Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 adi_shakthi16 shri Ramakrishna has stated that a man cannot realise God if he possesses even one of the eight occult powers. He quoted Lord Krishna teaching Arjuna "Friend, if you want to realise Me, you will not succeed if you have even one of the eight occult powers. This is the truth. Occult power is sure to beget pride and pride makes one forget God." He continued, "An egoistic person cannot realise God. Do you know what egotism is like? It is like a high mound where rain-water cannot collect; the water runs off. Water collects in low land. There seeds sprout and grow into trees. Then the trees bear fruit. 'The deliberate pursuit of psychic powers is not favoured by sages and advanced sincere seekers. They discourage such practices deeming them an obstacle to realising oneness of being' "People of small intellect seek occult powers. Power to cure disease, win a law suit, walk on water and such things. But the genuine devotees do not want anything except His lotus feet. . . . People with a little occult power gain such things as name and fame. Many of them want to follow the profession of Guru, gain people's recognition, and make disciples and devotees." "People cure diseases through occult powers. All this is miracle working. Only those whose spiritual experience is extremely shallow call on God for the healing of diseases.It is very hard for those who want occult power to have pure love for God." ************************************************** even shri ramana maharishi says... "In Halasya Mahima there is a chapter on the eightfold siddhis. There Lord Siva says that his bhakta never wastes a thought on them. Again, Lord Siva says that He never grants boons. The desires of devotees are fulfilled according to their prarabdha only. When Ishwara Himself says so, what of others? In order to display siddhis there must be others to recognise them. That means there is no jnana (enlightened awareness) in the one who displays them. Therefore siddhis (occult powers) are not worthy of any thought. Jnana (self realisation) alone is to be aimed at and gained. Atman (the Self) alone is to be realised. Its realisation holds all else in its compass. Sakti, Ganapati, Siddhis etc., are included in it. Those who speak of these have not realised the Atman." shri ramana says- "Who is the jnani? If he is the body you see, then his siddhis will be shown to other bodies. But if he is pure awareness , from where will he get the siddhis and to whom will he show them? "Both the jnani and the bhakta (devotee) do not desire or work for siddhis; the former because he sees himself the All, and the latter because he sees his Ishta Devata ‹ his favourite deity ‹ the All ; even his own action is done by this deity; he has no will of his own at all to impel action on his own initiative. Yet siddhis follow them both like their shadows. What greater siddhi is there than that of the Sage., who by merely sitting on his couch, attracts thousands of people from the four corners of the earth, hundreds of whom change their old modes of life and some even attain Godhood? "The highest siddhi is realisation of the Self, Atma Sakshatkara; for here, once you realise the truth you cease to be drawn to the path of ignorance." Hari om tat sat philomina7 But Shri Ramkrishna Dev also gave Diksha and He had many Chelas. I learnt that if the Sadhana is done in a right way and the Chela takes lessons and practice his lessons perfectly only then the siddhis come one by one with the perfection in his sadhana. But the Chela is supposed not to use it. But if the Sadhana is not on the right path the siddhis never achieved. There are many Holymen and Gurus like His Holyness Mahesh Yogi, Dalai Lama. Pope, Sankaracharya etc etc so all of them are wrong? philomina7 adi_shakthi16 dear philomena, you have answere your own question, dear one! yes, the guru gives diksha and the chela or disciple may acquire siddhis due to mantra sadhna and perfection of sadhna ? but does the chela use these siddhis to 'punish' his enemies ? doe he use these siddhis to make 'money' saying i can 'cure' diseases or ' i will give you a gem' to attract the 'opposite sex' etc? or like swami vivekananda he uses his powers of realization to help the poor and the downtrodden! nowadays, people in india are using vaastu shastra, jyotish shastra, feng shui etc to rob people of their money ! the purpose of sadhna is to go beyond seing 'visions' and acquring 'siddhis' - the purpose of sadhna is to see the 'divinity' within and the 'divinity' in others! Adi shankara's disciples were trained to spread the message of divinity just like sri ramakrishna's disciples. Sdhna is on the right path only when the sadhak realizes the self not when he learns to walk on water or swallow fire! also, philomena- please answer this question for me? 1) did sri ramakrishna charge his disciples an enormous amountb of money for courses in yoga and meditation like the members of mahesh yogi's tm movement? 2) do adi shankara's disciples distribute 'janan' and 'bhakti' in a 'capsule' form? 3) what are the messages of enlightened souls? "know thyself" ot "tat twam asi" - AND NOT teaching people how to 'levitate' ! 4) also, sri ramakrishna, sri ramana could have used their siddhis to cure their own cancer but they did not and why? because, both knew that they are beyond this body and they had to work out their 'prabdha' karma in tis lifetime itself. there is only one reason for human birth -that is to 'realize the divinity within' and to realize that this human body is given only to serve others- PAROPAKARAM IDAM SHARIRAM! not to exploit other fellow beings and make money and use the Tantra shastra for such material gains! love and peace! devi_bhakta Thanks Adi and Philomena for your discussions on this important topic. For my two cents, siddhis are not so much an obstacle to spiritual advancement as a by-product of it. The Tantric approach to Self-realization is a process of "becoming" (or experientially realizing one's Oneness with) God/dess. Is it not natural that the more a person realizes that they are one with the Universe -- in other words, the more their consciousness expands beyond the limitations of their apparent physical being -- the more their mental and physical abilities will expand too? Siddhis are simply physical and psychic functions that seem "magical" to those observers on a lower plane of understanding -- much as the images flashing on a TV set might seem magical to a primitive people unfamiliar with electricity and wave theory and their practical applications. Once you teach them the ideas being building a TV set, the "magic" drops away -- you've given them a deeper understanding of the true nature of the physical world and its workings, and -- with that understanding -- TV is no big deal. But is TV the ultimate meaning of electricity and cosmic waves? Of course not. You can go infinitely deeper into those topics; you can do wonderfully more worthwhile things by harnessing their power -- but TV's an attractive distraction. Many a kid has flunked a physics exam by ignoring their studies to watch TV, play a video game, wander around the cyberspace ... in other words, they sacrificed an understanding of their world in order to indulge in a by-product of that understanding. And that's the danger of Siddhis -- getting distracted from your journey to Truth by the appeal of what are essentially parlour tricks. It is said that worship of the Ten Mahavidyas ("Wisdom Goddesses") of Tantra is a very dangerous sadhana indeed -- if one is seeking the powerful siddhis these goddesses offer. A mispronounced mantra, a botched ritual -- can lead to insanity or death. But approaching these goddesses as Mother -- with unconditional love and selfless devotion -- is perfectly safe. That's because you're not trying to spar with them; to wheedle and coerce the granting of special powers. You're simple saying, "Mother, You are Everything; I feel like I'm nothing -- please take me in, guide me, protect me, and show me Who I am." And guess what? She'll do just that -- the siddhis, which, again, are simply by-products of realizing one's divinity -- will come too, automatically. But you won't be a bit impressed by them. You won't even care. The Tantric who seeks siddhis is much more clever, much cagier, much more adept in the subtleties of Tantric ritual than the mere devotee. But for what? It is as if they're skillfully bargaining with a car salesman for an incredible number of extra bells and whistles - - sunroof, CD player, top-shelf speakers; the works -- but forgetting to ask for the vehicle itself. What's the point? Aum Maatangyai Namahe adi_shakthi16 bingo! db! *****Siddhis are simply physical and psychic functions that seem "magical" to those observers on a lower plane of understanding****** 100%true..... *****And that's the danger of Siddhis -- getting distracted from your journey to Truth by the appeal of what are essentially parlour tricks. **** 100%true again! ******It is said that worship of the Ten Mahavidyas ("Wisdom Goddesses") of Tantra is a very dangerous sadhana indeed -- if one is seeking the powerful siddhis these goddesses offer. A mispronounced mantra, a botched ritual -- can lead to insanity or death. But approaching these goddesses as Mother -- with unconditional love and selfless devotion -- is perfectly safe. That's because you're not trying to spar with them; to wheedle and coerce the granting of special powers. You're simple saying, "Mother, You are Everything; I feel like I'm nothing -- please take me in, guide me, protect me, and show me Who I am." And guess what? She'll do just that -- the siddhis, which, again, are simply by-products of realizing one's divinity -- will come too, automatically.******* again, you aqre stating it as it is! LOVE THE DIVINE MOTHER FOR LOVE'S SAKE without expectations of reward! ******The Tantric who seeks siddhis is much more clever, much cagier, much more adept in the subtleties of Tantric ritual than the mere devotee.******* EXACTLY!!! do we learn Tantra to expand our consciousness or to improve our sexual performance? do we pray to bagalamukhi to defeat our opponebnts in court? DO WE PRAY TO UGRA TARA TO DEFEAT OUR ENEMIES AND MAKE OUR PARTNER LOVE US MORE? FINALLY, can tantra teach us to respect all forms and manifestations of the divine mother without being unduly worried about iconography ? hey, db--- i worship the true devi bhakta in you! love and more love yeshe_o >>It is said that worship of the Ten Mahavidyas ("Wisdom Goddesses") of Tantra is a very dangerous sadhana indeed -- if one is seeking the powerful siddhis these goddesses offer. A mispronounced mantra, a botched ritual -- can lead to insanity or death. But approaching these goddesses as Mother -- with unconditional love and selfless devotion -- is perfectly safe. That's because you're not trying to spar with them; to wheedle and coerce the granting of special powers. You're simple saying, "Mother, You are Everything; I feel like I'm nothing -- please take me in, guide me, protect me, and show me Who I am." And guess what? She'll do just that -- the siddhis, which, again, are simply by-products of realizing one's divinity -- will come too, automatically. But you won't be a bit impressed by them. You won't even care.<< What a blessing ... all is impermanet; but the path, the dear ones who help us and the end result our liberation and enlightenment. Ayra Tara is always present with me and my children and my family as are all the Buddhas. Yes we pursue the path in devotion, and compassion towards one another, and all else is automatic. Thank you for this -with palms together Yeshe baba108 The Holy Mother, is she not consciousness itself and all it's manifestations - Maa's Leela - Jai Maa Love baba amritam2000 Respected Baba108 I fully agree with you that everything is the Leela of Maa, the Shakti. And I fully agree with philomina7 also that Indians Insulted. But Indians have much tolerance as may be it is also the Leela of Ma. As I feel everything is predestined. I am not a sadhaka but just an ordinary person and I read whatever I find to read. I have seen many persons trying to awaken Kundalini Power with the help of yoga, hatha yoga even i have come across persons who had adverse effects while trying to play with the Kundalini Power but every body called themselves Sadhaka. But have you ever come across any person any Yogi any Sadhaka who has achieved any of the Siddhis ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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