Guest guest Posted April 18, 2002 Report Share Posted April 18, 2002 dear collin, i have seen you quoting from kalika purana... this evening when i was 'surfing' on the net , i came across this site which is quoting very heavily from 'kalika purana' saying tha mother kali loves 'blood' and 'human' sacrifice and if not 'human sacrifice ' -at least the sacrifice of a young goat.... http://galileo.spaceports.com/~samy/shakti.htm when i read the description of all this in kali-purana as quoted on this site, i was shocked and i decided to forego my evening dinner... i found the whole thing very distasteful and it left a bad taste in my mouth... i have heard about goat sacrifices for mother kali and i know that 'goat' meat is popular in bengal and oriisa .. and goats and lambs are slaughtered for consumption... once i asked my tantrik gurudeva about this practice of sacrificing 'goats' to mother kali and questioned him why we should resort to such gruesome and unhealthy practice.. (btw i am a pure vegetarian and even hate eating eggs .. though my nutritionist recommends eggs to me as a great source of protein- the whites not the yellow as yellow contains cholesterol...) my gurudeva (a great kali bhakta) tole me " Mother, how can youu ask me a question like that? these animals are slaughtered day in and day out under 'unhygenic' conditions by butchers in slaughter houses... atleast when the are sacrificed at the altar of mother kali, they get liberated ." -his other explanation was - " in the olden days before the british took over, human sacrifices were made to kali - this is because a man's head represents his ego and kali likes to take away your ego -so as a symbolic gesture - this was done ... but in course of time this was all replace by animal sacrifice." well, i know menaka ghandi is an animal right activist and she objected to chicken and beef being served in mcdonald restaurants in india. "killing is bad" -period... any thoughts, folks? and collin, once again, pl tell us if this is true? is that what bhairava says to his sons - please offer animal or human sacrifices to appease bhairavi" ? love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 Dear Adi_Shakthi, Before I answer your specific questions, can I tell you a little about what sort of book the Kalika Purana is? It's a Goddess-oriented Sanskrit work 90 chapters long, and historians estimate that it was written about 1,000 years ago. It refers to the Goddess by names including Kali, Kalika, Mahamaya and Kamakhya. It glorifies the sacred places of Kamarupa (Assam), especially the mountain called Nilashaila, where Yoni Pitha is situated. It contains sacred stories, stotras, and information about images, rituals, festivals, customs and laws. >this evening when i was 'surfing' on the net , i came across this >site which is quoting very heavily from 'kalika purana' saying tha >mother kali loves 'blood' and 'human' sacrifice and if not 'human >sacrifice ' -at least the sacrifice of a young goat.... >and collin, once again, pl tell us if this is true? is that what >bhairava says to his sons - please offer animal or human sacrifices >to appease bhairavi" ? Of the 90 chapters of the Kalika Purana, one chapter does set forth procedures for animal and human sacrifices. The chapter is presented as a statement by Lord Shiva to his sons. The chapter states that no-one except the ruler of a kingdom may authorize a human sacrifice. The sacrificial victim must always be a man, never a woman. The intent of the sacrifices was not simply to appease the Goddess, but to gain her favour. Om shantih, Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 thanks dear collin for taking the time and efforts to explain the text of sree kalika purana in crisp sentences... but as a kali worshipper, do you believe in 'human' and 'animal' sacrifices... i believe, in recent times, they are offering 'ripe' pumpkins instead of goats and of course in south indian temples they offer coconuts which is symbolic of the human ego!!! of course, in the streets of bombay, calcutta, madras and other places countless human are dying due to hunger and poverty .... a country where cows are worshipped as sacred 'mothers' , cows are dying due to mis-treatment and mal nutrition.... story goes on... but, the big question still is unanswered ? should we sacrifice humans or animals in the name of kali worship? if i remember my 'ramakrishna' correctly, he was against this inhuman practice. thanx collin, you are indeed an 'asset' to this satsangh ! love love -- In , colinr@z... wrote: > Dear Adi_Shakthi, > > Before I answer your specific questions, can I tell you a little about what > sort of book the Kalika Purana is? > > It's a Goddess-oriented Sanskrit work 90 chapters long, and historians > estimate that it was written about 1,000 years ago. > > It refers to the Goddess by names including Kali, Kalika, Mahamaya and Kamakhya. > > It glorifies the sacred places of Kamarupa (Assam), especially the mountain > called Nilashaila, where Yoni Pitha is situated. > > It contains sacred stories, stotras, and information about images, rituals, > festivals, customs and laws. > > >this evening when i was 'surfing' on the net , i came across this > >site which is quoting very heavily from 'kalika purana' saying tha > >mother kali loves 'blood' and 'human' sacrifice and if not 'human > >sacrifice ' -at least the sacrifice of a young goat.... > >and collin, once again, pl tell us if this is true? is that what > >bhairava says to his sons - please offer animal or human sacrifices > >to appease bhairavi" ? > > Of the 90 chapters of the Kalika Purana, one chapter does set forth > procedures for animal and human sacrifices. The chapter is presented as a > statement by Lord Shiva to his sons. > > The chapter states that no-one except the ruler of a kingdom may authorize > a human sacrifice. The sacrificial victim must always be a man, never a > woman. > > The intent of the sacrifices was not simply to appease the Goddess, but to > gain her favour. > > Om shantih, > Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2002 Report Share Posted April 19, 2002 OM Colin You said, "Of the 90 chapters of the Kalika Purana, one chapter does set forth procedures for animal and human sacrifices. The chapter is presented as a statement by Lord Shiva to his sons. The chapter states that no-one except the ruler of a kingdom may authorize a human sacrifice. The sacrificial victim must always be a man, never a woman." This statement contains the background reason for the government stopping the Kali sacrifice as posted in message 1453 by Devi Bhakta. The sacrifice of animals per se is not the issue. But the large number of animals was the issue. That large a number of animal killings was bound to attract a lot of unfavourable attention from around the world. But, in addition to the attempts at PR, lay deeper reason. That large number of animal killings could signify a decline in sensitivity which, in turn, could eventually lead to a resurgence of the Thuggee cult, that offered millions of human male sacrifices to Kali in the 1800's. This is an aspect of India's history that the government would not like to be repeated or to have the world public reminded of . I do not know or want to know much about this cult but offer some snippets of information from various websites: http://users.boone.net/gibbons/Home/Home.htm "Mirzapur is not immediately the most inviting place to live and as a result very few people visit the city proper. Administratively attached to Mirzapur is the temple town of Vindhyachal, home of the Vindhyavasini Devi goddess idol. Vindhyavasini Devi is the goddess that inspired the "thuggee" movement in the Central Provinces in the last century. Thuggee, the cult of murder, was perfromed in the name of and for the honor of Vidhyavasini Devi. After a period of thuggee the perpetrators, thugs (hence the English word) would retire to the temple at Vindhyachal to take blessings from and make offerings. Below is a glimpse of the goddess's inspiring appearance. "Of course, the thuggee cult was finally put to an end (we hope when traveling on the roads in Madhya Pradesh!) by the famous Colonel Sleeman. Still, thousands flock to the Vindhyavasini Devi Temple and to other nearby sites on the now mostly denuded Vindhya hills and along the banks of the Ganges twice a year. One man of advanced years uses the temple town as his base and journeys around religious sites in Northern India." http://www.hindunet.org/srh_home/1997_4/0194.html "Hi Joe, Thugi tradition lived and thrived in the Central West part of the India (which is still called Vidarbha). The two main cities of vidarbha and where Thugs operated are Jabalpur and Nagpur. Nagpur used be capital of whole central-west India (ie during British Raj) and then it was incorporated into Maharastra of which Bombay is capital. So, Thugs were called Pindari. They were worshipers of Kali. They operated in groups. The most common method to loot and kill people was to find a rich group of people going for marriges, pilgrimage, or other religious and social occation. Thugs were also skilled in the art of cooking and music. They would get mixed with the group of people who they wanted to loot and kill. They would entertain the people with by or cook food for them. As the Pindaris noticed that their victims had been enjoying the music or dance, one of the member of Pindari would get up and say to other - "Bring the Tobaco". Yes, "Bring the Tobaco" was the codeword for Pindaris. The codeword meant "It's time to kill". Then all of the Pindaris would move behind (or get closer) to the strong male members of their victim. Then would be passed another codeword, I don't remember from the stories I have read. As soon as the second codeword had been passed, Pindaris would take out their "arms" and within few seconds all the male and strong victims are dead. Females, aged, and childern, would be tied down to trees but would be left unharmed. All valuables of victims (gold, jewlaries, cash, cloths, etc.) would be collected.Yes, there would be some Pindaris who had already taken the responsibility to dig a large grave and bury the deads. You might have been thinking "what the hell was that "arm" that killed a person in few minutes. The "arm" was the most fascinating part of the Thugi stories that have been aroung for generations. The arm Pindari used was a meter long very strong silk scarf. There would be a large copper coin tied in the middle of the scarf. The Pindari would take out the scarf and wrap it around the neck of the victim in such a way that the copper coin would just on the top of neck-bone. After wrapping the scarf (within seconds), the Pindari would try to tie it up with a very strong force and give it a big "pull". The smooth silk scarf would block the front part of the neck so the victim could not breath and copper coin would break (because of pull) the neck-bone. And the victim in dead within few minutes. The arm was very neat and clean. Then came forward some local Indian social reformers and British police. They decided to wipe out all Pindaris. Pindaris had an image of Cult leaders (and sort of Robinhood) and had big infuence on the people living in the areas where they operated. But ruthlessnes of British police and in-depth analysis of Indian social reformers won the battle. All Pindari groups were busted out. All the Pindaris were either got killed or jailed. Those who escaped might have started doing petty crimes but never formed a group. When the operation to wipe out Pindaris started, the British police decided to show how horrific the end of Pindaris would be. To show this, they killed Pindaris in a very ruthlessnes ways. To kill a Pindari a trained elephant was used. The head of Pindari would be put on a piece of stone (very similar to French Gilotine) and elephant would be instructed to step on the head of the Pindari. First few groups of Pindaris those were caught in encounter were excecuted in this horrific way. This did make an impact on the moral Pindaris. Either the resistance in encounters became milder or they surrendered without any resistance. People of Jabalpur still remeber the name of a British police officer - William Sleeman. There is a village near-by Jabalpur. The name of village in Sleemanabad, which has been named after William Sleeman. I hope this information would be helpful. Best wishes, - Bharat Also, http://www.sfsite.com/05a/ct80.htm OM namah Sivaya Omprem , colinr@z... wrote: > Dear Adi_Shakthi, > > Before I answer your specific questions, can I tell you a little about what > sort of book the Kalika Purana is? > > It's a Goddess-oriented Sanskrit work 90 chapters long, and historians > estimate that it was written about 1,000 years ago. > > It refers to the Goddess by names including Kali, Kalika, Mahamaya and Kamakhya. > > It glorifies the sacred places of Kamarupa (Assam), especially the mountain > called Nilashaila, where Yoni Pitha is situated. > > It contains sacred stories, stotras, and information about images, rituals, > festivals, customs and laws. > > >this evening when i was 'surfing' on the net , i came across this > >site which is quoting very heavily from 'kalika purana' saying tha > >mother kali loves 'blood' and 'human' sacrifice and if not 'human > >sacrifice ' -at least the sacrifice of a young goat.... > >and collin, once again, pl tell us if this is true? is that what > >bhairava says to his sons - please offer animal or human sacrifices > >to appease bhairavi" ? > > Of the 90 chapters of the Kalika Purana, one chapter does set forth > procedures for animal and human sacrifices. The chapter is presented as a > statement by Lord Shiva to his sons. > > The chapter states that no-one except the ruler of a kingdom may authorize > a human sacrifice. The sacrificial victim must always be a man, never a > woman. > > The intent of the sacrifices was not simply to appease the Goddess, but to > gain her favour. > > Om shantih, > Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2002 Report Share Posted April 20, 2002 Namaste Omprem, Thank you for your thoughts about animal sacrifice and Thuggee. You quoted the following from a website: >"Mirzapur is not immediately the most inviting place to live and as >a result very few people visit the city proper. Administratively >attached to Mirzapur is the temple town of Vindhyachal, home of >the Vindhyavasini Devi goddess idol. Vindhyavasini Devi is the >goddess that inspired the "thuggee" movement in the Central >Provinces in the last century. Thuggee, the cult of murder, was >perfromed in the name of and for the honor of Vidhyavasini Devi. >After a period of thuggee the perpetrators, thugs (hence the >English word) would retire to the temple at Vindhyachal to take >blessings from and make offerings. Below is a glimpse of the >goddess's inspiring appearance. Historians seem to agree that Thugs used to visit the Vindhyacal temple town. However, Thugs are far from being the only people who have worshipped there. The temple town makes the place where the Vindhya mountain range approaches the Ganges, and is fairly near to Kashi. It is a very old site of Devi worship. There is a reference to it in the Devi Mahatmya (Chapter 11 verse 42), where the Goddess describes herself as Vindhyacalavasini (She who Dwells in the Vindhya mountains). Worship at the site continues today, and is described in some detail by Cynthia Ann Humes in one of the articles contained in the book _Devi -- Goddesses of India_, which is edited by J.S.Hawley and D.M.Wulff. Om shantih, Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2002 Report Share Posted April 20, 2002 thanks collin for remembering devi as the daughter of the vindya mountains - it is very auspicious you should mention that today on ashtami. the day of durga, the slayer of mahisa sur! in fact the very first verse of mahisasura mardini stotra salutes devi thus... ayi giri nandini, nandita medini, visva vinodini, nandinute || giri vara vindhya shirodhini vasini vishnuvilaasini jisnunute || bhagavati he shitikaNthakutumbini bhoorikutumbini bhoorikrute || jaya jaya he mahishaasuramardhini ramyakapardini shailasute |||| daughter of the mountain, who makes the whole earth happy, who makes the whole universe rejoice, praised by Nandin || dwelling on the peak of the great Vindhya mountain, glittering widely, praised by those desirous of victory || o goddess, wife of the blue necked siva, one who has many families, one who has done a lot, || be victorious, be victorious, O destroyer of the demon mahisa, with beautiful braids of hair, daughter of the mountain Himalaya || || jai durge! jai haimavati! jai mahisa-sura mardini! jai vindya-chala vilasini! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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