Guest guest Posted April 24, 2002 Report Share Posted April 24, 2002 I have heard this many times, and frankly I really don't understand what "going beyond the forms mean" Perhaps some enlighten being able to explain it to me. But I would request though, as not to bring the list of quotes from Ramakrishna, Sivananda or some famous swami. Please explain in a very simple, logical and rational , in your own very words and your understanding. I have gone through the message board, the words "go beyond the form " appearing repeatedly but it was never explain. Many many many many years ago, I encounter the same critical question, and that before I receive the call of Devi. I met up with 2 good friends. One a Buddhist and another a hindu ( not a practicing one ), and I asked them " Please explain to me why do you people worship the idol. These are stones, if I push it down the drain, it will not be able to get up on its own. So why are you worshipping something useless and powerless. What is it that you see that I don't? And I further told them, please do not bring in the Gita, or the purana or the sutra in trying to justify your answer. I want a rational and logical answer." Both of them came back to me after `some soul searching' as they confess. And we are still good friends. One become a Buddhist monk, and the other my husband. [smiles] Im sorry if I sound rude for asking this , but it's a question I feel the need to address in a hope to get some if not complete but at least a satisfactory answer. This is my understanding : Form are a form of guidance, or a "tool" as Adi ma remarked in one of her message. And this is a very important "tool". It acts a focus point for our devotion. I consider the Brahman that we spoke so often as something formless, and genderless, but the stage of Brahman is the end stage. Well I never dispute that, but to my mind, its very difficult to conceive as the formless. Because I believe our mind is such a way that I need something visual or physical to identify with. We are human, and humans are pattern seeking animal. We seek signs and pattern to justify the existence of God/dess. Brahman to me is like the source of light, and for the Shakta we used, the form of Devi, put it infront of the source of light, it shines. The Shivites use Sivan, Krishnites uses Krishna and so on. They all shine because of the light which is beyond the form. Our destination is the light, and we all gravitate towards the light. Devi acts as a shield to protect us from the harmful effect of the light, because our eyes as yet to get use to the light. It will blind us. But as we gradually go nearer, our other senses especially our eyes are accustomed to the light, we feel nothing, but only what is beyond. Devi is the door, that guides us through the next threshold, to the Brahman. To me this is the logical steps. So it upset me when others continue to condemn me for concentrating on Devi all the time. Keep on reminding me: Brahman is formless and genderless. For goodness sake I know that ! Om ParaShaktiye Namaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2002 Report Share Posted April 24, 2002 namaste! i'll give it a try.. but please, do not hesitate to correct me.. going beyond name and form refers to going beyond the name and form that the mind uses to identify, describe the reality ('that', which has no name and form) it encounters.. instead of looking at 'that', being 'that', the mind always wants to describe and reflect on 'that' by identifying and describing objects it encounters in 'that'.. in that way, the mind is always dividing 'that' into different objects it can look at, think about.. thus it creates the fundamental division of subject and object.. going beyond name and form refers thus to the stopping of the mind's drive towards division of 'that' into subject-object relations.. when this mechanism of the mind is 're-cognised', we are no longer dividing 'that' and identifying and creating objects for the mind.. in fact, there is no 'we' or 'i' looking at some 'thing'.. there remains 'looking'.. as there is no division of subject and object, there is no subject looking at an object, there is no subject or object looking at 'that'.. only then can 'that' reveal itself.. and then 'that' reveals itself to itself.. or it is 'that' seeing 'that'.. i hope this can help you.. love, sphurna , "nora55_1999" <nora55_1999> wrote: > I have heard this many times, and frankly I really don't understand > what "going beyond the forms mean" Perhaps some enlighten being able > to explain it to me. But I would request though, as not to bring the > list of quotes from Ramakrishna, Sivananda or some famous swami. > Please explain in a very simple, logical and rational , in your own > very words and your understanding. I have gone through the message > board, the words "go beyond the form " appearing repeatedly but it > was never explain. > > Many many many many years ago, I encounter the same critical > question, and that before I receive the call of Devi. I met up with 2 > good friends. One a Buddhist and another a hindu ( not a practicing > one ), and I asked them " Please explain to me why do you people > worship the idol. These are stones, if I push it down the drain, it > will not be able to get up on its own. So why are you worshipping > something useless and powerless. What is it that you see that I > don't? And I further told them, please do not bring in the Gita, or > the purana or the sutra in trying to justify your answer. I want a > rational and logical answer." Both of them came back to me > after `some soul searching' as they confess. And we are still good > friends. One become a Buddhist monk, and the other my husband. > [smiles] > > Im sorry if I sound rude for asking this , but it's a question I feel > the need to address in a hope to get some if not complete but at > least a satisfactory answer. > > This is my understanding : Form are a form of guidance, or a "tool" > as Adi ma remarked in one of her message. And this is a very > important "tool". It acts a focus point for our devotion. I consider > the Brahman that we spoke so often as something formless, and > genderless, but the stage of Brahman is the end stage. Well I never > dispute that, but to my mind, its very difficult to conceive as the > formless. Because I believe our mind is such a way that I need > something visual or physical to identify with. We are human, and > humans are pattern seeking animal. We seek signs and pattern to > justify the existence of God/dess. > > Brahman to me is like the source of light, and for the Shakta we > used, the form of Devi, put it infront of the source of light, it > shines. The Shivites use Sivan, Krishnites uses Krishna and so on. > They all shine because of the light which is beyond the form. Our > destination is the light, and we all gravitate towards the light. > Devi acts as a shield to protect us from the harmful effect of the > light, because our eyes as yet to get use to the light. It will blind > us. But as we gradually go nearer, our other senses especially our > eyes are accustomed to the light, we feel nothing, but only what is > beyond. Devi is the door, that guides us through the next threshold, > to the Brahman. To me this is the logical steps. So it upset me when > others continue to condemn me for concentrating on Devi all the time. > Keep on reminding me: Brahman is formless and genderless. For > goodness sake I know that ! > > Om ParaShaktiye Namaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2002 Report Share Posted April 24, 2002 beautiful spurna, spoken like a disciple of shri rama maharishi!!! meditate on the self !!! in this this type of dhyana, one does not need objects ( external symbols ), like images of deities, mandalas, yantras, a 'burning flame' or other forms of visualizations... this is the highest form of dhyana but then everyone cannot do this... as the mind is so hard to bring under control... so for such aspirants, in the beginning, forms and names may be the only answer at least in the beginning... r- love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2002 Report Share Posted April 25, 2002 when I look.. i see your eyes.. they are so sensitive.. they almost seem drunk of love.. who can now say.. 'you are mine'.. 'i am yours'.. love simply shines.. it is.. and we are.. not in love.. but love itself.. from the moment you try to catch it.. it's gone.. it is not yours.. it is not mine.. it only says "I" shine.. love, sphurna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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