The Dalai Lama talks Turkey

[Guest guest]

, zen2wrk@a... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 11/24/2005 4:13:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

> aoclery writes:

>

> I am not saying that meat eaters aren't on the path, what I am

> saying is that it is against Ahimsa and Daya for animals,

therefore

> is a desire samskara to be purified.

>

> The DL may or may not be more advanced than I am, but in the end

we

> still have to purify the Buddhi.

>

>

>

> What is against ahimsa is to create suffering for others, animal

or human.

> The Jains understand and wisely teach this, and most of course,

as you would

> suggest, choose not to eat meat in order to avoid that added

> complication...but they are not absolutists, they know that at

times, regrettably, one has to

> do things in order to choose a path that provides for survival,

health, and

> balance. If your crops are all going to be destroyed by locusts,

despite

> Ahimsa, the Jains do not believe in infinite mercy toward the

locusts, but will

> light fires to ward them off and yes, to kill them. During times

of famine,

> Jains will also even consume locusts, if need be to survive.

They realize

> that each day, tiny insects and organisms are destroyed just by

their act of

> breathing, walking and other activities. They understand that to

exist, a

> larger creature necessarily is imperfect and will harm, through

no voluntary

> action untold millions of lesser creatures. We should not

increase the suffering

> of other beings, nor should we unduly produce suffering in other

family

> members or ourselves. That too, violates Ahimsa. We cannot

consider ourselves

> enlightened beings if we protect all other living things but

punish ourselves.

>

> Purification? That is a loaded concept, because it implies that

we are

> somehow contaminated to begin with. I would prefer to think that

we arrive at a

> state of clear headed, dispassionate enlightenment that also has

room for

> love, mercy, joy and bliss. If we take all the pleasures out of

our heaven, I

> believe that we can safely rename it "Hell."

>

> Cheers,

>

> ZB

 

Namaste,

 

I'm not Jain although I did study them at university. We can only do

our best....We are contaminated with samskaras.Desire and lack of

awareness which in many cases is just ego of

desire.........ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/2005 6:44:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, aoclery writes:

We are contaminated with samskaras.Desire and lack of awareness which

in many cases is just ego of desire.......

This is not a "contamination," Tony, this is the spark that ignites

the fuel that burns in the engines of our very Dharma. We burn this,

we test this, we are challenged by this in order to find the truth, to

go beyond our seeming limitations and to grow spiritually. If we were

all hatched fully-achieved into the world like some sort of cosmic

turkey of grace, then we would need do nothing at all, nor would we

understand anything from the level of being -- all would be in a

static state of endless bliss...and for turkeys, this may in fact be

their reality, so much so that their deaths in honor of our Pilgrim

holidays may not bother them at all. Perhaps they are the fully

realized ones, after all.

Did you know that a turkey lived for almost a year after its head had

been removed in an accident, and the owner fed the bird via the neck

with a syringe of broth? Is that unbelievable? What does that teach

us? Well, it suggests that turkeys do not need much intellect to

function, and that maybe consciousness resides in places in the body

other than in the brain.

I have often suspected as much from my conversations with certain

conservative political and religious types, I am afraid.

Cheers,

Zenbob

PS, I am not a farmer, Tony. I have a small 10 acre ranch, and none

of the animals on it are raised for food. They are raised for fleece,

never harmed. Oh, I do have chickens, but I only use their unborn

innocent potential children for food, and then, I swear, only as

necessary meal ingredients and never to mock their aspirations of

Poultry Motherhood.

ZB

Change Your Life.... www.igonet.com/zencommunications

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/2005 7:40:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, baba108 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com writes:

who are we to judge anybodya young man once urinated on Bhagavan

Ramana MaharshiBhagavan said not one wordMay God Grant Me such

GraceJai BhagavanLove baba

Ah, so very true! Of course, Bhagavan may merely have been speechless

with shock, as even someone as verbose as I would be challenged to

find my tongue at a moment such as that. Maybe he discussed it the

next day?

OM,

Peace,

Zenbob

Change Your Life.... www.igonet.com/zencommunications

[Guest guest]

That may all be true an noble.. but the assertion that a person > who

eats meat cannot be enlightened does not follow. > > > > Sam > >

Namaste, > > Sure it does, it shows a violation of Ahimsa and no

Daya or > compassion for the animals etc. > > The only person who

can eat meat, in that context, is one who is > already Realised and

just eats whatever is put in his bowl, with no > desire/attachment

or a lack of awareness of the fact the animal was > tortured and

killed. > > I'm not saying all who eat meat aren't on the path, I'm

just saying > they haven't developed Daya as yet, which is a

requirement for > Moksha...Tony. > Jayas tu paandu pudarnam,

yashaam pakshe Janardhanah ....

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[Guest guest]

Should a person stranded on an > island never eat meat to survive

because they have once chosen to not eat > meat for spiritual

reasons? What if the life of a child or children were at > stake?

> > We have a name for people who must be totally 100% consistent

under all > times and conditions. Oh, and it's not "enlightened

being," it's "foolish." > > Zenbob Namaste, It is difficult to

talk to a farmer and meat eater about this as we have found before.

A person an a desert island is just a 'red herring' the circumstances

are different. Some primitive humans kill and eat meat according to

custom, to survive...I know that. I have also gleaned from the

Vedanta that one desire only is enough to prevent Moksha. The Buddhi

has to be purified, we are all working on

it. I am not saying that meat eaters aren't on the path, what I am

saying is that it is against Ahimsa and Daya for animals, therefore

is a desire samskara to be purified. The DL may or may not be more

advanced than I am, but in the end we still have to purify the

Buddhi. http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/AVEGETARIANandAHIMSA.htm

ONS...Tony. Jayas tu paandu pudarnam, yashaam pakshe Janardhanah

.....

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[Guest guest]

Sri Janaardana Kalianandaswami wrote:

Hari Om

as a strict vegetarian I find that judging anyone on their diet

is completely revolting

what Lord Buddha of Compassion eats is His business and none of mine

the first Buddha died from eating rotten pork

who are we to judge anybody

a young man once urinated on Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi

Bhagavan said not one word

I don't know that story. Could you please

give the source? There is a story of thieves breaking into Ramanashram.

Sri Ramana got some blows as well with sticks on his legs. Later he

said in humor that he had been paid proper respect using the term with

the double meaning. Puja (worship) in Hindi can have a double meaning

as well depending on the context of the situation. Now what is this

story of someone urinating on Sri Ramana's legs. I have not heard this

story at all. Please do relate that and the source. Thanks.

Love to all

Harsha

May God

Grant Me such Grace

Jai Bhagavan

Love baba

[Guest guest]

Sri Janaardana Kalianandaswami wrote:

Hari Om

as a strict vegetarian I find that judging anyone on their diet

is completely revolting

what Lord Buddha of Compassion eats is His business and none of mine

the first Buddha died from eating rotten pork

That regards a metaphor on the dissolution

of afflictions (physical pain the last one)

and isn't to be taken literally.

who are we to judge anybody

There are no others.

a young man once urinated on Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi

Bhagavan said not one word

Urine happens to be sterile until it has

left the bladder.

In that sense it might be cleaner than the water from

many rivers.

May God Grant Me such Grace

Jai Bhagavan

Love baba

It's easy, don't blame and there's nothing

to forgive.

When that fails, remember "there are no others".

Jan

[Guest guest]

panamavolcan wrote:

real

Dear Jan,

Gosh your format or the format is really messed up had to go for miles to read your post..

Most posts written from the interface

get messy as the

automatic text wrap function is used, and replying to them, the

formatting only gets messier. Please get knowledgeable in these

elementary matters.

Jan waht you say makes no sense to me at all..yes everything including

this body is not real and of course if you just stop eating the not

real body will die and your point is..

my point simply is the idea that you can get there from here when your already there??

One consequence of the axiom that the mind

& body are unreal is

that whatever such an unreal structure produces, is unreal too.

That was the point, perhaps it's clearer now.

Jan

Randy