is tantra mere mundane enjoyment? or is it more than that?

[Guest guest]

Madyapaanena manujo yadi siddhim labheta vai /

 

Madyapaanarataah sarve siddhim gacchantu paamaraah //

 

Maamsabhaksanamaatrena yadi punyagatirbhavet /

 

Loke maamsaashinah sarve punyabhaajo bhavantviha ///

 

Striisambhogena deveshi yadi moksam vrajanti vai /

 

Sarve'pi jantavo loke muktaah syuh striinisevanaat //

 

If (yádi) a man (manujah) really (vai) could attain (labheta) to

Perfection (siddhim) by drinking (paanena) wine (mádya), (then) may

all (sarve) (those) vile (paamaraah) people who are addicted to

drinking (paanarataah) wine (mádya) achieve (gacchantu) Perfection

(siddhim)! //

 

If (yádi) the achievement (gátih) of Virtue (púnya) would result

(bhavet) from merely (maatrena) eating (bhaksana) meat (maamsá),

(then) may all (sarve) carnivorous beings (maamsaashinah) in this

world (loke... ihá) be (bhavantu) virtuous (punyabhaajah)! //

 

Oh goddess (deveshi)!, if (yádi) (the beings) indeed (vai) attain

(vrajanti) to Liberation (moksam) through the enjoyment (sambhogena)

of women (strii), (then) all (sarve) creatures (jantavah) in this

world (loke) would become (syuh) liberated (muktaah) by frequenting

(nisevanaat) women (strii) //

 

if by merely drinking wine, eating meat and having sexual

intercourse , we all can become 'enlightened' in no time!

 

every act in tantra has a special meaning and symbolism and

significance. those desirous of attaing liberation, must follow all

the strict rules of tantric discipline and rules statesd in the

tantra shastras.

 

folks, tantra is 'practical' but it is no means an easy path or a

short cut to enlightenment!!!!

 

love

[Guest guest]

Dear members, i am new to the group, namaste to all!

 

in the kula-arnava tantra a clear 'distinction' is made between bhoga

and yoga.. and how the Kaula (kula) relates to it..

 

 

The yogin cannot be a bhogin, and a bhogin cannot be a knower of

Yoga. However, O Beloved, the path of Kaula, which is superior to

everything, is of the essence of bhoga and yoga.

 

O Mistress of the kula! In the kula teaching, bhoga is directly

conducive to yoga, sin is conducive to good karma, and the world is

conducive to liberation.

 

Like the sun, which dries up everything, or the fire, which consumes

everything, so the yogin enjoys everything but is not stained by sin.

Like the wind, which touches everything, or like space, which is

everywhere, or like those immersing themselves completely in rivers,

the yogin is always pure.

 

Ten million rituals of worship equal one hymn; ten million hymns

equal one recitation; ten million recitations equal one meditation;

ten million meditations equal a single absorption.

 

 

i am very interested in Kaula.. if you have any other information,

please don't hesitate to post or email me.. i appreciate a lot..

love,

jeroen

http://www.geocities.com/sphurna/

 

 

, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

> Madyapaanena manujo yadi siddhim labheta vai /

>

> Madyapaanarataah sarve siddhim gacchantu paamaraah //

>

> Maamsabhaksanamaatrena yadi punyagatirbhavet /

>

> Loke maamsaashinah sarve punyabhaajo bhavantviha ///

>

> Striisambhogena deveshi yadi moksam vrajanti vai /

>

> Sarve'pi jantavo loke muktaah syuh striinisevanaat //

>

> If (yádi) a man (manujah) really (vai) could attain (labheta) to

> Perfection (siddhim) by drinking (paanena) wine (mádya), (then) may

> all (sarve) (those) vile (paamaraah) people who are addicted to

> drinking (paanarataah) wine (mádya) achieve (gacchantu) Perfection

> (siddhim)! //

>

> If (yádi) the achievement (gátih) of Virtue (púnya) would result

> (bhavet) from merely (maatrena) eating (bhaksana) meat (maamsá),

> (then) may all (sarve) carnivorous beings (maamsaashinah) in this

> world (loke... ihá) be (bhavantu) virtuous (punyabhaajah)! //

>

> Oh goddess (deveshi)!, if (yádi) (the beings) indeed (vai) attain

> (vrajanti) to Liberation (moksam) through the enjoyment

(sambhogena)

> of women (strii), (then) all (sarve) creatures (jantavah) in this

> world (loke) would become (syuh) liberated (muktaah) by frequenting

> (nisevanaat) women (strii) //

>

> if by merely drinking wine, eating meat and having sexual

> intercourse , we all can become 'enlightened' in no time!

>

> every act in tantra has a special meaning and symbolism and

> significance. those desirous of attaing liberation, must follow all

> the strict rules of tantric discipline and rules statesd in the

> tantra shastras.

>

> folks, tantra is 'practical' but it is no means an easy path or a

> short cut to enlightenment!!!!

>

> love

[Guest guest]

hi spurna, welcome aboard!

 

i just visited the web link you posted! fabulous! chandogya

upanishads is one of my favorites- and the dialogue between svetaketu

and his father uddalaka muni is the most enlightening treatise of

all! Tat twam asi!!!! you are that!

 

yES, IN TANTRA SPIRITUAL PERFECTION CAN BE ATTAINED USING THE

FULFILLMENT OF ALL WORLDLY DESIRES... BHOGHA CAN BE CONVERTED INTO A

VEHICLE for YOGA - THAT IS 'VIRA' SADHANA IS ALL ABOUT! om for bhogha

and yoga but bhogha can be converted into yoga A man can fall due to

the lust of a woman like RAVANA but tantra teaches how the same man

can attain spiritual perfection by using his love for his partner

into the sublime love for the ultimate reality.

 

yes, your quotation is most appropriate...

 

"If a man is a YOGIN, he does not enjoy sensual pleasures; while one

who enjoys them cannot know YOGA. That is why the KAULA (a TANTRIC

School) way, containing the essence of sexual enjoyment and YOGA, is

superior to all paths. In the KAULA approach, sexual enjoyment turns

into YOGA directly. What in conventional religion is considered sin

becomes meritorious."

-- KULARNAVA TANTRA

 

how to use wordly desires to attain the soul's yearning for spiritual

perfection -is the essence of tantra... using *sexuality* to

completely transcend it -that is the kaula path- you said it, kiddo!

 

even our shaivite scholar abinavagupta says...

 

 

[Tantric schools], there is physical union (SAMGHATTA) between VIRA

(the male) and YOGINI (the female). The purpose is only to stimulate

NITYA-ANANDA (the eternal beatitude) by means of the contact of the

sex organs. This contact gives intense delight [for the body and

spirit].

-- A text by ABHINAVAGUPTA

 

 

 

 

yes, i would love to share with you the many links that i access on

kaula marga- likewise, please continue to enrich us with all

insights on this subject...

 

but, i am myself more inclined towards the 'samya' marga od adi

shankaras and love 'swatantra' tantra approach- more suited to my

temperament...

 

love