Fw: TMNEWS Digest Number 789 Good article culled from internet on tantra (read in)

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Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:22 AM

TMNEWS Digest Number 789

 

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> There are 6 messages in this issue.

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> Topics in this digest:

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> 1. Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

> Joe Kellett <jkellett

> 2. Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

> "SteveRalph" <steveralph

> 3. Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

> Joe Kellett <jkellett

> 4. Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

> "Trinity" <mz1008

> 5. Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

> "purushaz" <purushaz

> 6. Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

> "SteveRalph" <steveralph

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

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> Message: 1

> Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:08:53 -0700

> Joe Kellett <jkellett

> Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

>

> Quoting SteveRalph <steveralph:

>

> >

> > Is MMY promoting Divine Mother

> > >worship? If not, then the Tradition he fostered is not the

> > >Shankaracharya Tradition; and all of his projects could fail without

> >

> > >the assistance of the Divine Mother. To gain her assistance, MMY

> > >should encourage people involved in the TMO to become active

> > devotees

> > >of Kali and Durga. People can start by getting the Durga puja CD

> > >from http://www.shreemaa.org . ....jiva

> >

> >

> > I think you need a reality audit, Jiva!

> >

> > SR

> >

>

> Compared to this?

>

> "Bubbling Bliss of Yogic Flying" <http://www.alltm.org/YFlying.html>

>

> --Joe

>

>

> --

> Joe Kellett

> (reformed former TM teacher)

> tanaats

>

> "Falling Down the TM Rabbit Hole" (How Transcendental Meditation

> Really Works, a Critical Opinion): www.suggestibility.org

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

..

>

>

> ______________________

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> Message: 2

> Wed, 14 Aug 2002 00:19:04 +0100

> "SteveRalph" <steveralph

> Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

>

>

>

> >>

> >>

> >> I think you need a reality audit, Jiva!

> >>

> >> SR

> >>

> >

> >Compared to this?

> >

> >"Bubbling Bliss of Yogic Flying" <http://www.alltm.org/YFlying.html>

> >

> >--Joe

>

>

> Joe, we *all* need reality checks now and then, to rejuvenate

> our sense of humour among other things. I prefer the experience

> of 'bubbling bliss' far more than 'it's all an induced trance'.

>

> Wouldn't you?

>

> Steve Ralph

>

> >--

> >Joe Kellett

> >(reformed former TM teacher)

> >tanaats

> >

> >"Falling Down the TM Rabbit Hole" (How Transcendental Meditation

> >Really Works, a Critical Opinion): www.suggestibility.org

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >..

> >

> >

> >Post Message TMNEWS

> >Un TMNEWS

> >Homepage TMNEWS

> >

> >

> >

> >Your use of is subject to

> >

> >

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 3

> Tue, 13 Aug 2002 16:44:03 -0700

> Joe Kellett <jkellett

> Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

>

> Quoting SteveRalph <steveralph:

>

> >

> >

> > >>

> > >>

> > >> I think you need a reality audit, Jiva!

> > >>

> > >> SR

> > >>

> > >

> > >Compared to this?

> > >

> > >"Bubbling Bliss of Yogic Flying"

> > <http://www.alltm.org/YFlying.html>

> > >

> > >--Joe

> >

> >

> > Joe, we *all* need reality checks now and then, to rejuvenate

> > our sense of humour among other things. I prefer the experience

> > of 'bubbling bliss' far more than 'it's all an induced trance'.

> >

> > Wouldn't you?

> >

> > Steve Ralph

> >

>

> Drug users make the same argument. Ever see "Trainspotting"?

>

> --Joe

>

>

>

>

>

>

..

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 4

> Wed, 14 Aug 2002 02:38:53 +0200

> "Trinity" <mz1008

> Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

>

> Jiva wrote:

> "Now here's a question I ask. MMY talks about a revival of the

> Shankarcharya Tradition. Are you aware that Divine Mother worship is

> an integral part of that Tradition? Is MMY promoting Divine Mother

> worship? If not, then the Tradition he fostered is not the

> Shankaracharya Tradition; and all of his projects could fail without

> the assistance of the Divine Mother. "

>

> Jiva, according to traditionalists maybe, but according to history? He was

a smarta. Smartas worship a set of five gods, which equaly represent

Brahman.

> The following is from a somewhat violently phrased work. I post it here

only for the historic relevance, not for its ideological or emotional

centent. Shankara was mainly promoting Vedanta on the basis of the Veda. He

would never deviate from the Veda's, while Shaktiism and Tantrism are

PreVedic

>

> from http://www.dalitstan.org/books/mohr/mohr2.html :

> Shankaracharya the Smarta

> According to Smarta propaganda, Shankaracharya reinstated `Hinduism' as

the common religion in Bharat after supposedly defeating the Buddhists in

`brilliant debates'. However, this is another false `Hindu Unity' myth of

the Brahmin Nazis :

> Shankaracharya was a Smarta [ srv.FAQ ], and he campaigned against the

Shaivites as well as Buddhists. His opposition to the Kappalikas (a sect of

Dravidian Shaivites) is swept under the carpet to create an illusion of

Hindu unity and subvert Sudra Religion. Prior to Nannaya the Carvak and

Kappalika schools were prevalent in Andhra-desha. Kumarila Bhatta (7 centry

AD) and Sankaracharya (788-820) preached against these and tried to revive

the Brahmanic Vedic dharma [ Red.625 ]. The attempts by Nannaya and his

patron-king Narendra (1022-63) to revive the Vedic dharma recieved a setback

due to the backlash of Virashavism [ Red.625 ], which utterly vanquished the

Vaishnava fanatics.

> Severe persecution of Buddhism had already diminished that religion to

near non-existence long before Shankaracharya (see chapter 4). Thus, the

Sunga King of Magadha offered 100 coins for the head of a Buddhists monk,

and Ashoka himself killed 18000 Jains.

> Smartas are virtually confined to Kerala. If Shankaracharya was so

successful, why did his Smarta doctrines not spread beyond that state ? Even

in Tamil Nadu it is said that a Smarta is merely a stepping-stone for

Dravidian converts from Shaivism to Aryan Vaishnavism. Noted anthropologist

Thurston has written about this `conversion':

> " About the Vadama Smartha Tamil Brahmins, there is the following saying:

"Vadamam muththi Vaishnavam", ie. "a Vadama ripens into a Vaishnava"

> -- [ Thurs i.334 ]

> Yet, despite all the efforts of Shankaracharya, the main religion of

Vaishnavism was not attacked by him. Why ? Because his Smarta movement was

merely meant to subvert the Buddhist and Sudroid religions.

> The figures quoted above show that the Smartas form less than 1 % of the

population, with Vaishnavas forming 70 %. Sankara only converted 1 % of the

Indian population to his doctrines !

>

> Shaktism

> The Indus Valley peoples practiced two religions : the Dravidian Religion

(`Shaivism') and the Mother-Goddess Cult. The latter was mainly of

Mediterranean origin (cf. the Cretan snake-goddess), whilst some influence

of Mon-Khmer peoples can also be traced.

>

> It is hence evident that Hinduism consists of different religions.

>

> 3.2.2 Tibetic Origin of Tantrism

> The original religion of the Sino-Tibetan peoples of India and Tibet was

Bon religion, what may be called Proto-Tantrism, since many concepts of

Tantrism can be found in Bon religion. The mad fantasy propagated by the

modern-day Aryan Vaidikas and Vaishnavas holds that this Tantrism is a

derivative of Vedic religion. Such fallacies have no foundation in any of

the Vedic texts. Please keep in mind that the Vedic Aryans are those same

monsters who invaded India, destroying the Harappan civlization, smashing

thousands of Shaiva and Shakta temples. These barbarians raped, looted and

destroyed the Indus Valley cities till no trace of them remained. Are such

people even capable of imagining such an intellectual philosophy as

Tantrsim, let alone be the originators of such a faith ?

> The answer is no. It cannot be. And I shall prove that below. The Tantric

religion has been presecuted by the Brahmanist fanatics of the 6 orthodox

schools for over two thousand years, and the Sinto-Tibetan peoples have been

exterminated from many parts of India by the racist Vedic Aryans. That

Tantrism is of Tibetan origin, being derived from the ancient Bon TIbetan

religion, is evident from the following :

>

>

> `Chinese Rites' - Tantrism is referred to as `The Chinese Rites' in the

Indian Tantric texts themselves [ Alchmey, p.149 ], indicating their origin

from `China' or Tibet, `Mahachina' being reserved for China Proper.

>

> Fifth Veda - The legend of the Fifth Veda as narrated in the Tantric texts

describe it falling from heaven into Tibet, and thus the people of that

country are referred to as adepts at the "Rites of the 5th Veda". As per

another legend, Brahma memorized all the 5 Vedas. He taught the 4 Vedas to

the Brahmans, but kept the 5th Veda (ie. the Tantras) safe for a time when

mankind was ready. Due to Brahma's arrogance, Shiva cut off his head, and

the 5th Veda then fell to Tibet, where its inhabitants took up the study

with great zeal [ Alchemy, p.149 ]. Thus, as per the Tantras themselves, the

original home of Tantrism is clearly stated to be Tibet.

>

> Mahadeva's Home - `Mahadeva', the phallic god of Tantrism (to be

distinguished from the black Dravido-Kolarian Shiva), is based on a Bon

`Great God' of the mountains. His home is in the Himalayas, and he is white

simply because he is Tibetic (North Mongoloid). Mt. Meru, `Mahadeva's Home',

is obviously in the Himalayas, probably near Lake Mansarovar. Hence, the

home of the supreme Tantric God is itself located in Tibet; another clear

indication of its origins.

>

> Vasishta's Travel to Tibet - As per the Rudrayamala Tantra [

Rudrayamalatantra.XVII ], Vasishta travelled to the sea-shore (this would

indicate Bengal) or, as per the Brahmayamala Tantra, [ Brahmayamalatantra

I-III ], to the Kamakhya hills, Assam. He observed strict Yoga worship for

the Devi Buddhesvari. He did for this for a long time without any results

and so cursed the Devi. Then the Devi appeared and said, " he had adopted an

altoghter wrong path; her worship was unknown in the Vedas ; it was known

only in the country of Mahacina; and that Vasishta would gain his object if

he received instruction from Vishnu now residing there as Buddha. There he

was surprised to find the Buddha drinking wine enjoying several women. His

doubts were soon dispelled by Buddha, who initiated him." [ cf also

Mahacinatantra ], [ Taratantram (Gaudagranthamala),Ch.141 ] [ Gupta ] [ cf

also Alchemy, p.151 ]. This story once again indicates the source of

Tantrism as being Tibet.

>

> Lamaism - Tantrism is still practiced in Tibet, where it is the national

religion, under the guise of Lamaism or Vajrayana `Buddhism'. All observers,

however, are aware that this religion owes more to Bon than to Buddhism.

Tantrism was more of an underground witchcraft movement in India. Orthodox

Vaishnavism was not very happy with such beliefs, and in Bengal the Tibetan

Buddhists (ie. Tantrics) were crushed by the Brahminist Sena dynasty. These

persons welcomed the Islamic invasion, since it led to the destruction of

Vaishnavite shrines. The Muslim Sufis further developed the mystic Tibetic

Tantrism, mixing it with Arabian alchemy and ancient Egyptian cults

(absorbed into Arab Sufism), as clearly depicted in the case of the Madari

Sufists. There are thus two fountainheads of mysticism in Asia, one is

Tibet, and the other Arabia (eg. the Syrian Harran, and the ancient Sabean

shrine of the Ka'aba, a representative of Saturn, the Sabean Priapus, which

as per Sufic doctrines was later absorbed into Islam).

>

> `Parvati' - The name of Mahadeva's wife is Parvati, meaning `of the

mountain', ie. she came from the Himalayas. She is depicted as fair in

Tantric paintings In Dravidian Saiva tradition, by contrast, the black Kali

is the consort of Shiva. This shows that the Sudric Shaiva and Tibetic

Tantric religions are distinct, separate faiths.

>

> Yab-Yum - Taoism in China has the concept of yin-yang, similar to the

Tantric yab-yum concept and the Adi-buddha and Adi-prajna notions in later

Buddhism [ Gupta, p.341 ].

>

> Goddess Uma - Uma is another manifestation of Shakti, and is referred to

as Haimavati or daughter of Himavat (the Himalaya range) [ Kena

Upanishad.III.25 ] [ Chandra, p.123 ]. She is another Tantric goddess from

the Tibetic Himalayas.

>

> Taoist Siddhas - The Siddha cult (a medieval Mughal alchmist cult) was, as

per its own tradition, introduced by one Taoist alchamist from China: This

popular tradition holds that the Siddhas were

> "a band of death-defying theriacal and therapeutic alchemists indebted in

all respects to Bhoga, a pre-Christian Taoist immigrant from China , who, in

his methods of cleaning up the body of impure matter through `reverberation'

and `projection' to the pitch of pracitcally cancelling demise, merely

sought to promulgate the lesser athanasic precepts of Lao-tse, since the

vital objective of the Tao-Teh-King is the transfiguration of the

immortalised ethereal body into a permanent garment of celestial virtue, in

order to fit it to associate to eternity with the Tao"

> -- [ Gupta, p. 193 ] and [ Siddha ]

>

> Mahacina Tantra - One of the Tantras is called `Mahacinatantra', and the

doctrines propounded are Taoist and Tibetic Bon. There are no `Bharat

Tantras' or `Arya Tantras'; hence to explain Tantrism away as a corruption

of Vedic religion is ridiculous.

>

> Dakini Tantra - Mark Roberts, researcher on Tantra, writes that the Dakini

school of Tantra originated in Tibet :

> " It is well recorded that in most ancient times, in a hidden corner of

the land that was to become Tibet, the Dakini had a Sacred Domain ~ a land

pure of males ~ and it is from their ancient realm that the Dakini first

shared the art of Tantra "

> -- [ Dakin ]

> All attempts to derive Dakini Tantra from Vedic faith are thus illogical.

>

> Mysticism - Mysticism is central to the Tantric religion, and still

pervades Sino-Tibetan culture. By contrast, there was no mystic tradition

during the Brahmanic Dark Ages (1500 BC - 1000 AD), since the Brahmins

maintained India in a period of enforced illiteracy and darkness.

>

> Alchemy - During the golden age of Indian alchemy, 1000 AD - 1800 AD,

comprising the era of the Caliphate of Delhi, Tibetic alchmey mixed with

Arabic-Islamic alchemy. Free from Orthodox Vaishnavite oppression,

Mughalstanic alchemy & Tantrism developed and expanded rapidly, representing

a mixture of Islamic Sufic and Tibetic Tantric traditions.

> Thus, one can construct the following chart of Indo-Tibetic religions :

> Old Bon Tibetic Religion

> / / \ \

> / Uttara Tantrism Bon Purbi (East Indic) Shaktism

> Lamaism / | / \ \

> / | Bengal Assamese Orissa

> Kashmir Shaivism | Tantrism Tantrism Tantrism

> Tantric Islam, Nath cult etc. | \

> Vaishnava Sahajiya Kamakhya

> etc. Cult etc.

>

> The Brahminist objection that the extant Tantras are very late and date to

the centuries AD is without consequence. The Tantras which survived the

Brahminic persecutions are renditions and copies of copies of ancient texts

and practices. No Vedic text is found on paper earlier than the 11th century

(paper was introduced by the Moslems), but that does not mean that the Vedas

were composed in the Islamic era. Similarly, these Tantras were composed in

Tibet in the early centuries BC, and only written down much later after

centuries of oral transmission.

>

> Thus, Tibet is the fountainhead of Tantrism, and in fact all mystic

knowledge in the East.

>

>

> 3.2.3 African Origin of Sudroid Shaivism

> The Aryans who followed the `astika' Brahminist religions of Vedism and

Vaishnavism (comprising the 6 orthodox schools) obliterated the Sudroid

religion of Shaivism from most of North India by destroying countless Shaiva

temples and racially exterminating Sudroids. Shaivism is related to native

African religion as is evident from :

>

> Shiva's Name Absent in Vedas - The name `Shiva' does not occur even once

as a name of a god in the Vedas. Moreover, the phallus worshippers are

disparagingly referred to as `shishna-devas' and as `Dasyus' in the Vedic

texts. It is thus absurd to claim Shiva is a Vedic god. Only Brahmin

historians who are experts at distorting history can put forth such

ludicrous lunacies.

>

> Dravidian Etymology of Shiva - The word `Shiva' is of Dravidian etymology,

`civa' meaning `reddened' or `angry' in Tamil. There is no sensible

etymology from Sanskrit, although wild fantasies have been set forth by the

Brahmins and Vaishnavas, claiming it is derived from `si'. Nothing could be

further from the truth.

>

> African Murungu - The East Africans worship a god called Murungu who is

the exact counterpart of the Dravidian god Murugan. Both have phallic

aspects [ Sud ].

>

> Voodoo - Indeed, one finds a kind of Dravidian `voodoo' among the

untouched Dravidians living in remote areas. The custom of piercing dolls

that represent the victim are to be found amongsst Sudroids.

>

> Black Lingas - The lingas in all of the Shiva temples are made of black

stone, indicating that a Black god is being worshipped. Had Shiva been

white, white marble lingas would have been constructed. It is only in the

Tibetic Tantric tradition that Mahadeva is white.

> One should not use the word `Tantrism' for this set of beliefs, since

Tantra means the 5th Veda from Tibet. Moreover, in Tantrism the male and

female principles are treated as equal, while in Sudroid Shaivism the male

principle is treated as more important. `Dravidian' or `Sudra religion' or

`Dravidian Shaivism' are better terms. This faith is independant of Tibetic

Tantrism. The practices may have been similar, but that does not justify

their confusion under one monolithic faith. Just because the Greeks had the

Dionysus and Priapus cults does not mean that they were `Tantrics' or

`Shaivites'; similarly the occurrence of Priapus-like cults among the

Dravidians and Bantu Africans does not imply they are Tantrics.

>

> It is important to distinguish the White Tibetic Mahadeva, the Black Old

Dravidian Shiva; and the Roman Hermes, Greek Priapus and Nordic Odin; they

have no relation. These are similar gods in different religions.

>

> However, in common usage in India, Tantra refers to any non-Vedic

practice, and incorporates many Dravidian beliefs. Some scholars indeed hold

Tantra to be of Dravidian origin, dating back to the pre-Aryan Indus Valley

[ 2T ]. There were however, Mongoloid inhabitants in the Indus Valley, and

hence Tantrism is not to be discounted as a possible Indus Valley faith.

>

>

> 3.2.4 Mon-Khmer Origin of Shaktism

> Shaktism, involving the veneration of Shakti, is still a major religion of

the Mon-Khmer races of India. That this religion is of non-Vedic Mon-Khmer

origin is proven by the following facts :

>

> Matriarchy - The Mon-Khmer peoples follow matriarchal customs, and hence

veneration of the Shakti or female principle, is natural for them.

Polyandry, matrilineal succession and other customs indicate the dominance

of women and the respect they were given in Mon-Khmer society.

>

> Brahminist Vaishnava Persecution of Women - The Aryan religions of Vedism,

Vaishnavism, Buddhism and Jainism have the slightest regard for women. In

fact, Vedism and Vaishnavism are the most dehumanising religions on record

as far as treatment of women is concerned. The horrific practices of Vedic

sati, dowry and Vedic female infanticide are just some of the examples of

the inhuman treatment meted out to women living under the restrictions

imposed by the Vedas. Given this dismal record, it is inconceiveable to

imagine a Vedic origin for Shaktism.

>

> Destruction of Shakta shrines - This religion and its followers were also

subject to savage persecution by the Aryan Vaishnavas. Thus, Arjun waged war

against the `Nagas' during the Mahabharatan Holocaust. Indeed, one only has

to go to any Vaishnava temple in India. All were built on the site of

Shaiva, Shakta or Tantra shrines after their desecrating, plundering and

demolition. Far from being the originators of these noble religions, the

Aryan Vaishnavas and Vaidiks have been the savage destroyers of these

faiths.

>

>

>

>

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>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 5

> Wed, 14 Aug 2002 02:27:07 -0000

> "purushaz" <purushaz

> Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

>

> TMNEWS, "Trinity" <mz1008> wrote:

> > Jiva wrote:

> > "Now here's a question I ask. MMY talks about a revival of the

> > Shankarcharya Tradition. Are you aware that Divine Mother worship

> is

> > an integral part of that Tradition? Is MMY promoting Divine Mother

> > worship? If not, then the Tradition he fostered is not the

> > Shankaracharya Tradition; and all of his projects could fail

> without

> > the assistance of the Divine Mother. "

> >

> > Jiva, according to traditionalists maybe, but according to history?

> He was a smarta. Smartas worship a set of five gods, which equaly

> represent Brahman.

> > The following is from a somewhat violently phrased work. I post it

> here only for the historic relevance, not for its ideological or

> emotional centent. Shankara was mainly promoting Vedanta on the basis

> of the Veda. He would never deviate from the Veda's, while Shaktiism

> and Tantrism are PreVedic

> >Thanks a lot for sharing this. Most interesting (if I could only

> understand what the message is. What you said above seems like a

> nice, concise summary of the matter)...In spite of anything said, I

> still maintain that Guru Dev was a devotee of Durga. on the basis of

> an extremely powerful lucid dream experience I had in 1988 in which

> he appeared to me, initiated me into the Durga mantra. That's my

> direct experience. Mahesh Himself previously pointed out that either

> Shankara or Gurus in that line were devotees of "Tripursundari".;

> then I checked out the website he provided, and that's what it said.

> But who is that? My tentative conclusion that "Divine Mother worship

> is an integral part of the Shankaracharya Tradition" stands, pending

> refutation, but there are other factors to consider, namely, 1. did

> the Tradition evolve or deviate from Shankara, 2. Who and why did

> Gurus in that line tack on "Saraswati". However, it is an historical

> fact that Shankara had Sri Yantras (Sri Chakras) inscribed in the

> various Temples he visited. Per texts on the subject of Sri Yantra or

> Sri Chakra, these mandalas are to be equated with Divine Mother

> worship. Last but not least, Mahesh Himself is fond of quoting one

> or two statements atributed to Shankara about Krishna worship. These

> seems credible but in view of Shankara's overall monism, I fail to

> see how one or two quotes on Krishna can translated into Krishna

> = "Sumpreme Personality of Godhead"; which begs the question of who

> YHVH is anyway. In any event, all of this is very fascinating and

> I'm even glad to see posts by Mahesh Himself once in a while since I

> happen to like Krihna but don't place Him in the categary of "Supreme

> Personality of Godhead".

> Also, both George and Willytex were quite thoughtful in posting

> something on Kashmir Saivism. Some aspects of this philosophy appeal

> to me since, although I'm "into" Ramana Maharshi, I simply can't

> digest his extremely Nihilistic version of Vedanta. At any rate, I've

> ironed out possible conflicts by placing the Totality within Pure

> Land Buddhism, since this School, like many other Buddhist schools

> doesn't spend much time talking about PC separate from reality

> itself. There are various substitute names for what Hindus might call

> Brahman but the lingo of a traditional Buddhist like the Dalai Lama

> is distinctly down to earth and devoid of philosophical terms. All

> Glory to Kali the Divine Mother and to the Celestial Bodhisattva,

> Kwan Yin!....Thanks again!...Let's have some more input by various

> people. jiva

> > from http://www.dalitstan.org/books/mohr/mohr2.html :

> > Shankaracharya the Smarta

> > According to Smarta propaganda, Shankaracharya reinstated

> `Hinduism' as the common religion in Bharat after supposedly

> defeating the Buddhists in `brilliant debates'. However, this is

> another false `Hindu Unity' myth of the Brahmin Nazis :

> > Shankaracharya was a Smarta [ srv.FAQ ], and he campaigned against

> the Shaivites as well as Buddhists. His opposition to the Kappalikas

> (a sect of Dravidian Shaivites) is swept under the carpet to create

> an illusion of Hindu unity and subvert Sudra Religion. Prior to

> Nannaya the Carvak and Kappalika schools were prevalent in Andhra-

> desha. Kumarila Bhatta (7 centry AD) and Sankaracharya (788-820)

> preached against these and tried to revive the Brahmanic Vedic dharma

> [ Red.625 ]. The attempts by Nannaya and his patron-king Narendra

> (1022-63) to revive the Vedic dharma recieved a setback due to the

> backlash of Virashavism [ Red.625 ], which utterly vanquished the

> Vaishnava fanatics.

> > Severe persecution of Buddhism had already diminished that religion

> to near non-existence long before Shankaracharya (see chapter 4).

> Thus, the Sunga King of Magadha offered 100 coins for the head of a

> Buddhists monk, and Ashoka himself killed 18000 Jains.

> > Smartas are virtually confined to Kerala. If Shankaracharya was so

> successful, why did his Smarta doctrines not spread beyond that

> state ? Even in Tamil Nadu it is said that a Smarta is merely a

> stepping-stone for Dravidian converts from Shaivism to Aryan

> Vaishnavism. Noted anthropologist Thurston has written about this

> `conversion':

> > " About the Vadama Smartha Tamil Brahmins, there is the following

> saying: "Vadamam muththi Vaishnavam", ie. "a Vadama ripens into a

> Vaishnava"

> > -- [ Thurs i.334 ]

> > Yet, despite all the efforts of Shankaracharya, the main religion

> of Vaishnavism was not attacked by him. Why ? Because his Smarta

> movement was merely meant to subvert the Buddhist and Sudroid

> religions.

> > The figures quoted above show that the Smartas form less than 1 %

> of the population, with Vaishnavas forming 70 %. Sankara only

> converted 1 % of the Indian population to his doctrines !

> >

> > Shaktism

> > The Indus Valley peoples practiced two religions : the Dravidian

> Religion (`Shaivism') and the Mother-Goddess Cult. The latter was

> mainly of Mediterranean origin (cf. the Cretan snake-goddess), whilst

> some influence of Mon-Khmer peoples can also be traced.

> >

> > It is hence evident that Hinduism consists of different religions.

> >

> > 3.2.2 Tibetic Origin of Tantrism

> > The original religion of the Sino-Tibetan peoples of India and

> Tibet was Bon religion, what may be called Proto-Tantrism, since many

> concepts of Tantrism can be found in Bon religion. The mad fantasy

> propagated by the modern-day Aryan Vaidikas and Vaishnavas holds that

> this Tantrism is a derivative of Vedic religion. Such fallacies have

> no foundation in any of the Vedic texts. Please keep in mind that the

> Vedic Aryans are those same monsters who invaded India, destroying

> the Harappan civlization, smashing thousands of Shaiva and Shakta

> temples. These barbarians raped, looted and destroyed the Indus

> Valley cities till no trace of them remained. Are such people even

> capable of imagining such an intellectual philosophy as Tantrsim, let

> alone be the originators of such a faith ?

> > The answer is no. It cannot be. And I shall prove that below. The

> Tantric religion has been presecuted by the Brahmanist fanatics of

> the 6 orthodox schools for over two thousand years, and the Sinto-

> Tibetan peoples have been exterminated from many parts of India by

> the racist Vedic Aryans. That Tantrism is of Tibetan origin, being

> derived from the ancient Bon TIbetan religion, is evident from the

> following :

> >

> >

> > `Chinese Rites' - Tantrism is referred to as `The Chinese Rites' in

> the Indian Tantric texts themselves [ Alchmey, p.149 ], indicating

> their origin from `China' or Tibet, `Mahachina' being reserved for

> China Proper.

> >

> > Fifth Veda - The legend of the Fifth Veda as narrated in the

> Tantric texts describe it falling from heaven into Tibet, and thus

> the people of that country are referred to as adepts at the "Rites of

> the 5th Veda". As per another legend, Brahma memorized all the 5

> Vedas. He taught the 4 Vedas to the Brahmans, but kept the 5th Veda

> (ie. the Tantras) safe for a time when mankind was ready. Due to

> Brahma's arrogance, Shiva cut off his head, and the 5th Veda then

> fell to Tibet, where its inhabitants took up the study with great

> zeal [ Alchemy, p.149 ]. Thus, as per the Tantras themselves, the

> original home of Tantrism is clearly stated to be Tibet.

> >

> > Mahadeva's Home - `Mahadeva', the phallic god of Tantrism (to be

> distinguished from the black Dravido-Kolarian Shiva), is based on a

> Bon `Great God' of the mountains. His home is in the Himalayas, and

> he is white simply because he is Tibetic (North Mongoloid). Mt. Meru,

> `Mahadeva's Home', is obviously in the Himalayas, probably near Lake

> Mansarovar. Hence, the home of the supreme Tantric God is itself

> located in Tibet; another clear indication of its origins.

> >

> > Vasishta's Travel to Tibet - As per the Rudrayamala Tantra [

> Rudrayamalatantra.XVII ], Vasishta travelled to the sea-shore (this

> would indicate Bengal) or, as per the Brahmayamala Tantra, [

> Brahmayamalatantra I-III ], to the Kamakhya hills, Assam. He observed

> strict Yoga worship for the Devi Buddhesvari. He did for this for a

> long time without any results and so cursed the Devi. Then the Devi

> appeared and said, " he had adopted an altoghter wrong path; her

> worship was unknown in the Vedas ; it was known only in the country

> of Mahacina; and that Vasishta would gain his object if he received

> instruction from Vishnu now residing there as Buddha. There he was

> surprised to find the Buddha drinking wine enjoying several women.

> His doubts were soon dispelled by Buddha, who initiated him." [ cf

> also Mahacinatantra ], [ Taratantram (Gaudagranthamala),Ch.141 ] [

> Gupta ] [ cf also Alchemy, p.151 ]. This story once again indicates

> the source of Tantrism as being Tibet.

> >

> > Lamaism - Tantrism is still practiced in Tibet, where it is the

> national religion, under the guise of Lamaism or Vajrayana

> `Buddhism'. All observers, however, are aware that this religion owes

> more to Bon than to Buddhism. Tantrism was more of an underground

> witchcraft movement in India. Orthodox Vaishnavism was not very happy

> with such beliefs, and in Bengal the Tibetan Buddhists (ie. Tantrics)

> were crushed by the Brahminist Sena dynasty. These persons welcomed

> the Islamic invasion, since it led to the destruction of Vaishnavite

> shrines. The Muslim Sufis further developed the mystic Tibetic

> Tantrism, mixing it with Arabian alchemy and ancient Egyptian cults

> (absorbed into Arab Sufism), as clearly depicted in the case of the

> Madari Sufists. There are thus two fountainheads of mysticism in

> Asia, one is Tibet, and the other Arabia (eg. the Syrian Harran, and

> the ancient Sabean shrine of the Ka'aba, a representative of Saturn,

> the Sabean Priapus, which as per Sufic doctrines was later absorbed

> into Islam).

> >

> > `Parvati' - The name of Mahadeva's wife is Parvati, meaning `of the

> mountain', ie. she came from the Himalayas. She is depicted as fair

> in Tantric paintings In Dravidian Saiva tradition, by contrast, the

> black Kali is the consort of Shiva. This shows that the Sudric Shaiva

> and Tibetic Tantric religions are distinct, separate faiths.

> >

> > Yab-Yum - Taoism in China has the concept of yin-yang, similar to

> the Tantric yab-yum concept and the Adi-buddha and Adi-prajna notions

> in later Buddhism [ Gupta, p.341 ].

> >

> > Goddess Uma - Uma is another manifestation of Shakti, and is

> referred to as Haimavati or daughter of Himavat (the Himalaya range)

> [ Kena Upanishad.III.25 ] [ Chandra, p.123 ]. She is another Tantric

> goddess from the Tibetic Himalayas.

> >

> > Taoist Siddhas - The Siddha cult (a medieval Mughal alchmist cult)

> was, as per its own tradition, introduced by one Taoist alchamist

> from China: This popular tradition holds that the Siddhas were

> > "a band of death-defying theriacal and therapeutic alchemists

> indebted in all respects to Bhoga, a pre-Christian Taoist immigrant

> from China , who, in his methods of cleaning up the body of impure

> matter through `reverberation' and `projection' to the pitch of

> pracitcally cancelling demise, merely sought to promulgate the lesser

> athanasic precepts of Lao-tse, since the vital objective of the Tao-

> Teh-King is the transfiguration of the immortalised ethereal body

> into a permanent garment of celestial virtue, in order to fit it to

> associate to eternity with the Tao"

> > -- [ Gupta, p. 193 ] and [ Siddha ]

> >

> > Mahacina Tantra - One of the Tantras is called `Mahacinatantra',

> and the doctrines propounded are Taoist and Tibetic Bon. There are no

> `Bharat Tantras' or `Arya Tantras'; hence to explain Tantrism away as

> a corruption of Vedic religion is ridiculous.

> >

> > Dakini Tantra - Mark Roberts, researcher on Tantra, writes that the

> Dakini school of Tantra originated in Tibet :

> > " It is well recorded that in most ancient times, in a hidden

> corner of the land that was to become Tibet, the Dakini had a Sacred

> Domain ~ a land pure of males ~ and it is from their ancient realm

> that the Dakini first shared the art of Tantra "

> > -- [ Dakin ]

> > All attempts to derive Dakini Tantra from Vedic faith are thus

> illogical.

> >

> > Mysticism - Mysticism is central to the Tantric religion, and still

> pervades Sino-Tibetan culture. By contrast, there was no mystic

> tradition during the Brahmanic Dark Ages (1500 BC - 1000 AD), since

> the Brahmins maintained India in a period of enforced illiteracy and

> darkness.

> >

> > Alchemy - During the golden age of Indian alchemy, 1000 AD - 1800

> AD, comprising the era of the Caliphate of Delhi, Tibetic alchmey

> mixed with Arabic-Islamic alchemy. Free from Orthodox Vaishnavite

> oppression, Mughalstanic alchemy & Tantrism developed and expanded

> rapidly, representing a mixture of Islamic Sufic and Tibetic Tantric

> traditions.

> > Thus, one can construct the following chart of Indo-Tibetic

> religions :

> > Old Bon Tibetic Religion

> > / / \ \

> > / Uttara Tantrism Bon Purbi (East Indic) Shaktism

> > Lamaism / | / \ \

> > / | Bengal Assamese Orissa

> > Kashmir Shaivism | Tantrism Tantrism Tantrism

> > Tantric Islam, Nath cult etc. | \

> > Vaishnava Sahajiya Kamakhya

> > etc. Cult etc.

> >

> > The Brahminist objection that the extant Tantras are very late and

> date to the centuries AD is without consequence. The Tantras which

> survived the Brahminic persecutions are renditions and copies of

> copies of ancient texts and practices. No Vedic text is found on

> paper earlier than the 11th century (paper was introduced by the

> Moslems), but that does not mean that the Vedas were composed in the

> Islamic era. Similarly, these Tantras were composed in Tibet in the

> early centuries BC, and only written down much later after centuries

> of oral transmission.

> >

> > Thus, Tibet is the fountainhead of Tantrism, and in fact all mystic

> knowledge in the East.

> >

> >

> > 3.2.3 African Origin of Sudroid Shaivism

> > The Aryans who followed the `astika' Brahminist religions of Vedism

> and Vaishnavism (comprising the 6 orthodox schools) obliterated the

> Sudroid religion of Shaivism from most of North India by destroying

> countless Shaiva temples and racially exterminating Sudroids.

> Shaivism is related to native African religion as is evident from :

> >

> > Shiva's Name Absent in Vedas - The name `Shiva' does not occur even

> once as a name of a god in the Vedas. Moreover, the phallus

> worshippers are disparagingly referred to as `shishna-devas' and as

> `Dasyus' in the Vedic texts. It is thus absurd to claim Shiva is a

> Vedic god. Only Brahmin historians who are experts at distorting

> history can put forth such ludicrous lunacies.

> >

> > Dravidian Etymology of Shiva - The word `Shiva' is of Dravidian

> etymology, `civa' meaning `reddened' or `angry' in Tamil. There is no

> sensible etymology from Sanskrit, although wild fantasies have been

> set forth by the Brahmins and Vaishnavas, claiming it is derived from

> `si'. Nothing could be further from the truth.

> >

> > African Murungu - The East Africans worship a god called Murungu

> who is the exact counterpart of the Dravidian god Murugan. Both have

> phallic aspects [ Sud ].

> >

> > Voodoo - Indeed, one finds a kind of Dravidian `voodoo' among the

> untouched Dravidians living in remote areas. The custom of piercing

> dolls that represent the victim are to be found amongsst Sudroids.

> >

> > Black Lingas - The lingas in all of the Shiva temples are made of

> black stone, indicating that a Black god is being worshipped. Had

> Shiva been white, white marble lingas would have been constructed. It

> is only in the Tibetic Tantric tradition that Mahadeva is white.

> > One should not use the word `Tantrism' for this set of beliefs,

> since Tantra means the 5th Veda from Tibet. Moreover, in Tantrism the

> male and female principles are treated as equal, while in Sudroid

> Shaivism the male principle is treated as more important. `Dravidian'

> or `Sudra religion' or `Dravidian Shaivism' are better terms. This

> faith is independant of Tibetic Tantrism. The practices may have been

> similar, but that does not justify their confusion under one

> monolithic faith. Just because the Greeks had the Dionysus and

> Priapus cults does not mean that they were `Tantrics' or `Shaivites';

> similarly the occurrence of Priapus-like cults among the Dravidians

> and Bantu Africans does not imply they are Tantrics.

> >

> > It is important to distinguish the White Tibetic Mahadeva, the

> Black Old Dravidian Shiva; and the Roman Hermes, Greek Priapus and

> Nordic Odin; they have no relation. These are similar gods in

> different religions.

> >

> > However, in common usage in India, Tantra refers to any non-Vedic

> practice, and incorporates many Dravidian beliefs. Some scholars

> indeed hold Tantra to be of Dravidian origin, dating back to the pre-

> Aryan Indus Valley [ 2T ]. There were however, Mongoloid inhabitants

> in the Indus Valley, and hence Tantrism is not to be discounted as a

> possible Indus Valley faith.

> >

> >

> > 3.2.4 Mon-Khmer Origin of Shaktism

> > Shaktism, involving the veneration of Shakti, is still a major

> religion of the Mon-Khmer races of India. That this religion is of

> non-Vedic Mon-Khmer origin is proven by the following facts :

> >

> > Matriarchy - The Mon-Khmer peoples follow matriarchal customs, and

> hence veneration of the Shakti or female principle, is natural for

> them. Polyandry, matrilineal succession and other customs indicate

> the dominance of women and the respect they were given in Mon-Khmer

> society.

> >

> > Brahminist Vaishnava Persecution of Women - The Aryan religions of

> Vedism, Vaishnavism, Buddhism and Jainism have the slightest regard

> for women. In fact, Vedism and Vaishnavism are the most dehumanising

> religions on record as far as treatment of women is concerned. The

> horrific practices of Vedic sati, dowry and Vedic female infanticide

> are just some of the examples of the inhuman treatment meted out to

> women living under the restrictions imposed by the Vedas. Given this

> dismal record, it is inconceiveable to imagine a Vedic origin for

> Shaktism.

> >

> > Destruction of Shakta shrines - This religion and its followers

> were also subject to savage persecution by the Aryan Vaishnavas.

> Thus, Arjun waged war against the `Nagas' during the Mahabharatan

> Holocaust. Indeed, one only has to go to any Vaishnava temple in

> India. All were built on the site of Shaiva, Shakta or Tantra shrines

> after their desecrating, plundering and demolition. Far from being

> the originators of these noble religions, the Aryan Vaishnavas and

> Vaidiks have been the savage destroyers of these faiths.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs

> > http://www.hotjobs.com

>

>

>

>

> ______________________

> ______________________

>

> Message: 6

> Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:06:24 +0100

> "SteveRalph" <steveralph

> Re: TM won't "cater to the poor" anymore

>

>

>

> >> >

> >> >Compared to this?

> >> >

> >> >"Bubbling Bliss of Yogic Flying"

> >> <http://www.alltm.org/YFlying.html>

> >> >

> >> >--Joe

> >>

> >>

> >> Joe, we *all* need reality checks now and then, to rejuvenate

> >> our sense of humour among other things. I prefer the experience

> >> of 'bubbling bliss' far more than 'it's all an induced trance'.

> >>

> >> Wouldn't you?

> >>

> >> Steve Ralph

> >>

> >

> >Drug users make the same argument. Ever see "Trainspotting"?

> >

> >--Joe

> >

> Now you are comparing people who practice TM etc to be similar to drug

> addicts. And there was me thinking you had no sense of humour! Maybe

> you could cure drug addiction by persuading them its just a placebo

effect?

>

> SR

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >..

> >

> >

> >Post Message TMNEWS

> >Un TMNEWS

> >Homepage TMNEWS

> >

> >

> >

> >Your use of is subject to

> >

> >

>

>

>

> ______________________

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>

>

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>

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