about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

September 10, 2005

thank you again for your open and sincere mail. This openess and

sincerety is rare and can be felt - if you trust yourself enough and

if you are ready to open up completely.

This is connected with the readiness to total submission to the SELF

or GD or LOVE or RAMANA or Mose Buddha Jeshu how you want to name

it...

are your really sure that - like you wrote - in MOST CASES

discussions help you to understand matters better????

of course it should like this - but is it?

this results can only be if the partners in the discussions are mature enough....

it would be great if your opinion is the one which is "right"

by the way

do you use your "neutral observer"? This "faculty" in ourselves which

is able to watch everything we think do feel not do and so on.....

to reach this neutral observer is a socalled precondition for our inner growth

why do i ask you this?

because i ask you to use it the next times you find yourself inmidths of "discussions"

i "loved" to discuss very much so many matters - since my very early

childhood, and i tried to convince many people that being "bad" hurts

oneselve (as an practical example)

my efforts have been in vain - of course

another point i want to point at

modesty is of high importance if we watch discussions we see that

this is lacking most of the time

to question of selfes attitude, to accept that we can be "wrong" is another point of high importance

how many times did you experience that in discussions one confessed of

having used the wrong argument, having misunderstood the point of view

of the other one and so on

then comes the fact that most people are full of complexes of

inferiority complexes "wonderful" hidden behind socalled knowledge

facts and so on

of course if i want to know something which i do not know at the

moment i can ask for information - but this is not a discussion or?

and when asking i have to have again inner modesty

and dear unknown friend besides all this matters if we use our inner

instruments (of course they have to be discovered again and used and

trained and checked....) we feel immedeately when somebody in

"discussions" is

a) trying to "show off" trying to be "better" trying to

"missionize" and so on

b) we feel definetly (after using this faculty many times) when one

just uses his brain faculty and transmitts as facts matters heshe

knows only by intellect (computer knowledge)

whereas they only real knowledge comes from living it......

all this troubles we experience in everyday life inmidhts socalled

"ordinary people" a n d maybe to your disappointment (at least it

was mine too in the beginning...) in the socalled esoteric and or

spiritual field

here we all encounter the same superficiality like everywhere

besides all this

satsang is a Satsang for those who belief in Ramana Maharshi

with belief i do definetely not mean an intellectual concept b u t

a inner certainty without any doubt whatsoever that the path we

choose (Advaita) is our path. Fullpoint.

Of course thoughts arise who might lead us to doubt - b u t this

are thoughts and have to be treated like thoughts.

Let them pass and do not cling to any thought whatsoever....

and

all what we experience are like films in TV

they are n o t the reality what is real is existing always

this you definetly know - at least theoretically

and thats the point

no discussion whatsoever can save you from putting the theoretical knowledge into practical life

only than it is worth something otherwise its jus blabla

always ready to answer your question - but dear friend what i write

and say is practical experience never theory anymore

in love in GD

in all respect

your unknown virtual friend

michael bindel

Padma Menon <sudarshpa > wrote:

PranaamsMichael,

I cannot understand your message.In most cases discussions help you

to understand matters better. How can it be said to be senseless. If

I don't understand something I have to ask, otherwise how do I learn.

This is a paradox.Please explain.

pranaams peace & God bless may you have enough

Padma

Rudy Aguirre <rmarma (AT) umich (DOT) edu> wrote:

thanks>>> michael_bindel 09/09/05 3:14 PM >>>Dear virtual

friendsmay i in all due respect remember us what our beloved SADGURU

SRIRAMANA MAHARSHI saidDiscussions are shadowboxing of the mind and

contribute only to theenfolding of the Ego and are therefore

senselesswith all due respectyours sincerelymichael

Click here to donate to the

Hurricane Katrina relief

effort.**********************************************************Electronic

Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used

for urgent or sensitive issues.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

September 11, 2005

Its like saying 'Lets stop eating altogether because overeating causes

indigestion and certain foods can be poisonous'

Sachin

----

michael bindel

09/11/05 11:05:54

Re: about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

Dear Padma

thank you again for your open and sincere mail. This openess and

sincerety is rare and can be felt - if you trust yourself enough and

if you are ready to open up completely.

This is connected with the readiness to total submission to the SELF

or GD or LOVE or RAMANA or Mose Buddha Jeshu how you want to name

it...

are your really sure that - like you wrote - in MOST CASES

discussions help you to understand matters better????

of course it should like this - but is it?

this results can only be if the partners in the discussions are mature enough....

it would be great if your opinion is the one which is "right"

by the way

do you use your "neutral observer"? This "faculty" in ourselves which

is able to watch everything we think do feel not do and so on.....

to reach this neutral observer is a socalled precondition for our inner growth

why do i ask you this?

because i ask you to use it the next times you find yourself inmidths of "discussions"

i "loved" to discuss very much so many matters - since my very early

childhood, and i tried to convince many people that being "bad" hurts

oneselve (as an practical example)

my efforts have been in vain - of course

another point i want to point at

modesty is of high importance if we watch discussions we see that

this is lacking most of the time

to question of selfes attitude, to accept that we can be "wrong" is another point of high importance

how many times did you experience that in discussions one confessed of

having used the wrong argument, having misunderstood the point of view

of the other one and so on

then comes the fact that most people are full of complexes of

inferiority complexes "wonderful" hidden behind socalled knowledge

facts and so on

of course if i want to know something which i do not know at the

moment i can ask for information - but this is not a discussion or?

and when asking i have to have again inner modesty

and dear unknown friend besides all this matters if we use our inner

instruments (of course they have to be discovered again and used and

trained and checked....) we feel immedeately when somebody in

"discussions" is

a) trying to "show off" trying to be "better" trying to

"missionize" and so on

b) we feel definetly (after using this faculty many times) when one

just uses his brain faculty and transmitts as facts matters heshe

knows only by intellect (computer knowledge)

whereas they only real knowledge comes from living it......

all this troubles we experience in everyday life inmidhts socalled

"ordinary people" a n d maybe to your disappointment (at least it

was mine too in the beginning...) in the socalled esoteric and or

spiritual field

here we all encounter the same superficiality like everywhere

besides all this

satsang is a Satsang for those who belief in Ramana Maharshi

with belief i do definetely not mean an intellectual concept b u t

a inner certainty without any doubt whatsoever that the path we

choose (Advaita) is our path. Fullpoint.

Of course thoughts arise who might lead us to doubt - b u t this

are thoughts and have to be treated like thoughts.

Let them pass and do not cling to any thought whatsoever....

and

all what we experience are like films in TV

they are n o t the reality what is real is existing always

this you definetly know - at least theoretically

and thats the point

no discussion whatsoever can save you from putting the theoretical knowledge into practical life

only than it is worth something otherwise its jus blabla

always ready to answer your question - but dear friend what i write

and say is practical experience never theory anymore

in love in GD

in all respect

your unknown virtual friend

michael bindel

Padma Menon <sudarshpa > wrote:

PranaamsMichael,

I cannot understand your message.In most cases discussions help you

to understand matters better. How can it be said to be senseless. If

I don't understand something I have to ask, otherwise how do I learn.

This is a paradox.Please explain.

pranaams peace & God bless may you have enough

Padma

Rudy Aguirre <rmarma (AT) umich (DOT) edu> wrote:

thanks>>> michael_bindel 09/09/05 3:14 PM >>>Dear virtual

friendsmay i in all due respect remember us what our beloved SADGURU

SRIRAMANA MAHARSHI saidDiscussions are shadowboxing of the mind and

contribute only to theenfolding of the Ego and are therefore

senselesswith all due respectyours sincerelymichael

Click here to donate to the

Hurricane Katrina relief

effort.**********************************************************Electronic

Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used

for urgent or sensitive issues.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

September 11, 2005

this is an highly unintelligent answer for someone who writes so much

about theory - maybe it would be advisable to put in practice in

daily life what you swallow intellectually but maybe are not ready to

digest.....

imagine you would have responded with this words to our beloved

Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI - he was the one who stated this....

But of course only if living what you know you understand what he said - it is of timeless value.

With real modesty you will understand his words.....

in due respect

michael

Sachin Chavan <chavansachin (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000

4.0

;

Its like saying 'Lets stop eating altogether because overeating causes

indigestion and certain foods can be poisonous'

Sachin

----

michael bindel

09/11/05 11:05:54

Re: about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

Dear Padma

thank you again for your open and sincere mail. This openess and

sincerety is rare and can be felt - if you trust yourself enough and

if you are ready to open up completely.

This is connected with the readiness to total submission to the SELF

or GD or LOVE or RAMANA or Mose Buddha Jeshu how you want to name

it...

are your really sure that - like you wrote - in MOST CASES

discussions help you to understand matters better????

of course it should like this - but is it?

this results can only be if the partners in the discussions are mature enough....

it would be great if your opinion is the one which is "right"

by the way

do you use your "neutral observer"? This "faculty" in ourselves which

is able to watch everything we think do feel not do and so on.....

to reach this neutral observer is a socalled precondition for our inner growth

why do i ask you this?

because i ask you to use it the next times you find yourself inmidths of "discussions"

i "loved" to discuss very much so many matters - since my very early

childhood, and i tried to convince many people that being "bad" hurts

oneselve (as an practical example)

my efforts have been in vain - of course

another point i want to point at

modesty is of high importance if we watch discussions we see that

this is lacking most of the time

to question of selfes attitude, to accept that we can be "wrong" is another point of high importance

how many times did you experience that in discussions one confessed of

having used the wrong argument, having misunderstood the point of view

of the other one and so on

then comes the fact that most people are full of complexes of

inferiority complexes "wonderful" hidden behind socalled knowledge

facts and so on

of course if i want to know something which i do not know at the

moment i can ask for information - but this is not a discussion or?

and when asking i have to have again inner modesty

and dear unknown friend besides all this matters if we use our inner

instruments (of course they have to be discovered again and used and

trained and checked....) we feel immedeately when somebody in

"discussions" is

a) trying to "show off" trying to be "better" trying to

"missionize" and so on

b) we feel definetly (after using this faculty many times) when one

just uses his brain faculty and transmitts as facts matters heshe

knows only by intellect (computer knowledge)

whereas they only real knowledge comes from living it......

all this troubles we experience in everyday life inmidhts socalled

"ordinary people" a n d maybe to your disappointment (at least it

was mine too in the beginning...) in the socalled esoteric and or

spiritual field

here we all encounter the same superficiality like everywhere

besides all this

satsang is a Satsang for those who belief in Ramana Maharshi

with belief i do definetely not mean an intellectual concept b u t

a inner certainty without any doubt whatsoever that the path we

choose (Advaita) is our path. Fullpoint.

Of course thoughts arise who might lead us to doubt - b u t this

are thoughts and have to be treated like thoughts.

Let them pass and do not cling to any thought whatsoever....

and

all what we experience are like films in TV

they are n o t the reality what is real is existing always

this you definetly know - at least theoretically

and thats the point

no discussion whatsoever can save you from putting the theoretical knowledge into practical life

only than it is worth something otherwise its jus blabla

always ready to answer your question - but dear friend what i write

and say is practical experience never theory anymore

in love in GD

in all respect

your unknown virtual friend

michael bindel

Padma Menon <sudarshpa > wrote:

PranaamsMichael,

I cannot understand your message.In most cases discussions help you

to understand matters better. How can it be said to be senseless. If

I don't understand something I have to ask, otherwise how do I learn.

This is a paradox.Please explain.

pranaams peace & God bless may you have enough

Padma

Rudy Aguirre <rmarma (AT) umich (DOT) edu> wrote:

thanks>>> michael_bindel 09/09/05 3:14 PM >>>Dear virtual

friendsmay i in all due respect remember us what our beloved SADGURU

SRIRAMANA MAHARSHI saidDiscussions are shadowboxing of the mind and

contribute only to theenfolding of the Ego and are therefore

senselesswith all due respectyours sincerelymichael

Click here to donate to the

Hurricane Katrina relief

effort.**********************************************************Electronic

Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used

for urgent or sensitive issues.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Tired

of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around

September 11, 2005

Hey Michael,

Do you consider yourself a Guru or something? Please stop this 'holier

than thou' approach... its nauseating to others!

I don't mince words.

Sachin

----

michael bindel

09/12/05 00:07:06

Re: about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

Hi Sachin

this is an highly unintelligent answer for someone who writes so much

about theory - maybe it would be advisable to put in practice in

daily life what you swallow intellectually but maybe are not ready to

digest.....

imagine you would have responded with this words to our beloved

Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI - he was the one who stated this....

But of course only if living what you know you understand what he said - it is of timeless value.

With real modesty you will understand his words.....

in due respect

michael

Sachin Chavan <chavansachin (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Its like saying 'Lets stop eating altogether because overeating causes

indigestion and certain foods can be poisonous'

Sachin

----

michael bindel

09/11/05 11:05:54

Re: about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

Dear Padma

thank you again for your open and sincere mail. This openess and

sincerety is rare and can be felt - if you trust yourself enough and

if you are ready to open up completely.

This is connected with the readiness to total submission to the SELF

or GD or LOVE or RAMANA or Mose Buddha Jeshu how you want to name

it...

are your really sure that - like you wrote - in MOST CASES

discussions help you to understand matters better????

of course it should like this - but is it?

this results can only be if the partners in the discussions are mature enough....

it would be great if your opinion is the one which is "right"

by the way

do you use your "neutral observer"? This "faculty" in ourselves which

is able to watch everything we think do feel not do and so on.....

to reach this neutral observer is a socalled precondition for our inner growth

why do i ask you this?

because i ask you to use it the next times you find yourself inmidths of "discussions"

i "loved" to discuss very much so many matters - since my very early

childhood, and i tried to convince many people that being "bad" hurts

oneselve (as an practical example)

my efforts have been in vain - of course

another point i want to point at

modesty is of high importance if we watch discussions we see that

this is lacking most of the time

to question of selfes attitude, to accept that we can be "wrong" is another point of high importance

how many times did you experience that in discussions one confessed of

having used the wrong argument, having misunderstood the point of view

of the other one and so on

then comes the fact that most people are full of complexes of

inferiority complexes "wonderful" hidden behind socalled knowledge

facts and so on

of course if i want to know something which i do not know at the

moment i can ask for information - but this is not a discussion or?

and when asking i have to have again inner modesty

and dear unknown friend besides all this matters if we use our inner

instruments (of course they have to be discovered again and used and

trained and checked....) we feel immedeately when somebody in

"discussions" is

a) trying to "show off" trying to be "better" trying to

"missionize" and so on

b) we feel definetly (after using this faculty many times) when one

just uses his brain faculty and transmitts as facts matters heshe

knows only by intellect (computer knowledge)

whereas they only real knowledge comes from living it......

all this troubles we experience in everyday life inmidhts socalled

"ordinary people" a n d maybe to your disappointment (at least it

was mine too in the beginning...) in the socalled esoteric and or

spiritual field

here we all encounter the same superficiality like everywhere

besides all this

satsang is a Satsang for those who belief in Ramana Maharshi

with belief i do definetely not mean an intellectual concept b u t

a inner certainty without any doubt whatsoever that the path we

choose (Advaita) is our path. Fullpoint.

Of course thoughts arise who might lead us to doubt - b u t this

are thoughts and have to be treated like thoughts.

Let them pass and do not cling to any thought whatsoever....

and

all what we experience are like films in TV

they are n o t the reality what is real is existing always

this you definetly know - at least theoretically

and thats the point

no discussion whatsoever can save you from putting the theoretical knowledge into practical life

only than it is worth something otherwise its jus blabla

always ready to answer your question - but dear friend what i write

and say is practical experience never theory anymore

in love in GD

in all respect

your unknown virtual friend

michael bindel

Padma Menon <sudarshpa > wrote:

PranaamsMichael,

I cannot understand your message.In most cases discussions help you

to understand matters better. How can it be said to be senseless. If

I don't understand something I have to ask, otherwise how do I learn.

This is a paradox.Please explain.

pranaams peace & God bless may you have enough

Padma

Rudy Aguirre <rmarma (AT) umich (DOT) edu> wrote:

thanks>>> michael_bindel 09/09/05 3:14 PM >>>Dear virtual

friendsmay i in all due respect remember us what our beloved SADGURU

SRIRAMANA MAHARSHI saidDiscussions are shadowboxing of the mind and

contribute only to theenfolding of the Ego and are therefore

senselesswith all due respectyours sincerelymichael

Click here to donate to the

Hurricane Katrina relief

effort.**********************************************************Electronic

Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used

for urgent or sensitive issues.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Tired

of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around

September 11, 2005

margin-left:6.0pt;margin-top:3.0pt;margin-right:6.0pt;margin-bottom:6.0pt;

background-position-x:0px;background-position-y:0px" scroll="yes" ORGYPOS="0">

The following story does

not have much to do with this thread but it came back to me. In 1979, I was sharing

a house with two other students of my teacher. All of us often discussed things

that yogis talk about.

Enlightenment, spiritual practice, great gurus, meditation, proper diet.

I considered myself an expert on everything, which sometime led to comments about

being more humble, etc.

So one day, I asked my roommates

to pose me the great question. I said, please ask me, “If I am holier than

you.” The scratched their head but humored me and asked me each in turn

smiling, “Harsha, do you consider yourself holier than me?” To which

I replied looking at them, “Yes, I am holier than thou.” It seemed very

funny to us at the time and we laughed and I was happy

to finally get that sentence in a conversation.

Good times those were!

"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;

mso-char-type:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings;font-weight:bold">J

I could say such things to my friends. “Yes, I

am holier than thou and now must return to my meditation to meditate upon my

own holiness. Glory, glory be unto me. You are blessed to be in my holy presence. So now rejoice and

smile!”

mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;mso-char-type:symbol;

mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings;font-weight:bold">

symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings">J.

Harsha

text-align:center">

12.0pt">

[] On Behalf Of Sachin Chavan

Sunday, September 11, 2005

3:15 PM

Re: [ -

Ramana Guru] about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

12.0pt">

Hey Michael,

Do you consider

yourself a Guru or something? Please stop this 'holier than thou' approach...

its nauseating to others!

I don't mince

words.

Sachin

-------Original

Message-------

Arial">

bold;font-style:italic">michael bindel

bold;font-style:italic">09/12/05 00:07:06

bold;font-style:italic">

bold;font-style:italic">Re:

about socalled "discussion" about anything.....

PADMA

Hi Sachin

this is an highly

unintelligent answer for someone who writes so much about theory - maybe it

would be advisable to put in practice in daily life what you swallow

intellectually but maybe are not ready to digest.....

imagine you would

have responded with this words to our beloved Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI -

he was the one who stated this....

But of course

only if living what you know you understand what he said - it is of timeless

value.

With real modesty

you will understand his words.....

in due respect

michael

Sachin Chavan

<chavansachin (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Its like saying

'Lets stop eating altogether because overeating causes indigestion and

certain foods can be poisonous'

Sachin

font-style:italic">----

font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">michael bindel

font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">Date:

09/11/05 11:05:54

font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">

font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">Re:

about socalled "discussion" about

anything..... PADMA

Arial;color:blue">Dear Padma

Arial;color:#80C0FF">thank you again for your open and sincere mail. This

openess and sincerety is rare and can be felt - if you trust yourself

enough and if you are ready to open up completely.

Arial;color:#80C0FF">This is connected with the readiness to total

submission to the SELF or GD or LOVE or RAMANA or Mose Buddha Jeshu

how you want to name it...

Arial;color:#80C0FF">are your really sure that - like you wrote - in

MOST CASES discussions help you to understand matters better????

Arial;color:#80C0FF">of course it should like this - but is it?

Arial;color:#80C0FF">this results can only be if the partners in the

discussions are mature enough....

Arial;color:#80C0FF">it would be great if your opinion is the one which is

"right"

Arial;color:#80C0FF">by the way

Arial;color:#80C0FF">do you use your "neutral observer"?

This "faculty" in ourselves which is able to watch everything we

think do feel not do and so on.....

Arial;color:#80C0FF">to reach this neutral observer is a socalled

precondition for our inner growth

Arial;color:#80C0FF">why do i ask you this?

Arial;color:#80C0FF">because i ask you to use it the next times you find

yourself inmidths of "discussions"

Arial;color:#80C0FF">i "loved" to discuss very much so many

matters - since my very early childhood, and i tried to convince many

people that being "bad" hurts oneselve (as an practical

example)

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">my efforts have been in vain - of course

Arial;color:#80C0FF">another point i want to point at

Arial;color:#80C0FF">modesty is of high importance if we watch

discussions we see that this is lacking most of the time

Arial;color:#80C0FF">to question of selfes attitude, to accept that we can

be "wrong" is another point of high importance

Arial;color:#80C0FF">how many times did you experience that in discussions

one confessed of having used the wrong argument, having misunderstood the

point of view of the other one and so on

Arial;color:#80C0FF">then comes the fact that most people are full of

complexes of inferiority complexes "wonderful" hidden behind

socalled knowledge facts and so on

Arial;color:#80C0FF">of course if i want to know something which i do not

know at the moment i can ask for information - but this is not a

discussion or?

Arial;color:#80C0FF">and when asking i have to have again inner modesty

Arial;color:#80C0FF">and dear unknown friend besides all this

matters if we use our inner instruments (of course they have to be

discovered again and used and trained and checked....) we feel immedeately

when somebody in "discussions" is

Arial;color:#80C0FF">a) trying to "show off" trying

to be "better" trying to "missionize"

and so on

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">b) we feel definetly (after using this faculty many

times) when one just uses his brain faculty and transmitts as facts matters

heshe knows only by intellect (computer knowledge)

Arial;color:#80C0FF">whereas they only real knowledge comes from living

it......

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">all this troubles we experience in everyday life

inmidhts socalled "ordinary people" a n d

maybe to your disappointment (at least it was mine too in the

beginning...) in the socalled esoteric and or spiritual field

Arial;color:#80C0FF">here we all encounter the same superficiality like

everywhere

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">besides all this

Arial;color:#80C0FF">satsang is a Satsang for those who belief in

Ramana Maharshi

Arial;color:#80C0FF">with belief i do definetely not mean an intellectual

concept b u t a inner certainty without

any doubt whatsoever that the path we choose (Advaita) is our path.

Fullpoint.

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">Of course thoughts arise who might lead us to

doubt - b u t this are thoughts and have to

be treated like thoughts.

Arial;color:#80C0FF">Let them pass and do not cling to any thought

whatsoever....

Arial;color:#80C0FF">and

Arial;color:#80C0FF">all what we experience are like films in TV

Arial;color:#80C0FF">they are n o t the

reality what is real is existing always this

you definetly know - at least theoretically

Arial;color:#80C0FF">and thats the point

Arial;color:#80C0FF">no discussion whatsoever can save you from putting the

theoretical knowledge into practical life

Arial;color:#80C0FF">only than it is worth something otherwise its

jus blabla

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">always ready to answer your question - but dear

friend what i write and say is practical experience never

theory anymore

Arial;color:#80C0FF">in love in GD

Arial;color:#80C0FF">in all respect

Arial;color:#80C0FF">your unknown virtual friend

Arial;color:#80C0FF">michael bindel

Padma Menon

<sudarshpa > wrote:

PranaamsMichael,

I cannot

understand your message.In most cases discussions help you to understand

matters better. How can it be said to be senseless. If I don't understand

something I have to ask, otherwise how do I learn. This is a paradox.Please

explain.

pranaams peace

& God bless may you have enough

Padma

Rudy Aguirre

<rmarma (AT) umich (DOT) edu> wrote:

thanks

>>> michael_bindel

09/09/05 3:14 PM >>>

Dear virtual friends

may i in all due respect remember us what

our beloved SADGURU SRI

RAMANA MAHARSHI said

Discussions are shadowboxing of the mind

and contribute only to the

enfolding of the Ego and are therefore

senseless

with all due respect

yours sincerely

michael

Click here to donate to the Hurricane

Katrina relief effort.

**********************************************************

Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be

read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues.

Send

instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in">

text-align:center">

font-family:Arial">

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September 11, 2005

Harsha, your Supreme holier-ness is a joy to us all to this day. Don't

ever change. Stay holier than me. It brings much happiness.

Love,

Jill

On Sep 11, 2005, at 3:55 PM, Harsha wrote:

> The following story does not have much to do with this thread but it

> came back to me. In 1979, I was sharing a house with two other

> students of my teacher. All of us often discussed things that yogis

> talk about.Â Enlightenment, spiritual practice, great gurus,

> meditation, proper diet. I considered myself an expert on everything,

> which sometime led to comments about being more humble, etc.

>

> So one day, I asked my roommates to pose me the great question. I

> said, please ask me, â€œIf I am holier than you.â€ The scratched their

> head but humored me and asked me each in turn smiling, â€œHarsha, do you

> consider yourself holier than me?â€ To which I replied looking at them,

> â€œYes, I am holier than thou.â€ It seemed very funny to us at the time

> and we laughed and I was happy to finally get that sentence in a

> conversation. Â Â

>

> Good times those were! J I could say such things to my friends.Â â€œYes,

> I am holier than thou and now must return to my meditation to meditate

> upon my own holiness. Glory, glory be unto me. You are blessed to be

> in my holy presence. So now rejoice and smile!â€ J.

>

> Harsha

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> [] On Behalf Of Sachin Chavan

> Sunday, September 11, 2005 3:15 PM

>

> Re: about socalled

> "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

>

> Â

>

> Hey Michael,

>

> Â

>

> Do you consider yourself a Guru or something? Please stop this

> 'holier than thou' approach... its nauseating to others!

>

> Â

>

> I don't mince words.

>

> Â

>

> Sachin

>

> Â

>

> Â Â

>

> -------Original Message-------

>

> Â

>

> michael bindel

>

> 09/12/05 00:07:06

>

> Re: about socalled

> "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

>

> Â

>

> Hi Sachin

>

> Â

>

> this is an highly unintelligent answer for someone who writes so much

> about theory - maybe it would be advisable to put in practice in

> daily life what you swallow intellectually but maybe are not ready to

> digest.....

>

> Â

>

> imagine you would have responded with this words to our beloved

> Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI - he was the one who stated this....

>

> Â

>

> But of course only if living what you know you understand what he

> said - it is of timeless value.

>

> Â

>

> With real modesty you will understand his words.....

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> in due respect

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> michael

>

> Â

>

> Sachin Chavan <chavansachin wrote:

>

> Its like saying 'Lets stop eating altogether because overeating

> causes indigestion and certain foods can be poisonous'

>

> Â

>

> Sachin

>

> Â

>

> Â Â

>

> ----

>

> Â

>

> michael bindel

>

> 09/11/05 11:05:54

>

> Re: about socalled

> "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

>

> Â

>

> Dear Padma

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> thank you again for your open and sincere mail. This openess and

> sincerety is rare and can be felt - ifÂ you trust yourself enough and

> if you are ready to open up completely.

>

> This is connected with the readiness to total submission to the SELF

> or GD or LOVE or RAMANA or Mose Buddha JeshuÂ how you want to name

> it...

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> are your really sure thatÂ - like you wrote - in MOST CASES

> discussions help you to understand matters better????

>

> Â

>

> of course it should like this - but is it?

>

> Â

>

> this results can only be if the partners in the discussions are

> mature enough....

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> it would be great if your opinion is the one which is "right"

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> by the way

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> do you use your "neutral observer"?Â This "faculty" in ourselves

> which is able to watch everything we think do feel not do and so

> on.....

>

> Â

>

> to reach this neutral observer is a socalled precondition for our

> inner growth

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> why do i ask you this?

>

> Â

>

> because i ask you to use it the next times you find yourself inmidths

> of "discussions"

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> i "loved" to discuss very much so many matters - since my very early

> childhood, and i tried to convince many people that being "bad" hurts

> oneselveÂ (as an practical example)

>

> my efforts have been in vain - of course

>

> Â

>

> another point i want to point at

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> modesty is of high importanceÂ Â if we watch discussions we see that

> this is lacking most of the time

>

> Â

>

> to question of selfes attitude, to accept that we can be "wrong" is

> another point of high importance

>

> Â

>

> how many times did you experience that in discussions one confessed of

> having used the wrong argument, having misunderstood the point of

> view of the other one and so on

>

> Â

>

> then comes the fact that most people are full of complexes of

> inferiority complexes "wonderful" hidden behind socalled knowledge

> facts and so on

>

> Â

>

> of course if i want to know something which i do not know at the

> moment i can ask for information - but this is not a discussionÂ Â or?

>

> Â

>

> and when asking i have to have again inner modesty

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> and dear unknown friendÂ besides all this mattersÂ if we use our

> inner instruments (of course they have to be discovered again and used

> and trained and checked....) we feel immedeately when somebody in

> "discussions"Â Â is

>

> Â

>

> a) trying to "show off"Â Â trying to be "better"Â Â trying to

> "missionize"Â and so on

>

> b) we feel definetly (after using this faculty many times) when one

> just uses his brain faculty and transmitts as facts matters heshe

> knows only by intellect (computer knowledge)

>

> whereas they only real knowledge comes from living it......

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> all this troubles we experience in everyday life inmidhts socalled

> "ordinary people"Â Â a n dÂ Â maybe to your disappointment (at least it

> was mine too in the beginning...)Â in the socalled esoteric and or

> spiritual field

>

> here we all encounter the same superficiality like everywhere

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> besides all this

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> satsang is a Satsang for those who belief in Ramana Maharshi

>

> with belief i do definetely not mean an intellectual conceptÂ Â Â b u

> tÂ Â Â a inner certainty without any doubt whatsoever that the path we

> choose (Advaita)Â is our path. Fullpoint.

>

> Â

>

> Of course thoughts arise who might lead us to doubtÂ -Â Â b u tÂ Â this

> are thoughts and have to be treated like thoughts.

>

> Â

>

> Let them pass and do not cling to any thought whatsoever....

>

> and

>

> Â

>

> all what we experience are like films in TV

>

> they areÂ Â n o tÂ Â Â the realityÂ Â Â what is real is existing

alwaysÂ Â

> this you definetly know - at least theoretically

>

> Â

>

> and thats the point

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> no discussion whatsoever can save you from putting the theoretical

> knowledge into practical life

>

> only than it is worth somethingÂ otherwise its jus blabla

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> always ready to answer your questionÂ - but dear friendÂ Â what i

> write and say is practical experience never theory anymore

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> in love in GD

>

> Â

>

> in all respect

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> your unknown virtual friend

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> michael bindel

>

> Â

>

> Padma Menon <sudarshpa wrote:

>

> PranaamsMichael,

>

> Â I cannot understand your message.In most cases discussions help you

> to understand matters better. How can it be said to be senseless. If

> I don't understand something I have to ask, otherwise how do I learn.

> This is a paradox.Please explain.

>

> pranaams peace & God bless may you have enough

>

> Padma

>

> Rudy Aguirre <rmarma wrote:

>

> thanks

>

> >>> michael_bindel 09/09/05 3:14 PM >>>

> Dear virtual friends

>

> may i in all due respect remember us what our beloved SADGURU SRI

> RAMANA MAHARSHI said

>

> Discussions are shadowboxing of the mind and contribute only to the

> enfolding of the Ego and are therefore senseless

>

> with all due respect

>

> yours sincerely

>

> michael

>

> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â

>

> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

>

> **********************************************************

> Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should

> not be used for urgent or sensitive issues.

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

> http://uk.messenger.

>

> Â

>

> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> Â

>

> /join

>

> "Love itself is the actual form of God."

>

> Sri Ramana

>

> In "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" by Suri Nagamma

>

> â–ª Â Visit your group "" on the web.

> Â

> â–ª Â

> Â

> â–ª Â Terms of

> Service.

>

Attachment: (text/enriched) [not stored]

September 12, 2005

thank you for your wonderful "story"

inner laugh outer laugh

great

wish you a wonderful time with your SELF

all the best

michael

wrote:

FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000

4.0

;

The following story does not have much to do with this thread but it

came back to me. In 1979, I was sharing a house with two other

students of my teacher. All of us often discussed things that yogis

talk about. Enlightenment, spiritual practice, great gurus,

meditation, proper diet. I considered myself an expert on everything,

which sometime led to comments about being more humble, etc.

So one day, I asked my roommates to pose me the great question. I

said, please ask me, “If I am holier than you.” The scratched their

head but humored me and asked me each in turn smiling, “Harsha, do

you consider yourself holier than me?” To which I replied looking at

them, “Yes, I am holier than thou.” It seemed very funny to us at the

time and we laughed and I was happy to finally get that sentence in a

conversation.

Good times those were! J I could say such things to my friends. “Yes,

I am holier than thou and now must return to my meditation to meditate

upon my own holiness. Glory, glory be unto me. You are blessed to be

in my holy presence. So now rejoice and smile!” J.

Harsha

[] On Behalf Of Sachin

ChavanSunday, September 11, 2005 3:15 PMTo:

Subject: Re: [ - Ramana

Guru] about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

Hey Michael,

Do you consider yourself a Guru or something? Please stop this 'holier

than thou' approach... its nauseating to others!

I don't mince words.

Sachin

----

michael bindel

09/12/05 00:07:06

Re: about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

Hi Sachin

this is an highly unintelligent answer for someone who writes so much

about theory - maybe it would be advisable to put in practice in

daily life what you swallow intellectually but maybe are not ready to

digest.....

imagine you would have responded with this words to our beloved

Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI - he was the one who stated this....

But of course only if living what you know you understand what he said - it is of timeless value.

With real modesty you will understand his words.....

in due respect

michael

Sachin Chavan <chavansachin (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Its like saying 'Lets stop eating altogether because overeating causes

indigestion and certain foods can be poisonous'

Sachin

----

michael bindel

09/11/05 11:05:54

Re: about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

Dear Padma

thank you again for your open and sincere mail. This openess and

sincerety is rare and can be felt - if you trust yourself enough and

if you are ready to open up completely.

This is connected with the readiness to total submission to the SELF

or GD or LOVE or RAMANA or Mose Buddha Jeshu how you want to name

it...

are your really sure that - like you wrote - in MOST CASES

discussions help you to understand matters better????

of course it should like this - but is it?

this results can only be if the partners in the discussions are mature enough....

it would be great if your opinion is the one which is "right"

by the way

do you use your "neutral observer"? This "faculty" in ourselves which

is able to watch everything we think do feel not do and so on.....

to reach this neutral observer is a socalled precondition for our inner growth

why do i ask you this?

because i ask you to use it the next times you find yourself inmidths of "discussions"

i "loved" to discuss very much so many matters - since my very early

childhood, and i tried to convince many people that being "bad" hurts

oneselve (as an practical example)

my efforts have been in vain - of course

another point i want to point at

modesty is of high importance if we watch discussions we see that

this is lacking most of the time

to question of selfes attitude, to accept that we can be "wrong" is another point of high importance

how many times did you experience that in discussions one confessed of

having used the wrong argument, having misunderstood the point of view

of the other one and so on

then comes the fact that most people are full of complexes of

inferiority complexes "wonderful" hidden behind socalled knowledge

facts and so on

of course if i want to know something which i do not know at the

moment i can ask for information - but this is not a discussion or?

and when asking i have to have again inner modesty

and dear unknown friend besides all this matters if we use our inner

instruments (of course they have to be discovered again and used and

trained and checked....) we feel immedeately when somebody in

"discussions" is

a) trying to "show off" trying to be "better" trying to

"missionize" and so on

b) we feel definetly (after using this faculty many times) when one

just uses his brain faculty and transmitts as facts matters heshe

knows only by intellect (computer knowledge)

whereas they only real knowledge comes from living it......

all this troubles we experience in everyday life inmidhts socalled

"ordinary people" a n d maybe to your disappointment (at least it

was mine too in the beginning...) in the socalled esoteric and or

spiritual field

here we all encounter the same superficiality like everywhere

besides all this

satsang is a Satsang for those who belief in Ramana Maharshi

with belief i do definetely not mean an intellectual concept b u t

a inner certainty without any doubt whatsoever that the path we

choose (Advaita) is our path. Fullpoint.

Of course thoughts arise who might lead us to doubt - b u t this

are thoughts and have to be treated like thoughts.

Let them pass and do not cling to any thought whatsoever....

and

all what we experience are like films in TV

they are n o t the reality what is real is existing always

this you definetly know - at least theoretically

and thats the point

no discussion whatsoever can save you from putting the theoretical knowledge into practical life

only than it is worth something otherwise its jus blabla

always ready to answer your question - but dear friend what i write

and say is practical experience never theory anymore

in love in GD

in all respect

your unknown virtual friend

michael bindel

Padma Menon <sudarshpa > wrote:

PranaamsMichael,

I cannot understand your message.In most cases discussions help you

to understand matters better. How can it be said to be senseless. If

I don't understand something I have to ask, otherwise how do I learn.

This is a paradox.Please explain.

pranaams peace & God bless may you have enough

Padma

Rudy Aguirre <rmarma (AT) umich (DOT) edu> wrote:

thanks>>> michael_bindel 09/09/05 3:14 PM >>>Dear virtual

friendsmay i in all due respect remember us what our beloved SADGURU

SRIRAMANA MAHARSHI saidDiscussions are shadowboxing of the mind and

contribute only to theenfolding of the Ego and are therefore

senselesswith all due respectyours sincerelymichael

Click here to donate to the

Hurricane Katrina relief

effort.**********************************************************Electronic

Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used

for urgent or sensitive issues.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Tired

of spam? Mail has the best spam protection around

for Good Watch the Hurricane Katrina Shelter From The Storm concert

September 12, 2005

margin-top:3.0pt;margin-right:6.0pt;margin-bottom:6.0pt;background-position-x:0px;

background-position-y:0px" scroll="yes" ORGYPOS="0">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Hello all,

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">I’ve been away a much of the last

several weeks and I haven’t had a chance to read the emails for

quite sometime. I have returned and in order to find a place to dive into

the group discussions I just picked one at random. This thread is the one

that opened. It’s fascinating.

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Please let me post this lovely little poem

that I was so pleased to author. :-)

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">:-) :-)

:-) :-)

12.0pt">MY HILL IS HOLIER THAN THOU

My Hill is holier than

thou

It’s even holier

than a Hindu cow

My Hill is holier than

thine

It’s holier than

thine, because it’s mine

My guru is always there

To give me hope and allay

my fear

I’d take you there,

if you would go

But I’m afraid,

you’d just say no

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">Love to all :-)

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">michael

12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue">

text-align:center">

12.0pt">

[] On Behalf Of Harsha

Sunday, September 11, 2005 12:55

PM

RE: [ -

Ramana Guru] about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

12.0pt">

The following story does

not have much to do with this thread but it came back to me. In 1979, I was

sharing a house with two other students of my teacher. All of us often

discussed things that yogis talk about. Enlightenment, spiritual

practice, great gurus, meditation, proper diet. I considered myself an expert

on everything, which sometime led to comments about being more humble, etc.

So one day, I asked my

roommates to pose me the great question. I said, please ask me, “If I am

holier than you.” The scratched their head but humored me and asked me

each in turn smiling, “Harsha, do you consider yourself holier than

me?” To which I replied looking at them, “Yes, I am holier than

thou.” It seemed very funny to us at the time and we laughed and I was

happy to finally get that sentence in a conversation.

Good times those were!

font-weight:bold">J I

could say such things to my friends. “Yes, I am holier than thou

and now must return to my meditation to meditate upon my own holiness. Glory,

glory be unto me. You are blessed to be in my holy presence. So now rejoice and

smile!” J.

Harsha

text-align:center">

12.0pt">

[] On Behalf Of Sachin Chavan

Sunday, September 11, 2005

3:15 PM

Re: [ -

Ramana Guru] about socalled "discussion" about anything..... PADMA

12.0pt">

Hey Michael,

Do you consider

yourself a Guru or something? Please stop this 'holier than thou' approach...

its nauseating to others!

I don't mince

words.

Sachin

-------Original

Message-------

Arial">

bold;font-style:italic">michael bindel

bold;font-style:italic">09/12/05 00:07:06

bold;font-style:italic">

bold;font-style:italic">Re:

about socalled "discussion" about

anything..... PADMA

Hi Sachin

this is an highly

unintelligent answer for someone who writes so much about theory - maybe it

would be advisable to put in practice in daily life what you swallow

intellectually but maybe are not ready to digest.....

imagine you would

have responded with this words to our beloved Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI -

he was the one who stated this....

But of course

only if living what you know you understand what he said - it is of timeless

value.

With real modesty

you will understand his words.....

in due respect

michael

Sachin Chavan

<chavansachin (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Its like saying

'Lets stop eating altogether because overeating causes indigestion and

certain foods can be poisonous'

Sachin

font-style:italic">----

font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">michael bindel

font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">Date:

09/11/05 11:05:54

font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">

font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">Re:

about socalled "discussion" about

anything..... PADMA

Arial;color:blue">Dear Padma

Arial;color:#80C0FF">thank you again for your open and sincere mail. This

openess and sincerety is rare and can be felt - if you trust yourself

enough and if you are ready to open up completely.

Arial;color:#80C0FF">This is connected with the readiness to total

submission to the SELF or GD or LOVE or RAMANA or Mose Buddha Jeshu

how you want to name it...

Arial;color:#80C0FF">are your really sure that - like you wrote - in

MOST CASES discussions help you to understand matters better????

Arial;color:#80C0FF">of course it should like this - but is it?

Arial;color:#80C0FF">this results can only be if the partners in the

discussions are mature enough....

Arial;color:#80C0FF">it would be great if your opinion is the one which is

"right"

Arial;color:#80C0FF">by the way

Arial;color:#80C0FF">do you use your "neutral observer"?

This "faculty" in ourselves which is able to watch everything we

think do feel not do and so on.....

Arial;color:#80C0FF">to reach this neutral observer is a socalled

precondition for our inner growth

Arial;color:#80C0FF">why do i ask you this?

Arial;color:#80C0FF">because i ask you to use it the next times you find

yourself inmidths of "discussions"

Arial;color:#80C0FF">i "loved" to discuss very much so many

matters - since my very early childhood, and i tried to convince many

people that being "bad" hurts oneselve (as an practical

example)

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">my efforts have been in vain - of course

Arial;color:#80C0FF">another point i want to point at

Arial;color:#80C0FF">modesty is of high importance if we watch

discussions we see that this is lacking most of the time

Arial;color:#80C0FF">to question of selfes attitude, to accept that we can

be "wrong" is another point of high importance

Arial;color:#80C0FF">how many times did you experience that in discussions

one confessed of having used the wrong argument, having misunderstood the

point of view of the other one and so on

Arial;color:#80C0FF">then comes the fact that most people are full of

complexes of inferiority complexes "wonderful" hidden behind

socalled knowledge facts and so on

Arial;color:#80C0FF">of course if i want to know something which i do not

know at the moment i can ask for information - but this is not a

discussion or?

Arial;color:#80C0FF">and when asking i have to have again inner modesty

Arial;color:#80C0FF">and dear unknown friend besides all this

matters if we use our inner instruments (of course they have to be

discovered again and used and trained and checked....) we feel immedeately

when somebody in "discussions" is

Arial;color:#80C0FF">a) trying to "show off" trying

to be "better" trying to "missionize"

and so on

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">b) we feel definetly (after using this faculty many

times) when one just uses his brain faculty and transmitts as facts matters

heshe knows only by intellect (computer knowledge)

Arial;color:#80C0FF">whereas they only real knowledge comes from living

it......

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">all this troubles we experience in everyday life

inmidhts socalled "ordinary people" a n d

maybe to your disappointment (at least it was mine too in the

beginning...) in the socalled esoteric and or spiritual field

Arial;color:#80C0FF">here we all encounter the same superficiality like

everywhere

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">besides all this

Arial;color:#80C0FF">satsang is a Satsang for those who belief in

Ramana Maharshi

Arial;color:#80C0FF">with belief i do definetely not mean an intellectual

concept b u t a inner certainty without

any doubt whatsoever that the path we choose (Advaita) is our path.

Fullpoint.

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">Of course thoughts arise who might lead us to

doubt - b u t this are thoughts and have to

be treated like thoughts.

Arial;color:#80C0FF">Let them pass and do not cling to any thought

whatsoever....

Arial;color:#80C0FF">and

Arial;color:#80C0FF">all what we experience are like films in TV

Arial;color:#80C0FF">they are n o t the

reality what is real is existing always this

you definetly know - at least theoretically

Arial;color:#80C0FF">and thats the point

Arial;color:#80C0FF">no discussion whatsoever can save you from putting the

theoretical knowledge into practical life

Arial;color:#80C0FF">only than it is worth something otherwise its

jus blabla

Arial">

Arial;color:#80C0FF">always ready to answer your question - but dear

friend what i write and say is practical experience never

theory anymore

Arial;color:#80C0FF">in love in GD

Arial;color:#80C0FF">in all respect

Arial;color:#80C0FF">your unknown virtual friend

Arial;color:#80C0FF">michael bindel

Padma Menon

<sudarshpa > wrote:

PranaamsMichael,

I cannot

understand your message.In most cases discussions help you to understand matters

better. How can it be said to be senseless. If I don't understand something

I have to ask, otherwise how do I learn. This is a paradox.Please explain.

pranaams peace

& God bless may you have enough

Padma

Rudy Aguirre

<rmarma (AT) umich (DOT) edu> wrote:

thanks

>>> michael_bindel

09/09/05 3:14 PM >>>

Dear virtual friends

may i in all due respect remember us what

our beloved SADGURU SRI

RAMANA MAHARSHI said

Discussions are shadowboxing of the mind

and contribute only to the

enfolding of the Ego and are therefore

senseless

with all due respect

yours sincerely

michael

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Katrina relief effort.

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September 13, 2005

Sorry for the delay in replying.I truly wish to reply. As you say

not all discussions are helpful but in most cases it should & in some

cases it leaves you more confussed & distraught.In a discussion it

would be good if all of us are on the same wave length; with a

reasonaable amount of knowledge on the subject of discussion.As you

say maturity of the same level.Again I think we should be broad

enough to accept other peoples's ideas, thoughts & not think this is

right or wrong.Who are we to say so? Most often we become very

judgemental & this hampers a good thought provoking discussion.We

must be able to accept others opinions & presentations.This I think

is spiritual growth.Very often we don't listen wea re already

thinking of how to rebutt.

Neutral observer- after some time I feel all of us can reach this

stage. A time comes when we know we have said somthing wrong, we are

nagative& we should not do this thing.This is spontaneuous in

spiritual growth.

We have to be modest this is difficult as our good friend Ego will not

leave us. In discussions we have to guard our ego closely. Very often

when we feel we have the discussion on our side it is the ego, ego

can get the better of us.

Actually on my part I am not so keen on a discussion as per se but on

explainations. I ask what I don't understand or know I am very keen

to learn, gain experience.

Your observations on discusions are very correct.- showing off etc.

But if you are able to understsand , to read in between the lines &

the motive of the person, arn't you beyond this person, arn't you on

a higher rung on the ladder of spirituality?

Actually Michael, I don't know any of the teachings of Sire Ramana I

just joined this group because of the satsang & I want tolearn Plese

educate me on this great man.And theoretical knowledge is as far as

the book goes. Everyone of us is an individual & each one's growth is

different.

Thank you for taking an interest in me, I appreciate this very much

Pranaams peace & God bless may you have enough

Padmamichael bindel <michael_bindel > wrote:

Dear Padma

thank you again for your open and sincere mail. This openess and

sincerety is rare and can be felt - if you trust yourself enough and

if you are ready to open up completely.

This is connected with the readiness to total submission to the SELF

or GD or LOVE or RAMANA or Mose Buddha Jeshu how you want to name

it...

are your really sure that - like you wrote - in MOST CASES

discussions help you to understand matters better????

of course it should like this - but is it?

this results can only be if the partners in the discussions are mature enough....

it would be great if your opinion is the one which is "right"

by the way

do you use your "neutral observer"? This "faculty" in ourselves which

is able to watch everything we think do feel not do and so on.....

to reach this neutral observer is a socalled precondition for our inner growth

why do i ask you this?

because i ask you to use it the next times you find yourself inmidths of "discussions"

i "loved" to discuss very much so many matters - since my very early

childhood, and i tried to convince many people that being "bad" hurts

oneselve (as an practical example)

my efforts have been in vain - of course

another point i want to point at

modesty is of high importance if we watch discussions we see that

this is lacking most of the time

to question of selfes attitude, to accept that we can be "wrong" is another point of high importance

how many times did you experience that in discussions one confessed of

having used the wrong argument, having misunderstood the point of view

of the other one and so on

then comes the fact that most people are full of complexes of

inferiority complexes "wonderful" hidden behind socalled knowledge

facts and so on

of course if i want to know something which i do not know at the

moment i can ask for information - but this is not a discussion or?

and when asking i have to have again inner modesty

and dear unknown friend besides all this matters if we use our inner

instruments (of course they have to be discovered again and used and

trained and checked....) we feel immedeately when somebody in

"discussions" is

a) trying to "show off" trying to be "better" trying to

"missionize" and so on

b) we feel definetly (after using this faculty many times) when one

just uses his brain faculty and transmitts as facts matters heshe

knows only by intellect (computer knowledge)

whereas they only real knowledge comes from living it......

all this troubles we experience in everyday life inmidhts socalled

"ordinary people" a n d maybe to your disappointment (at least it

was mine too in the beginning...) in the socalled esoteric and or

spiritual field

here we all encounter the same superficiality like everywhere

besides all this

satsang is a Satsang for those who belief in Ramana Maharshi

with belief i do definetely not mean an intellectual concept b u t

a inner certainty without any doubt whatsoever that the path we

choose (Advaita) is our path. Fullpoint.

Of course thoughts arise who might lead us to doubt - b u t this

are thoughts and have to be treated like thoughts.

Let them pass and do not cling to any thought whatsoever....

and

all what we experience are like films in TV

they are n o t the reality what is real is existing always

this you definetly know - at least theoretically

and thats the point

no discussion whatsoever can save you from putting the theoretical knowledge into practical life

only than it is worth something otherwise its jus blabla

always ready to answer your question - but dear friend what i write

and say is practical experience never theory anymore

in love in GD

in all respect

your unknown virtual friend

michael bindel

Padma Menon <sudarshpa > wrote:

PranaamsMichael,

I cannot understand your message.In most cases discussions help you

to understand matters better. How can it be said to be senseless. If

I don't understand something I have to ask, otherwise how do I learn.

This is a paradox.Please explain.

pranaams peace & God bless may you have enough

Padma

Rudy Aguirre <rmarma (AT) umich (DOT) edu> wrote:

thanks>>> michael_bindel 09/09/05 3:14 PM >>>Dear virtual

friendsmay i in all due respect remember us what our beloved SADGURU

SRIRAMANA MAHARSHI saidDiscussions are shadowboxing of the mind and

contribute only to theenfolding of the Ego and are therefore

senselesswith all due respectyours sincerelymichael

Click here to donate to the

Hurricane Katrina relief

effort.**********************************************************Electronic

Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used

for urgent or sensitive issues.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Send

instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

September 13, 2005

thank you again for your clear and open and honest mail.

Please have patience - my asnwer comes soon.

In the meantime be assured of michaels readiness to be of assistance whenever you need it.

In love in GD

michaelPadma Menon <sudarshpa > wrote:

Pranaams Michael,