Dharma - redefined....

[Guest guest]

Thank you Adi, I believe that dharma includes not even fighting for

one's country any longer. War will continue to escalate until only

war is between peace and war. Then all individuals will stand alone.

Arjuna didn't want to fight therefore in his war he might be an

exception to the rule. Because according to Buddists even a small

sin grows until purified. Killing just keeps snowballing evil until

it's all that's left. One who promotes war out of some ideation is

doomed to fail. Killing someone for a thought is spilling blood

because of imagination. This is the work of maya and mara. Doesn't

matter if ours is not to reason why, ignorance is no excuse. For this

reason I predict Baby Bush will decline in popularity until he is seen

as the moron he is. US policy in general under republicans right now

is if you can't beat them don't join them but beat them senseless.

Buddhism says must get back to dharma of ahimsa. Take Gandhi as

example. Perhaps most extraordinary figure ever. One person kills

for war then thinks about killing every time something doesn't go his

way. The mind grows coarse. Purification is a must to regain subtle

state but harder to find when apparatus of thought is dumb. Arjuna

an exception because entirely hesitant to kill at all. Then

purification not nearly as far off. Specially with God as your

charioteer. Not case in Israel, Palestine, Chechnya, Afghanistan,

Kashmir, Somalia. These all about greed and territoriality. About

primeval parts of brain not gray matter and certainly not about third

eye and crown states at all. These wars now are about first - second

chakra only. Not same at all in fact. Neither side is right in any of

these conflicts. Any more than family feuds in Apalachians, once known

in US as most ignorant backwoods morons alive. Pretty sure Kali yuga

just warming up. Only 5,000 years into the 432,000. What the hell

is in store for us. It's said enlightenment easier in Kali yuga

though since any spark of light is much much brighter in utter

darkness.

[Guest guest]

even though Gandhiji wrote that, I do not agree with

that. I would rather go by what Krishna said in Gita.

He never advocated surrendering meekly to bullies. I

think that one has to take up arms on the side of

righteousness.

But again there we have a problem which is righteous

side in this "war against terrorism?

The US side because it was attacked? But if you look

deep you will see it is Karma revisiting!! How many

massacres of innocents were justified by US in Vietnam

and South America in the name of "collateral damage".

What exactly happened in Kosovo? Was it not US forces

operating on the side of KLA that provoked Milasovic

and Co. to retaliation and was not the actions

deliberatly intended to provoke?

Was not attack of Iraq on Kuwait again engineered by

US? The evidence points that way!! (I am Indian, Hindu

and nutral- but thinking). So that is not a righteous

side.

On the side oof Al Quaida and Co. they just use these

excuses to attack innocents. They do have a

provocation on the side of Israel. But their actions

are not justified a little bit. so both sides are not

justified. Righteous people should remain nutral in

these conflicts and aid neither side.

It is said that when Mother earth is unable to

withstand the weight of evil she comes forth and

destroys the evil. Thats what Krishna did as well as

other avatars. I think we have too much evil and it is

time for an avtar.

Menon

--- adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16 wrote:

dear eve, you know what - you are right - dharma

includes not eben fighting for one's country any

longer...

 

now , YOU ARE ONE STEP AHEAD OF ME - i am proud of you

- in other words, you are saying even if your 'space'

is violated you should not take up arms ... in other

words, if india is attacked by its militant neighbour

india shoud not strike back?

 

well, this is exactly what gandhji wrote to winston

churchill ...

 

read on...

 

"ar by its very nature is evil." so gandhiji wrote a

letter on the 4th of july . 1940 was sent to Winston

Churchill.

 

" I appeal for cessation of hostilities because war is

bad in essence. You want to kill Nazism. Your soldiers

are doing the same work of destruction as the Germans.

The only difference is that perhaps yours are not as

thorough as the Germans. I venture to present you with

a nobler and a braver way worthy of the bravest

soldiers. I want you to fight Nazism without arms or

with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down

the arms you have as being useless for saving you or

humanity. Invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to

take what they want of the countries you call your

possessions. Let them take possession of your

beautiful island with your many beautiful buildings.

You will give these but not your souls not your

minds."

 

i am sure, if gandhiji were alive today he would have

written a similar letter president bush . but then ,

the question still remains ...

eve, left to you how would you tackle the problem of

global terrorism?

 

would you just sit back and relax and say " MY MOTHER

KALI IS IN CHARGE" -

" I AM JUST A MACHINE, SHE IS THE OPERATOR.

I AM A CHARIOT, SHE IS THE CHARIOTEER,"

nothing moves , not even a life except by mother's

will.

 

if that is what you believe in , eve, then you have

truly 'understood' the concept of karma and dharma and

you will attain moksha; in this lifetime only.

 

but in the real world, people stll keep score cards,

grievance list and instead pf 'forgiveness' in their

heart, they have 'revenge ' and 'blood for blood' as

their dharma... just like 'shylock' in shakespear's

merchant of venice... we all need a 'portia' like you

to make them see the forest from the trees!!!!

 

bravo, my son! bravo and cheers! this mother is really

proud of her 'dharma' son- in hinduism there are two

types of sons- one is the womb son who performs his

mother's last rites (karma putra) the other is a

dharma putra ( an adopted son) --- you indeed are my

dharma putra just like sesh, harsha,imthi .....

 

love

===============

> -- In , "Eve _69" <eve__69@h...>

> wrote:

Thank you Adi, I believe that dharma includes not

even fighting for one's country any longer. War will

continue to escalate until only war is between peace

and war. Then all

> individuals will stand alone. Arjuna didn't want to

fight therefore in his war he might be an exception to

the rule. Because according to Buddists even a small

sin grows until purified. Killing just keeps

snowballing evil until it's all that's left. One who

promotes war out of some ideation is doomed to fail.

Killing someone for a thought is spilling blood

because of imagination. This is the work of maya and

mara. Doesn't matter if ours is not to reason why,

ignorance is no excuse. For this reason I predict Baby

Bush will decline in popularity until he is seen as

the moron he is. US policy in general under

republicans right now is if you can't beat them don't

join them but beat them senseless. Buddhism says must

get back to dharma of ahimsa. Take Gandhi as example.

Perhaps most extraordinary figure ever. One person

kills for war then thinks about killing every time

something doesn't go his way. The mind grows coarse.

Purification is a must to regain subtle state but

harder to find when apparatus of thought is dumb.

Arjuna an exception because entirely hesitant to kill

at all. Then purification not nearly as far off.

Specially with God as your charioteer. Not case in

Israel, Palestine, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Kashmir,

Somalia. These all about greed and territoriality.

About primeval parts of brain not gray matter and

certainly not about third eye and crown states at all.

These wars now are about first - second chakra only.

Not same at all in fact. Neither side is right in any

of these conflicts. Any more than family feuds in

palachians, once known in US as most ignorant

backwoods morons alive. Pretty sure Kali yuga just

warming up. Only 5,000 years into the 432,000. What

the hell is in store for us. It's said enlightenment

easier in Kali yuga though since any spark of light is

much much brighter in utter darkness.

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Adi, you do me too great honors. While this is in fact what I

believe, I rarely if ever, live up to my beliefs. Yes, I eventually

do forgive even those I felt most wronged by but still I do feel

wronged at first. In fact I am highly incendiary and never back down

from a fight. So how could I have said what I said before. Well it

is what I believe. I may even fight in a war, even knowing that I am

wrong. I know this sounds contradictory. It is in fact. I am full

of contradictions. I would probably not kill to save my own life but

probably would to save my wife's. Even knowing that I would be wrong

perhaps. I am still trapped in maya regarding the extremes of peace

and war which I am discussing.I feel trapped by the gray area. But

at least I would feel wrong I think. For whatever good it is.

However, I don't blindly take up arms on someone else's words just

because of the gray area. I have to be fully convinced. Some

innocent child of Afghanistan is tomorrow's suicide bomber with the

first backpack sized nuke for America.

You mentioned children and that's interesting. I have smart pets,

maybe children soon. My pets can really get loud and bother me for

attention and I could get rid of them or stick them in their cage or

ignore them. But instead I try to outsmart them. I find them

something interesting to do, a new spot for playing, or some good

food, or something. But my theory is to not react on the level of

the action. Outsmart your opponent with peace and peaceful means.

This is true diplomacy. Bush's tendency to say, do it or else, is

going to bring mayhem to America. One word can stop a war or start

one.

The example of the nazis. Very good and provocative choice and

truely the last war of good against evil. History shall never be so

clear again. The US was uninvolved at first and was an innocent

newcomer at that point. But no longer. To me, the Nazis were the

very look of mara and overweaned ahamkara. They like Ravana sought

to conquer everything for illusory ideals. Hitler was not an Aryan

as he espoused as his racial cleansing dogma. He was a lie trying to

overtake the entire world. But truely, even as Maharishi Mahesh says

of group meditation, if we got a football stadium of people

meditating together twice a day their innate pacificm could change

the world. This is the true idea of the world taking to Ma's embrace.

This is the type of peace bomb that could explode love around the

world. Gandhi's note to Churchil wasn't incorrect from the scale of

huge yagyas, and sadhanas or tapas for changing negativity to

positivity. We are going into Navaratri, and this theme is very

appropriate. This is a theme of Devi Mahatmyam. I want to point out

that America since the atom bomb has been very much a stick in you

eye kind of country. That exuberance worked when the stakes weren't

so high but the pot has been raised and the next hand will break the

bank. We can no longer afford to bluff and use mad magazine looking

Bush as our poker face.

There is an evil within the world pushing war. It has taken on a life

of its own. The war today is Satyam against Mara. That is my belief.

Good karma must be upheld, bad karma just released. Restraint is the

key of sadhana, release of senses the way of maya. Good diplomacy

takes much work and thought, laziness brings chaos. It's the

sadhana of those of dharma which is keeping the world from blowing up

right now. Because evil snowballs and grows exponentially. Just take

the atomic weapon for instance. Even in Napolean's time he

slaughtered people in massive melees. It was a new and barbaric type

of warfare. But the bomb makes even that seem forgetable. What's for

dessert?

To answer your thought Sankara, in Christian Revelations it says of

Messiah, "If the days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved."

Finally, in Jewish Dead Sea Scrolls is the final battle of Armegeddon

showing Israel against all Arab nations being led by the Messiah and

the whole hosts of heaven. Very much an offshoot of Mahabharata.

Maybe theme was copied from that epic? Perhaps a scholar here knows

dates of both documents?

-

sankara menon

Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:00 PM

Re: Re: Dharma - redefined....

even though Gandhiji wrote that, I do not agree withthat. I would

rather go by what Krishna said in Gita.He never advocated

surrendering meekly to bullies. Ithink that one has to take up arms

on the side ofrighteousness. But again there we have a problem which

is righteousside in this "war against terrorism?The US side because

it was attacked? But if you lookdeep you will see it is Karma

revisiting!! How manymassacres of innocents were justified by US in

Vietnamand South America in the name of "collateral damage".What

exactly happened in Kosovo? Was it not US forcesoperating on the side

of KLA that provoked Milasovicand Co. to retaliation and was not the

actionsdeliberatly intended to provoke?Was not attack of Iraq on

Kuwait again engineered byUS? The evidence points that way!! (I am

Indian, Hinduand nutral- but thinking). So that is not a

righteousside.On the side oof Al Quaida and Co. they just use

theseexcuses to attack innocents. They do have aprovocation on the

side of Israel. But their actionsare not justified a little bit. so

both sides are notjustified. Righteous people should remain nutral

inthese conflicts and aid neither side.It is said that when Mother

earth is unable towithstand the weight of evil she comes forth

anddestroys the evil. Thats what Krishna did as well asother avatars.

I think we have too much evil and it istime for an avtar.Menon---

adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16 > wrote:dear eve, you know what

- you are right - dharmaincludes not eben fighting for one's country

anylonger... now , YOU ARE ONE STEP AHEAD OF ME - i am proud of you-

in other words, you are saying even if your 'space'is violated you

should not take up arms ... in otherwords, if india is attacked by

its militant neighbourindia shoud not strike back? well, this is

exactly what gandhji wrote to winstonchurchill ... read on... "ar by

its very nature is evil." so gandhiji wrote aletter on the 4th of

july . 1940 was sent to WinstonChurchill. " I appeal for cessation of

hostilities because war isbad in essence. You want to kill Nazism.

Your soldiersare doing the same work of destruction as the

Germans.The only difference is that perhaps yours are not asthorough

as the Germans. I venture to present you witha nobler and a braver

way worthy of the bravestsoldiers. I want you to fight Nazism without

arms orwith non-violent arms. I would like you to lay downthe arms you

have as being useless for saving you orhumanity. Invite Herr Hitler

and Signor Mussolini totake what they want of the countries you call

yourpossessions. Let them take possession of yourbeautiful island

with your many beautiful buildings.You will give these but not your

souls not yourminds."i am sure, if gandhiji were alive today he would

havewritten a similar letter president bush . but then ,the question

still remains ...eve, left to you how would you tackle the problem

ofglobal terrorism? would you just sit back and relax and say " MY

MOTHERKALI IS IN CHARGE" - " I AM JUST A MACHINE, SHE IS THE

OPERATOR. I AM A CHARIOT, SHE IS THE CHARIOTEER," nothing moves ,

not even a life except by mother'swill. if that is what you believe

in , eve, then you have truly 'understood' the concept of karma and

dharma andyou will attain moksha; in this lifetime only.but in the

real world, people stll keep score cards,grievance list and instead

pf 'forgiveness' in theirheart, they have 'revenge ' and 'blood for

blood' astheir dharma... just like 'shylock' in shakespear'smerchant

of venice... we all need a 'portia' like youto make them see the

forest from the trees!!!! bravo, my son! bravo and cheers! this

mother is reallyproud of her 'dharma' son- in hinduism there are

twotypes of sons- one is the womb son who performs hismother's last

rites (karma putra) the other is adharma putra ( an adopted son) ---

you indeed are mydharma putra just like sesh, harsha,imthi .....love

===============> -- In , "Eve _69" <eve__69@h...>>

wrote:Thank you Adi, I believe that dharma includes noteven fighting

for one's country any longer. War willcontinue to escalate until

only war is between peaceand war. Then all> individuals will stand

alone. Arjuna didn't want tofight therefore in his war he might be

an exception tothe rule. Because according to Buddists even a

smallsin grows until purified. Killing just keepssnowballing evil

until it's all that's left. One whopromotes war out of some ideation

is doomed to fail. Killing someone for a thought is spilling

bloodbecause of imagination. This is the work of maya andmara.

Doesn't matter if ours is not to reason why,ignorance is no excuse.

For this reason I predict BabyBush will decline in popularity until

he is seen asthe moron he is. US policy in general underrepublicans

right now is if you can't beat them don'tjoin them but beat them

senseless. Buddhism says mustget back to dharma of ahimsa. Take

Gandhi as example.Perhaps most extraordinary figure ever. One

personkills for war then thinks about killing every timesomething

doesn't go his way. The mind grows coarse. Purification is a must to

regain subtle state butharder to find when apparatus of thought is

dumb. Arjuna an exception because entirely hesitant to killat all.

Then purification not nearly as far off.Specially with God as your

charioteer. Not case inIsrael, Palestine, Chechnya, Afghanistan,

Kashmir,Somalia. These all about greed and territoriality. About

primeval parts of brain not gray matter andcertainly not about third

eye and crown states at all.These wars now are about first - second

chakra only.Not same at all in fact. Neither side is right in anyof

these conflicts. Any more than family feuds inpalachians, once known

in US as most ignorantbackwoods morons alive. Pretty sure Kali yuga

justwarming up. Only 5,000 years into the 432,000. Whatthe hell is

in store for us. It's said enlightenmenteasier in Kali yuga though

since any spark of light ismuch much brighter in utter

darkness.Do You

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