Explanation required - Explanation provided

[Guest guest]

Sardamma's words make a lot of sense. It would be of much help for

members in this group (Yes, including Xan, Tony and Richard) to read

Patanjali's Yogasutras (and if possible, Osho's commentary on it).

Patanjali has very clearly laid down the various stages one goes

through on the path of self-realisation... namely

1. Samprajnata samadhi (akin to the bliss of Zen Satori where mind is

still active). This is what Shardamma refers to as "blissful or

peaceful states of mind".

2. Asamprajnata samadhi (when there is cessation of all mental

activity/ conscious mind) which is still Sabeej (with seeds), that is

with unmanifested impressions/sanskaras still present in the

unconscious, and

3. Nirbeej (without seeds) samadhi, which is the ultimate stage where

all the unmanifested impressions/sanskaras have exhausted themselves

completely and one is totally free and would not be reborn again.

Remember, Ramana, Buddha and J Krishnamurthy also had to be born once.

Some were born Videhas as they had already achieved asamprajnata

samadhi in the previous life and hence had no attachment to the body.

But, still they had to work out their unmanifested impressions in this

life and only after that they were Muktas.

Most of us are here on this group because we have experienced the

bliss of samprajnata samadhi at least once. It would be a big mistake

if we confuse it with self-realisation.

Please understand Sardamma's statements in this context (of

Patanjali's Yogasutras). There is no point in deluding oneself.

Now, coming to the question on why some teachers say self-realisation

is "simple, as our essential true nature is here now and always has

been" as Xan has put it?

That is for one of the following 2 reasons:

1. Most teachers (including almost all of the neo-advaitic teachers)

have not advanced beyond the state of samprajnata samadhi. They feel

that's the ultimate bliss. Hence you would find them teaching their

disciples the same. You would invariably find them falling prey to

either sex, drug abuse, violence etc. at some stage or the other,

because they are not even Videha's... they still have to reach

cessation of the conscious mind (forget the unconscious mind).

Any serious sadhak should as soon as possible graduate away from such teachers.

2. Very few teachers (including someone like J Krishnamurthy) are born

Videha's... and hence have no memories of the previous life when they

did enormous Sadhana to move from samprajnata samadhi to asamprajnata

samadhi. For them, there is no attachment to the body at all... and

they don't remember any efforts they have taken to overcome

attachment to the body. Hence they teach their disciples that the

path is 'effortless'... which is far away from the fact (which they

have treaded themselves in the previous birth).

On the other hand, some teachers such as Buddha, Ramana, Nisargadatta

and Patanjali himself were not born Videhas. They first achieved the

Videha (sabeej asamprajnata samadhi) state and then the Nirbeej

samadhi stage in the same life. They, therefore had memories of the

practice/efforts (meditation/self-enquiry/bhakti) they went through

in the current life to get rid of the attachment to the body and

exhaust all desires. Hence, you will find their teachings propounding

'effort'.

The effort/practice is needed till one reaches the Videha

(asamprajnata samadhi) stage. Beyond that its effortless.

Now, its upto you which teachers you want to follow. Remember, its

easy to get trapped by the mind opting for the easier.... effortless

option... but question yourself... and find out at which stage you

are? and whats needed in your case?

I would be very glad if David Godman can comment on this post... He

would be the best person having spent so many years with people at

various stages from mere Satori to Videhas to Muktas.

Love

Sachin

NB. This also answers the previous dilemma the group had on the Sex

issue. Its simple... as long as you are still in the samprajnata

samadhi stage, you clearly have the sexual desire/craving. Anybody at

the asamprajnata samadhi (videha) stage would not feel the sexual urge

because he/she has no bodily attachment.

----

Xan

10/05/05 19:01:54

PracticeofSelfInquiry

[PracticeofSelfInquiry] Re: Explanation required

.Some few teachers make awakening in the Self sound very esoteric and

difficult. Others say it is simple, as our essential true nature is

here now and always has been.Which do you prefer to take to

heart?Xan```--- "Era" wrote:> > From No Mind I Am The Self. David

Godman > > The experience of the Self chapter 19 > > Q: Some

people claim to have had brief experiences of the Self. Is this very

common? > > Saradamma: Many people make such claims but I doubt if

more than a few of them have had a genuine experience of the Self. >

> Because most people have never had a direct experience of the Self

they think that blissful or peaceful states of mind are glimpses of

the Self. The only real experience of the Self occurs when the mind

enters the Heart. > > Imagine a cave with a fierce demon in it. If

you go in to investigate, one of three things may happen: the demon

may kill you, you may escape through the cave entrance, or you may

break your head on the cave roof while you are trying to escape and

die as a result. Taking the mind into the Heart-cave is a little like

this. Either the Self destroys the mind completely, or the mind enjoys

the bliss of the Self for a while before escaping to the brain again,

or the strain of the experience is too much for the body and death

results. > > The true experience of the Self only happens when the

mind is completely absent, either temporarily as in samadhi, or

permanently, as in Self-realization. > Both of these experiences are

very rare. > > It is very difficult to make the mind go into the

Heart. Mostly it is too afraid of its own death to even approach the

entrance. > > The mental experiences of peace, bliss and stillness,

which devotees claim to experience usually, take place outside the

Heart. They are all in the mind. People who think that these

experiences are the reality of the Self are only deluding

themselves.> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~> love, Era> > > from >

<http://santmat-meditation.net/yoga/realization.html>

[Guest guest]

, "Sachin Chavan"

 

<courtesy snip for lenghts>

 

> Love

> Sachin

>

> NB. This also answers the previous dilemma the group had on the Sex

issue.

> Its simple... as long as you are still in the samprajnata samadhi

stage, you

> clearly have the sexual desire/craving. Anybody at the asamprajnata

samadhi

> (videha) stage would not feel the sexual urge because he/she has no

bodily

> attachment.

>

>

 

 

all stages, states etc and their various categorisations and

classifications are enhancing the ilusion of a seperate entity - the

essence of maya - and its products, just like all kinds of siddhis

("spiritual powers").

though those disciplines are beneficial for mental and physical

health, they have nothing to do with real spiritual search for truth,

beyond providing "healthy mind in a healthy body".

real spiritual desire for truth can be satisfied only by incessant and

fearless self-inquiry. and the only true siddhi is "atma siddhi", the

knowledge/abidance in self/heart/truth.

 

yosy