Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Namaste, Some say it doesn't matter what we eat. However does the cruelty of the slaughterhouse and the terror of the animal matter??..This is the cognitive disfunction of many on the spiritual path. Their level of awareness through purification of the vijnanamayakosa is not high enough. This ability of the human mind to filter out this bad information about death, slaughter and cruelty in favour of satisfying an eogistic desire to suage one's palate and addiction is nothin short of amazing. I don't extend this to the non spiritual seekers as they don't pretend or know to be any better...........ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Namaste, Yes Tony, now here's something to ponder about what about cruelty of other human beings that are on a different spiritual path that you may find distasteful..what kind of harm is done there when a person gives verbal violence to another? Just something to think about.. Blessings Randy , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > > Namaste, > > Some say it doesn't matter what we eat. However does the cruelty of > the slaughterhouse and the terror of the animal matter??..This is the > cognitive disfunction of many on the spiritual path. Their level of > awareness through purification of the vijnanamayakosa is not high > enough. This ability of the human mind to filter out this bad > information about death, slaughter and cruelty in favour of satisfying > an eogistic desire to suage one's palate and addiction is nothin short > of amazing. > > I don't extend this to the non spiritual seekers as they don't pretend > or know to be any better...........ONS..Tony. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 , "panamavolcan" <panamavolcan> wrote: > > Namaste, > > Yes Tony, now here's something to ponder about what about cruelty of > other human beings that are on a different spiritual path that you > may find distasteful..what kind of harm is done there when a person > gives verbal violence to another? Just something to think about.. > Blessings > Randy Namaste, Verbal violence is hardly the slaughterhouse and mostly only offends people's egos and false images of themselves.........Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Tony, I agree to disagree words are very powerful and if you beleive in karma will add up much karma to you..there are many kinds of slaughterhouse's Tony... Blessings Randy , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > > , "panamavolcan" > <panamavolcan> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > Yes Tony, now here's something to ponder about what about cruelty of > > other human beings that are on a different spiritual path that you > > may find distasteful..what kind of harm is done there when a person > > gives verbal violence to another? Just something to think about.. > > Blessings > > Randy > > Namaste, > > Verbal violence is hardly the slaughterhouse and mostly only offends > people's egos and false images of themselves.........> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > > , "panamavolcan" > <panamavolcan> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > Yes Tony, now here's something to ponder about what about cruelty of > > other human beings that are on a different spiritual path that you > > may find distasteful..what kind of harm is done there when a person > > gives verbal violence to another? Just something to think about.. > > Blessings > > Randy > > Namaste, > > Verbal violence is hardly the slaughterhouse and mostly only offends > people's egos and false images of themselves.........Tony Tony, please don't dismiss verbal violence as offending mostly only the ego. In a Domestic Violence situation, verbal violence is considered mental and emotional abuse, creating long-term problems in one's life. It literally breaks the spirit. I realize we aren't talking about a DV situation here, but violence is violence. There is no good and bad violence, which you appear to be stating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 , "panamavolcan" <panamavolcan> wrote: > > > Tony, > > I agree to disagree words are very powerful and if you beleive in > karma will add up much karma to you..there are many kinds of > slaughterhouse's Tony... > Blessings > Randy Cognitive dissonance/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 , "Tg" <leteegee@g...> wrote: > > , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> > wrote: > > > > , "panamavolcan" > > <panamavolcan> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > Yes Tony, now here's something to ponder about what about > cruelty of > > > other human beings that are on a different spiritual path that > you > > > may find distasteful..what kind of harm is done there when a > person > > > gives verbal violence to another? Just something to think about.. > > > Blessings > > > Randy > > > > Namaste, > > > > Verbal violence is hardly the slaughterhouse and mostly only > offends > > people's egos and false images of themselves.........Tony > > > Tony, please don't dismiss verbal violence as offending > mostly only the ego. In a Domestic Violence situation, > verbal violence is considered mental and emotional abuse, > creating long-term problems in one's life. It literally > breaks the spirit. > > I realize we aren't talking about a DV situation here, > but violence is violence. There is no good and bad > violence, which you appear to be stating. Namaste Yes my response was not explained deep enough. However in this debate a human animal may need to think of who the insults and verbal abuse are happening to. Whereas to a helpless, innocent animal the cruelty, preparation and final murder are horrendous. There is no way out for the animal it cant say 'Who am I'? and to whom is this abuse happening.....ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 > > Tony, > > > > I agree to disagree words are very powerful and if you beleive in > > karma will add up much karma to you..there are many kinds of > > slaughterhouse's Tony... > > Blessings > > Randy > > Cognitive dissonance/ <--associated to your violence and misplaced anger toward Sai.. or Sai Baba folowers, Tony. Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 , "Era" <n0ndual@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Tony, > > > > > > I agree to disagree words are very powerful and if you beleive in > > > karma will add up much karma to you..there are many kinds of > > > slaughterhouse's Tony... > > > Blessings > > > Randy > > > > Cognitive dissonance/ <--associated to your violence and misplaced anger toward Sai.. or Sai Baba folowers, Tony. > > Era > Namaste, No actually most sb devotees are vegetarians, sb insists on it and quite devout, they are just conned by sb that's all. There are a few lunatics that have learned to type and use the net, and this gives a general appearance when it isn't. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy and selfishness of believing violence is fine, as long as one has somebody else to dirty their hands..........ONS...Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2005 Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 > > > > Tony, > > > > > > > > I agree to disagree words are very powerful and if you beleive > in > > > > karma will add up much karma to you..there are many kinds of > > > > slaughterhouse's Tony... > > > > Blessings > > > > Randy > > > > > > Cognitive dissonance/ <--associated to your violence and > misplaced anger toward Sai.. or Sai Baba folowers, Tony. > > > > Era > > > Namaste, > > No actually most sb devotees are vegetarians, sb insists on it and > quite devout, they are just conned by sb that's all. There are a few > lunatics that have learned to type and use the net, and this gives a > general appearance when it isn't. > > I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy and selfishness of believing > violence is fine, as long as one has somebody else to dirty their > hands..........ONS...Tony +++ Tony what about someone getting there own hands dirty by using violent words towards another that does not beleve as you do? This to me is much more of a violent act than eating meat.. Millions have died a terrible death just because of words.. Blessings Randy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2005 Report Share Posted November 27, 2005 My site; advaitajnana Namaste, I am still waiting for the debaters from the / I can't rely on my reply for I was moderated, a weak act, for upsetting the choir. It seems that's what they are, for they obviously don't want to debate me personally, but are singing to the other choir members in the congregation. This is also the ego talking in the defence of cognitive dissonance re meat eating and being on the spiritual path. I don't know whether it is the acclaim of the audience they want or to impress harsha, but it isn't to answer me. I will state again that I am only talking about self proclaimed spiritual seekers not the ordinary people or primitives. They know no better and haven't read about Ahimsa etc. THEY ARE NOT HYPOCRITES. Zenbob with his verbal non dualism, vndism, is doing a good job of mental gymnastics again, mixing his apples and oranges all up to preserve his desire to eat meat and ignore the suffering, of the animal. Lastly I have never seen a post where Ramana or any of his known devotees extolled the eating of meat or the cruelty involved. Ramana was known to protect his ashram pets from the attacks of other animals but never with violence as such. > , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> > wrote: > > Namaste, > > Some say it doesn't matter what we eat. However does the cruelty of > the slaughterhouse and the terror of the animal matter??..This is the > cognitive disfunction of many on the spiritual path. Their level of > awareness through purification of the vijnanamayakosa is not high > enough. This ability of the human mind to filter out this bad > information about death, slaughter and cruelty in favour of satisfying > an eogistic desire to suage one's palate and addiction is nothing > short > of amazing. > > I don't extend this to the non spiritual seekers as they don't pretend > or know to be any better...........ONS..Tony. > > --- End forwarded message --- > , Harsha wrote: > > *Tony, Tony, Tony. The food issue is a tough issue and we should drop > it. We all know what we know and we feel what we feel and that's how it > is. There is no point in justifying views or attacking those of others > by calling one of their koshas impure and all that because of their > diet. Ultimately it is an issue of control. We cannot control the > preferences and conditioning of others. We see the conditioning of > others through our own conditioning and we cannot even change our Namaste, Very good Harsha!!!I don't regard myself as having a completely purified vijnanamayakosa, far from it. I don't condemn people for eating meat if that is their level of understanding and they claim no Daya or compassion. I don't condemn the ordinary person or the primitives. I have just wondered what the psychological cause was of this obvious and fatal disconnect. I have finally come to the conclusion it is moved by the same conditioning as the 'True Believer Sydndrome' and 'Cognitive Dissonance'. As Zenbob pointed out Hitler suffered from it. They don't fit exactly perhaps a psychologist can give me an explanation of this amazing displacement. I would prefer not to say that spiritual meat eaters suffered from the 'Hitler Sydnrome', a condition of denial and vicarious violence. I was interested in the debate and how the Ego handles it; it is a window into the mind. As you say a food fight inevitably ends up like this for people do not want to discuss their failings or wanton desires. The ego rationalises everything away but the death agony and scream of an innocent animal..........ONS..Tony. http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/AVEGETARIANandAHIMSA.htm I WAS CENSORED FOR THIS RESPONSE/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2005 Report Share Posted November 28, 2005 , "Tony OClery" <aoclery> wrote: > > My site; > > > advaitajnana > > Namaste, > > I am still waiting for the debaters from the > > / > > I can't rely on my reply for I was moderated, a weak act, for > upsetting the choir. It seems that's what they are, for they > obviously don't want to debate me personally, but are singing to the > other choir members in the congregation. This is also the ego > talking in the defence of cognitive dissonance re meat eating and > being on the spiritual path. I don't know whether it is the acclaim > of the audience they want or to impress harsha, but it isn't to > answer me. > > I will state again that I am only talking about self proclaimed > spiritual seekers not the ordinary people or primitives. They know > no better and haven't read about Ahimsa etc. THEY ARE NOT > HYPOCRITES. > > Zenbob with his verbal non dualism, vndism, is doing a good job of > mental gymnastics again, mixing his apples and oranges all up to > preserve his desire to eat meat and ignore the suffering, of the > animal. > > Lastly I have never seen a post where Ramana or any of his known > devotees extolled the eating of meat or the cruelty involved. Ramana > was known to protect his ashram pets from the attacks of other > animals but never with violence as such. > > > > > , "Tony OClery" > <aoclery> > > wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > Some say it doesn't matter what we eat. However does the cruelty > of > > the slaughterhouse and the terror of the animal matter??..This is > the > > cognitive disfunction of many on the spiritual path. Their level > of > > awareness through purification of the vijnanamayakosa is not high > > enough. This ability of the human mind to filter out this bad > > information about death, slaughter and cruelty in favour of > satisfying > > an eogistic desire to suage one's palate and addiction is nothing > > short > > of amazing. > > > > I don't extend this to the non spiritual seekers as they don't > pretend > > or know to be any better...........ONS..Tony. > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > , Harsha wrote: > > > > *Tony, Tony, Tony. The food issue is a tough issue and we should > drop > > it. We all know what we know and we feel what we feel and that's > how it > > is. There is no point in justifying views or attacking those of > others > > by calling one of their koshas impure and all that because of > their > > diet. Ultimately it is an issue of control. We cannot control the > > preferences and conditioning of others. We see the conditioning of > > others through our own conditioning and we cannot even change our > > Namaste, > > Very good Harsha!!!I don't regard myself as having a completely > purified vijnanamayakosa, far from it. I don't condemn people for > eating meat if that is their level of understanding and they claim > no Daya or compassion. I don't condemn the ordinary person or the > primitives. > > I have just wondered what the psychological cause was of this > obvious and fatal disconnect. I have finally come to the conclusion > it is moved by the same conditioning as the 'True Believer > Sydndrome' and 'Cognitive Dissonance'. As Zenbob pointed out Hitler > suffered from it. They don't fit exactly perhaps a psychologist can > give me an explanation of this amazing displacement. I would prefer > not to say that spiritual meat eaters suffered from the 'Hitler > Sydnrome', a condition of denial and vicarious violence. > > I was interested in the debate and how the Ego handles it; it is a > window into the mind. As you say a food fight inevitably ends up > like this for people do not want to discuss their failings or wanton > desires. The ego rationalises everything away but the death agony > and scream of an innocent animal..........ONS..Tony. > http://www.geocities.com/aoclery/AVEGETARIANandAHIMSA.htm > > I WAS CENSORED FOR THIS RESPONSE/ > what i have understood tony, from my deep love for ramana, is that what matters is to be here. all the things that have kept me from being fully present have been my judgements about how things, others and myself should be. even and especially all of my judgements about enlightenment. when all that falls away what becomes clear is the Heart, ever beating, offering compassion, not to some, but to all. compassion is for all living beings. true freedom for me consists of being present with all that is arising for and as, me. where i withhold is where i am not meeting my Self. when i look and am still, there is an innocence radiating through all i meet regardless of the actions. each of us are pinned to the moment of who we are now. yes, all kinds of transformations may occur on many levels, but it all depends upon truly being here. what assists this is the willingness to trust that the same grace that calls you is unfolding with each of us on our path. --josie-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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