Shiva Sati story (was "Men and the Goddess")

[Guest guest]

>Message: 11 Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:55:58 -0000

>"vnathan14342" <vnathan14342

>"adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16

>Men and the Goddess (Re: S/S?)

>1. There is one contradiction in this story. After having immolated

>Herself in the sacrificial fire, Sati's corpse was still available

>for Shivji to carry around for Vishnu to cut into pieces to remove

>Shivji's disillusion. How was it possible? That was a question my

>daughter asked, and I could not find an answer. Can any one

>elucidate?

 

Namaste "vnathan".

 

Perhaps I can offer an answer to your daughter's question.

 

There are different versions of the Shiva Sati story. For instance, the

version in the Kalika Purana has several differences from the version in

the Shiva Purana.

 

In the Shiva Purana (which I read some time ago) Sati goes to the Daksha's

ritual and immolates herself in the sacrificial fire because she is

offended by Daksha insult to Shiva. Shiva punishes Daksha, but remains

calm, and doesn't carry around Sati's body.

 

In the Kalika Purana (which I'm studying right now) Sati doesn't in fact go

to Daksha's ritual. Her spirit leaves her body straight after she hears

that her father has organized a ritual without inviting her and her

husband. Her body doesn't go into a fire, so it's there for Shiva to pick

up and carry about.

 

Contradictions arise when the different versions get mixed up.

>3. Shivji was unconsolable because Sati sacrificed Herself to uphold

>the glory of her Husband. His action was a manifestation of His love

>for Sati who had sacrificed Herself because of Her love for Shivji.

 

In the Kalika Purana version, Sati's reason for leaving her body is

somewhat different.

 

The event is foreshadowed even before Sati is born. Daksha worships the

Goddess, she appears before him, and he entreats her to incarnate as his

daughter. The Goddess replies that she will grant his request. However she

also warns him that if he ever treats her with disrespect, then she will

end her incarnation at once, whether her life at the time is happy or not.

 

It isn't a matter of a wife upholding the glory of her husband, but of the

Goddess manifesting her own glory.

 

Om Shantih,

 

 

Colin Robinson

(colinr)

_________________________

To find out about Ferment, the journal about Kali as Great Goddess, go to

www.yogamagik.com/ferment Find out about topics of recent issues, what

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[Guest guest]

-colin, thank you for sharing your views on this subject.

 

the version i quoted was based on the 'shiva purana' - you are

absolutely right.

 

but , in the version, i read, shiva was 'enraged' at his beloved

wife's untimely death - so enraged was he that he cut daksha's head

and threw it into the sacrificial fire. then upon request . he found

the head of a 'goat' on daksha's head and revived him.

 

in this version that i read, shiva does take the lifeless 'body' of

sati and in a 'frenzied' mood did the 'tandava' dance - he was

roaming round carrying the corpse of sati on his shoulders like a mad

man -then vishnu threw his 'disc' (sudarshana chakra) and cut her

body into several pieces and sati's body fell all over and these

places were honred as shakti peethas! please refer to post on shakti

peethas!

 

who is to glorify whom? in shiva purana, shiva is glorified and in

kalika purana mother kali glorified. in vishnu purana, vishnu is

glorified.

 

but from all the tantras we know shiva worships his sakti and sakti

in turn worships shiva? are they different? they are on unified

whole! ardha-nareeshwera! the shiva lingam has 'yoni' in it! the yoni

has 'linga' in it! this is the highest tattwa!

 

shiva and his shakti are inseperable-that is why lifetime after

lifetime , they are each other's consort.

 

uma-maheshwera

 

parvati-parameshwera

 

shiva- sakti

 

kamakshi-kamshwera

 

meenakshi-sunderesha

 

annapurna- vishwanatha

 

kali- kaleshwera

 

so on and so forth!

 

whenver i read all these 'version' i always find that there are as

many versions as there are translations! read the bhagvat gita - one

sees so many different versions- 'dwaita' , 'advaitha' etc...

 

i use my sword of 'discrimination' and like a swan try to seperate

the milk from the water!

 

as a woman (stree) it is very appealing to me to see

shiva 'grieving ' for his wife, sati. (specially since valentine's

day is just a day way- how romantic)

 

by the same token, it is very 'sexy' to see sati sacrificing her life

to make a statement that her beloved husband's honr means more to her

than her own life? is this not the highest form of sacrifice?

love!

 

 

well, my 2 cents-

 

 

in loving service

[Guest guest]

"it is very 'sexy' to see sati sacrificing her life to make a

statement that her beloved husband's honour means more to her than

her own life? is this not the highest form of sacrifice? "

 

I wish I could agree with you adi maa, but I find it such word very

disturbing. It is by this notion that the act of "Sati" it self

becomes widespread and being "justified". Widowed are being

persuaded,

forced, drugged and sometime hurled in her husband funeral pyre in

the

name of " being faithful". Symbolically widows who refuse to

"sacrifice" themselves and is still full of life, are being scorned

and ill treated. I believe there are more reasons to just a

sacrifice.

 

As usual there are several version to this story, Im not here to

dispute who is right or wrong, but to find an understanding to this

whole story and learn from it. That is believe is the purpose of the

Gita, Purana etc.

 

In Mahabhagavata Purana, Siva's narration to sage Narada " Sati said

"

I shall go to my father's sacrifice in order to destroy his pride".

Sati in the form of Kali went in a bejeweled chariot drawn by 10,000

lions to her father's sacrifice "

 

Sati is so called, according to the Devi-Bhagavad because she is of

the nature of truth. She also represent good fortune, auspicious,

beauty and charm.

 

There are many versions to the Story, but one thing for sure Sati did

went to her fathers sacrifical weather physically or spiritually. And

the main aim of her presence is to destroy pride and arrogance.

 

Sati's death is due to the underlying conflict between Daksan and

Shiva. Sati comes from the realm of established religion, the order

of

the dharma and marries into a realm of ascetism, thus combining

herself the two opposing worlds. In this aspect Sati function as a

mediator, trying to bring the two world together.

 

Daksa distaste for Siva's odd appearance, strange habits and as a

world renouncer, Shiva does not behave accordingly to the ways of the

world. His appearance is most unconventional. Shiva was also

undoubtedly a non-Aryan indigenous diety who was looked upon with

considerable suspicion by the Brahman custodians of the sacrificial

cult. His association with world renounciation, asceticism and the

powers of fertility as symbolized by the linga probably marked him as

a deity who belongs to the fringes of society from the point of view

of the Brahman establishment. Eventually, it was the death of Sati

which brings these conflict to the end. The reinstitution of the

sacrifices and Siva being included after he restore the head of Daksa

represents his acceptance into the establishment of the Brahman

religion. Therefore when Sati kills herself, she causes the conflict

between these two opposing world to resurface in the open which

initially are destructive but eventually resulted in beneficial and

creative.

 

The same can be said about Sati's body, when Vishnu cut her body to

pieces and falls to earth. She dutifully played two role :

1) by bringing Shiva back down to earth, where he previously he

dwelled in the mountains and engaged in austerities, indifferent to

the ongoing creation.

 

" He was unaware of the manifest world, his mind being fully

absorbed…. Regaining his self composure, he passed the time

contemplating the true form of the goddess" [ Devi Gita 1: 5 ]

 

He followed her to earth and when he found her yoni in one of the

places, he embedded himself in her yoni thus fully engaged in the

creation as symbolized by the conjunction of the yoni and linga.

This

act itself by Sati makes Siva accessible to the world ( in the form

of

his linga ) and he can still perform his heroic asceticism in the

mountain retreats in one of his several forms.

 

2) By having pieces of her body falling into the various part of

the earth ( this being India ) she have sacrilizing the earth. From

this body pieces various form of establishments ( temples ) emerge.

The earth itself is seen as the body of goddess sati and as such she

made it accessible to her devotees or to those who seek her powers.

 

 

 

Om ParaShaktiye Namaha

[Guest guest]

, "nora55_1999" <nora55_1999> wrote:

> "it is very 'sexy' to see sati sacrificing her life to make a

> statement that her beloved husband's honour means more to her than

> her own life? is this not the highest form of sacrifice?"

 

Thank you, Nora for commenting on this and opening room for

clarification. I, too feel that the specter of abuse looms too large

for these words to be digested in the spirit they were intended.

 

The joy of a great though mythical act of self sacrifice cannot help

but be compared with actual human suffering that takes the same form.

 

This is in part how I came to the Goddess.

 

My family was nominally catholic. My mother was frequently beaten,

her face was bruised and her eyes blackened often when I was a child.

When I was taken to church, I looked on the image behind the altar of

the man hanging on the cross, dying, bleeding from his side and from

his crown and I felt a continuation of the horror I felt at home. But

catholic churches always have a section dedicated to "the Virgin

Mary." There I looked into a woman's face, beautiful and full of

compassion, lit by soft candlelight. My heart was full there,

peaceful. I felt no attachment to the stories I was told about her,

but I was fully attached to the image and the principles that

radiated from that image.

 

In time I found more things to feed my soul and nurture me, but it

was the face of the Goddess as I saw Her in a catholic church that

spoke to me right from the beginning.

 

And so I say that an image that mimics a suffering may not be able to

transmit other information to the viewer. To some of us, the Sati

story paired with he notion of Her sacrifice for Her consort

being "sexy" too closely resembles suttee. This is good for

discussion, I think.

 

The Goddess ever offers me more compassion than I understand. She is

my light.

 

Prainbow

[Guest guest]

prainbow, just to let you know that i am against all forms of abuse

both physical and emotional - specially to women and children. in

fact i am an active member (also do fund raising) for an organization

that is exclusively devoted to helping "victims of domestic abuse "

in my city- we provide temporary shelter to these abused women,, help

them to get rehabilitate themselves , teach them job skills and

provide counselling sevices. Abuse is never good- because an abused

person abuses another person- the pattern continues!

 

let me explain once more...

 

all i was trying to say in plain english was - 'when somebody loves

another person( man or a woman) such a person will follow that person

to the 'ends of the earth' - in this instance , sati loved shiva so

much that she could not tolerate her husband being insulted and

called names by her arrogant father daksha- so, she did the act of

self-immolation- jumped into the sacrificial fire?

 

does this mean i want every woman to do this ? no way!

 

also does every woman have to jump into 'fire' to prove her

chastity? no way!

 

one must look for esoteric meanings in these puranic stories and not

take them literally-

 

i repeat and i repeat i am totally against widows jumping into the

funeral fire of their husbands , shaving their heads etc.

 

every form of woman is worshippable as they are manifestations of the

divine mother- every one of them,....

 

from shodasi (the sixteen year oldsd)

 

to lalita mahatripurasundari ( the beautiful one)

 

to kali ( the frightening one)

 

and to dhoomavati ( the widow goddess.)

 

love

[Guest guest]

, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> prainbow, just to let you know that i am against all forms of abuse

> both physical and emotional - specially to women and children.

 

Please! Do not think that I interpret your words to mean you advocate

any form of abuse! No, on the contrary, I find your words loving and

interesting. I am struggling to peacefully point out that what may be

a simple image for one person, may be more complicated for another,

because of their experiences. This I think is true in many cases.

Your generosity is not at all questioned here.

 

Though you obviously understand the implications, many people are

untouched by the challenges of domestic violence. Bu tI think it

important to discuss the intended and principle meaning of these

great texts. I only wish to be honest where my personal experience

differs, in order to participate in a deeper discussion of how to

reconcile the ideals of the texts with the sometimes challenging

realities of *some* women's lives.

 

In this, I am so grateful to be part of such a broad forum of

opinion. I have no wish to narrow this discussion to my perspective,

my experience, my interpretation of anything. I am enriched by the

diversity of discussion here. Frequently I have nothing at all to

offer as I am so poorly versed in the texts and customs discussed

here.

 

I hope I do not diminish your joyous passion for this story or any

other. I do not view your opinion with any negativity at all. I hope

that I may offer my own concerns and reactions without reflecting at

all negatively on the wisdom and love that you bring to this forum.

 

Although I am a strong and independent woman, please accept my

genuine humility in this learned temple of the Goddess. I bow without

feeling diminished. I may contradict yet intend no insult. I may

differ yet feel no less respect. Please accept my sincere apologies

if I have offended. I hope you know I do not doubt your generous and

peaceful contributions.

 

Namaskar,

 

Prainbow

[Guest guest]

prainbow, no not at all ! how can you ever offend me ? your opinions

are valuable - in fact, the more we women speak up, the better it is!

against all forms of socal injustice. your experiences in discovering

the 'goddess' brought tears to my eyes!

 

btw, did you visit the 'temple' i told you about? it is in summerlin-

on subdays, you will get wonderful 'prasadam' - do visit!

 

keep sharing your views - that is the beauty of any group- " if there

are six people in a group, there are seven opinions." -do you get it?

lol! smiles....

 

have a wonderul valentine's day! bask in the the sunshine of the

divine mother's eternal 'love'

 

love and only love

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, "prainbow61" <paulie-rainbow@u...> wrote:

> , "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

> wrote:

> > prainbow, just to let you know that i am against all forms of

abuse

> > both physical and emotional - specially to women and children.

>

> Please! Do not think that I interpret your words to mean you

advocate

> any form of abuse! No, on the contrary, I find your words loving

and

> interesting. I am struggling to peacefully point out that what may

be

> a simple image for one person, may be more complicated for another,

> because of their experiences. This I think is true in many cases.

> Your generosity is not at all questioned here.

>

> Though you obviously understand the implications, many people are

> untouched by the challenges of domestic violence. Bu tI think it

> important to discuss the intended and principle meaning of these

> great texts. I only wish to be honest where my personal experience

> differs, in order to participate in a deeper discussion of how to

> reconcile the ideals of the texts with the sometimes challenging

> realities of *some* women's lives.

>

> In this, I am so grateful to be part of such a broad forum of

> opinion. I have no wish to narrow this discussion to my

perspective,

> my experience, my interpretation of anything. I am enriched by the

> diversity of discussion here. Frequently I have nothing at all to

> offer as I am so poorly versed in the texts and customs discussed

> here.

>

> I hope I do not diminish your joyous passion for this story or any

> other. I do not view your opinion with any negativity at all. I

hope

> that I may offer my own concerns and reactions without reflecting

at

> all negatively on the wisdom and love that you bring to this forum.

>

> Although I am a strong and independent woman, please accept my

> genuine humility in this learned temple of the Goddess. I bow

without

> feeling diminished. I may contradict yet intend no insult. I may

> differ yet feel no less respect. Please accept my sincere apologies

> if I have offended. I hope you know I do not doubt your generous

and

> peaceful contributions.

>

> Namaskar,

>

> Prainbow

[Guest guest]

In my previous post about Sati and Shiva, I mention that there is

more reasons to just a sacrifice. To expand on it, I personally

believe Devi reincarnation of Sati is not just to function as the

wifely role and performing the sacrifice so that other can model her

as thesymbol of the faithful wife. Oh ! The story of a faithful wife

sacrificing for the sake of her husband honors make a lovely love

story, but isit what the whole story is all about?

 

The central role of Devi is that of a creator and the cosmic queen.

As a cosmic queen she maintain cosmic order through the process of

destruction, creation and preservation. Sati is so called, according

to the Devi-Bhagavad because she is of the nature of truth. She also

represents good fortune, auspicious, beauty and charm. Sati itself

represent the earth as beingflourishing and thriving, but it has

become full of ego, arrogance and prideful (symbolizes the King). The

death of Sati brings about the period of chaos and turmoil (being

inauspicious). Personally I believe Sati kills herself, not so much of

to uphold the honor of her husband, but to punish.

 

"I shall go to my father's sacrifice in order to destroy his pride.

Sati in the form of Kali went in a bejeweled chariot drawn by 10,000

lions to her father's sacrifice "

 

" Meanwhile, the three tiered universe, with all that is mobile and

immobile, lost its auspicious charm. When the entire world with its

oceans, continents and mountains bereft of energy… then, ever

drowing in a sea of misery, they were consumed by disease " The Devi

Gita 1:6 - 1: 8

 

This is nothing new, Goddess Lakshmi is said to represent good

fortune did the same thing. A myth tells us that Goddess Lakshmi

disappear from the three world, when God Indra insulted her. As a

result, all sacrifices cease to be performed, all austerities are

discontinued by the sages, all generosity ends, the sun and moon lose

their brilliance, the gods lose their strength, and fire loses its

heat. In the absence of the goddess the worlds become dull and

lusteries and begin to wither away. When she returns, the world again

regain their vitality, and the society of humans and the order of the

gods regain their sense of purpose. In the story of the churning of

the ocean, after the reemergence of Goddess Lakshmi, Indra composed a

hymn of praise for Lakshmi, she thus praised, granted him three

wishes, namely

1. That never again should she abandon the three worlds

2. Never again should she forsake any that should sing her praise

in the worlds of Indra's hymn

3. Those who hears or read the story of the reemergence of

Goddess Lakshmi, SHE will never leave their house for three

generations; strife or misfortune may never enter where the hymns of

Goddess Lakshmi is sing.

 

In Devi Gita, the supreme Goddess manifest herself on the crest of

the Himalayas, after all the Gods and sage performs the sacrifice and

prayers for the Supreme Goddess.

 

Another aspect of this mythology is the function of Sati as the forth

that brought forth creation. Sati plays the role of luring Siva from

ascetic isolation into creative participation in the world. Thus the

central message in this is that union /marriage between Man (Shiva)

and Woman (Sati) is necessary for life to be generated and sustained.

Therefore in the mythology of Sati and Shiva, this has been

accomplished as evidence from the union of Yoni (all individual

woman) and lingam (all individual man). Sati played a central role

that bring forth this union.

 

OM ParaShaktiye Namaha