How Are Tantra and Bhakti Related? ( A repost )

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colin777

 

"Devi_bhakta : And what about the sexual element of the Left-Hand

Path? The "sexuality" of the pictures and texts upset non-Tantrics,

but it has nothing to do with approaching the Goddess with a lover's

bhakti . It's symbolic of the attempt to sublimate sexual energy --

to turn it into spiritual energy! That's the reality."

 

Namaste. I think there is good evidence that some left-hand tantrik

traditions have involved approaching the divine feminine with a

lover's bhakti.

 

Here is a passage from Kanhapada, a sadhaka of the Sahaja school,

who lived some centuries ago. I found it cited in the book _A

History of the Tantric Religion_ by N.N.Bhattarcharyya. (The

word "Dombi" means a woman of a particular caste, low in social

hierarchy.) "Outside the city, O Dombi, is thy cottage; thou goest

just touching the Brahmanas and the shaven-headed (and never reveal

thyself to them). O Dombi, I shall keep company with thee and it is

for the purpose that I have become a naked Kapali without aversions.

There is one lotus and sixty-four are the petals -- the dear Dombi

climbs on it and dances there... for thee I have done away with the

drama of life... for thee I have put on a garland of bones..." In

another of his songs, Kanhapada says: "The aristocrats are outside

thee and the Kapalis are within. Thou hast spoiled everything,

through the law of cause and effect, thou hast destroyed the moon.

Some speak ill of thee, but the learned never cast thee off from the

neck. Thou are Kamacandali -- there is no woman more cunning and

unfaithful than the Dombi." (Kamacandali can be translated 'the

passionate untouchable'.)

 

Om Shantih, Colin

 

adi_shakthi16

hey colin! what a stange co-incidence! i was just reading regarding

the bengali buddhist poets and came across these mystic poems of

kanhapada ! they are all written in the twillight language of tantra

(sandhya basha) - in the first verse that you have quoted above, the

poet is expressing NON-DUALITY- how he a high caste brahmin is

copulating with a weaver woman of low caste. (dombi) here is one i

liked a lot...please enjoy!

 

The mind is a tree, the five senses are its branches. Hope bears

fruits and leaves in abundance. Kanhu says : using the advice of

Guru as an axe cut off the branches so that passion, desire or

thirst does not grow back. The tree grows in the water of

righteousness. The Guru is witness, the wise uproot it. One who

does not know the mystery of this tree's growth and destruction.

fool is he to have to come back again and again in the Samsara

receive pain.

 

hari om tat sat!

 

 

devi_bhakta

 

Hi colin, and thanks for your comment, re: my statement in the

conversation Nora posted recently. You respond, "I think there is

good evidence that some left-hand tantrik traditions have involved

approaching the divine feminine with a lover's bhakti." Your

examples would certainly seem to indicate that this is true, and

frankly -- considering the huge numbers of devotees that Devi has in

her many forms, the widely differing temperaments and techniques of

the devotees, and particularly the central position Devi worship

holds in Tantra -- I would be very surprised if there *weren't* a

good number of devotees who approached her that way.

 

Reading the evidence backward, we have Banerjee, who loves Devi as

Mother, and who warns against *any* kind of "erotic implications" in

the devotee's approach to Her. Well, why would he even bother to say

that unless he was condemning an actual, current practice that he

knows to be in existence, and that runs counter to his own beliefs?

 

In general, the relationship between Tantra and Bhakti is an

extremely interesting area that merits further exploration. Padoux

wrote in "Hindu Tantrism" as follows: "Though the spirit of Tantrism

is in many ways opposed to that of bhakti, both can be reconciled and

are [sometimes] even promiscuously associated."

 

My question is: How? I've not really seen that topic addressed.

Certainly, Banerjea's condemnation of "lover's bhakti" suggests a

certain potential for antagonism between Tantra and Bhakti, as Coburn

notes. The clash, as Banerjea conceives it, would revolve chiefly

around whether one becomes (monistically) identified with the

Goddess, or (non-monistically) worships Her. Coburn himself mentions

the issue but declines to take it up, saying merely: "Bhakti and

Tantra share many features, but it is possible to distinguish between

them -- though not in a simple, linear fashion." (Here, I believe

he's referring to the fact that -- over the centuries -- both Tantric

and Vedic commentaries have accrued around the "Devi Mahatmyam.")

 

Here's another excerpt that touches on the question, this one

from "L'Hindouisme," by Madeleine Biardeau (translated by

Coburn): "Although in theory Tantra is very different from -- indeed

the reversal of -- Barhmanic values, in actual fact (and in most

literature) there is no distinction. One finds Tantric themes in

Puranas, and references to Puranas in Tantras. The great Puranas are

read in the temples, where the ritual is Tantric -- but understood

by 'the masses' from the perspective of bhakti. ... Prayers and

recitations serve both bhakti and Tantra, and it is in the temples

that one sees the two come together." Is that at all useful?

 

How can we spin it out in a way that illuminates this important

issue? I have a feeling you could contribute a lot to the topic,

Colin -- and I'm sure that our stalwart PenKatali will have a thing

or two to say as well upon his return from sabbatical. In fact, I'd

be interested to hear from any and all members. I never cease to be

astonished at the wisdom that is revealed when a formerly silent

member steps out of the shadows and begins to share with the club. I

hope these couple of excerpts provide at least a start for a good

discussion on this topic.

 

Aum Maatangyai Namahe

 

 

evil_djinia

 

Thank you for including me. Actually, by practice I may well be a

devi bhakta. I do TM, and looking through a book on istadevata I

found my mantra which I shouldn't say but it supposedly was bija of

yoni. I couldn't be more pleased actually. Far from disturbing my

equipoise during meditation I am more pleased. (Because I have tried

very hard to please yoni on many occasions). So even before joining

this group I was practising. But thanks to this group and members

here I have been inspired to learn more about spirituality and

tantricism in an intellectual way. Thanks everyone!

 

 

mohanji108

 

 

Faith. is that the answer you were looking for?

 

 

devi_bhakta

 

Hello, Mohan Ji! Nice to see you back again! In answer to my post on

the relationship between Tantra and Bhakti approaches to worship of

the Goddess, you offer a succinct one-word reply. "Faith." Well, I

think that's certainly a big part of the answer -- but isn't it

almost too big?

 

I mean, the same answer would apply just as well if the question

were "How are Judaism and Roman Catholicism related?" or "How are

Islam and Hinduism related?" Sure, Tantrism and Bhakti are both

ultimately based on faith, on belief in the Goddess.

 

But I think we should've got to get a little more specific than that.

If you look back through our posts from the last couple of weeks,

you'll see an interesting debate between two main "camps" of Goddess

worship. On the one hand, there are the bhaktas (devotional

worshippers) who believe She should be approached only as Mother and

are upset by anything that "smacks of eroticism" in relation to Her

worship.

 

On the other hand are the Tantrics, who see nothing scandalous in

acknowledging that the Goddess is Female, not just a "sexless" Mother

Figure. They say that contemplation of Her Femininity -- transcending

and sublimating mere earthly attraction and desire in spiritual

energy -- is an essential component of their sadhana. Furthermore, a

Tantric's esoteric goal is to BECOME the Goddess rather than simply

WORSHIP Her. In between, perhaps, are the bhaktas who -- although

not necessarily Tantrics -- do *not* agree that "Mother" is the only

proper devotional relationship to Devi. These members say that the

other "bhavas" are okay as well.

 

These other bhavas are, broadly:

(1) Shanta - peaceful contemplater of God/dess;

(2) Dasya - servant of God/dess (like Hanuman to Rama);

(3)Sakhya - friend of God/dess (like Arjuna to Krishna);

(4) Child of God/dess ("to approach the lotus feet of the divine

mother as a child yearning and crying for one's mother," as Adi put

it);

(5)Vatsalya - parent of God/dess (like Yashoda to Krishna, or

Ramakrishna to Kali); and (6)Madhurya - lover of God/dess (like

Radha to Krishna, or Shakti to Shiva), which Sri Swami Sivananda

called "the highest form of Bhakti."

 

But also the toughest, as it *must* be totally distinguished from

human sexual arousal and attraction. Since *any* of these Bhavas are

appropriate for devotees of Vishnu (Krishna, Rama) or Shiva -- the

dispute goes -- why should only MOTHER be appropriate for Devi? The

answer to our question -- how are Bhakti and Tantra related? -- must

address all of these diverse issues, or it has taught us nothing.

So you are right, Mohan Ji -- FAITH is probably the biggest ,

broadest answer -- but we should also think about the smaller,

tougher question and tease out whatever wisdom it can afford us.

 

Thank you again for your contribution.

 

Aum Maatangyai Namahe