MAYA- the fascinating femme fatale in tantra and vedanta!!!!

[Guest guest]

Adi_shakthi wrote:

>now, you pundits out there- could you please break this all tghis

>high-sounding philosophy to us! please!!! colin, devi_bhakta, omprem

>and any other member willing to share this big responsibility of

>presenting MAYA as viewed by tantriks in simple day to day

>language!!!

>till then 'maya' remains shrouded in mystery !!!!!

>love and hari om tat sat!!!

 

Some people compare the things of maya to toys which the Mother makes for

her children.

 

It's natural to enjoy these things, yet there are limitations to the enjoyment.

 

1. The things of maya don't last for ever. A child with a nice new toy may

be very happy, but sooner or later the toy wears out or gets broken, and

then the child is sad...

 

2. Often we children become so fascinated with the Mother's little gifts

that we forget all about their giver.

 

Because the toys are so fascinating, and because they don't last for ever,

some children become angry with them. That is natural too.

 

Yet, the toys are part of the Mother-child relationship. The relationship

is the important thing, not the toys themselves.

 

If we remember the Mother, then we can enjoy her gifts in a different way.

 

Love,

 

Colin.

[Guest guest]

Dear Adi_shakthi,

 

So sorry to hear about your sister-in-law. I don't blame you for feeling

shook up.

 

Thank you for your thoughts about maya. I didn't know about the American

toy manufacturer with that name, it's an interesting piece of information.

 

Very encouraged by your response to the paintings at www.yogamagik.com/ferment.

 

Love,

Colin.

>dear colin, thank you ! this is a fascinating theory - in fact, this

>is not a theory- this is as 'real' as it gets...

>strangely, there is a toy manufacturer in u.s.a called 'maya' - they

>make toys for children - i happen to know this only because i am a

>proud grandma of a very delightful grandson and like all grannma - i

>indulge him a lot- he owns many 'maya' toys...

>p.s.btw saw your website 'ferment' while cruising on the net... i

>luved your paintings.

>p.s. forgive any flaws in presentation- a little 'shook' up tonite as

>i just learned i lost my sister-in-law in a tragic car accident.

[Guest guest]

OM Adi Shakthi

 

My understanding of Tantric Yoga is that it arose partly in reaction

to the extreme dualism of Patanjali's Classical Yoga and partly in

response to some alleged dualistic inconsistencies of Advaita

Vedanta.

 

The argument against Advaita Vedanta can be stated a couple

of ways.

 

Georg Feuerstein frames the problem thusly: "If there is only one

Self, why should such a struggle be involved in realizing it ? Why

do we have to think of the world, and thus the body-mind, as an

enemy that has to be overcome? To put it more correctly: Why do

we have to abandon pleasure in order to realize bliss?"

 

To Feuerstein, one can reply that the difference between self and

Self is simply one of short-term and long-term vision. One can

play all the time in the sun but when winter comes along how will

we survive? The answer is that we keep an eye on the

approaching winter and do not let ourselves be carried away by

the pleasant, carefree nature of summer but rather prepare for

winter while being in summer. From a spiritual point of view, one

can give in to the senses and the narrowness of vision that

entails or one can adopt a wider field of vision within which the

sensory data is less primary and other means of awareness are

developed. (These other means of awareness, the

consciousness of the chakras, will not be realized if the senses

are directed outward.)

 

Another way the alleged problem of Advaita Vedanta has been

stated is to ask, "If our true nature is already awake, enlightened,

and free, and if we realize this awake nature when we're not

striving, grasping, or clinging, then why do we need spiritual

practice". (Stephen Cope). There are a number of problematic

'ifs' in this approach and the conclusion doesn't follow from

them. Yes, our true nature is already awake, enlightened and

free but it is also veiled and inert. We don't realize that we already

are that which we seek and the soul does not act, it merely is. Its

presence is enough, however, to draw our fragmented mind to it

by degrees. The last 'if' regarding why do we need spiritual

practice if our spiritual nature is knowable 'when we're not

striving, grasping, or clinging', is a circular argument because

'not striving, grasping or clinging' is spiritual practice.

 

So, the alleged problems of Advaita Vedanta are non-existent as

far as I'm concerned. Advaita Vedanta remains Advaita Vedanta,

supremely non-dual and with more simplicity than Tantric Yoga,

or, at least, my limited notion of Tantric Yoga.

 

If this is so, then Tantric Yoga arose on a false premise and

overly complicated itself needlessly.

 

I would appreciate reading your response as well as the

response of some of the other learned Sadhakas as you point

out the errors in my thinking here.

 

OM Namah Sivaya

 

Omprem

 

 

 

 

 

, "adi_shakthi16"

<adi_shakthi16> wrote:

> What in the Tantras is known as vAhyAbhAsa or the

manifestation of a

> non-ego (anahambhAva) within the Pure Ego (shuddhAtma)

but appearing

> as external to it is tha Radical Nescience (mUlavidyA) of

Vedanta.

> This non-ego is the so called Avyakta (Unmanifest) or Jada

Sakti

> (Matter). But the Freedom or the Spiritual Power (Chit Sakti) of

the

> Lord, as described in the Tantras, is beyond the Nescience

referred

> to above, and to this Power the Advaita Vedanta seems to be a

> stranger.

>

> In as much as the Avidya itself or the Material Power is a

product of

> the Spiritual Power which is the ultimate source of all existence

> there is no discrepancy in the statement, often found in Tantric

> Literature, that this Power has three distinct states of its

> existence: -

>

> (a) During the universal dissolution when the Self is free from

all

> vikalpas the Sakti exists as Pure Chit Sakti or Chit Prakrti.

>

> (b) When the vikalpas are on the point of merging - when

though there

> is no vikalpa as such there is yet a tendency in the direction of

> vikalpas - the Sakti is called Maya Sakti or Jada Prakrti.

>

> © But when the vikalpas are fully developed and materiality

becomes

> dense the Sakti appears as Avidya.

>

> It has already been observed that the appearance of the

universe

> follows upon the self-expression of the Divine Power and the

Cosmic

> End follows from the withdrawal of the self-same Power.

>

> After the period of Cosmic Night is over the Will of the Lord, in

co-

> operation with the mature adrsta of Jivas, manifests only

partially,

> as it were, the Essence of the Self, whereby the Self is

revealed as

> limited.

>

> The appearance of limitation is thus the emergence of not-self,

known

> as Avidya or Jada Sakti, called also by the name of Void

(shUnya), or

> Prakriti or Absolute Negation or Darkness (tamaH) or Akasa.

This is

> the first stage in the order of creation and represents the first

> limitation imposed on the Limitless. 7 The erroneous belief,

> generated through the Freedom of the Lord - the Self - that the

Ego

> is partial (ekadeshika) and not full and universal (pUrNa) is

> responsible for the appearance of this Something which being

a

> portion of the Self is yet outside of it and free from self-

> consciousness and is described as not-self or by any other

name .

>

>

> Thus the Supreme Reality splits itself spontaneously, as it

were,

> into two sections - one appearing as the subject and the other

as the

> object. The Purnahanta which is the essence of Supreme

Reality

> disappears after this cleavage: the portion to which limited

egoism

> attaches being the subject and the other portion free from

egoism the

> object. The object as thus making its appearance is the

Unmanifest

> (avyakta) Nature from which the entire Creation emanates and

which is

> perceived by the subject as distinct from itself.

>

> It has been observed that Chaitanya is of the nature of

self-luminous

> Light (sphurat.h prakAsha), which may shine on itself (svAtmA),

in

> which case it is known as Ahanta, or I-ness may rest on the

Non-ego

> (anAtmA) and express itself as Idanta or This-ness. The

essence of

> Chaitanya consists in the fact that the light (prakAsha) is

always

> confined to itself. This universal Ego or 'I' stands, behind all

> dualism. The Supreme Ego is universal, as there is nothing to

limit

> (parichCheda) or to differentiate (vyAvR^itti) it, and the entire

> visible universe exists in identity with it. But this characteristic

> by its very nature is absent from Matter (jaDa), which is not self-

> manifest. Just as light and heat co-exist in fire, in the same

way

> universal Ahanta and Freedom or Sakti co-exist in Chaitanya.

This

> freedom is Maya which though essentially identical with

Chaitanya

> (chidekarUpa) brings out varieties of an infinite kind, but in

> bringing out this variety it does not in the least swerve from the

> Essence.

>

> The appearance of the Universe in Pure Chaitanya is the

action of

> Avidya, which has three distinct stages:

>

>

> (a) The first is the germinal state (bIjAvasthA), when the

material

> power, which is still in its earliest phase of manifestation, is

> pure. Matter does not assert itself at this stage and

consequently

> there is no differentiation in experience. In other words, it does

> not yet appear as distinct from Chaitanya, though potentially it

> exists. This stage is represented by the five pure Tattvas, viz.,

> Siva, Sakti, Sadasiva, Suddha vidya and Isvara.

>

>

> (i) The Avidya, which has been described above as being the

Chaitanya

> in its limited appearance as an object external to the subject is

> called Siva. In pure Chaitanya, owing to the play of Its own Will,

an

> infinite number of limited aspects (spA.msha) arises. These

are

> mutually distinct. From this point of view to every limited aspect

of

> Chit there is a corresponding object external to it

(bAhyAbhAsa), but

> to the Unlimited Chit or Pure Self (pUrNashrAtmA = parashiva)

there

> is no externality. The universal (sAmAnya) common to all the

pure and

> limited Chit aspects referred to above is called Siva Tattva.

This

> Tattva is thus a Samanya holding within it all the Visesas, but

Para

> Siva or Pure Self is transcendent and above both Samanya

and Visesa.

> Hence Siva Tattva may be more properly described as Pure

Chaitanya in

> its general but conditioned form, free from all Vikalpas and is

to be

> distinguished from the Absolute proper.

>

> (ii) The appearance of Siva (parichChinna nirvikalpachit.h) as

aham.h

> is called Sakti. Although this self-presentative character

> (aha.mbhAsana) is in the essence of Chit, so that there can be

in

> fact no differentiation between Siva and Sakti as such, the Chit

is

> nevertheless known as Siva in so far as it is free from all

visesas

> and as Sakti by virtue of its characteristic self-awareness

> (aha.mbhAsana).

>

> When the self-presentation (aha.mbhAsana) is no longer

confined to

> the Self but is extended to the not-self or the object

(mahAshUnya)

> external to the Self it is known as Sadasiva. This state marks

the

> identification of the Self with the not-self in the form "ahameva

> idam.h" and indicates predominance of spirit over matter.

>

> (iv) But when matter prevails and the consciousness assumes

the

> form "idam.h aham.h" the state is technically called Isvara.

>

> (v) The term Suddha Vidya is reserved for the state which

represents

> an equality in the presentation of the subjective and objective

> elements in consciousness.

>

> (b) The second stage in the evolution of Avidya, described as

> a~nkurAvasthA, represents a further development of difference

or

> materiality, when the subtle products of matter and spirit make

their

> appearance. In this mixed condition both spirit and matter are

> equally predominant and the seven mixed (mishra) tattvas, viz,

Maya,

> Kala, Vidya, Raga, Kala and Niyati reveal themselves.

>

> (i) The confirmation of difference due to the Free Will of the

> Supreme, which characterises the second stage, has the

effect of

> reversing the normal relation between spirit and matter. Thus

while

> in the first stage described above Spirit or Chit Sakti dominates

> matter or Jada Sakti which exists in a rudimentary state,

merged in

> spirit or Self, the second stage shows the preponderance of

matter

> over spirit. Consciousness loses its supremacy and becomes

a quality

> inherent in the material subject. All this is due to the

emergence

> and development of bhedasa.mkalpa in Chaitanya. This

material

> subject - which is matter prevailing over spirit and related to it

as

> a substance to its quality - is called Maya.

>

> (ii-vi) The five aspects of Maya are the five so-called Kanchukas

> which are the five eternal Saktis of Para Siva in a limited form.

The

> obscuring power of Maya acts is a veil as it were upon the

> Omnipotence, Omniscience, Self-contentment, Eternity and

Freedom of

> the Supreme Self and thus acting is known as Kala, Vidya,

Raga, Kala

> and Niyati respectively.

>

> (vii) The Pure Self as obscured by Maya and its fivefold

activities

> appears as Purusha with its limitations of action, knowledge,

> contentment, eternity and freedom.

>

> © The third or grossest stage in the evolution of Avidya is

> represented by the dense products of the mixed tattvas, where

matter

> is overwhelmingly strong. This stands for the group of the

twenty

> four tattvas, from the Primary Prakriti down to Prithivi,

> constituting the material order.

>

> Prakriti, with which the lower creation begins, is indeed the

> assemblage (samaShTi) of the Vasanas of all persons with

various and

> beginningless Karmans: it may be fitly described as the body

of the

> Karman Samskaras of the Jivas, considered as inhering in

Chit Sakti

> or Self. This Karma vasana or Prakriti is threefold according as

the

> experience which is the moral outcome of this vasana is

pleasant or

> painful or of the nature of a comatose condition in which

neither

> pleasure nor pain is felt.

>

> The Vasanas exist in a twofold condition, as Avyakta when they

lie

> unmanifest in dreamless sleep or as Chitta when they

manifest

> themselves in dreams and wakeful states. In the dreamless

state there

> can be no experience of pleasure and pain, because the

mature Karmans

> having been worked off through experience the others which

are not

> yet ripe are not ready for fructification. It is a fact that Karmans,

> when they are matured by time, cause the Jnana Sakti of the

Conscious

> Self to move outwards and have contact with the objective

world. In a

> state of sleep such movement is naturally absent. But the

process of

> time during which the sleep continues acts on the Karmans

and matures

> some of them, so that the Jnana Sakti is allowed to come in

touch

> with the external objects or with their eemblances and sleep is

over.

> The Sakti as thus qualified by the body of Karma-Vasanas

leading to

> contact with the objects and consequent enjoyment (bhoga) is

known as

> Chitta.

>

> The Chitta differs according to the difference of Purusa but it is

> one with Prakriti in dreamless sleep. Thus the Chitta may be

viewed

> as Purusha or as Prakriti according as the conscious (chiti) or

> unconscious (avyakta) element prevails in it. It is not therefore

a

> distinct category, but falls either under Purusa or under Prakriti.

>

> hubcom.com

>

>

**********************************************************************

>

> now, you pundits out there- could you please break this all

tghis

> high-sounding philosophy to us! please!!! colin, devi_bhakta,

omprem

> and any other member willing to share this big responsibility of

> presenting MAYA as viewed by tantriks in simple day to day

> language!!!

>

> till then 'maya' remains shrouded in mystery !!!!!

>

> love and hari om tat sat!!!