365 nandinatha sutras by sivaya subramuniya swamiji...

[Guest guest]

Hi Adi:

 

I'm glad you liked the link, and am not surprised to hear that you

find many of the sutras to be reasonable, moral guides to life.

You've also discussed in the past how your attraction to various

Vaishnava and Shaiva schools of Hinduism are as strong as, and

probably stronger than, your attraction to Shakta schools. You are

certainly as adamant in your support of them as I am in support of

Shaktism. But as OmPrem has so wisely counseled in the past, none of

these schools truly need defending. A bhakta chooses her/his path,

and from that point on, Sadhana is between them and their

Ishtadevata, be it a form of Devi, of Shiva, of Vishna, or beyond

form.

 

Satguru Subramuniyaswami's sutras, as I explained in my post, come

from a specifically "pure Shaiva" viewpoint. Pure Shaivism does not

denote a denial of Shakti any more than pure Shaivism denotes a

denial of Shiva. In both cases, however, the worship (if not the

theological equality) of one is pointedly elevated over the other. I

did not, at any point, suggest that Shaivism is "anti-Shakta" any

more than I would suggest -- as some people decided I was suggesting

-- the Shaktism is "anti-Shiva." To imply as much simply turns the

whole tired argument upside-down on its head. My counter-arguments

have been repeated ad nauseum, and I will not repeat them again here.

 

However, your response brings up the same old misunderstanding: "i do

not see anything anti-shakthi ..." And I offer the same old reply:

That is because it is not "anti-Shakta." Enough.

 

You then add "i do not see anything anti-shakthi except it advises

against viewing 'pornographic' material and aginst marital infidelity

- are these too much to expect from our shakta-bhaktas?"

 

Again, as my original post made clear, the distinction between

Shaivism and Shaktism, as regards relations between men and women, is

that Shaivism stresses their differences and segregates them as much

as possible. Relations between the sexes are not seen as mere human

interaction, but as a mixing of two dangerous and volatile

substances, bound to cause mayhem and destruction if mixed outside a

strictly controlled environment. That model is repeated in various

forms in the Abrahamic and other patriarchially oriented faiths as

well. Shaktism, springing from the Mother-oriented faiths of old,

naturally promulgates a "partnership" model -- from each according to

her/his own predilections, and not to each according to her/his

gender. That is not feminism. That is Shaktism.

 

I am certain you did not intend it, but the grammar of your statement

certainly suggests that the only thing Shaktas might object to in the

sutras in that it doesn't encourage extramarital affairs or the

viewing of porn films. For the record, such a concept would certainly

betray a fundamental misunderstanding of wehat Shaktism is all about.

I need not argue it all again here; the archives all full of clear

and eloquent expressions of this subject from many, many members of

our Group.

 

I do need to pause here to apologize to Nora, and admit that "You

told me so." As I indicated in the earlier post, Nora had strongly

advised me against raising the sutras here because it is simply too

easy to pick and choose from among them, and spin them at will --

thereby misrepresenting both Shaktism and Shaivism. Since many

members have come here to learn, not to argue fine points of

theology, she feared that posting the sutras -- or even the link,

which I felt might establish a "safe distance" -- might reopen the

same of can of worms and muddy the water that we recently worked so

hard to clear, causing unnecessary misunderstanding and confusion.

And since we have released moderator-approval requirements, there is

little we can do to keep that confusion from entering the Group if

someone decides to bring it in. Nora was right. My mistake. Again.

 

Adi, thank you for your reply, and for appreciating the sutras. I am

sorry for my rather glum response. I apologize to you also for not

having more clearly explained my position and understanding of them

vis a vis Shaktism in my previous post.

 

Aum Maatangyai Namahe

[Guest guest]

There is no right or wrong here. Devi Bhakta's intentions are

sincere

and honest. And like I said before people tends to misinterprete

intentions. I believe it's all in the mind. It's the mind

that

makeths it good or bad. Even if we mean good, once the mind is

paranoid and full of bad thoughts, all goodness becomes bad. And like

wise.

 

Why don't we put all these aside and ponder a minute to our

Goddess

of the Week : Sodasi/Lalitha a symbolism

 

 

"in her four hands, she carries a noose , a goad, a sugarcane bow

and the five arrows!!!"

 

The goad ( ankusa ) : is krodha ( anger, aversion ) which hurts. The

power that animates our attachments and aversion is also hers. If we

forget her, she can bind us with ragapasa, and pierce us with the

krodhankusa. If we take refuge in her, she can withdraw them into her

hands and thereby free us from this torment.

 

To simplify this : Anger hurts. Ragapasa is the tendency to get angry

now and then, krodhankusa is the anger that pierce us when we cannot

control our emotions. Taking refuge in lalitha literally means that

doing away with emotions that causes us pain and sorrow, thus gives

us happiness and joy. Lalitha too means happiness. So taking refuge

in Lalitha means taking refuge in happiness. Sodasi = means "she

who is sixteen" who is always happy. So one should be like a girl of

sixteen,

 

Sugercane : represents the mind. It is through the mind that we all

experience joy. The bow is the instrument of discharging the arrows.

The mind is the instrument by which the sense organs are `shot'

towards the sense-objects. Hence it is described as a bow. The arrows

are the panca-tanmatras, the five subtle elements of akasa : ether (

akasa ), Air ( vayu) fire ( agni ), Water ( apas ) , earth (prthivi).

 

The sense organs like the eye and the ear, are products of

these subtle elements and are discharged like arrows, through the

mind, towards the sense objects. Hence the subtle elements are

described as the arrows in her hand. She is the power that energises

and controls our minds and sense organs.

 

To simplify this one : If our mind is good and sweet like a

sugarcane, then it is good, and all the other including us enjoy it

if it is not thrown away. When a cane is not sweet it is used as a

stick or sometimes also as a bow and a bow as we know discharges

arrow. Since it is said that the cane is the mind and here in this

case it is not a sweet one so it is being used to discharge arrows.

So a mind which is not sweet will be like a cane converted into bow

which will give out arrows of hatred.

 

All our senses are rule by the panca-tanmatras. When we discharge

arrows of hatred violence and all other things that will result in an

imbalance of the elements and the very nature of our existence. Hence

the subtle elements are described as the arrows in her hand. She is

the power that energies and control our minds and sense organs. Her

hand symbolizes our conscience which should be in turn in control of

our mind, which should be in control of our soul. Our thinking is the

power. She is the power that energises and controls our minds and

sense organs.

 

Please don't thank me, but thank to a young man by the name of

lad-in-

vogue whom I have the pleasure of meeting and had an interesting

conversation in the Hinduism Chat Room.

 

Something happen on that day before I came online. I took a taxi and

unfortunately have a terrible time. The taxi driver was very rude and

arrogant. We had an exchange of words and he used a rather vulgar

words towards me. I wanted to reply by cursing him but I stop. I came

to a realization that if I am to do that, I am no different than the

driver. Perhaps he had a terrible day and that I must have irritate

him thus he showing his anger at me. I just stood there look at him

and walked away. Lad in vogue have sense the anger in me no matter

how hard I have tried to hide it, while we were chatting. And he told

me about Sodasi.

Everything including anger, upset and whatever emotions I have felt

that day when I got back home ( I was almost in tears. I wanted to

report to the authorities so that they will confiscate his license

and that he will never be able to drive a taxi ever again )

evaporates. I have forgiven him. Thank you Lad-in_vogue wherever you

are now.

 

Om ParaShaktiye Namaha

[Guest Les]

1st post refers to a link to these sutras but I can't find one. Is there a link someone can post?