question

[Guest guest]

namaste dear friends,

i recently encountered the name of paramahamsa Totapuri.. I read

about his 'meeting' with Sri Ramakrishna and the 'killing' of Kali..

could anyone tell me more about this 'incident' and about Totapuri?

om shanti,

sphurna

[Guest guest]

spurna, namaste and greetings! here is that famous incident in shri

ramakrishna's life!!!!

 

Ramakrishna was a great devotee, and the path of devotion is full of

imagination. Mind has the capacity to hypnotize itself and can see

the object of imagination just standing before it.

 

You should pay attention to the fact that no Mohammedan or Christian

ever experiences Krishna, no Hindu ever experiences Jesus. They all

see what they imagine, what they believe in, what is their hypothesis.

 

If you continuously go on insisting on a certain hypothetical concept

of God, one day you will see that hypothesis becoming a reality.

 

Ramakrishna was a devotee of the Mother Goddess of Calcutta. An

enlightened man, Totapuri, was just passing by. He looked at

Ramakrishna and he felt great compassion for the poor fellow. He told

Ramakrishna: "You think that you have experienced the Mother Goddess."

 

Ramakrishna said: "See, I have talked with her, and not one day, but

every day." He was an honest man, and what he was saying was

absolutely true.

 

Totapuri laughed and he said: "Listen, that Mother Goddess is nothing

but pure imagination. Unless you drop that you will never become

enlightened. So sit down. I will remain here for three or four days,

just for you. I have to help you in somehow dropping the Mother

Goddess."

 

Now that was a very difficult matter. Ramakrishna had loved the

Mother Goddess his whole life, danced before her. And he was not a

traditional fellow; he was very untraditional, very loving, very

innocent — so much so that twice the trustees of the temple in which

he used to worship, where he was the priest, had to call him

saying: "This is strange what you are doing...."

 

First he would taste the food that was to be offered to the goddess,

and then he would offer it. Now this is absolutely wrong according to

the Hindu tradition. First you should offer it to the god and then

you can distribute it, you can eat it.

 

But Ramakrishna said: "My mother always used to taste it first and

then she would give it to me. I don't care about anybody, I know what

the reason was. The reason was whether it is worth giving. Is the

taste right? Is the sweetness not too much or too little? I cannot

offer it without tasting it first."

 

He used to fight with the Mother Goddess. Nobody could understand

what was happening. He would lock the temple for three or four days

and would tell the Mother Goddess: "Remain inside the temple, because

you are not doing anything for your devotees. So many people come and

they ask you and their prayers are not answered. I am the priest

here; it is my duty to take care. Now remain locked up. After three

or four days I will see you again."

 

The trustees said: "You are here as the salaried priest. Your work is

to worship every day."

 

He said: "That is not the question. The question is that the Mother

Goddess has to listen to me. When she listens I prepare such good

food for her and bring so many roses and so many flowers. When she is

really listening to the prayers I dance the whole day. But when she

is not listening, becomes adamant, then I am also a man of some

dignity...."

 

Totapuri said to Ramakrishna: "You sit in silence. You don't have any

other ropes that I can see, just this one rope. So when you see the

Mother Goddess arising in your imagination, just take the sword and

cut the mother in two pieces. They will fall, and with them will fall

the last barrier."

 

Ramakrishna said: "From where am I going to get the sword?"

 

Totapuri said: "From where have you got this Mother Goddess? — From

the same place. It is your imagination. That is also your

imagination; only imagination is needed to cut it."

 

It took three days, because he would go into meditation and the

Mother Goddess would be standing there, and he would forget all about

Totapuri. He would forget all about the sword, and tears would start

flowing from his eyes, and Totapuri would shake him saying: "What are

you doing?"

 

Ramakrishna said: "What to do? — Because once I see her, she is so

beautiful.... Don't force me to cut her."

 

Totapuri said: "Listen, I can see even from the outside: your face

immediately changes when you see the mother. I have brought a piece

of glass, and the moment I see that you are seeing the mother —

because your tears start flowing, your face becomes so beautiful — I

will make a cut just on your third eye center with the glass. I have

to do this because tomorrow I leave. I cannot waste any more time.

This is the last chance: either you do it or I am finished with you."

 

And Totapuri said: "When I cut your forehead and blood starts

flowing, don't hesitate, just take the sword and cut the mother."

 

Ramakrishna cut the mother and he remained silent for six days.

Totapuri remained for six days, and when Ramakrishna opened his eyes

he thanked Totapuri and said: "If you had not come, I would have

lived my whole life with the hallucination. My last barrier has

fallen away."

 

Ramakrishna became enlightened after he had cut the last barrier. But

even the followers of Ramakrishna don't mention this incident,

because this incident makes the whole effort of worshipping futile.

If you have finally to cut it, why start it in the beginning?

 

(Osho from

Zen Wind, Sufi Fire)

 

**********************************************************************

well, i broke my mauna vrata all for a good cause!

 

 

..

[Guest guest]

OM Adi Shakthi

 

Thanks for the post on Totapuri and Sri Ramakrishna and the

hallucinations/imaginations formed by the meditation process.

 

Just as we are not to entertain ourselves with thoughts of the

phenomena of our daily life when meditating, so, too, are we not

to cling to the phenomena encountered during meditation.

 

Both of those types of phenomena are traps of Maya, some

pleasant, some not, but all traps none the less. As long as there

is content of any sort in one's mind, one has not come to

Brahman.

 

The temptations of divine phenomena are a golden cage. They

can mesmerize us and prevent us from moving on as we stop to

revel in them. They may strike us full of fear and awe so that we

are unable to proceed further along the spiritual path. We may

seek to recreate them when we meditate. In that case, we are no

longer meditating but simply doing mental gymnastics and

creating our own illusions.

 

Use your will power to resist these attractions and obstacles.

Use your humility and serenity to move beyond them.

 

OM Namah Sivaya

 

Omprem

 

 

, "adi_shakthi16"

<adi_shakthi16> wrote:

> spurna, namaste and greetings! here is that famous incident

in shri

> ramakrishna's life!!!!

>

> Ramakrishna was a great devotee, and the path of devotion is

full of

> imagination. Mind has the capacity to hypnotize itself and can

see

> the object of imagination just standing before it.

>

> You should pay attention to the fact that no Mohammedan or

Christian

> ever experiences Krishna, no Hindu ever experiences Jesus.

They all

> see what they imagine, what they believe in, what is their

hypothesis.

>

> If you continuously go on insisting on a certain hypothetical

concept

> of God, one day you will see that hypothesis becoming a

reality.

>

> Ramakrishna was a devotee of the Mother Goddess of

Calcutta. An

> enlightened man, Totapuri, was just passing by. He looked at

> Ramakrishna and he felt great compassion for the poor fellow.

He told

> Ramakrishna: "You think that you have experienced the Mother

Goddess."

>

> Ramakrishna said: "See, I have talked with her, and not one

day, but

> every day." He was an honest man, and what he was saying

was

> absolutely true.

>

> Totapuri laughed and he said: "Listen, that Mother Goddess is

nothing

> but pure imagination. Unless you drop that you will never

become

> enlightened. So sit down. I will remain here for three or four

days,

> just for you. I have to help you in somehow dropping the Mother

> Goddess."

>

> Now that was a very difficult matter. Ramakrishna had loved

the

> Mother Goddess his whole life, danced before her. And he was

not a

> traditional fellow; he was very untraditional, very loving, very

> innocent — so much so that twice the trustees of the temple in

which

> he used to worship, where he was the priest, had to call him

> saying: "This is strange what you are doing...."

>

> First he would taste the food that was to be offered to the

goddess,

> and then he would offer it. Now this is absolutely wrong

according to

> the Hindu tradition. First you should offer it to the god and then

> you can distribute it, you can eat it.

>

> But Ramakrishna said: "My mother always used to taste it first

and

> then she would give it to me. I don't care about anybody, I know

what

> the reason was. The reason was whether it is worth giving. Is

the

> taste right? Is the sweetness not too much or too little? I

cannot

> offer it without tasting it first."

>

> He used to fight with the Mother Goddess. Nobody could

understand

> what was happening. He would lock the temple for three or

four days

> and would tell the Mother Goddess: "Remain inside the

temple, because

> you are not doing anything for your devotees. So many people

come and

> they ask you and their prayers are not answered. I am the

priest

> here; it is my duty to take care. Now remain locked up. After

three

> or four days I will see you again."

>

> The trustees said: "You are here as the salaried priest. Your

work is

> to worship every day."

>

> He said: "That is not the question. The question is that the

Mother

> Goddess has to listen to me. When she listens I prepare such

good

> food for her and bring so many roses and so many flowers.

When she is

> really listening to the prayers I dance the whole day. But when

she

> is not listening, becomes adamant, then I am also a man of

some

> dignity...."

>

> Totapuri said to Ramakrishna: "You sit in silence. You don't

have any

> other ropes that I can see, just this one rope. So when you see

the

> Mother Goddess arising in your imagination, just take the

sword and

> cut the mother in two pieces. They will fall, and with them will

fall

> the last barrier."

>

> Ramakrishna said: "From where am I going to get the sword?"

>

> Totapuri said: "From where have you got this Mother Goddess?

— From

> the same place. It is your imagination. That is also your

> imagination; only imagination is needed to cut it."

>

> It took three days, because he would go into meditation and

the

> Mother Goddess would be standing there, and he would forget

all about

> Totapuri. He would forget all about the sword, and tears would

start

> flowing from his eyes, and Totapuri would shake him saying:

"What are

> you doing?"

>

> Ramakrishna said: "What to do? — Because once I see her,

she is so

> beautiful.... Don't force me to cut her."

>

> Totapuri said: "Listen, I can see even from the outside: your

face

> immediately changes when you see the mother. I have brought

a piece

> of glass, and the moment I see that you are seeing the mother

—

> because your tears start flowing, your face becomes so

beautiful — I

> will make a cut just on your third eye center with the glass. I

have

> to do this because tomorrow I leave. I cannot waste any more

time.

> This is the last chance: either you do it or I am finished with

you."

>

> And Totapuri said: "When I cut your forehead and blood starts

> flowing, don't hesitate, just take the sword and cut the mother."

>

> Ramakrishna cut the mother and he remained silent for six

days.

> Totapuri remained for six days, and when Ramakrishna

opened his eyes

> he thanked Totapuri and said: "If you had not come, I would

have

> lived my whole life with the hallucination. My last barrier has

> fallen away."

>

> Ramakrishna became enlightened after he had cut the last

barrier. But

> even the followers of Ramakrishna don't mention this incident,

> because this incident makes the whole effort of worshipping

futile.

> If you have finally to cut it, why start it in the beginning?

>

> (Osho from

> Zen Wind, Sufi Fire)

>

>

**********************************************************************

> well, i broke my mauna vrata all for a good cause!

>

>

> .

[Guest guest]

What a powerful incident! Thanks for breaking your mouna vrata just

so you could share it for our benefit.

 

However, I think you also just cleaved me in two with that narration,

adi_shakti. :-( I have been reading a learned Vaishnavite's

commentary on Sri Narada's Bhakti Sutra, and he reflects his

lineage's view that the perfection of bhakti yoga in service of Lord

Krishna is far more vital than the accomplishment of moksha/or the

severing of all attachments (the model which Totapuri seemed to

espouse here in his encounter with Ramakrishna).

 

The sadhaka who follows this interpretation is expected to refuse

enlightenment even if his Ishta (Lord Krishna or another Deva,

etc... ) should offer it directly to him, in preference for the boon

of always being the Ishta's eternal devotee. One of the grounds

supporting this view is that there is a trace of arrogance and

presumption contaminating the desire to attach final Moksha - whereas

the desire of the enlightened sadhaka to voluntarily retain the

eternal position of a bhakta in deference to the Ishta, is far more

worthy.

 

I am personally quite in favor of this second approach, though your

narration of Ramakrishna's has me once again Tot(a)tering(!) between

these two extremes (final moksha vs eternal bhakti).

[Guest guest]

Adi-shakthi:

>spurna, namaste and greetings! here is that famous incident in shri

>ramakrishna's life!!!!

<snip>

>Ramakrishna became enlightened after he had cut the last barrier. But

>even the followers of Ramakrishna don't mention this incident,

>because this incident makes the whole effort of worshipping futile.

>If you have finally to cut it, why start it in the beginning?

>

>(Osho from

>Zen Wind, Sufi Fire)

 

Dear Adi-shakthi, you are quite right to describe this incident as famous.

However, Osho is not quite right to say that the followers of Sri

Ramakrishna don't mention it. I've seen it in their literature. If it

wasn't in the literature, how would Osho know about it?

 

There is something that Osho doesn't mention. It's true that Sri

Ramakrishna went through this process of breaking his inner image of Mother

Kali, in order to experience non-duality. But afterwards he returned to the

practice of Kali worship, and in fact died with Kali's name on his lips.

 

Om Shantih,

Colin

[Guest guest]

shakti_sadhnaa

 

 

--- colinr wrote:

> Adi-shakthi:

>

> >spurna, namaste and greetings! here is that famous

> incident in shri

> >ramakrishna's life!!!!

> <snip>

> >Ramakrishna became enlightened after he had cut the

> last barrier. But

> >even the followers of Ramakrishna don't mention

> this incident,

> >because this incident makes the whole effort of

> worshipping futile.

> >If you have finally to cut it, why start it in the

> beginning?

> >

> >(Osho from

> >Zen Wind, Sufi Fire)

>

> Dear Adi-shakthi, you are quite right to describe

> this incident as famous.

> However, Osho is not quite right to say that the

> followers of Sri

> Ramakrishna don't mention it. I've seen it in their

> literature. If it

> wasn't in the literature, how would Osho know about

> it?

>

> There is something that Osho doesn't mention. It's

> true that Sri

> Ramakrishna went through this process of breaking

> his inner image of Mother

> Kali, in order to experience non-duality. But

> afterwards he returned to the

> practice of Kali worship, and in fact died with

> Kali's name on his lips.

>

> Om Shantih,

> Colin

>

>

>

 

 

=====

Goals are dreams with deadlines

Goals without deadlines are wishes

 

 

 

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http://taxes./

[Guest guest]

dear collin, you are quite right in pointing this out - as you know

bhagwan rajneesh (osho) is not the last word on shri ramakrishna - in

fact, osho criticized many gurus that preceded him ! i myself quoted

the same incident in the shakti sadhana club from another web source (

http://www.cosmicharmony.com/Av/RamaKris/RamaKris.htm ) in response

to one of your posts.

 

but, i have not read an account of this in the famous 'gospel' - the

first time i read about it was on the web and again i saw this being

mentioned in osho's book.

 

you are quite correct in stating that shri ramakrishna was a bhaktha

till his final samadhi,,, in fact, in the gospel, it is clearly

mentioned - the two phrases that are mentioned in this context are

 

1) ego of knowledge --- "the ego purified and illumined by the

knowledge (or love) of GOD. SOME SOULS, AFTER realizing brahman in

samadhi, come down in the plane of relative consciousness . in this

state they retain a very faint feeling of ego so that they may teach

others... - shri ramakrishna called this the 'ego of knowledge' ...

this ego (of knowledge) does not altogether efface their knowledge of

oneness with brahman even in the relative state of consciousness....

 

the bhakta, the lover of god (or mother kali, in this case) coming

down to the relative plane after having attained 'samadhi' retains

the 'i consciousness' by which he feels himself to be a LOVER, A

CHILD, OR AS SERVANT OF GOD .... shri ramakrishna called this

the 'ego of devotion' ...

 

in the gospel, it is clearly mentioned in many places how shri

ramakrishna enjoyed the company of his disciples and other devotees

and go into spiritual ecstasy after listening to a RAMPRASAD SONG or

a song of chaitanya mahaprabhu on radha-krishna prema...

 

the only point is our beloved shri ramakrishna was so god-intoxicated

(the umnatta bhava) -he did not prctice the social norms of the day -

in fact, he used to 'taste' the offering of the food to mother kali

before actually offering it to the goddess- making sure it was 'fit'

enough to be the offered- also, in the later stages, he did

not 'fully' perform his obligations as a priest .... but all this not

because he was not a 'bhakta' - but he was the 'supreme' bhakta who

also was a brahma jnani - at that stage, he did not care

for 'rituals ' and other formalities... but this is my opinion- you

can disagree with me, sir!!

 

 

love

 

jai durge!

 

jai gurudeva!!!!

1) ego of knowledge -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- In , colinr@z... wrote:

> Adi-shakthi:

>

> >spurna, namaste and greetings! here is that famous incident in shri

> >ramakrishna's life!!!!

> <snip>

> >Ramakrishna became enlightened after he had cut the last barrier.

But

> >even the followers of Ramakrishna don't mention this incident,

> >because this incident makes the whole effort of worshipping futile.

> >If you have finally to cut it, why start it in the beginning?

> >

> >(Osho from

> >Zen Wind, Sufi Fire)

>

> Dear Adi-shakthi, you are quite right to describe this incident as

famous.

> However, Osho is not quite right to say that the followers of Sri

> Ramakrishna don't mention it. I've seen it in their literature. If

it

> wasn't in the literature, how would Osho know about it?

>

> There is something that Osho doesn't mention. It's true that Sri

> Ramakrishna went through this process of breaking his inner image

of Mother

> Kali, in order to experience non-duality. But afterwards he

returned to the

> practice of Kali worship, and in fact died with Kali's name on his

lips.

>

> Om Shantih,

> Colin

[Guest guest]

Dear Adi_Shakthi,

 

On Tues, 16 April you wrote:

>but, i have not read an account of this in the famous 'gospel' - the

>first time i read about it was on the web and again i saw this being

>mentioned in osho's book.

 

Perhaps you might have another look at the _Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna_. The

incident mentioned in Osho's book is right there, in the introduction by

its translator, Swami Nikhilananda. He quotes Ramakrishna:

 

"Finding a piece of glass he [Totapuri] took it up and stuck it between my

eyebrows.'Concentrate your mind on this point!' he thundered. Then with

stern determination I sat down to meditate. As soon as the gracious form of

the Divine Mother appeared before me, I used my discrimination as a sword

and with it clove Her in two."

 

(from the edition published by Sri Ramakrishna Math, Madras, 1985, vol 1

page 29)

 

Om shantih,

Colin

[Guest guest]

-

dearest collin, you are absolutely correct... i have the same gospel

with introduction by swami nikhilananda...

 

yes, it is there on page 29 in fine prints...

 

thanks once again, my upaguru!!!! smiles!!!!

 

love

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- In , colinr@z... wrote:

> Dear Adi_Shakthi,

>

> On Tues, 16 April you wrote:

> >but, i have not read an account of this in the famous 'gospel' -

the

> >first time i read about it was on the web and again i saw this

being

> >mentioned in osho's book.

>

> Perhaps you might have another look at the _Gospel of Sri

Ramakrishna_. The

> incident mentioned in Osho's book is right there, in the

introduction by

> its translator, Swami Nikhilananda. He quotes Ramakrishna:

>

> "Finding a piece of glass he [Totapuri] took it up and stuck it

between my

> eyebrows.'Concentrate your mind on this point!' he thundered. Then

with

> stern determination I sat down to meditate. As soon as the gracious

form of

> the Divine Mother appeared before me, I used my discrimination as a

sword

> and with it clove Her in two."

>

> (from the edition published by Sri Ramakrishna Math, Madras, 1985,

vol 1

> page 29)

>

> Om shantih,

> Colin

[Guest guest]

>dearest collin, you are absolutely correct... i have the same gospel

>with introduction by swami nikhilananda...

>yes, it is there on page 29 in fine prints...

>thanks once again, my upaguru!!!! smiles!!!!

 

Dear Adi_Shakthi,

 

I am touched and honoured that you've called me that.

 

love,

Colin.