11 PM

RE: did we understand it and do we follow this example?

OM TAT SAT

[] On Behalf Of HarshaSent:

Sunday, June 05, 2005 4:02 PMTo:

Subject: Re: [ - Ramana

Guru] did we understand it and do we follow this example?

Thanks Michael Bowes for the comments and thanks to Michael Bindel for

that beautiful story of Sri Ramana giving spiritual advice to the

peasant. I like what Michael Bowes stated, ""This is difficult for

people. They can see their own point of view; but they cannot

conceive of how their view can be reconciled with others.

Discussions or arguments arise. But words are a limited medium of

expression, and the more they are used, the more we may fail to

understand. For understanding never arises because of thought; but it

eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the Unknowable."

Self is both personal and impersonal. To say it is one or other is to

simply impose a mental limitation on our true nature. Mind sees in

terms of either this or that. Self transcends the mind and therefore

is simultaneously this and that. All this is That, says Advaita. Self

is fully impersonal because it is independent of all objects of

perception, including the mind which is an instrument for perception.

Self is the light that makes all perception and experience possible.

Self is also fully personal because it is one's own Self. We can say,

One's Own Self because there is no other. It is One without a second.

One does not possess the Self but realizes One Is the Self. Seeing

and Being have no separation for the Self. When asked about whether

the Self is personal or impersonal, Sri Ramana once said that Self is

always the First

Person. In fact, what could be more personal than one's own Self?

asked the sage.The words are meant for us to understand our own

reality. But we need not take them so seriously that they obscure the

Truth of our nature which is completely beyond words and concepts.

Christiane has been posting from Ashtavakra Gita. 14. Wonderful am I

! Adoration to

myself who have nothing or have all that is thought and spoken of.

Love to allHarsha

Michael Bowes wrote:

There are those who say that there is nothing to be gained. Ramana

has alluded to this himself. If there is nothing to be gained or

realized anew, then why practice? Yet from time to time Ramana would

teach various methods to certain individuals.

This seems to indicate that there are various truths which can be

known and experienced and that even when these truths seem

contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to accept or we

simply can’t understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE - the

SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where

various truths are valid at the same time.

This is difficult for people. They can see their own point of view;

but they cannot conceive of how their view can be reconciled with

others. Discussions or arguments arise. But words are a limited

medium of expression, and the more they are used, the more we may

fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable.

michael

Anna:

Who "Understands"? Acceptance and

surrender are just words/images in the mind.

Who "Understands"? When that is Known concepts such as acceptance and

surrender and unknowable, are seen for what they are. Nothing. Even

"Known" means nothing.

Do you know "Who" Michael is?

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

10pt">/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

Discover Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM &; more. Check it out!

[Guest guest]

Dear Michael Bowes

sorry for this late answer.......

thank you for the joy michael experienced while reading your wonderful mail.

For understanding never arises because of thought; but it eventually

comes from acceptance and surrender to the Unknowable.

and this dear unknown friend is the truth michael feels to be authentic

it is authentic

so michael has the inner urge to live up to it

fullpoint

in love in GD

michael bindel

Michael Bowes <michaelbowes (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:

Hi Michael Bindel. It has been a long time.

This wonderful story seems to teach at least two valuable lessons.

The first lesson, the lesson of humility, seems obvious; but there is

at least one other major point that can be gleaned from this story.

Ramana granted the man upadesa. He pointed out a method for this

man.

There are those who say that there is nothing to be gained. Ramana

has alluded to this himself. If there is nothing to be gained or

realized anew, then why practice? Yet from time to time Ramana would

teach various methods to certain individuals.

This seems to indicate that there are various truths which can be

known and experienced and that even when these truths seem

contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to accept or we

simply can’t understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE - the

SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where

various truths are valid at the same time.

This is difficult for people. They can see their own point of view;

but they cannot conceive of how their view can be reconciled with

others. Discussions or arguments arise. But words are a limited

medium of expression, and the more they are used, the more we may

fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable.

michael

[] On Behalf Of michael

bindelSaturday, June 04, 2005 6:30 PMTo:

; millionpaths;

namoramana; Subject:

did we understand it and do we follow

this example?

THE MAHARSHI

March/April 2002Vol. 12 - No. 2

Produced & Edited byDennis HartelDr. Anil K. Sharma

Pundit and Peasant

Once during a visit to the Ashram in the 1940s I was sitting outside

the Old Hall with many devotees, facing Sri Bhagavan who was

reclining on a couch. A group of learned pundits were discussing

certain passages from the Upanishads with great enthusiasm and

profundity.

All, including Bhagavan, appeared to be attentively listening to this

interesting discussion when, all of a sudden, Bhagavan rose from his

couch, walked thirty meters to the north, and stood before a villager

who was standing there looking lowly with palms joined.

Immediately the discussion stopped and all eyes were turned to

Bhagavan and the villager standing at a distance.

They appeared to be conversing, but at such a distance no one could

tell about what. Soon Bhagavan returned to his couch and the

discussion resumed.

I was curious about this villager and why Bhagavan had gone out of his way to meet him.

So, while the discussion continued I slipped away and caught up with

him before he left the Ashram. I asked the villager what he and

Bhagavan had talked about. He said that Bhagavan had asked him why he

was standing there so far away. "I told Bhagavan, 'I am only an

ignorant, poor villager. How am I to approach you who are God

incarnate?'"

"What did the Maharshi say then?" I asked.

"He asked me my name, what village I was from, what work I did and how many children I had, etc."

"Did you ask Him anything?"

"I asked Him how I could be saved and how I could earn His blessings."

"What did He tell you?"

"He asked me if there was a temple in my village. I told him there

was. He wanted to know the name of the deity of that temple. I told

Him the name. He then said that I should go on repeating the name of

that deity and I would receive all the blessings needed."

I came back to Bhagavan's presence and sat among the devotees

listening to the learned discussion, in which I had now lost all

interest, realizing that the simple humility and devotion of this

peasant had evoked a far greater response from our Master than any

amount of learning. I then decided that, though a scholar by

profession, I should always remain a humble, ignorant peasant at

heart, and pray, like that villager, for Bhagavan's grace and

blessings.

- Professor K. Swaminathan

Discover Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM &

more. Check it out!

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

Discover Find restaurants, movies, travel &; more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

[Guest guest]

Surrender the surrender and know that you are perfect just the way you

are, and always have been no matter what. And loved no matter what.

And that Love is You Right Here Right now. It's always a question of

"Who loves ya baby?"

; -)

-

michael bindel

Monday, June 06, 2005 3:07 PM

Re: did we understand it and do we follow this example?

Dear friends

is it really so "difficult"?

yes: for whom?

due to michael bindels personal and long ongoing experience

its only difficult because

of the sense of personality the EGO

the Mind

letting go all this means

SURRENDERING

all obstacles in daily life are terrible but welcome lessons of GD for

those who really want to SURRENDER

to give up EGO to let go everything without expecting anything

terrible but healing!

a n d to know for sure without any doubt that this lessons are not

PUNISHMENT AT ALL

in love in GD

michael the foolAnna Ruiz <nli10u (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:

-

Michael Bowes

Sunday, June 05, 2005 7:11 PM

RE: did we understand it and do we follow this example?

OM TAT SAT

[] On Behalf Of HarshaSent:

Sunday, June 05, 2005 4:02 PMTo:

Subject: Re: [ - Ramana

Guru] did we understand it and do we follow this example?

Thanks Michael Bowes for the comments and thanks to Michael Bindel for

that beautiful story of Sri Ramana giving spiritual advice to the

peasant. I like what Michael Bowes stated, ""This is difficult for

people. They can see their own point of view; but they cannot

conceive of how their view can be reconciled with others.

Discussions or arguments arise. But words are a limited medium of

expression, and the more they are used, the more we may fail to

understand. For understanding never arises because of thought; but

it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the Unknowable."

 

Self is both personal and impersonal. To say it is one or other is to

simply impose a mental limitation on our true nature. Mind sees in

terms of either this or that. Self transcends the mind and therefore

is simultaneously this and that. All this is That, says Advaita. Self

is fully impersonal because it is independent of all objects of

perception, including the mind which is an instrument for perception.

Self is the light that makes all perception and experience possible.

Self is also fully personal because it is one's own Self. We can say,

One's Own Self because there is no other. It is One without a second.

One does not possess the Self but realizes One Is the Self. Seeing

and Being have no separation for the Self. When asked about whether

the Self is personal or impersonal, Sri Ramana once said that Self is

always the First Person. In fact, what could be more personal than

one's own Self? asked the sage.The words are meant for us to

understand our own reality. But we need not take them so seriously

that they obscure the Truth of our nature which is completely beyond

words and concepts. Christiane has been posting from Ashtavakra Gita.

14. Wonderful am I ! Adoration to myself who have nothing or have all

that is thought and spoken of.

Love to allHarsha

Michael Bowes wrote:

There are those who say that there is nothing to be gained. Ramana

has alluded to this himself. If there is nothing to be gained or

realized anew, then why practice? Yet from time to time Ramana would

teach various methods to certain individuals.

This seems to indicate that there are various truths which can be

known and experienced and that even when these truths seem

contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to accept or we

simply can’t understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE - the

SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where

various truths are valid at the same time.

This is difficult for people. They can see their own point of view;

but they cannot conceive of how their view can be reconciled with

others. Discussions or arguments arise. But words are a limited

medium of expression, and the more they are used, the more we may

fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable.

michael

Anna:

Who "Understands"? Acceptance and

surrender are just words/images in the mind.

Who "Understands"? When that is Known concepts such as acceptance and

surrender and unknowable, are seen for what they are. Nothing. Even

"Known" means nothing.

Do you know "Who" Michael is?

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

Discover Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM &

more. Check it out!

/join

"Love itself

is the actual form of God."Sri RamanaIn "Letters from Sri

Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

[Guest guest]

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Peace to you Michael Bindel and to All,

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Yes, Michael Bindel, we will never

understand; but we can dwell in the peace of undivided consciousness, sustained

by a living ocean of indescribable bliss.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Regards,

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">michael

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

[] On Behalf Of michael bindel

Monday, June 06, 2005 12:17

PM

RE: [ -

Ramana Guru] did we understand it and do we follow this example?

12.0pt">

OM NAMO BHAGAVATE SRI

RAMANAYA

12.0pt">

12.0pt">

12.0pt">Dear Michael Bowes

12.0pt">

12.0pt">sorry for this late answer.......

12.0pt">

12.0pt">

12.0pt">thank you for the joy michael experienced while reading your wonderful

mail.

12.0pt">

For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable.

12.0pt">

and this dear unknown friend is the truth michael feels to be

authentic

12.0pt">it is authentic

12.0pt">so michael has the inner urge to live up to it

12.0pt">

12.0pt">fullpoint

12.0pt">

12.0pt">

12.0pt">in love in GD

12.0pt">

12.0pt">

12.0pt">michael bindel

12.0pt">

12.0pt">

12.0pt">

12.0pt">

Michael

Bowes

font-style:italic"> <michaelbowes (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:

margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Hi Michael Bindel. It has been a

long time.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This wonderful story seems to teach at

least two valuable lessons. The first lesson, the lesson of humility,

seems obvious; but there is at least one other major point that can be gleaned

from this story. Ramana granted the man upadesa. He pointed out a

method for this man.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">There are those who say that there is

nothing to be gained. Ramana has alluded to this himself. If there

is nothing to be gained or realized anew, then why practice? Yet from

time to time Ramana would teach various methods to certain individuals.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This seems to indicate that there are

various truths which can be known and experienced and that even when these

truths seem contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to accept or

we simply can’t understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE - the

SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where various truths

are valid at the same time.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This is difficult for people. They

can see their own point of view; but they cannot conceive of how their view can

be reconciled with others. Discussions or arguments arise. But

words are a limited medium of expression, and the more they are used, the more

we may fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">michael

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold">

[] On Behalf Of michael bindel

Saturday, June 04, 2005 6:30

PM

To:

; millionpaths;

namoramana;

[ - Ramana

Guru] did we understand it and do we follow this example?

12.0pt">

color:#006600">THE MAHARSHI

7.5pt">

color:#006600">

"Arial Unicode MS";color:black">

color:#006600">March/April 2002

Vol. 12 - No. 2

color:black">

color:#006600">Produced & Edited by

Dennis Hartel

Dr. Anil K. Sharma

color:#666666">

color:#666666;font-style:italic">

color:#666666;font-style:italic">

color:#666666;font-style:italic">Pundit and Peasant

font-family:Arial">Once during a visit to the Ashram in the 1940s I was sitting

outside the Old Hall with many devotees, facing Sri Bhagavan who was reclining

on a couch. A group of learned pundits were discussing certain passages from

the Upanishads with great enthusiasm and profundity.

font-family:Arial">All, including Bhagavan, appeared to be attentively

listening to this interesting discussion when, all of a sudden, Bhagavan rose

from his couch, walked thirty meters to the north, and stood before a villager

who was standing there looking lowly with palms joined.

font-family:Arial">Immediately the discussion stopped and all eyes were turned

to Bhagavan and the villager standing at a distance.

font-family:Arial">They appeared to be conversing, but at such a distance no

one could tell about what. Soon Bhagavan returned to his couch and the

discussion resumed.

font-family:Arial">I was curious about this villager and why Bhagavan had gone

out of his way to meet him.

font-family:Arial">So, while the discussion continued I slipped away and caught

up with him before he left the Ashram. I asked the villager what he and Bhagavan

had talked about. He said that Bhagavan had asked him why he was standing there

so far away. "I told Bhagavan, 'I am only an ignorant, poor villager. How

am I to approach you who are God incarnate?'"

font-family:Arial">"What did the Maharshi say then?" I asked.

font-family:Arial">"He asked me my name, what village I was from, what

work I did and how many children I had, etc."

font-family:Arial">"Did you ask Him anything?"

font-family:Arial">"I asked Him how I could be saved and how I could earn

His blessings."

font-family:Arial">"What did He tell you?"

font-family:Arial">"He asked me if there was a temple in my village. I

told him there was. He wanted to know the name of the deity of that temple. I

told Him the name. He then said that I should go on repeating the name of that

deity and I would receive all the blessings needed."

font-family:Arial">I came back to Bhagavan's presence and sat among the

devotees listening to the learned discussion, in which I had now lost all

interest, realizing that the simple humility and devotion of this peasant had

evoked a far greater response from our Master than any amount of learning. I then

decided that, though a scholar by profession, I should always remain a humble,

ignorant peasant at heart, and pray, like that villager, for Bhagavan's grace

and blessings.

- Professor

K. Swaminathan

font-family:Arial">

Discover

Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check

it out!

/join

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

/join

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

12.0pt">Discover

Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check

it out!

/join

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

[Guest guest]

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Yes, I agree, please do. :-)

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">michael

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

 

color:windowtext">

[]

On Behalf Of Anna Ruiz

Monday, June 06, 2005 1:25

PM

Re: [ -

Ramana Guru] did we understand it and do we follow this example?

10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Surrender the surrender and know that you are perfect

just the way you are, and always have been no matter what.

And loved no matter what. And that Love is You Right Here

Right now. It's always a question of "Who loves ya baby?"

10.0pt;font-family:Arial">; -)

margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial">-

michael

bindel

Monday,

June 06, 2005 3:07 PM

Re:

did we understand it and do we follow this

example?

Dear friends

is it really so "difficult"?

yes: for whom?

due to michael bindels personal and long ongoing

experience

its only difficult because

of the sense of personality the EGO

the Mind

letting go all this means

SURRENDERING

all obstacles in daily life are terrible but welcome

lessons of GD for those who really want to SURRENDER

to give up EGO to let go everything

without expecting anything

terrible but healing!

a n d to know for sure without any

doubt that this lessons are not PUNISHMENT AT ALL

in love in GD

michael the fool

Anna Ruiz

<nli10u (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote:

margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:windowtext">-

font-weight:bold">Michael Bowes

To:

color:windowtext">

Sent:

color:windowtext"> Sunday, June 05, 2005 7:11 PM

Subject:

color:windowtext"> RE: did we understand it and

do we follow this example?

OM TAT SAT

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

 

color:windowtext">

[]

On Behalf Of Harsha

Sunday, June 05, 2005 4:02

PM

Re: [ -

Ramana Guru] did we understand it and do we follow this example?

Thanks Michael Bowes for the comments and

thanks to Michael Bindel for that beautiful story of Sri Ramana giving

spiritual advice to the peasant. I like what Michael Bowes stated, "

Arial;color:#CC0000;font-weight:bold">"This is difficult for people.

They can see their own point of view; but they cannot conceive of how their

view can be reconciled with others. Discussions or arguments arise.

But words are a limited medium of expression, and the more they are used, the

more we may fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable."

color:blue">

Self is both personal

and impersonal. To say it is one or other is to simply impose a mental

limitation on our true nature. Mind sees in terms of either this or that. Self

transcends the mind and therefore is simultaneously this and that. All this is

That, says Advaita.

Self is fully impersonal because it is independent of all objects of

perception, including the mind which is an instrument for perception. Self is

the light that makes all perception and experience possible.

Self is also fully personal because it is one's own Self. We can say, One's Own

Self because there is no other. It is One without a second. One does not

possess the Self but realizes One Is the Self. Seeing and Being have no

separation for the Self. When asked about whether the Self is personal or

impersonal, Sri Ramana once said that Self is always the First Person. In fact,

what could be more personal than one's own Self? asked the sage.

The words are meant for us to understand our own reality. But we need not take

them so seriously that they obscure the Truth of our nature which is completely

beyond words and concepts.

bold">Christiane has been posting from Ashtavakra Gita.

font-weight:bold">

bold">

bold">14. Wonderful am I ! Adoration to myself who have nothing or have all

that is thought and spoken of.

color:blue;font-weight:bold">

Love to all

Harsha

13.5pt;color:#000099;font-weight:bold">

Michael Bowes

wrote:

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">There

are those who say that there is nothing to be gained. Ramana has alluded

to this himself. If there is nothing to be gained or realized anew, then

why practice? Yet from time to time Ramana would teach various methods to

certain individuals.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This seems to indicate that there are

various truths which can be known and experienced and that even when these

truths seem contradictory it is only because many times we refuse to accept or

we simply can’t understand that the Unknowable Vastness of LIFE - the

SELF - exists and manifests in many ways simultaneously, where various truths

are valid at the same time.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">This is difficult for people. They

can see their own point of view; but they cannot conceive of how their view can

be reconciled with others. Discussions or arguments arise. But

words are a limited medium of expression, and the more they are used, the more

we may fail to understand. For understanding never arises because of

thought; but it eventually comes from acceptance and surrender to the

Unknowable.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">michael

10.0pt;font-family:Arial">Anna:

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Who "Understands"? Acceptance

and

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">surrender are just words/images in the

mind.

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Who "Understands"? When

that is Known concepts such as acceptance and surrender and unknowable, are

seen for what they are. Nothing. Even "Known" means

nothing.

10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Do you know "Who" Michael is?

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

/join

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

/join

"Courier New";color:windowtext">

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

windowtext">

/join

"Courier New";color:windowtext">

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

windowtext">

Discover

Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check

it out!

/join

"Courier New";color:windowtext">

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

windowtext">

/join

"Courier New";color:windowtext">

 

"Love itself is the actual form of God."

Sri Ramana

In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by

Suri Nagamma

windowtext">