Unusual Approaches to Goddess?

[Guest guest]

devi_bhakta

 

Basically, I posed three examples of these practices of an unusual

approaches to Goddess: (1) worship of living girls (Kumaris);

(2) worship of historical figures; and

(3) worship of living women who claim to be full avatars of Devi.

 

One member took the Kumari Pooja question to another club for

discussion, so I'm hoping there might be some interest here as well!

If there is, let's talk about it! If not, carry on! ;-)

 

evil_djinia

 

Hi Again Devi, I always like your input into things. It's poignant. I

looked at the pics of Human Goddesses and find the young Kumari sad.

Do you have a pic where she's smiling. I would like to think that she

could be appreciated as a human and not just as a symbol. Of course

the Dalaio Lama was raised as such, but he's had a long lifetime of

experience now to become what he was trained to be - a living rep of

Buddha. I believe Krishnamurti was born into and raised a Theosophist

and he was supposed to become Maitreya or Buddha but chose not to. (

I

don't remember where I heard the last thing, so don't quote me).

These

things happen because people need to feel their God is nearby. What I

want to know is what the rep makes out of the experience. They might

represent,but can they actually BE the thing. I think experience is

the only teacher. I would like to find a Kumari who then became a

saint later in life. That would be really special. Of course India

has

many wandering saints but how many women saints wander like the

sannyasin and live such a life of tapas? I'm curious.

 

 

groovflowr

 

I don't have too very much to say on this right now, but maybe some

more will come to mind if others respond and what they say triggers

some other way of thinking in my mind. (I sure hope so! <g>)

 

Basically, I view the Divine as present in everything. So, it would

follow that any way of focussing on understanding the Divine is

correct for that given person at that given time. Every person is

different. We all follow a multitude of different Paths, and we're

all

at different points on those Paths. My understanding of the Divine

Truth is not anyone else's. (Or, as my dear friend "Father Georgie"

has said: "My gnosis is not your gnosis.") Not exactly. And that's

because we all have this wonderful ability and gift to have our own

experiences and our own unique views *because* of those varying

experiences. All of these views adding up to create new experiences,

which in turn create new views.... And the Cycle continues to turn.

 

So, with everyone being at their own unique point on their own unique

Path, of course there are going to be different understandings of the

Divine! And I think that's the grooviest thing! I just find it sad

that there are so many who don't seem to "get" this and can't seem to

accept that an other's Path is not their own. (But, even that could

be

considered a lack of "getting it" on my part....)

 

Personally, I view any way of looking at the Divine as limiting. "The

tao that can be told is not the true Tao." That's not to say at all

that it's a bad thing to focus on one particular understanding of the

Divine. Not at all. If you're working to understand It, then any and

every way of doing so is valuable. Eventually it'll add up to the big

picture of the Truth. I just find it important to work toward those

particular focuses on understanding while keeping in mind that the

Sum

is more than it's parts. But each of those parts is a valuable clue

as

to what the Whole is.

 

Myself, I'm currently focussing on It through Inanna. She's totally

foreign to me in the context of every experience I've had so far in

this life-time. But She's the best course for me to take at this

point

on my Path. I know that I've taken other routes before and that I

will

take others in the future still. That doesn't negate or invalidate

any

of those priour routes, or this one when the future comes. It just

means that my understanding of the Divine Truth is a bit different at

every point on my Path. And that it works for me now is really all

that matters. I am who I am now. That person arose out of who I was.

And she is moving towards who I will be. But always, I am who I am at

that moment in time. And whatever moves me closer to The Truth is

valid for me.

 

In the end, I don't see any one particular view as being correct.

Each understanding has certain aspects about it which point to the

Truth, but they're still limitations in my mind. For instance, I know

that this group focusses on the worship of the G-ddess and the Divine

Feminine. While I personally don't think that gives one the full

picture, it's still more of the picture than one might have

otherwise.

And obviously, with my current focus on Inanna, I too look at the

Divine in terms of the Feminine right now. I think there's an equally

important Masculine aspect that shouldn't be ignored. But I don't

think anyone here is doing that as far as I can tell. I think I'm

"preaching to the choir", so to speak. At least that's the general

feeling I have coming into this ramble of mine. <g>

 

I know that this is pretty generalised, but in the context of what

I'm

trying to say, I don't think getting down to specific examples is

really going to say anything more than a general concept would. <g>

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, even though I think any one

particular view of The Truth misses something, they're all important

in hitting on something too. And even though I may currently be better

understanding It All through one particular view, I still like to try

to understand other views too, even if they don't gel with me at the

moment, because it can't hurt to have as many understandings as

possible. All these little parts add up to a big chunk of the Big

Picture, so the more one can appreciate the more of the Truth one can

understand.

 

As for the specific examples Devi listed, I must admit that my

personal knowledge and experience is limited. I only recently saw a

film on the Kumari in my "Magic, Witchcraft, and Religion" class. Up

until that point I don't recall ever having encountered anything

about

the Kumari before. And, as the film only covered the lives of a

couple

of the individual Kumari priour to and during their role as Kumari, I

don't have that great of an idea of the full implications of being

Kumari, as far as what happens *after*. Devi said in #861 that "often

these girls -- as they get older-- are socially avoided, and have

trouble making a living, finding a marriage partner, etc Or have I

misunderstood this tradition?" While I can't comment on this at all,

as I have no knowledge either way, these are questions that I had

raised in my own reflection on the Kumari film.

 

In general, I really view these different approaches to the Divine as

just that. There is no judgement in my mind either way about them.

They are simply different approaches. I think the example in #468 (as

I back-track...) brought it home a bit more for me. Here the idea of

venerating a movie star is mentioned: "Nora stated that, 'Ultimately

it doesn't matter as to who you worship. ... the most important is

that this act of worshipping fulfill the need ... to feel connected

to

the Divine One.'

 

However, she found it 'rather irrational' to deify popular movie

stars

as Baburoy notes is sometimes seen in popular Hinduism. Baburoy

observes, 'I think it really matters who is put on the pedestal.' "

Firstly, I was glad to learn of another cultural practise. Not

because

I am placing a judgement either way on that practise, but because I

like to learn about different cultures in general. (I'm an

Anthropology student because of this. And because I'm an Anthropology

student, I like to learn about different cultures. <wg>) I didn't

know

that popular Hinduism sometimes placed movie stars on that level.

But,

then again, it's not really all that different from the fanaticism

that often surrounds film and music stars in American secular

culture.

So, using that connection, I tried to better understand it from my

own

frame of reference. However, I fell short of doing so. I can

understand it to an extent, but not all the way. I know that I've

personally felt rather passionate about a couple of movie and rock

stars here and there, but in thinking about it I immediately realised

that I never felt that they were Divine in the same way I feel that

My

Lady Inanna is Divine. I know that ultimately they *are* Divine as

people, just as I am, but there's definitely a different feel

there.... When I think about it more, their *art* often feels very

much to me as Inanna does. But that's more a message than they

themselves. And that clicked for me. It's not Inanna that means so

much to me in my Path as what she represents, and how *that* relates

to where I am now. It's about the message and the lesson to be

learned, not the cover of the book.

 

Well, I've rambled on enough I think. It's 4:30 in the morning for me

and I think it's time I wander off to bed now. Thanks for listening

and good night everyone!

: )

 

devi_bhakta

 

Hi evil_djinia ... You and groovflowr bring up some excellent

thoughts about the girls who become Kumaris; if you find a smiling

pic, please do add it to the album! But I just recently read a great

article in the "New Yorker" about the murder of Nepal's royal family,

in which it was mentioned in passing that until recently it wasn't

considered at all kosher for Nepali VIPS (royalty, and I suppose the

exalted Kumaris as well) to smile in public.

 

"Smiling for the camera," until very recently, seems to be more a

Western conceit -- in many if not most Asian countries, you see much

less of it. Look at old sepia-tone photos of your ancestors and I

think you'll see the same was true in the West for quite a long time.

 

So don't read too much into the Kumari's glum expression. She's a very

little girl with a very big responsibility, right or wrong.

 

Groovflowr

 

So don't read too much into the Kumari's glum expression. She's a very

little girl with a very big responsibility, right or wrong. >

::nods::

That's a very good point about a smiling in public (or not) being a

general socio-cultural custom.

 

Also, the film I saw in class ("The Living Goddess") mentions specific

ways in which a Kumari must behave. For one, she can no longer speak

in public. Private ceremonies occur every morning and every evening

in

a special room used for no other purpose. There, the Kumari sits

trance-like while people come and make offerings to her in order to

receive blessings. Ideally she is to remain still in a trance because

any movement determines what will happen in the case that has been

brought before her. Even a twitch of the thumb or a finger could

spell

mis-fortune for the person who has come before her. I'm sure that

smiling is generally tied in with the ritual of her bodily actions in

these private ceremonies of offerings and blessings, as well as with

what is expected of her in public. Every aspect of her life is a

solemn one. And while smiling is not necessarily mutually exclusive

of

a solemn state, it seems to be in this context. There can be great

joy

in being so very solemn that one does not smile. I know that I feel

this way every morning and every evening when doing my prayers to

My Lady Inanna.

 

devi_bhakta

 

Thanks for a great post. I really enjoyed it. I think

you're absolutely right in your basic contention that Divine Reality

is too vast to capture in any one religious construct. But I do feel

that individual humans should settle upon a given path in their

journey of discovery, for a while at least.

 

Only because, in too much flitting between traditions, one becomes

like a bee hopping from flower to beautiful flower, picking up a

little something sweet and then moving on. The thing is to stay a

while and immerse oneself in the flower of choice, taking in all it

can give you -- because the sweetest treasures of any religion are

never on the visible surface. If it takes a lifetime, or two, or

three

to absorb the whole thing -- fine! If a takes only a month or a year,

that's fine too! As you say, everything depends on the individual.

 

You mention, "Personally, I view any [single] way of looking at the

Divine as limiting. The tao that can be told is not the true Tao."

That's true too -- but it's the limitations of a given tradition that

can provide the very discipline that's needed to escape those

limitations. Just as a pianist must practice thousands of rote scales

before s/he can fly off into transcendently gorgeous improvisation;

or

the ballet dancer must spend hours doing dull, painful barre work

before becoming the image of beauty incarnate onstage.

 

Sri Ramakrishna -- a spiritual adept of the highest order -- immersed

himself in most schools of Hinduism, as well as Christianity and

Islam, at different points during his life. Each brought him to the

same ulimate, inexpressible truth, he said. Which is a good answer to

those who would insist that only one path can lead to salvation. But

he always returned to his beloved Goddess Kali as his own ultimate,

heartfelt vision of the Supreme Divine.

 

I do think you've got the right idea -- the Divine is too vast and too

beautiful to confine oneself to some narrow, doctrinaire view of it.

I

think you're right to explore as many as you can, so long as you

don't

allow yourself to become a mere "spiritual tourist."

 

On another subject, could you tell me more about the Lady Inanna, on

whom you focus your spiritual life at present? I'm not familiar with

Her tradition, and would love to learn more.

 

Also, you note -- in the context of movie-star/pop-star worship -- "I

tried to better understand it from my own frame of reference.

However,

I fell short of doing so. I can understand it to an extent, but not

all the way." I understand just where you're coming from, but would

recommend that you read message from jaiphilcollins ( on Instant

Goddess ) before you give up your efforts to get your mind around

this

particular approach to the Divine; it surprised me, and maybe it will

surprise you too.

 

Thanks again for your heartfelt and most enjoyable post.