what is meant by conversion? COnVERSION-FAKE OR REAL?

[Guest guest]

-

 

 

dear s,

 

with all due respects to you, i beg to differ ! as you may be aware,

i hold your views in high regard and i have been reading all your

posts and always found them to be very interesting and informative...

but your latest response took me by surprise...

 

are you suggesting that we hindus should also stoop to such low and

degrading tactics and burn mosques ( places of worship) and burn

innocent men and women to seek revenge and retribution for atrocities

committed by Babar, Aurangzeb etc 100os of years ago? in this same

country, Ashoka also ruled....THE LAND OF MAHATMA GANDHI, VINOBA

BHAVE AND BAL GANGADHAR TILAK....

 

You are well versed in scriptures... do our vedas and upanishads

recommend this kind of violence ? many people may quote or misquote

srimad bhagwat gita in this regard and say we should uphold Dharma by

fighting, if necessary... but who is to decide what is dharma--- if

dharma means an 'eye for an eye' and 'a tooth for a tooth' -then that

is not 'dharma' AS i KNOW IT... swadhrma is different from Dharma-

oF COURSE, IF THERE IS A FULL SCALE WAR BETWEEN INDIA AND PAKISTAN,

then the soldiers should fight for the country they represent as an

act of patriotism.... but civilians should not resort to violence and

indulge in this kind of atrocities....

 

also, how do account for the burning of the 450 year old Babri mosque

in ayodhya? do you SUGGEST there is not enough land in ayodhya to

construct another temple ? AFTER ALL, IN BENARAS, THE TEMPLE AND

MOSQUE EXIST side by side?

 

true, about 50 or 100 hindus got burnt in that unforunate 'train

burning' incident? but what followed was even more bizarre... so many

areas occupied by muslims were ravaged and looted and burned down and

the Government took its own sweet time to 'control' the angry mob? on

what grounds do you justify this? i was ashamed to show my face in my

office for weeks because of this.... all my american friends were

laughing at india, my motherland, my pride!

 

no , dear! no! this is not the way! this is not right! this is

absolutely wrong! i am sorry! no way! let muslim extremists do what

they want but we hindus should know better ! after all, what makes

hindusim such a great religion? its viwes on tolerance, patience,

forgiveness and righteousness.... Sanatana dharma means tolerance !

 

yes, i may sound 'stupid' and i have already incurred the wrath of

many hindus for saying this but 'satyameva jayate' -truth always wins-

Dharma always triumphs----

 

Fanaticism is bad - and is not the way to go! The bjp and shiv sena

etc are already giving hinduisnm a bad name? do we want to add to

this mess and confusion? no, dear, no!

 

please forgive me, this is not the way to setlle issues... not

killing or burning or blowing up buildings or by acts of terrorism?

why do we have the united nations and other world bodies?

 

dear s, please let us be proud of our heritage and let us rise above

all this .....

 

thank you

 

love

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

, "adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16>

wrote:

>

> with all due respects to you, i beg to differ ! as you may be

aware,

> i hold your views in high regard and i have been reading all your

> posts and always found them to be very interesting and

informative...

> but your latest response took me by surprise...

>

> are you suggesting that we hindus should also stoop to such low

and

> degrading tactics and burn mosques ( places of worship) and burn

> innocent men and women to seek revenge and retribution for

atrocities

> committed by Babar, Aurangzeb etc 100os of years ago? in this same

> country, Ashoka also ruled....THE LAND OF MAHATMA GANDHI, VINOBA

> BHAVE AND BAL GANGADHAR TILAK....

 

 

I was talking only about provocation. Not about justifying

violence, nor do I support such killings whoever does that.

 

>

> do our vedas and upanishads

> recommend this kind of violence ? many people may quote or

misquote

> srimad bhagwat gita in this regard and say we should uphold Dharma

by

> fighting, if necessary... but who is to decide what is dharma---

if

> dharma means an 'eye for an eye' and 'a tooth for a tooth' -then

that

> is not 'dharma' AS i KNOW IT... swadhrma is different from Dharma-

> oF COURSE, IF THERE IS A FULL SCALE WAR BETWEEN INDIA AND

PAKISTAN,

> then the soldiers should fight for the country they represent as

an

> act of patriotism.... but civilians should not resort to violence

and

> indulge in this kind of atrocities....

 

 

Will respond later to this part. according to smritis one can

take up arms in times of danger(may be only when there is no other

way out). But lemme check. I may be wrong as I am not well versed

with our scriptures.

 

>

> also, how do account for the burning of the 450 year old Babri

mosque

> in ayodhya? do you SUGGEST there is not enough land in ayodhya to

> construct another temple ? AFTER ALL, IN BENARAS, THE TEMPLE AND

> MOSQUE EXIST side by side?

 

 

I agree that burning of that mosque is unnecessary.

 

>

> true, about 50 or 100 hindus got burnt in that unforunate 'train

> burning' incident? but what followed was even more bizarre... so

many

> areas occupied by muslims were ravaged and looted and burned down

and

> the Government took its own sweet time to 'control' the angry mob?

on

> what grounds do you justify this? i was ashamed to show my face in

my

> office for weeks because of this.... all my american friends were

> laughing at india, my motherland, my pride!

>

> no , dear! no! this is not the way! this is not right! this is

> absolutely wrong! i am sorry! no way! let muslim extremists do

what

> they want but we hindus should know better ! after all, what makes

> hindusim such a great religion? its viwes on tolerance, patience,

> forgiveness and righteousness.... Sanatana dharma means

tolerance !

>

> yes, i may sound 'stupid' and i have already incurred the wrath of

> many hindus for saying this but 'satyameva jayate' -truth always

wins-

> Dharma always triumphs----

 

>

> Fanaticism is bad - and is not the way to go! The bjp and shiv

sena

> etc are already giving hinduisnm a bad name? do we want to add to

> this mess and confusion? no, dear, no!

 

 

According to Meriam Webster, The meaning of fanatic is::" marked

by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion "

 

>

> please forgive me, this is not the way to setlle issues... not

> killing or burning or blowing up buildings or by acts of

terrorism?

> why do we have the united nations and other world bodies?

>

> dear s, please let us be proud of our heritage and let us rise

 

 

All I was saying is that there is lot of provocation. Period.

 

Violence of course can never be justified, except may be in cases

of apadh dharm(i.e dharm during emergencies).

 

Thx

S.

 

 

 

above

> all this .....

>

> thank you

>

> love

[Guest guest]

Pranam. May I please add a personal thought?

I believe that we should not hate anyone or any group. I believe that if we do

that, we might in our next janma be born in that group. After all, we are here

to learn to become part of God, not part of any group. Yes, I get angry when

anyone disses our religion or when I hear Hindus being attacked upon. At those

times, rage clouds my intellect and I consign the entire muslim population or

Christian population to 'Hell'.

Then, afterwards, I remember. Those Muslims and Christians who have helped me,

my family and others to their great expense. I see those who have such good

qualities that makes wish they were Hindus.:-) They do not deserve such curses.

What we think and do contributes to not only our karma but to the karma of our

family, city, state, country,sex, religous group and ultimately the planet. So,

those fundamentalists will be born in those groups that they despised so. They

will learn about the other side.

The way I see it all religions are like the ranks in school. If Islam and

Christianity are like primary level, then Sanatan Dharma is like tertiary level.

We have all been there. If the primary level kids misbehave, it is our duty to

teach them the better way and not hurt or kill them. If we do that, then we will

be sent back to said primary level. Not a good idea.;-)

The above thoughts do not automatically rise in my mind when I hear of a new

atrocity carried out in the name of God. When I heard about Bali, I sincerely

wanted to hurt those people who were responsible in the same way. But, I am

trying hard to change my response.

I read in a book that what we humans think will ultimately affect us and our

future generations. Not even what we Do but what we Think.(I believe that our

scripture state this as well.) And that whenever we are confronted by hate and

evil, all of us should concentrate and say with our full heart"Love will

triumph" If enough of us do this, we can change this world for the better.

Therefore, I ask you. You might discount my opinion. But, please, let us think

and meditate the Love will indeed triumph. Perhaps, just perhaps, those who are

ignorant will change from their hearts onwards, not merely their intellects.

With Love

Shankaree

P.s. I do, however think that we should do something to revitalise our faith.

Perhaps, we can discuss what we can do?

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

, shankaree ramatas <shankaree> wrote:

> "The way I see it all religions are like the ranks in school. If

Islam and Christianity are like primary level, then Sanatan Dharma is

like tertiary level."

 

I would say that it is not really possible to put different religions

on different levels. The highest mystical sects of Islam or

Christianity are just as exalted as those of the Sanatana Dharma. Just

the same, the basic "blind faith" type of religiosity exists in Islam,

Christianity, and the Sanatama Dharma as well. Remember that

Ramakrishna explored both Christianity and Islam and came to same

conclusions as the Sanatana Dharma.

> "If the primary level kids misbehave, it is our duty to teach them

the better way and not hurt or kill them."

 

But isn't this how the missionaries think? The problem comes from

thinking that "we have a better way." Nay, I take that back. The

problem comes from thinking "us" and "them." You are right: love is

the only answer.