Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 Dear adi shakti and friends, thank you for your insights on kaula marga.. as i am not so familiar with some terms you mention, could you explain me a little bit.. what do you exactly mean with vira sadhana? in what way does it differ from shakti sadhana? what is exactly samya marga? and swatantra? (do these words have other synonyms?) thanks again.. and may your light shine uncompromisingly love it is.. , "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: > hi spurna, welcome aboard! > > i just visited the web link you posted! fabulous! chandogya > upanishads is one of my favorites- and the dialogue between svetaketu > and his father uddalaka muni is the most enlightening treatise of > all! Tat twam asi!!!! you are that! > > yES, IN TANTRA SPIRITUAL PERFECTION CAN BE ATTAINED USING THE > FULFILLMENT OF ALL WORLDLY DESIRES... BHOGHA CAN BE CONVERTED INTO A > VEHICLE for YOGA - THAT IS 'VIRA' SADHANA IS ALL ABOUT! om for bhogha > and yoga but bhogha can be converted into yoga A man can fall due to > the lust of a woman like RAVANA but tantra teaches how the same man > can attain spiritual perfection by using his love for his partner > into the sublime love for the ultimate reality. > > yes, your quotation is most appropriate... > > "If a man is a YOGIN, he does not enjoy sensual pleasures; while one > who enjoys them cannot know YOGA. That is why the KAULA (a TANTRIC > School) way, containing the essence of sexual enjoyment and YOGA, is > superior to all paths. In the KAULA approach, sexual enjoyment turns > into YOGA directly. What in conventional religion is considered sin > becomes meritorious." > -- KULARNAVA TANTRA > > how to use wordly desires to attain the soul's yearning for spiritual > perfection -is the essence of tantra... using *sexuality* to > completely transcend it -that is the kaula path- you said it, kiddo! > > even our shaivite scholar abinavagupta says... > > > [Tantric schools], there is physical union (SAMGHATTA) between VIRA > (the male) and YOGINI (the female). The purpose is only to stimulate > NITYA-ANANDA (the eternal beatitude) by means of the contact of the > sex organs. This contact gives intense delight [for the body and > spirit]. > -- A text by ABHINAVAGUPTA > > > > > yes, i would love to share with you the many links that i access on > kaula marga- likewise, please continue to enrich us with all > insights on this subject... > > but, i am myself more inclined towards the 'samya' marga od adi > shankaras and love 'swatantra' tantra approach- more suited to my > temperament... > > love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2002 Report Share Posted March 21, 2002 dear spurna, thanks ! my pleasure! dear one, i am rushing to work!!! i owe, i owe, so to work i go!!!! lol!!!! but i will come back in the evening and post a detailed response on 1) vira sadhana 2) samaya marga (read earlier posts on this ) by typing 'samaya' in search and it will bring up those posts... 3) swatantantra tantra... sorry, more later!!! love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2002 Report Share Posted March 23, 2002 hi spurna, dear one , i apologize for the delay in responding to your queries... first, let us take up the vast subject of 'vira' sadhnaa. before discussing that, we need to look into what are called the 'bhavas' in tantra... bhava means 'emotion' - basically, in tantric sadhana, there are three kinds of bhavas... the spiritual aspirants are divided into three major groups according to their mental disposition or gunas or emotions.. 1) pashu- animal like 2) vira- heroic 3) divya- divine IWho is a person of pashu bhava? Such a person is fully absorbed in wordly activities - he is easily swayed by passions ; he is a slave to lust and greed; he cannot master his emotions of anger and envy ,he is full of hate; he is a victim of 'fear' etc... on account of all this animal-like dispostion, such a person is not allowed to practice the pancha-makaras. (the five rituals ) OUR LORD SHIVA IS CALLED **** PASHUPATI**** because he has conquered all the 'pashu-like' qualities... more on this later in another post.... ********************************************************************** who is competent to practice the ritual with the five ingredients or makaras? It is undoubetedly the sadhaka with the heroic disposition or what we call vira.Such a man has the strength and the courage to' play with FIRE' ! FOR HE CAN EASILY BURN AWAY HIS WORLDLY BONDS AND TIES. how? for he has self-control and even in the most trying circumstances such a man of heroic disposition does not yield to temptation. our hero is fearless; pure in motive; gentle in speech; physically strong; intelligent; courageous; full of virtue and still humble and only values what is good and just. it is a person who has this 'heroic' disposition that can practice 'vira' sadhana... more on this ln another post! ********************************************************************** now, we come to the third and the best of all sadhakas! The sadhaka of divine (divya) disposition has risen above all the bonds of desire and has nothing to sublimate.such a sadhaka is the beloved of all! he is , introspective, steady, sagacious, and solicitous about others' welfare. He never swerves from the path of truth and can do no evil. Good in every way, he is regarded as the embodiment of Siva. In his worship he does not need physical aids for rousing his spiritual emotions; the meditative mood is spontaneous with him. He is always in ecstasy, enjoying `inner woman and wine.' For the five ingredients used by a hero he substitutes consciousness (chit), bliss (ananda), and exaltation (bhava). our beloved shri ramakrishna, adi shankara, shri ramana maharishi, shri aurobindo , swami vivekananda are all spiritual aspirants of *divya * disposition... ********************************************************************** how can bhavas be compared to the three gunas? In the pashu bhava, the dominant guna is *tamas* - characteristics such as DOUBT (BHRANTI), , drowsiness (tandra), and sloth (alasya).BUT, paSHU DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN ****bad**** ALL IT MEANS IS SUCH A PERSON IS bound by the bonds (pasha) of worldly passions these are pity (daya), ignorance and delusion (moha), fear (bhaya), 4) shame (lajja), disgust (ghrina), family (kula),) custom (shila),and caste (varna).SUCH A MAN OF PASHU BHAVA IS A WORLDLY MAN- who is in bondage.! >now, how can a man of pashu bhava free himself from the pashas? >BY SURRENDERING TO THE DIVINE MOTHER - *****pashupasha-vimochini*****, Liberatrix of the pashu from his bondage! to be continued... spurna, hope this helps.... hari om tat sat!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2002 Report Share Posted March 24, 2002 dear adi shakti, these words taste like sugar.. i desire the taste.. but whether there comes more or not.. the taste cannot go away.. the desire already tastes.. no problem for the delay.. thank you very very much for your posts.. if you can, continue.. thank you.. one love ps: are there special connections between vira and dyvia sadhana and kaula marga? , "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: > hi spurna, dear one , i apologize for the delay in responding to your > queries... > > first, let us take up the vast subject of 'vira' sadhnaa. > > before discussing that, we need to look into what are called > the 'bhavas' in tantra... bhava means 'emotion' - > > basically, in tantric sadhana, there are three kinds of bhavas... the > spiritual aspirants are divided into three major groups according to > their mental disposition or gunas or emotions.. > > 1) pashu- animal like > > 2) vira- heroic > > 3) divya- divine > > IWho is a person of pashu bhava? > > Such a person is fully absorbed in wordly activities - he is easily > swayed by passions ; he is a slave to lust and greed; he cannot > master his emotions of anger and envy ,he is full of hate; he is a > victim of 'fear' etc... > > on account of all this animal-like dispostion, such a person is not > allowed to practice the pancha-makaras. (the five rituals ) > > OUR LORD SHIVA IS CALLED **** PASHUPATI**** because he has conquered > all the 'pashu-like' qualities... more on this later in another > post.... > ********************************************************************** > > who is competent to practice the ritual with the > five ingredients or makaras? > > It is undoubetedly the sadhaka with the heroic disposition or what we > call vira.Such a man has the strength and the courage to' play > with FIRE' ! FOR HE CAN EASILY BURN AWAY HIS WORLDLY > BONDS AND TIES. how? for he has self-control and even > in the most trying circumstances such a man of > heroic disposition does not yield to temptation. our > hero is fearless; pure in motive; gentle in speech; > physically strong; intelligent; courageous; full of virtue > and still humble and only values what is good and > just. > > it is a person who has this 'heroic' disposition that can > practice 'vira' sadhana... more on this ln another post! > > ********************************************************************** > > now, we come to the third and the best of > all sadhakas! The sadhaka of divine (divya) > disposition has risen above all the bonds of desire and has > nothing to sublimate.such a sadhaka is the beloved of all! > he is , introspective, steady, sagacious, > and solicitous about others' welfare. He never > swerves from the path of truth and can do no evil. Good > in every way, he is regarded as the embodiment of > Siva. In his worship he does not need physical aids for > rousing his spiritual emotions; the meditative mood is > spontaneous with him. He is always in ecstasy, enjoying > `inner woman and wine.' For the five ingredients used by > a hero he substitutes consciousness (chit), bliss > (ananda), and exaltation (bhava). > > our beloved shri ramakrishna, adi shankara, shri ramana maharishi, > shri aurobindo , swami vivekananda are all spiritual aspirants of > *divya * disposition... > ********************************************************************** > how can bhavas be compared to the three gunas? In the pashu bhava, the > dominant guna is *tamas* - characteristics such as DOUBT > (BHRANTI), , drowsiness (tandra), and sloth (alasya).BUT, > paSHU DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN ****bad**** ALL IT > MEANS IS SUCH A PERSON IS bound by the bonds (pasha) of > worldly passions > these are pity (daya), ignorance and delusion (moha), fear > (bhaya), 4) shame (lajja), disgust > (ghrina), family (kula),) custom > (shila),and caste (varna).SUCH A MAN OF PASHU > BHAVA IS A WORLDLY MAN- who is in bondage.! > > >now, how can a man of pashu bhava free himself from > the pashas? >BY SURRENDERING TO THE DIVINE > MOTHER - *****pashupasha-vimochini*****, Liberatrix of > the pashu from his bondage! > > > to be continued... > > spurna, hope this helps.... > > hari om tat sat!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2002 Report Share Posted March 25, 2002 namaste adi shakti, sorry for my delay.. this is the third time i try to reply.. anyway, thank you very much for the interesting post(s).. some other questions.. did i understand it right that the vira sadhaka has not 'realised' parabrahman while the divya sadhaka has? or has this nothing to do with it? is kaula related to vira or divya sadhaka? with regard to your other post on samaya worship (895), are vira and divya sadhaka related to samaya (pure internal worship) and misra (mixture of internal and external worship)? do you view kaula marga more like samaya or misra? can you tell me something about swatantra? do you know any good books/weblinks on kaula and samaya marga? one love, om shanti.. , "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: > hi spurna, dear one , i apologize for the delay in responding to your > queries... > > first, let us take up the vast subject of 'vira' sadhnaa. > > before discussing that, we need to look into what are called > the 'bhavas' in tantra... bhava means 'emotion' - > > basically, in tantric sadhana, there are three kinds of bhavas... the > spiritual aspirants are divided into three major groups according to > their mental disposition or gunas or emotions.. > > 1) pashu- animal like > > 2) vira- heroic > > 3) divya- divine > > IWho is a person of pashu bhava? > > Such a person is fully absorbed in wordly activities - he is easily > swayed by passions ; he is a slave to lust and greed; he cannot > master his emotions of anger and envy ,he is full of hate; he is a > victim of 'fear' etc... > > on account of all this animal-like dispostion, such a person is not > allowed to practice the pancha-makaras. (the five rituals ) > > OUR LORD SHIVA IS CALLED **** PASHUPATI**** because he has conquered > all the 'pashu-like' qualities... more on this later in another > post.... > ********************************************************************** > > who is competent to practice the ritual with the > five ingredients or makaras? > > It is undoubetedly the sadhaka with the heroic disposition or what we > call vira.Such a man has the strength and the courage to' play > with FIRE' ! FOR HE CAN EASILY BURN AWAY HIS WORLDLY > BONDS AND TIES. how? for he has self-control and even > in the most trying circumstances such a man of > heroic disposition does not yield to temptation. our > hero is fearless; pure in motive; gentle in speech; > physically strong; intelligent; courageous; full of virtue > and still humble and only values what is good and > just. > > it is a person who has this 'heroic' disposition that can > practice 'vira' sadhana... more on this ln another post! > > ********************************************************************** > > now, we come to the third and the best of > all sadhakas! The sadhaka of divine (divya) > disposition has risen above all the bonds of desire and has > nothing to sublimate.such a sadhaka is the beloved of all! > he is , introspective, steady, sagacious, > and solicitous about others' welfare. He never > swerves from the path of truth and can do no evil. Good > in every way, he is regarded as the embodiment of > Siva. In his worship he does not need physical aids for > rousing his spiritual emotions; the meditative mood is > spontaneous with him. He is always in ecstasy, enjoying > `inner woman and wine.' For the five ingredients used by > a hero he substitutes consciousness (chit), bliss > (ananda), and exaltation (bhava). > > our beloved shri ramakrishna, adi shankara, shri ramana maharishi, > shri aurobindo , swami vivekananda are all spiritual aspirants of > *divya * disposition... > ********************************************************************** > how can bhavas be compared to the three gunas? In the pashu bhava, the > dominant guna is *tamas* - characteristics such as DOUBT > (BHRANTI), , drowsiness (tandra), and sloth (alasya).BUT, > paSHU DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN ****bad**** ALL IT > MEANS IS SUCH A PERSON IS bound by the bonds (pasha) of > worldly passions > these are pity (daya), ignorance and delusion (moha), fear > (bhaya), 4) shame (lajja), disgust > (ghrina), family (kula),) custom > (shila),and caste (varna).SUCH A MAN OF PASHU > BHAVA IS A WORLDLY MAN- who is in bondage.! > > >now, how can a man of pashu bhava free himself from > the pashas? >BY SURRENDERING TO THE DIVINE > MOTHER - *****pashupasha-vimochini*****, Liberatrix of > the pashu from his bondage! > > > to be continued... > > spurna, hope this helps.... > > hari om tat sat!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2002 Report Share Posted March 29, 2002 wow, i posted this one on sunday.. excuse me.. just ignore this post please.. love, sphurna , "sphurna" <sphurna> wrote: > > dear adi shakti, > > these words taste like sugar.. > i desire the taste.. > but whether there comes more or not.. > the taste cannot go away.. > the desire already tastes.. > > no problem for the delay.. thank you very very much for your posts.. > if you can, continue.. thank you.. > one love > > ps: are there special connections between vira and dyvia sadhana and > kaula marga? > > > > , "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16> > wrote: > > hi spurna, dear one , i apologize for the delay in responding to > your > > queries... > > > > first, let us take up the vast subject of 'vira' sadhnaa. > > > > before discussing that, we need to look into what are called > > the 'bhavas' in tantra... bhava means 'emotion' - > > > > basically, in tantric sadhana, there are three kinds of bhavas... > the > > spiritual aspirants are divided into three major groups according > to > > their mental disposition or gunas or emotions.. > > > > 1) pashu- animal like > > > > 2) vira- heroic > > > > 3) divya- divine > > > > IWho is a person of pashu bhava? > > > > Such a person is fully absorbed in wordly activities - he is easily > > swayed by passions ; he is a slave to lust and greed; he cannot > > master his emotions of anger and envy ,he is full of hate; he is a > > victim of 'fear' etc... > > > > on account of all this animal-like dispostion, such a person is not > > allowed to practice the pancha-makaras. (the five rituals ) > > > > OUR LORD SHIVA IS CALLED **** PASHUPATI**** because he has > conquered > > all the 'pashu-like' qualities... more on this later in another > > post.... > > > ********************************************************************** > > > > who is competent to practice the ritual with the > > five ingredients or makaras? > > > > It is undoubetedly the sadhaka with the heroic disposition or what > we > > call vira.Such a man has the strength and the courage to' play > > with FIRE' ! FOR HE CAN EASILY BURN AWAY HIS WORLDLY > > BONDS AND TIES. how? for he has self-control and even > > in the most trying circumstances such a man of > > heroic disposition does not yield to temptation. our > > hero is fearless; pure in motive; gentle in speech; > > physically strong; intelligent; courageous; full of virtue > > and still humble and only values what is good and > > just. > > > > it is a person who has this 'heroic' disposition that can > > practice 'vira' sadhana... more on this ln another post! > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > > > now, we come to the third and the best of > > all sadhakas! The sadhaka of divine (divya) > > disposition has risen above all the bonds of desire and has > > nothing to sublimate.such a sadhaka is the beloved of all! > > he is , introspective, steady, sagacious, > > and solicitous about others' welfare. He never > > swerves from the path of truth and can do no evil. Good > > in every way, he is regarded as the embodiment of > > Siva. In his worship he does not need physical aids for > > rousing his spiritual emotions; the meditative mood is > > spontaneous with him. He is always in ecstasy, enjoying > > `inner woman and wine.' For the five ingredients used by > > a hero he substitutes consciousness (chit), bliss > > (ananda), and exaltation (bhava). > > > > our beloved shri ramakrishna, adi shankara, shri ramana maharishi, > > shri aurobindo , swami vivekananda are all spiritual aspirants of > > *divya * disposition... > > > ********************************************************************** > > how can bhavas be compared to the three gunas? In the pashu bhava, > the > > dominant guna is *tamas* - characteristics such as DOUBT > > (BHRANTI), , drowsiness (tandra), and sloth (alasya).BUT, > > paSHU DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN ****bad**** ALL IT > > MEANS IS SUCH A PERSON IS bound by the bonds (pasha) of > > worldly passions > > these are pity (daya), ignorance and delusion (moha), fear > > (bhaya), 4) shame (lajja), disgust > > (ghrina), family (kula),) custom > > (shila),and caste (varna).SUCH A MAN OF PASHU > > BHAVA IS A WORLDLY MAN- who is in bondage.! > > > > >now, how can a man of pashu bhava free himself from > > the pashas? >BY SURRENDERING TO THE DIVINE > > MOTHER - *****pashupasha-vimochini*****, Liberatrix of > > the pashu from his bondage! > > > > > > to be continued... > > > > spurna, hope this helps.... > > > > hari om tat sat!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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