Kundalini and consciousness

[Guest guest]

I don't believe the Kundalini Shakti is something different from

ourselves, something we can choose to disregard in favor of a "purer"

path ;-)

 

To me the Great Energy appears to be the basic building block of our

thoughts, feelings and physical bodies. The sensory input we receive

about the world around us and also the actual physical world around

us is the outcome of the hidden activity of Kundalini.

 

The thing is to realise that there is "something" in us constantly

observing this energy - and although we live through the sensations

and information the Shakti cooks up for us, there is a deeper level

within that is the silent witness, the Self which is unchanging and

still.

 

(whereas the energy is constantly shapeshifting and morphing into new

patterns of thought, feeling and action)

 

While the Kundalini remains dormant, we can't really see these dual

aspects of the One reality within ourselves but rather live in a

state in which we completely identify with whatever mental, emotional

or physical image the energy creates. Once the Shakti is set into

motion however, these images are progressively dissolved and

eventually the pure state of consciousness or the "Self" emerges as

the silent foundation or screen on which the energy just plays out

its different patterns.

 

Seen from that perspective, I certainly believe the awakening of the

Kundalini to be an important and necessary step on our spiritual

journey through life...

 

Michael (yet another one ;-) )

[Guest guest]

, Yetibaba@a... wrote:

>

> I don't believe the Kundalini Shakti is something different from

ourselves,

> something we can choose to disregard in favor of a "purer" path ;-)

>

> To me the Great Energy appears to be the basic building block of

our

> thoughts, feelings and physical bodies. The sensory input we

receive about the world

> around us and also the actual physical world around us is the

outcome of

> the hidden activity of Kundalini.

>

> The thing is to realise that there is "something" in us

constantly observing

> this energy - and although we live through the sensations and

information

> the Shakti cooks up for us, there is a deeper level within that

is the silent

> witness, the Self which is unchanging and still.

>

> (whereas the energy is constantly shapeshifting and morphing into

new

> patterns of thought, feeling and action)

>

> While the Kundalini remains dormant, we can't really see these

dual aspects

> of the One reality within ourselves but rather live in a state in

which we

> completely identify with whatever mental, emotional or physical

image the

> energy creates. Once the Shakti is set into motion however, these

images are

> progressively dissolved and eventually the pure state of

consciousness or the

> "Self" emerges as the silent foundation or screen on which the

energy just plays

> out its different patterns.

>

> Seen from that perspective, I certainly believe the awakening of

the

> Kundalini to be an important and necessary step on our spiritual

journey through

> life...

>

> Michael (yet another one ;-) )

 

Namaste,IMHO,

 

"Sri Ramana said; The Self is reached by the search for the origin

of the ego and by diving into the Heart. That is the direct method

of Self-Realisation. One who adopts it need not worry about nadis,

the brain centre-sahasrara, the sushumma, the paranadi, the

kundalini, pranayama or the six centres-cakras." Be as you are..p

142.

 

It follows on from this that the samadhi of the sahasrara is a

savikalpa samadhi at best, and is in the world of experience and

illusion. In other words it is likely an attachment to illusion in

the form of ecstasy and bliss. All of this being an impediment and

not resulting in Moksha.

 

The word Sakti is the Saguna Brahman the energy is actually called

Prana, in all its modes. Within illusion there is only prana and

karma, 'God/Goddess' in any form never interferes and is always ever

the witness or Sakshin.

 

One has to cleanse one's own Buddhi, the mind sometimes does this

perceptibly and sometimes imperceptibly. A purified mind is true

Kundalini not experiencing ecstasies of lower samadhis. Kundalini or

purified mind will only ever rise to the level of awareness of the

participant, and in most cases the prana returns to its natural

level of action.

 

As the Buddha said the last impediment is Bliss.....ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

, Yetibaba@a... wrote:

>

> I don't believe the Kundalini Shakti is something different from

ourselves,

> something we can choose to disregard in favor of a "purer" path ;-)

>

> To me the Great Energy appears to be the basic building block of

our

> thoughts, feelings and physical bodies. The sensory input we

receive about the world

> around us and also the actual physical world around us is the

outcome of

> the hidden activity of Kundalini.

>

> The thing is to realise that there is "something" in us constantly

observing

> this energy - and although we live through the sensations and

information

> the Shakti cooks up for us, there is a deeper level within that is

the silent

> witness, the Self which is unchanging and still.

>

> (whereas the energy is constantly shapeshifting and morphing into

new

> patterns of thought, feeling and action)

>

> While the Kundalini remains dormant, we can't really see these dual

aspects

> of the One reality within ourselves but rather live in a state in

which we

> completely identify with whatever mental, emotional or physical

image the

> energy creates. Once the Shakti is set into motion however, these

images are

> progressively dissolved and eventually the pure state of

consciousness or the

> "Self" emerges as the silent foundation or screen on which the

energy just plays

> out its different patterns.

>

> Seen from that perspective, I certainly believe the awakening of

the

> Kundalini

 

 

whatever apparent form it may take...

 

> to be an important and necessary step on

> our spiritual journey through

> life...

>

> Michael (yet another one ;-) )

 

 

right, my friend.

 

_()_

yosy

[Guest guest]

"Namaste,IMHO,"Sri Ramana said; The Self is reached by the search for

the origin of the ego and by diving into the Heart. That is the

direct method of Self-Realisation. One who adopts it need not worry

about nadis, the brain centre-sahasrara, the sushumma, the paranadi,

the kundalini, pranayama or the six centres-cakras." Be as you are..p

142.It follows on from this that the samadhi of the sahasrara is a

savikalpa samadhi at best, and is in the world of experience and

illusion. In other words it is likely an attachment to illusion in

the form of ecstasy and bliss. All of this being an impediment and

not resulting in Moksha.The word Sakti is the Saguna Brahman the

energy is actually called Prana, in all its modes. Within illusion

there is only prana and karma, 'God/Goddess' in any form never

interferes and is always ever the witness or Sakshin.One has to

cleanse one's own Buddhi, the mind sometimes does this perceptibly

and sometimes imperceptibly. A purified mind is true Kundalini not

experiencing ecstasies of lower samadhis. Kundalini or purified mind

will only ever rise to the level of awareness of the participant, and

in most cases the prana returns to its natural level of action.As the

Buddha said the last impediment is Bliss.....ONS...Tony."

 

 

=================================================================================

 

 

Hello!

 

The direct method to Self-Realisation appears to be deceptively

simple, but in practice, at least to me, there are some aspects that

render it very difficult indeed!

 

As you say, the Buddhi or inner mind-space needs to be purified in

order for the Self to cast off the shackles of all the patterns and

images that create the illusion of separateness and bind it into

identifying with matter.

 

For stubborn and quite deluded and spiritually blind persons like

myself however, no amount of asking myself "who am I" could have

removed all those blinders and gross misperceptions !

 

So, although I never went looking for it, the awakened Kundalini

Shakti came to me and began doing the job for me instead - and I can

affirm with some certainty that whatever insight into the nature of

reality, the Self and such that I may have, is due mainly - or even

exclusively - to her activity over the years.

 

And this really is the great thing about of the awakened Shakti IMO,

it slowly but gradually -and above all, automatically - dissolves the

ego-structure and reveals the Self that was always there, but remained

hidden.

 

It also seems to open one up to an intuitive and direct understanding

of how "things really are" and this is very comforting and valuable.

 

I also do believe Kundalini-awakening is the way Nature has created

for humans to experience spiritual evolution without too much

meddling and interfering on the part of the human him/herself.

 

One could even argue that the Shakti will eventually awaken in each

and every one of us when the time is right - and that indeed this is

a necessary step in evolution for a complete liberation from the

prison of matter. (Some mystical traditions claim this)

 

 

Superficially there may appear to be a contradiction to the pure

Advaitin teaching of Sri Ramana, but in reality it isn't so, IMHO.

 

Ramana goes straight to the point and declares: we are all the eternal

Self - and the world and our usual self-concepts are of impermanent

and illusional nature, based on the working of the mind.

 

This isn't so hard to grasp conceptionally, but in practice,

overcoming the inherent "non-spiritualness" of body and mind in order

to really live in the Self isn't quite so easy.

 

( LOL! I know a little bit about all of that ;-) - and all the ascetic

tradtions of the world throughout history bear witness of this

struggle to overcome the patterns and limitations within ourselves.

 

One could perhaps say that by awakening the Kundalini, Nature provides

us with the necassary tool to understand and purify ourselves

sufficiently for Self-Knowledge.

 

 

Anyway, the "preoccupation" with chakras and nadis and so on, also

seem to happen spontaneously as the kundalini begins to move around.

I for myself just see it as a kind of expanded self-knowledge and

exploration in order to better understand the physical and

psychological vehicles we are bound to within manifest reality.

Interesting and useful, but in the end it's still just the play of

energy...

 

It's a bit like having an old beat up car and getting to work on it,

taking it apart, finding out the carburettors need cleaning and the

oil has to be changed making sure there's gas in the tank and

learning all about ignition points etc.

 

(Now that's a stupid and not very elegant analogy, I know...LOL ;-)

 

The secondary aspects such as bliss ( more like loads and loads of

problems in my case LOL!), siddhis and whatever, are just that,

phenomena, created by the Shakti, just like hunger or watching a

sunset or scratching the back of the cat. Nothing extraordinary, but

rather just another facette of life and its endless possibilities.

 

(Isn't it always the mind with its preconceived notions that keeps

telling us "This is spiritual and that is not", "This is what book

"x" or guru "y" says is right, so everything else is somehow "not

right" etc. - when in fact EVERYTHING has its place and is basically

perfectly alright once the mind just shuts up ;-) )

 

Indeed it seems to me as if the end result and the real goal of the

awakened Kundalini is the state where Self just sits quietly

observing all manifestations and phenomena and clearly sensing

everything to be just a projection out of Itself.

 

Maybe - as you have hinted at before in statements such as " Nothing

ever happened" - there are indeed further and deeper states.

 

Not just the "normal" (LOL!!) Samadhi of absolutely pure

consciousness, without any sensation of manifestation/energy/shakti

whatsoever - but rather a state in which really EVERYTHING turns

out to be not only an illusion (as in a table seeming to be a solid

object, but in reality being particles of energy swirling about in

what is largely emptiness in time/space) - but actually never having

even APPEARED to exist.

 

It boggles the mind - and although I can somehow picture that state

intellectually and intuitively, it still doesn't really make sense to

me. However seeing that humans are limited in perception by design, it

is well conceivable that such a consciousness may truly be the real

end of all and the ultimate and final goal...

 

Who can really tell? Maybe it's best just to wait and find out?

 

 

Regards

 

Michael

[Guest guest]

, Yetibaba@a... wrote:

>

> "Namaste,IMHO,

>

> "Sri Ramana said; The Self is reached by the search for the

origin

> of the ego and by diving into the Heart. That is the direct

method

> of Self-Realisation. One who adopts it need not worry about

nadis,

> the brain centre-sahasrara, the sushumma, the paranadi, the

> kundalini, pranayama or the six centres-cakras." Be as you are..p

> 142.

>

> It follows on from this that the samadhi of the sahasrara is a

> savikalpa samadhi at best, and is in the world of experience and

> illusion. In other words it is likely an attachment to illusion

in

> the form of ecstasy and bliss. All of this being an impediment

and

> not resulting in Moksha.

>

> The word Sakti is the Saguna Brahman the energy is actually

called

> Prana, in all its modes. Within illusion there is only prana and

> karma, 'God/Goddess' in any form never interferes and is always

ever

> the witness or Sakshin.

>

> One has to cleanse one's own Buddhi, the mind sometimes does this

> perceptibly and sometimes imperceptibly. A purified mind is true

> Kundalini not experiencing ecstasies of lower samadhis. Kundalini

or

> purified mind will only ever rise to the level of awareness of

the

> participant, and in most cases the prana returns to its natural

> level of action.

>

> As the Buddha said the last impediment is Bliss.....ONS...Tony."

>

>

>

=====================================================================

=========

> ===

>

>

> Hello!

>

> The direct method to Self-Realisation appears to be deceptively

simple, but

> in practice, at least to me, there are some aspects that render

it very

> difficult indeed!

>

> As you say, the Buddhi or inner mind-space needs to be purified in

order for

> the Self to cast off the shackles of all the patterns and images

that create

> the illusion of separateness and bind it into identifying with

matter.

>

> For stubborn and quite deluded and spiritually blind persons like

myself

> however, no amount of asking myself "who am I" could have removed

all those

> blinders and gross misperceptions !

>

> So, although I never went looking for it, the awakened Kundalini

Shakti came

> to me and began doing the job for me instead - and I can affirm

with some

> certainty that whatever insight into the nature of reality, the

Self and such

> that I may have, is due mainly - or even exclusively - to her

activity over

> the years.

>

> And this really is the great thing about of the awakened Shakti

IMO, it

> slowly but gradually -and above all, automatically - dissolves

the ego-structure

> and reveals the Self that was always there, but remained hidden.

>

> It also seems to open one up to an intuitive and direct

understanding of how

> "things really are" and this is very comforting and valuable.

>

> I also do believe Kundalini-awakening is the way Nature has

created for

> humans to experience spiritual evolution without too much

meddling and

> interfering on the part of the human him/herself.

>

> One could even argue that the Shakti will eventually awaken in

each and

> every one of us when the time is right - and that indeed this is

a necessary

> step in evolution for a complete liberation from the prison of

matter. (Some

> mystical traditions claim this)

>

>

> Superficially there may appear to be a contradiction to the pure

Advaitin

> teaching of Sri Ramana, but in reality it isn't so, IMHO.

>

> Ramana goes straight to the point and declares: we are all the

eternal Self

> - and the world and our usual self-concepts are of impermanent

and

> illusional nature, based on the working of the mind.

>

> This isn't so hard to grasp conceptionally, but in practice,

overcoming the

> inherent "non-spiritualness" of body and mind in order to really

live in the

> Self isn't quite so easy.

>

> ( LOL! I know a little bit about all of that ;-) - and all the

ascetic

> tradtions of the world throughout history bear witness of this

struggle to

> overcome the patterns and limitations within ourselves.

>

> One could perhaps say that by awakening the Kundalini, Nature

provides us

> with the necassary tool to understand and purify ourselves

sufficiently for

> Self-Knowledge.

>

>

>

> Anyway, the "preoccupation" with chakras and nadis and so on,

also seem to

> happen spontaneously as the kundalini begins to move around. I

for myself just

> see it as a kind of expanded self-knowledge and exploration in

order to

> better understand the physical and psychological vehicles we are

bound to within

> manifest reality. Interesting and useful, but in the end it's

still just the

> play of energy...

>

> It's a bit like having an old beat up car and getting to work on

it, taking

> it apart, finding out the carburettors need cleaning and the oil

has to be

> changed making sure there's gas in the tank and learning all about

ignition

> points etc.

>

> (Now that's a stupid and not very elegant analogy, I know...LOL ;-

)

>

>

> The secondary aspects such as bliss ( more like loads and loads of

problems

> in my case LOL!), siddhis and whatever, are just that, phenomena,

created by

> the Shakti, just like hunger or watching a sunset or scratching

the back of

> the cat. Nothing extraordinary, but rather just another facette of

life and

> its endless possibilities.

>

> (Isn't it always the mind with its preconceived notions that keeps

telling

> us "This is spiritual and that is not", "This is what book "x" or

guru "y" says

> is right, so everything else is somehow "not right" etc. - when

in fact

> EVERYTHING has its place and is basically perfectly alright once

the mind just

> shuts up ;-) )

>

> Indeed it seems to me as if the end result and the real goal of

the awakened

> Kundalini is the state where Self just sits quietly observing all

> manifestations and phenomena and clearly sensing everything to be

just a projection out

> of Itself.

>

> Maybe - as you have hinted at before in statements such as "

Nothing ever

> happened" - there are indeed further and deeper states.

>

> Not just the "normal" (LOL!!) Samadhi of absolutely pure

consciousness,

> without any sensation of manifestation/energy/shakti whatsoever -

but rather a

> state in which really EVERYTHING turns out to be not only an

illusion (as in a

> table seeming to be a solid object, but in reality being

particles of energy

> swirling about in what is largely emptiness in time/space) - but

actually

> never having even APPEARED to exist.

>

> It boggles the mind - and although I can somehow picture that

state

> intellectually and intuitively, it still doesn't really make sense

to me. However

> seeing that humans are limited in perception by design, it is

well conceivable

> that such a consciousness may truly be the real end of all and

the ultimate

> and final goal...

>

> Who can really tell? Maybe it's best just to wait and find out?

>

>

> Regards

>

> Michael

 

Namaste M,

 

As you notice I don't deny Kundalini but I do take to task the term

and the interpretation that's all.

 

For me Sakti is the Saguna Brahman and her power is Prana, moved by

karma. So these movements in the nadis are actually Prana not Sakti,

per se, for She/Sakti is the witness or Sakshin.

 

I have noticed an undue attachment and fascination with 'Kundalini'

and this is due in part to the fascination of energy by the Ego.

 

People like the idea of experiencing Realisation and the way there;

it is much more fun than anything else. They can measure their

progress so to speak and 'own' their experiences in descending and

ascending orders.

 

What people think is the Sakti working in them is actually their

inner mind cleansing the kosas, with prana. Some of it is dramatic

and some isn't. 'God' in any description is a witness to 'creation'

so doesn't partake, in K rising or anything else. K rising is due to

Prarabda Karma only, and is the person's own mind.

 

As is evidenced by Ramana, Lakshmana Swami, Sri Sarada Devi and

others this can be done imperceptibly by Japa and Self

Enquiry, 'experiencing' K isn't necessary and doesn't actually

result in Moksha anyway.

 

As you say everything is illusion and I am a believer in Ajati-Vada

but as Sankara says, it is real enough whilst one is in it.

 

Who am I ? is an easy sadhana but it must be accompanied with a

purification of the Buddhi, not just verbal non dualism. Who am I is

searching for a condition or feeling not an answer.

 

In the end result K Is the mind so is Illusion, and the mother of

delusion, for nothing ever really happened at all.........ONS..Tony.