ego of devotion and ego of knowledge!!

[Guest guest]

this is very true!! thanks, siva dancer!!

 

that is why great saints like shri ramakrishna , adi shankara always

maintained the 'ego of devotion' and 'ego of knowledge' !! what it

means is even though shri ramkrishna attainened 'samadhi', he always

came down from that status just to enjoy the company of other

devotess (satsangha); not only that, he loved to share

his 'knowledge' with this satsangha!! this is true of adi shankara

and sri ramna maharishi as well!! such is the greatness of these maha-

purushas!

 

what is the use of knowing the depths of the ocean if you are not

willing to teach other seekers how to dive deep and get to the depths

of the ocean? so, the great vedantins do reain a little bit of non-

vedantic ego to help other devotees to cross the shoreless ocean of

sat-chit-ananda!

 

that is why swami vivekananda became a 'parivrajika' sadhu

(spelling?) which when translated means 'wandering' monk- he went

from place to place enlightening others!!!

 

jaya shri gurudeva!

jaya jaya shankara!

[Guest guest]

"What is the use of knowing the depths of the ocean if you are not

willing to teach other seekers how to dive deep and get to the depths

of the ocean?"

 

A true seeker of knowledge will know the virtues of patience,

tolerance and humility.

 

Now this is my personal opinion : Knowledge I believe is like

blessings. Infact Knowledge it self is the manifestation of Saraswati

Devi. If Saraswati Devi have choose not to impart that Knowledge to

me or come to me, then it is time for me to really look at myself and

see the fault in me. Dont blame others if they have choose not to

teach me ( and call them egoist or being egolistical ). Even if I

have one of the greatest Swami/guru to guide me will it means that I

will be knowledgeable or enlightened?

 

Knowledge is all around us, and it is not only confine to an

institution or the class room. It is how receptive we are to

knowlege. Can we really see that knowledge when it comes pass us. Can

we really appreciate that knowledge when it was imparted to us. Are

we ready to receive that Knowledge? We need to ask ourselves these

questions.

 

"A person walking on the path of self-transformation should be aware

of the dangers of egoism. Even while practicing the great virtues of

truthfulness and nonviolence, a person can feed the ego. The ego

related to the realm of spirituality is more subtle and injurious

than the ego related to one's worldly success"

Swami Rama : Sadhana: the essence of Spiritual life

 

Om Aim Saraswatyai Namah

Om Salutations and Prostrations to the Goddess Saraswati!

Om ParaShaktiye Namaha

[Guest guest]

OM Nora

 

Those who teach after having attained NIrvikalpa- or

Asamprajnata Samadhi, the truly egoless state where there is

no mental content, not even of consciousness, do so because it

is their destiny to do so. They are doing their duty, the only thing

that they can do. These people deserve our respect, even our

adoration, but they tell us that Self-Realization comes from within

not without. Those who attain Nirvikalpa Samadhi and do not

teach are similarly following their path. Neither path is better.

Neither path is more selfish. Neither path is more virtuous. Each

path is what is correct for that person.

 

Even Avatars, in returning to earth to lead mankind, follow a

dharma of helping others. It is their role. They enter a

conditioned state willingly. The Mahabharata says, "Abandon

dharma and adharma; abandon truth and falsehood. Having

abandoned truth and falsehood, abandon the [principle, i.e., the

mind] by which you abandon [everything]. (XII.316.40). But to

come into the phenomenal world as avatars do, is to be aware of

consciousness and therefore, at least temporarily, acquire a

dharma path. As soon as the avatar becomes aware of a motive,

even such a motive as Love or Compassion, for helping the rest

of us, the avatar has taken form and is subject to karma. Is that a

choice or an eternal destiny (just as we each have our own

destiny).

 

Your quote of Swami Rama is welcome and timely. Ego comes

with form, with time and space, with knowledge. Egolessness

comes from being Brahman, not from knowing Brahman. All

great saints and sages warn repeatedly that one of the great

obstacles to Self-Realization is spiritual pride. The higher one

ascends, the farther one can fall.

 

Just for interest sake, here are the seven boomikas of states of

consciousness of Jnana Yoga:

 

 

1. Subecha-longing for truth

The practitioner has rightly distinguished between the

permanent and the impermanent. He has cultivated a feeling of

dislike towards worldly pleasures. He has acquired full mastery

over his organs, physical and mental, and feels an insatiable

longing to free himself from this cycle of existence.

 

2. Vicharana-right inquiry

The sadhaka has pondered over what they have read and

heard and has realized it in his life.

 

3 Tanumanasa-fading out of the mind

The mind has abandoned the many and remains steadily

fixed on the one.

 

4. Satvapatti-attainment of the state of sattva

He recognizes the Truth within himself:"I am Brahman" He is

now called Brahmavid, Knower of Brahman.

 

The above stages constitute Samprajnata Samadhi or

contemplation where consciousness of duality still lingers. The

next three stages form Asamprajnata Samadhi where there is

consciousness of the triad, knower, knowledge, and the known.

 

5.Asamsakti-being unaffected by anything

Unaffected by anything even the siddhis that manifest at this

stage. The Yogi is now called Brahmavidvara.

 

6. Pararthabhavani-sees nothing but Brahman everwhere

The external things do not exist, he sees Brahaman

everywhere. The Yogi only performs his daily duties when

prompted by another. Sanchita and Agami karma has been

destroyed. There remains only a small amount of Prarabdha

Karma.

 

7. Swatmarama or Turiya-perpetual samadhi.

The practitioner is called Brahmavaristha. He neither perfoms

his daily duties himself or when prompted by others. The body

will drop off approximately three days after entering this stage.

 

These stages demonstrate that the yogi is following a process of

Self-Realization . Those not yet on this path or at the early

stages of it, are often tempted to idolize those at higher stages.

This is not a good practice: it demonstates the ego and desire of

those at lower stages and it could inflame the ego of those at

higher stages who are still have a little ego and are still subject

to karma.

 

OM Saha Naavavatu, Saha nau bhunaktu, Saha veeryam

karavaabahai

Tejasvinaavadheetamastu, Maa vidvishavahai

OM Shantih, Shantih, Shantih

 

Omprem

 

 

 

, "Nora" <ashwini_puralasamy>

wrote:

> "What is the use of knowing the depths of the ocean if you are

not

> willing to teach other seekers how to dive deep and get to the

depths

> of the ocean?"

>

> A true seeker of knowledge will know the virtues of patience,

> tolerance and humility.

>

> Now this is my personal opinion : Knowledge I believe is like

> blessings. Infact Knowledge it self is the manifestation of

Saraswati

> Devi. If Saraswati Devi have choose not to impart that

Knowledge to

> me or come to me, then it is time for me to really look at myself

and

> see the fault in me. Dont blame others if they have choose not

to

> teach me ( and call them egoist or being egolistical ). Even if I

> have one of the greatest Swami/guru to guide me will it means

that I

> will be knowledgeable or enlightened?

>

> Knowledge is all around us, and it is not only confine to an

> institution or the class room. It is how receptive we are to

> knowlege. Can we really see that knowledge when it comes

pass us. Can

> we really appreciate that knowledge when it was imparted to

us. Are

> we ready to receive that Knowledge? We need to ask

ourselves these

> questions.

>

> "A person walking on the path of self-transformation should be

aware

> of the dangers of egoism. Even while practicing the great

virtues of

> truthfulness and nonviolence, a person can feed the ego. The

ego

> related to the realm of spirituality is more subtle and injurious

> than the ego related to one's worldly success"

> Swami Rama : Sadhana: the essence of Spiritual life

>

> Om Aim Saraswatyai Namah

> Om Salutations and Prostrations to the Goddess Saraswati!

> Om ParaShaktiye Namaha

[Guest guest]

exactly, nora!

 

yes, it is we who have to be patient and understanding not Saraswati

devi!!! so only when we are ready, the knowledge or guru will

appear!! the knower of brahman is bRahman himself!!

 

thank you! this is also my personal opinion!!!

 

love and take care!

 

ps - i don't think anybody is being blamed!!

[Guest guest]

dear nora!

 

btw, the quote was really very timely and very appropriate ! thank

you for sharing that!!

 

but, in my opinion any kind of 'pride, arrogance , vanity " is

deplorable , both spiritual and non-spiritual!!! so, we have people

like mohammed ali who say 'i am the greatest' and then we have so

called fake swamis and gurus who claim they are god's gift to

mankind;

 

but the knowledge i was referring to in my post was not

just 'knowledge' as is normally understood !! i was referring to the

knowledge of the self (atma jnana) or brahma-jnana(knowledge of

brahman) - and that is possible only with the help of a self-realized

souls... and guru is brahma, vishnu and maheshwera in human form!!

he/she can also be saraswati, lakshmi and parvati in human form... a

self- relaized guru is god/ess in human form!! shri ramana maharishi

is considered shri dakshinamurthy himself! so is adi shankara!

 

and you are right- shri ramana never liked it when his devotees

called him 'maharishi' or guru! such was his humility! total

egolessness!!! in any case, at some point the disciple merges with

the guru and are not two seperate entities!!

 

jai gurudeva!

 

hari om tat sat!!!