Divine feminine, divine masculine

[Guest guest]

Dear Adi_Shakthi,

 

I'm glad that you so much liked what I said. It's a great compliment to be

called your own Carl Jung.

 

My guru -- I mean the woman who enabled me to find my personal connection

with Kali and Shiva -- is a Jungian analyst.

 

Om Shantih

Colin

[Guest guest]

Namaste Devi bhakta:

 

I agree with you that there is "absolutely nothing to indicate that any

theology as sophisticated as the Shiva-Shakti Unity was in operation" in

the Harrapan culture. I never said there was.

 

In my previous posting I spoke of "an image which has been interpreted as

'The Lord of the Beasts', and 'proto-Siva' ". I found these terms in the

book _Myth, Cult and Symbols in Sakta Hinduism_ by W.C.Beane. (Leiden:

E.J.Brill, 1977)

 

The term "proto-Siva" means an early masculine image of the divine, out of

which (in the opinion of some scholars, though not all) the vision of Shiva

has developed.

>Historians such as Merlin Stone and Riane Eisler have...laid

>down a powerful argument for the existence of a Supreme Mother

>Goddess in those times.

 

Yes, I'm acquainted with Stone and Eisler, and with Barbara Walker and

Robert Graves who argue along similar lines.

 

Have you seen the critique of their arguments in an article called "The

Western Kali" by Rachel Fell McDermott (in the book _Devi Goddesses of

India_ by J.S.Hawley and D.M.Wulff)?

 

She writes:

 

"Another problem with the discussion of goddess spirituality is the

widespread tendency to write and speak of the 'Goddess' as a divine power

or concept that unifies all separate female deities everywhere. Even with

respect to the Indian subcontinent one cannot really talk about such an

idea, from the historical and textual viewpoint, until the sixth

century...This issue becomes even more complicated when one's frame of

reference expands to include goddesses from Europe, the Near East, and

other parts of the world... just because two goddesses look alike

superficially does not imply that they have the same meaning in their

respective cultures..."

 

Now, I'm not saying that I wholly accept McDermott's point of view. I think

it is worth considering though.

 

If I did wholly accept it, I would not have mentioned similaries between

Shiva and "proto-Shiva", who might perhaps also be said to "look alike

superficially"!

>As I quoted in Post #1750, Devi states in the Devi Bhagavata

>Purana (Brown's translation):

>"I am Manifest Divinity, Unmanifest Divinity, and Transcendent

>Divinity. I am Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, as well as Saraswati,

>Lakshmi and Parvati. I am the Sun and I am the Stars, and I am also

>the Moon. I am all animals and birds, and I am the outcaste as well,

>and the thief. I am the low person of dreadful deeds, and the great

>person of excellent deeds. I am Female, I am Male, and I am Neuter."

 

Thank you for reposting this very significant statement. I apologize for

overlooking Post #1750.

 

Om Shantih,

Colin

[Guest guest]

my pleasure entirely, colin!

 

yes, towards the end of his life CARL JUNG also believed in the

theory of the self - pretty much the hindu way- there is no

distinction between the 'human' self and the 'divine' self!!!

 

here is something you would enjoy reading that i unearthed from my

web readings...

 

Tripura-Tapini-Upanishad

 

I praise that Supreme Truth which is Knowledge Absolute, which is to

be known through the Vidya of the Tripura-Tapini-Upanishad.

 

The Lord assumed the form of destructive ferociousness and then He

covered Himself all over the three worlds, Bhuh, Bhuvah and Svah.

 

This is The Sakti called the Maya of Siva and She is understood by

the fundamental syllable 'Hrim'.

 

This Sakti then covered the whole universe. Since She

Covered the three worlds or Tripuras, She has been styled

as 'Tripura'.

 

 

om sree maha tripurasundarayaii namaha!!!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste Colin!

 

Thanks for your kind reply. I think I understood your broad point,

that there is no hard "proof" of a pervasive Mother Goddess cult in

pre-historical times. We can only guess from the archealogical

evidence, and some later historical writings. The scholars that I

mentioned, and the ones you mentioned, are among those arguing that a

dominant Mother cult seems highly likely.

 

*** Have you seen the critique of their arguments in an article called

"The Western Kali" by Rachel Fell McDermott (in the book _Devi

Goddesses India_ by J.S.Hawley and D.M.Wulff)? ***

 

Yes, that is a good book. And it's true that there are scholars who

disagree with the ancient Mother cult theory. However, I don't read

the Fell-McDermott article in that way. Hers is more a critique of

sloppiness in the way Western "Goddess Worship" revivalists have been

"creating" a tradition, often out of thin air, without due regard that

blending, say, Inanna and Kali out of context, without thoroughly

understanding either, is hackery. Like the "New Age" re-interpretation

of the Chakras, which has nothing to do with the age-old conception.

 

*** Now, I'm not saying that I wholly accept McDermott's point of

view. I think it is worth considering though. ***

 

I agree. It is unlikely there was an pan-world Goddess theology

uniting Neolithic societies everywhere. The argument is simply that

Goddess worship seemed the primal human urge, and that the

introduction of male deities appears to have been a later refinement.

Whether or not this is true, it appears that we agree upon the

Shiva-Shakti unity as the peak of theological refinement. My only

intention was to try and define a "pure Shakta" point of view, to help

establish a Group-related context for the discussion, since I'm

assuming that many of our members come to us because we are Shaktas,

which can mean different things to those at various places along Her

path.

 

*** I apologize for overlooking Post #1750. ***

 

I apologize for assuming you'd read it. Happily for the Group, there

is a lot of discussion here, but it does become a task if you want to

keep up with it all. Be that as it may, I truly appreciate and value

your learned and eloquent contributions to the discussion!

 

Aum Maatangyai Namahe