Guest guest Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 Dear sirs, First and formost in most temples kaali is kept in pancha munda asan for making maa kaali diety powerful. The word "mamsa preedhayi namaha" as per greatest of treasures lalitha saharsarnama cannot be wrong. I too would love to believe that god never wants bali but if someone offers a bali she accepts it. it is said even the great shri aadi shankara could not make the mother not to accept bali. however he converted the red tongue of the great maha kali as golden instead of red & made her into a shanta swaroopa. Early fifties it is said man sacrifice was very much prevelent in bengal the prevelent place of makaali worship.Shankara vijayam also talks of the kapalika episode when the great aadi shankara offered himself for the sacrifice only to be saved by his diciple. I feel this is just bhava as if one belives in course of his dharma that he wants to sacrifice with the fullnes of his heart the god accepts the same however dharma varies from person to person" atho tha dharma jignasaha" . with warm regards shankar --- pidaparthi sujatha <srikali2000 wrote: > Dear friends, > this is the first time i am interacting with u all > though i read all mail with interest. Yes you are > absolutely right. If you look at it right Kali is > very sweet and never wants a bali of animals and the > puja is equivalent to Vishnu puja and very satvic, > though Her picturisation is different. If u can > perceive Her u will know that She is absolutely > satvic > and does not infact like Bali of Her own children. > > The best She would like if at all is Satvic Ahar. > The more u worship Her, the less of rituals u can > do. > love to one and all, > sujatha > --- kalika Putra <dakinic_monk wrote: > > > > > > I can only laugh; my friend the devi gita is > > applicable to all Shakti > > sadhana; it is the holy word of the female > divinity. > > I do agree with levels > > you are talking about, but you cannot reach > another > > chakra whilst your > > mooladhara isn't fully awaken, when you open > > muladhara the bhumi bhuta or > > earth element is what your first realise hence > > gravity will no prevail. > > > > In the process you will feel your lower body > > sweating a great deal when you > > do sadhana then your whole body will tremble, > later > > on sweet oils will come > > out of your sweat glands and then you attain > > levitation. > > > > You can go up or down the Kundalini since there is > > like 7 or three chakras > > below the muladhara however that I think is known > as > > asuri sadhanas. > > > > Any sadhana that makes you offer animal sacrifice, > > self torture, sexual acts > > or any rajasic acts is known as asuri siddhanta > and > > although very very fast > > gives you bad karma. Babaji is totally against > this > > hence I cannot delve > > into this. > > > > Devi is divine and there isn't any pre requisite > to > > get her darshan, I was a > > pitiful little *censored* and Devi took pitty on > my > > many attempts, I always > > used to have ropes and chains next to me to tie > her > > up when she comes I > > think that was the reason why she didn't showup > the > > first time. LOL > > > > I did ask Babaji and he mentioned that without > doing > > the utkilana rituals > > and a Guru's grace one can never attain sadhana, I > > already saw Shiva and > > Vishnu as my gurus and Devi thus gave me this > boon, > > I haven't opened my > > Kundalini if I did I would be doing tapas right > now. > > I am honoured that you can think so highly of me, > > but to tell you the truth > > all my attempts were pathetic. I never liked > tantra > > and am still not really > > fond of it since I don't understand it much, there > > isn't any rajasic or > > tamasic ritual that I do; the only things > partially > > tamasic is the bali of > > coconut, lime and white vinegar instead of > alcohol. > > But like I said Asuri > > Sadhana isn't all that good however there are > > exceptions like for instance > > the worship of Dakini, she is rajasic in nature > but > > that doesn't mean you go > > around slaughtering animals and offering your > blood. > > > > I am dead against Animal Sacrifice and the only > > rajasic offerings that I can > > cite is one's own blood and rum but even then I > > personally don't do that. > > Let me put it this way the way one worships Lord > > Vishnu should be the way > > one worships all Gods and Goddesses and a purely > > satvic way and mostly > > mental. The only bali that Gods crave is of your > > animal instincts and your > > ahamkara. > > > > Chamundi is usually associated as a blood > consuming > > form of Durga, but she > > is just the destroyer of your bad senses, Kali is > > all consuming she burns > > and consumes your bad karma. There is a esoteric > > side to these rituals and > > the higher you go the less physical rituals you > > shall do, it is just a means > > of focusing, a form of visualisation. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > http://mailplus. > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 Dear everyone, agreed, that this is there in Lalitha Sahasranamam, and it upsets me when i read the phrase. But are we understanding its real meaning or only the text? that we have to dwell into. if anyone happens to visit Sri Ujjaini Mahankali Temple at secunderabad, a place where bali was rampant many , many years ago but not today,you can see Her very peaceful and sweet. for all the time i have been worshipping Her, i have realised Her from a terrifying Diety to a very, very sweet Ma, who is the epitome of peace and not pain which is bali. this was evident in many experiences i have had in Her temple and in my life. it is interesting to know the views of others regarding Ma. love to all lovers of Ma sujatha --- krishnamoorthy shankar <junk74_in wrote: > Dear sirs, > First and formost in most temples kaali is kept in > pancha munda asan for making maa kaali diety > powerful. > > The word "mamsa preedhayi namaha" as per greatest of > treasures lalitha saharsarnama cannot be wrong. I > too > would love to believe that god never wants bali but > if > someone offers a bali she accepts it. it is said > even > the great shri aadi shankara could not make the > mother > not to accept bali. however he converted the red > tongue of the great maha kali as golden instead of > red > & made her into a shanta swaroopa. > > Early fifties it is said man sacrifice was very > much > prevelent in bengal the prevelent place of makaali > worship.Shankara vijayam also talks of the kapalika > episode when the great aadi shankara offered > himself > for the sacrifice only to be saved by his diciple. > > I feel this is just bhava as if one belives in > course > of his dharma that he wants to sacrifice with the > fullnes of his heart the god accepts the same > however > dharma varies from person to person" atho tha dharma > jignasaha" . > with warm regards > shankar > --- pidaparthi sujatha <srikali2000 > wrote: > > Dear friends, > > this is the first time i am interacting with u all > > though i read all mail with interest. Yes you > are > > absolutely right. If you look at it right Kali > is > > very sweet and never wants a bali of animals and > the > > puja is equivalent to Vishnu puja and very satvic, > > though Her picturisation is different. If u can > > perceive Her u will know that She is absolutely > > satvic > > and does not infact like Bali of Her own children. > > > > > The best She would like if at all is Satvic Ahar. > > > The more u worship Her, the less of rituals u can > > do. > > love to one and all, > > sujatha > > --- kalika Putra <dakinic_monk > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I can only laugh; my friend the devi gita is > > > applicable to all Shakti > > > sadhana; it is the holy word of the female > > divinity. > > > I do agree with levels > > > you are talking about, but you cannot reach > > another > > > chakra whilst your > > > mooladhara isn't fully awaken, when you open > > > muladhara the bhumi bhuta or > > > earth element is what your first realise hence > > > gravity will no prevail. > > > > > > In the process you will feel your lower body > > > sweating a great deal when you > > > do sadhana then your whole body will tremble, > > later > > > on sweet oils will come > > > out of your sweat glands and then you attain > > > levitation. > > > > > > You can go up or down the Kundalini since there > is > > > like 7 or three chakras > > > below the muladhara however that I think is > known > > as > > > asuri sadhanas. > > > > > > Any sadhana that makes you offer animal > sacrifice, > > > self torture, sexual acts > > > or any rajasic acts is known as asuri siddhanta > > and > > > although very very fast > > > gives you bad karma. Babaji is totally against > > this > > > hence I cannot delve > > > into this. > > > > > > Devi is divine and there isn't any pre requisite > > to > > > get her darshan, I was a > > > pitiful little *censored* and Devi took pitty on > > my > > > many attempts, I always > > > used to have ropes and chains next to me to tie > > her > > > up when she comes I > > > think that was the reason why she didn't showup > > the > > > first time. LOL > > > > > > I did ask Babaji and he mentioned that without > > doing > > > the utkilana rituals > > > and a Guru's grace one can never attain sadhana, > I > > > already saw Shiva and > > > Vishnu as my gurus and Devi thus gave me this > > boon, > > > I haven't opened my > > > Kundalini if I did I would be doing tapas right > > now. > > > I am honoured that you can think so highly of > me, > > > but to tell you the truth > > > all my attempts were pathetic. I never liked > > tantra > > > and am still not really > > > fond of it since I don't understand it much, > there > > > isn't any rajasic or > > > tamasic ritual that I do; the only things > > partially > > > tamasic is the bali of > > > coconut, lime and white vinegar instead of > > alcohol. > > > But like I said Asuri > > > Sadhana isn't all that good however there are > > > exceptions like for instance > > > the worship of Dakini, she is rajasic in nature > > but > > > that doesn't mean you go > > > around slaughtering animals and offering your > > blood. > > > > > > I am dead against Animal Sacrifice and the only > > > rajasic offerings that I can > > > cite is one's own blood and rum but even then I > > > personally don't do that. > > > Let me put it this way the way one worships Lord > > > Vishnu should be the way > > > one worships all Gods and Goddesses and a purely > > > satvic way and mostly > > > mental. The only bali that Gods crave is of your > > > animal instincts and your > > > ahamkara. > > > > > > Chamundi is usually associated as a blood > > consuming > > > form of Durga, but she > > > is just the destroyer of your bad senses, Kali > is > > > all consuming she burns > > > and consumes your bad karma. There is a esoteric > > > side to these rituals and > > > the higher you go the less physical rituals you > > > shall do, it is just a means > > > of focusing, a form of visualisation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > > now. > > http://mailplus. > > > > > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > http://mailplus. > === message truncated === ===== Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 Dear Sir, further to our discussion, in Bhagavad Gita, i remember it is written that the real meaning of Mamsa is i do unto u what u do unto me. so maybe the meaning of the mantra is that She does not want pain to be induced because anyone who creates pain will have to undergo the same and so with this She is implying that She loves nonvoilence and not the other way round. i would love to hear what u all have to say about this. reg. bali i think She wants the bali of all our vices and not animals. regards, sujatha --- krishnamoorthy shankar <junk74_in wrote: > Dear sirs, > First and formost in most temples kaali is kept in > pancha munda asan for making maa kaali diety > powerful. > > The word "mamsa preedhayi namaha" as per greatest of > treasures lalitha saharsarnama cannot be wrong. I > too > would love to believe that god never wants bali but > if > someone offers a bali she accepts it. it is said > even > the great shri aadi shankara could not make the > mother > not to accept bali. however he converted the red > tongue of the great maha kali as golden instead of > red > & made her into a shanta swaroopa. > > Early fifties it is said man sacrifice was very > much > prevelent in bengal the prevelent place of makaali > worship.Shankara vijayam also talks of the kapalika > episode when the great aadi shankara offered > himself > for the sacrifice only to be saved by his diciple. > > I feel this is just bhava as if one belives in > course > of his dharma that he wants to sacrifice with the > fullnes of his heart the god accepts the same > however > dharma varies from person to person" atho tha dharma > jignasaha" . > with warm regards > shankar > --- pidaparthi sujatha <srikali2000 > wrote: > > Dear friends, > > this is the first time i am interacting with u all > > though i read all mail with interest. Yes you > are > > absolutely right. If you look at it right Kali > is > > very sweet and never wants a bali of animals and > the > > puja is equivalent to Vishnu puja and very satvic, > > though Her picturisation is different. If u can > > perceive Her u will know that She is absolutely > > satvic > > and does not infact like Bali of Her own children. > > > > > The best She would like if at all is Satvic Ahar. > > > The more u worship Her, the less of rituals u can > > do. > > love to one and all, > > sujatha > > --- kalika Putra <dakinic_monk > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I can only laugh; my friend the devi gita is > > > applicable to all Shakti > > > sadhana; it is the holy word of the female > > divinity. > > > I do agree with levels > > > you are talking about, but you cannot reach > > another > > > chakra whilst your > > > mooladhara isn't fully awaken, when you open > > > muladhara the bhumi bhuta or > > > earth element is what your first realise hence > > > gravity will no prevail. > > > > > > In the process you will feel your lower body > > > sweating a great deal when you > > > do sadhana then your whole body will tremble, > > later > > > on sweet oils will come > > > out of your sweat glands and then you attain > > > levitation. > > > > > > You can go up or down the Kundalini since there > is > > > like 7 or three chakras > > > below the muladhara however that I think is > known > > as > > > asuri sadhanas. > > > > > > Any sadhana that makes you offer animal > sacrifice, > > > self torture, sexual acts > > > or any rajasic acts is known as asuri siddhanta > > and > > > although very very fast > > > gives you bad karma. Babaji is totally against > > this > > > hence I cannot delve > > > into this. > > > > > > Devi is divine and there isn't any pre requisite > > to > > > get her darshan, I was a > > > pitiful little *censored* and Devi took pitty on > > my > > > many attempts, I always > > > used to have ropes and chains next to me to tie > > her > > > up when she comes I > > > think that was the reason why she didn't showup > > the > > > first time. LOL > > > > > > I did ask Babaji and he mentioned that without > > doing > > > the utkilana rituals > > > and a Guru's grace one can never attain sadhana, > I > > > already saw Shiva and > > > Vishnu as my gurus and Devi thus gave me this > > boon, > > > I haven't opened my > > > Kundalini if I did I would be doing tapas right > > now. > > > I am honoured that you can think so highly of > me, > > > but to tell you the truth > > > all my attempts were pathetic. I never liked > > tantra > > > and am still not really > > > fond of it since I don't understand it much, > there > > > isn't any rajasic or > > > tamasic ritual that I do; the only things > > partially > > > tamasic is the bali of > > > coconut, lime and white vinegar instead of > > alcohol. > > > But like I said Asuri > > > Sadhana isn't all that good however there are > > > exceptions like for instance > > > the worship of Dakini, she is rajasic in nature > > but > > > that doesn't mean you go > > > around slaughtering animals and offering your > > blood. > > > > > > I am dead against Animal Sacrifice and the only > > > rajasic offerings that I can > > > cite is one's own blood and rum but even then I > > > personally don't do that. > > > Let me put it this way the way one worships Lord > > > Vishnu should be the way > > > one worships all Gods and Goddesses and a purely > > > satvic way and mostly > > > mental. The only bali that Gods crave is of your > > > animal instincts and your > > > ahamkara. > > > > > > Chamundi is usually associated as a blood > > consuming > > > form of Durga, but she > > > is just the destroyer of your bad senses, Kali > is > > > all consuming she burns > > > and consumes your bad karma. There is a esoteric > > > side to these rituals and > > > the higher you go the less physical rituals you > > > shall do, it is just a means > > > of focusing, a form of visualisation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > > now. > > http://mailplus. > > > > > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > now. > http://mailplus. > === message truncated === ===== Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2002 Report Share Posted December 12, 2002 dear sujata , namaskar! yes! indeed! in the sanskrit language , the same word can have multiple meanings depending on the context and the way it is spelled or uttered ! you must have heard of sandhi-vicched! the grammatical practice of splitting words... the ordinary meaning of the word 'mamsa' is meat-that! but thee esoteric meaning of the word as used by tantric practioner is different mamsa refers to the*tongue* -the spiritual practice of controlling one's speech ! so, may be the esoteric interpretation of the sree lalita sahasaranama verse may be.... one who controls his/her speech that devotee is very dear to me!!! noW, WE ALL KNOW TONGUE COMMITS MANY SINS KNOWINGLY OR UNKNOWINGLY- meat eating is only one of the many sins the tongue commits... is it not? ( well, i am a vegetarian thru and thru - please meat eaters, forgive me for saying this... ) but the tongue commits many other sins... 1) back biting 2) bad mouthing 3) cursing 4) indulging in flattery to gain some ends 5) gossiping 6) deliberately 'lieing' 7) and above all talking about non-divine subjects... this list is by no means exhaustive or limited to the above- mentioned... so, all sadhakas are expected to always 'speak the truth' - not only that -" speak the truth' that is pleasant to hear... satyam vada ; priyam satyam vada... so, in my humble opinion devi lalita is requesting us to control our tongue! now, krishnamurthy sir, please correct me if i am wrong... as far as lord krishna is concerned, he is very easy to please - he loves butter and sweets ! so if you offer these to HIM with love and devotion, he will accept it ! he is not asking for any big 'sacrifices''' in faxct, in the srimad bhagwat gita, he says anyone who offers to me a leaf, a fruit, a flower, or water i will gladly accept!!! but all lord krishna wants is 'surrender' ! yes! Bali! bali of what!!! i love what you had to say on this! sujataji, you state ... ****. reg. bali i think She wants the bali of all our vices and not animals.**** excellent point ! in this context, let me narrate the story of sri vishnu's 'vamana' avatar..! This is the story of king Bali! , , the ruler of Paataala (the netherworld), who had extended his kingdom over the earth. Sri Vishnu, in his Vaaman avatar, approached king Bali, for a boon of space equal to his three steps. Bali, known for his charity, gladly granted the boon. Vaamana now grew into a gigantic form; with one step he covered the entire earth, with the second he covered the outer sky, and asked Bali where he should keep his third step. Bali, left with no other choice, showed his own head. Sri Vishnu placed his foot on Bali's head and pushed him down to the netherworld, the rightful territory of Bali's reign. what is the meaning of this? the message it conveys is that king bali had grown arrogant because of possessing all the kingdoms and became a Terror! and by placing His lotus feet on the head of king bali , lord vishnu instaneously crushed bali's 'ahamkar" (ego) and demonstrated to king bali that with three steps . the lord was able to conquer the entire universe/! so, king bali realized that to reach the lotus feet of lord vishnu, all he needed to sacrifice was his 'ego' or mamata ( mineness) - the head represents the ego! as weall know bali means sacrifice and by bowing the head down to the lord , king bali made the biggest sacrifice... as far as goddess kali is concerned , we are told she loves 'blood' and animal sacrifices... in this context, iit is always mentioned that the goddessc kali's tongue grew larger and larger because every time she drank the demon raktabija's blood, another demon would appear ! but the metaphysical meaning is - that human desires are many and everytime one desire is satisfied another desrire crops up! so the goddess is sending us a powerful message that 'control your desires' or the divine mother is asking to 'renunciate' worldly desires or possessions! that is the 'bali' or 'tyaga' or sacrifice our divine mother is asking us!!! In vedic times, animal sacrifices were performed - and in dakshineshwer temple in calcutta also DURING DURGA PUJA, GOATS are slaughtered at the altar of mother kali (ma bhavatarini) ! the sacrice of goat's head is symbolic - and nowadays, more and more temples are accepting 'pumpkins' and 'coconuts in lieu of goats heads! with maneka gandhi's powerful crusade against 'cruelty to animals' i am sure this practice will be discontinued totally! My gurudeva always told me the best way to please mother kali is to sacrifice one's 'ego' and cry to her with yearning and longing 'Ma ! ma! ma' ... that is what the divine mother wants -total surrender ! this is true of all gods/godesses... lord shiva is pleased with milk abisekham and bilva leaves! lord vishnu is fond of ornamentation and alankar (means grand clothes, jewels etc) mother kali is fond of kadamba flowers and sweet rice! lord ganesha is fond of 'modakam' (a sweet preperation... so the list goes.... so, sujata ji and dakinic monk- i am in total agreement with your interpretation.! killing is bad karma ! be it animals or humans! love ! .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 Allow me to explain, Kalika devi is all accepting people offer her things from flowers to faeces; the offering of masa, blood and animal sacrifice is given to most deities even Lord Brahma the creator receives Bali. But like I said this is asuri sadhana and should not be done unless you can place the pahu's atma in a higher womb. According to lore Devi Jvalamukhi or Jvalaji as she is commonly called received bali of human beings later she appeared as apparition and described the significance of Bali since it isn't that ritualistic more meditative; but she said the coconut is best since no pain is felt. We want to offer things that a flawless, coconut has the essence of Vishnu the perfect man hence we offer Bali of this essence; however through meditation one should only offer their animal instincts. Another note Lalita Shahasranama has multiple esoteric meanings. The darkest forms of Kalika require the Bali of the sadhaka, hence the blood but there is nothing more. Babaji is against the whole concept hence I wouldn't advise it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 Well Greetings to you adi_shakthi16. Welcome back once again. NOW, WE ALL KNOW TONGUE COMMITS MANY SINS KNOWINGLY OR UNKNOWINGLY- meat eating is only one of the many sins the tongue commits... is it not? ( well, i am a vegetarian thru and thru - please meat eaters, forgive me for saying this... ) but the tongue commits many other sins... 1) back biting 2) bad mouthing 3) cursing 4) indulging in flattery to gain some ends 5) gossiping 6) deliberately 'lieing' 7) and above all talking about non-divine subjects... so, all sadhakas are expected to always 'speak the truth' - not only that -" speak the truth' that is pleasant to hear... I am happy you mention this. Thank you. "so, in my humble opinion devi lalita is requesting us to control our tongue! " Not only our tongue but our thoughts or rather our mind. The tongue is control by our other senses. It's the mind that control the tongue. Lalitha said : let your mind be like the sugarcane, it is through the mind that we all experience joy. The mind is the instrument by which the sense organs are `shot' towards the sense-objects. Hence it is described as a bow. The arrows are the panca-tanmatras, the five subtle elements of akasa. The sense organs like the eye and the ear, are products of these subtle elements and are discharged like arrows, through the mind, towards the sense objects. Hence the subtle elements are described as the arrows in her hand. She is the power that energises and controls our minds and sense organs. If our mind is good and sweet like a sugarcane, then it is good, and all the other including us enjoy it if it is not thrown away. When a cane is not sweet it is used as a stick or sometimes also as a bow and a bow as we know discharges arrow. Since it is said that the cane is the mind and here in this case it is not a sweet one so it is being used to discharge arrows. So a mind which is not sweet will be like a cane converted into bow which will give out arrows of hatred. All our senses are rule by the panca-tanmatras. When we discharge arrows of hatred violence and all other things that will result in an imbalance of the elements and the very nature of our existence. Hence the subtle elements are described as the arrows in her hand. She is the power that energies and control our minds and sense organs. Her hand symbolizes our conscience which should be in turn in control of our mind, which should be in control of our soul. Our thinking is the power. She is the power that energises and controls our minds and sense organs "as far as lord krishna is concerned, he is very easy to please - he loves butter and sweets ! so if you offer these to HIM with love and devotion, he will accept it ! he is not asking for any big 'sacrifices'''" DEVI too is very easy to please. Even if you don't have anything to offer to her, a daily thoughts, praises of words and doing good to others, is enough. Sadhana to DEVI is not just in the pooja room. My gurudeva always told me the best way to please mother kali is to sacrifice one's 'ego' and cry to her with yearning and longing 'Ma ! ma! ma' ... that is what the divine mother wants -total surrender ! Agreed. Jai Gurudeva ! Om Adi Shakti, Om Maha Shakti, Om Para Shakti Om Shakti Om Shakti Om Shakti Ommmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 dear friend..... namasthe!!! i do agree that in lalitha sahasram there is a phrase " mamsa predhayi namaha " . that phrase does not literally mean that u offer meat and flesh to goddess. there is another phrase in lalitha sahasram ksheeranna predayi namaha and guddanna predhayi namaha... meaning that u can offer anything to goddess.that anything means the one which u cook in the home... lalitha amma never wants something specially cooked for her . she is just like one of ur family members . she eats what ever u offer her and does not ask u to make special dishes for her unlike some of the family members who sometimes ask u to make so and so dish today...and this uis the significance of mamsa preedayi namaha.. my guruvu garu has once told me the significance of the name "lalita". but u can better understand this if u r a telugu lady.in telugu we call mother amma.. though it is a sweet word but still because it has the ma vatthu we sought out for another word equivalent in meaning which is more soft in pronounciation.we came across another word thalli... this also has la vatthu in it. but is simple compared to ma vathu as ma is a anunasikam.the same talli when we reverse it and reduce the "la vathu" to aksharam we get what is lalitha.... i could not think of better explanation for this!! wishing u the blessings of goddess!!! sincerely yours ... shyam sunder kasturi ---------------------- Bolt. Everything you need to speak your mind, hang out, hook up ... whatever. Tagbooks ™, Bolt Notes ™, message boards, personality quizzes, photos, free stuff and lots more! http://www.bolt.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 Dear Friends, All deities are very accepting, you guys fail to see that the Goddesses do in fact accept these offerings; yes there are different contexts and interpretations to this but remember, Bala is of the Dasha Mahavidyas the most hideous forms of the Devi the complete negativity personified. I will tell you a little legend that is true to its last detail: In the ancient city of Calcutta (Bangadesha) people became extremely hedonistic and due to this Devi came to Purge them. This City is the realm of Kalika and she can only tolerate so much, hence she took the form of Maha Mari (great Death) and came to the streets of Old Banga. She was hideously black and any house she passed infants would instantly die, all grain would turn black in colour. She was so fierce that people died of fright just be looking at her. This is when people decided to give Bali to goddess to pacify her, the “life for a life theory” hence she was regarded as the great death AKA Maha Mari. You see, it is only the Bali of one who is willing that you must offer of a being which you can release from bondage by placing it in a higher womb. Devi and even lord Vishnu is accepting of this however… this like I said is asuri in nature and thus leads to chaos. Bala is accepting of Bali daan, yes true tantrics see this as bali of ahamkara (pride) not ego, ego is an identity that you relate to if you kill this then you are killing your self there is a transformation of your ego once your ahamkara is killed. However this doesn’t mean that you disregard this ancient practice. Only those who have reached one of the highest levels can offer Bali of Pashu and in this case it isn’t to please a deity but to release something from bondage. Many tantras speak of the offering of wine and meat and in panchamakara this is mandatory; panchamakara is one of the most powerful asuri rituals so much so infact that it can cause demi gods to come under your control, the highest to some degree is khanda manda yoga which is basically cutting of one’s limbs and offering them into homa. This sadhana is the last an aghori does and is very powerful. Of course people who practice this have to take agni samadhi and then come back again to really reap the fruits, this is very painful however it is quick. The analogy is if you want someone’s attention then you punch them rather coaxing them; aggression is repaid with aggression, chaos with chaos and love with love, hypocrisy with hypocrisy and maya with maya. Bali is essential, we usually tend to offer coconut, lime, your own blood these things are expectable but even then to a certain degree there is karma involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 Season's greetings to you nora and our shakta family here! yes, it is nice to come home to devi and her bhaktas... wow! 595 members! that is fabulous ! well, nora as you will notice i was only focusing on the explanation of that one verse "mamsa preedhayi namaha" but i do appreciate your taking the discussion to the next level; especaially explaining the devi's weapomns of sugarcane and arrows in this divine fashion! yes, one cannot ignore the interconnection between indriyas (sense organs) and manas (the mind) the indriyas are classified into karmendriyas and jnanedriyas... all acts done by the body are karmenriyas- the eyes, the ear, skin, nose and tongue and with each of these karmendriyas , there are the corresponding jnaendriyas... so we associate the sense of smell with NOSE the sense of taste with tongue the sense of hearing with ears the sense of touch with the skin the sense of sight with the eyes!!! That is why jnanis always say that the ten headed demon Ravana is not the king residing in the majestic palace in sri lanka but the ten headedd demon are the 'dashaindriyas' residing in the human body--- so, nora, yopu are absolutely correct! It is all in the mind! if one can control the mind , one can control the sense organs as well... it is the janedriyas that help us to use the power of discrimination what is called 'viveka' - to differentiate between what is good and what is bad , what is wrong or what is right, what is pure or what is impure so on and so forth! DID YOU KNOW THAT 'buddhi' resides in the Tongue AND NOT IN THE MANAS? AND AHAMKARAM OR EGO RESIDES IN THE HEART? believe me, these two are the causes for most of our miseries an uncontrolled tongue and an uncontrolled ego? that is why in the icon of chinnamasta, one sees the goddess holding her own decapitated head in her hand! that is why it is recomemnded we eat sattwic food ! not only that, tongue is used not only for the food we eat! it is also used for speaking in a sattwic language ... so it is all about "words" and "word power" - that is why it is said 'buddhi' resides in the tongue !! as long as 'You' exist, all these feelings exist - and the moment the 'you' disappeears, and 'you' know 'you' are not the 'body' but the 'atma, then we are in the blissful state of sat-chit-ananda! devi lalita herself says in verse 898... OM VIRA-GOSTHI PRIYAYAII NAMAHA salutations to HER who is fond of the assembly of the devotees of the "heroic" mode of worship. HEROIC (DIVYA) IN TANTRA CORRESPONDS TO SATTWA guna IN ADVAITA... we therfore are all in agreement that it is the 'animal' instincts one needs to control - the three Vs- the vasanas (the five karmendriyas) the vrittis (anger, jealousy, greed, laziness etc) and the vichara ( thoughts associated with the indriyas) ... Folks, it is easy to please the godess because as the devimahatmiyam and sree lalita sahasaranam says - she is contenment herself!!! twam pushtihi! om sree matrayaii namaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 According to Cologne Digital Sanskrit Lexicon , mAmsa means not only meat and flesh , but it is "also said of the fleshy part or pulp of fruit" "adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16 wrote:dear sujata , namaskar! yes! indeed! in the sanskrit language , the same word can have multiple meanings depending on the context and the way it is spelled or uttered ! you must have heard of sandhi-vicched! the grammatical practice of splitting words... the ordinary meaning of the word 'mamsa' is meat-that! but thee esoteric meaning of the word as used by tantric practioner is different mamsa refers to the*tongue* -the spiritual practice of controlling one's speech ! so, may be the esoteric interpretation of the sree lalita sahasaranama verse may be.... one who controls his/her speech that devotee is very dear to me!!! noW, WE ALL KNOW TONGUE COMMITS MANY SINS KNOWINGLY OR UNKNOWINGLY- meat eating is only one of the many sins the tongue commits... is it not? ( well, i am a vegetarian thru and thru - please meat eaters, forgive me for saying this... ) but the tongue commits many other sins... 1) back biting 2) bad mouthing 3) cursing 4) indulging in flattery to gain some ends 5) gossiping 6) deliberately 'lieing' 7) and above all talking about non-divine subjects... this list is by no means exhaustive or limited to the above- mentioned... so, all sadhakas are expected to always 'speak the truth' - not only that -" speak the truth' that is pleasant to hear... satyam vada ; priyam satyam vada... so, in my humble opinion devi lalita is requesting us to control our tongue! now, krishnamurthy sir, please correct me if i am wrong... as far as lord krishna is concerned, he is very easy to please - he loves butter and sweets ! so if you offer these to HIM with love and devotion, he will accept it ! he is not asking for any big 'sacrifices''' in faxct, in the srimad bhagwat gita, he says anyone who offers to me a leaf, a fruit, a flower, or water i will gladly accept!!! but all lord krishna wants is 'surrender' ! yes! Bali! bali of what!!! i love what you had to say on this! sujataji, you state ... ****. reg. bali i think She wants the bali of all our vices and not animals.**** excellent point ! in this context, let me narrate the story of sri vishnu's 'vamana' avatar..! This is the story of king Bali! , , the ruler of Paataala (the netherworld), who had extended his kingdom over the earth. Sri Vishnu, in his Vaaman avatar, approached king Bali, for a boon of space equal to his three steps. Bali, known for his charity, gladly granted the boon. Vaamana now grew into a gigantic form; with one step he covered the entire earth, with the second he covered the outer sky, and asked Bali where he should keep his third step. Bali, left with no other choice, showed his own head. Sri Vishnu placed his foot on Bali's head and pushed him down to the netherworld, the rightful territory of Bali's reign. what is the meaning of this? the message it conveys is that king bali had grown arrogant because of possessing all the kingdoms and became a Terror! and by placing His lotus feet on the head of king bali , lord vishnu instaneously crushed bali's 'ahamkar" (ego) and demonstrated to king bali that with three steps . the lord was able to conquer the entire universe/! so, king bali realized that to reach the lotus feet of lord vishnu, all he needed to sacrifice was his 'ego' or mamata ( mineness) - the head represents the ego! as weall know bali means sacrifice and by bowing the head down to the lord , king bali made the biggest sacrifice... as far as goddess kali is concerned , we are told she loves 'blood' and animal sacrifices... in this context, iit is always mentioned that the goddessc kali's tongue grew larger and larger because every time she drank the demon raktabija's blood, another demon would appear ! but the metaphysical meaning is - that human desires are many and everytime one desire is satisfied another desrire crops up! so the goddess is sending us a powerful message that 'control your desires' or the divine mother is asking to 'renunciate' worldly desires or possessions! that is the 'bali' or 'tyaga' or sacrifice our divine mother is asking us!!! In vedic times, animal sacrifices were performed - and in dakshineshwer temple in calcutta also DURING DURGA PUJA, GOATS are slaughtered at the altar of mother kali (ma bhavatarini) ! the sacrice of goat's head is symbolic - and nowadays, more and more temples are accepting 'pumpkins' and 'coconuts in lieu of goats heads! with maneka gandhi's powerful crusade against 'cruelty to animals' i am sure this practice will be discontinued totally! My gurudeva always told me the best way to please mother kali is to sacrifice one's 'ego' and cry to her with yearning and longing 'Ma ! ma! ma' ... that is what the divine mother wants -total surrender ! this is true of all gods/godesses... lord shiva is pleased with milk abisekham and bilva leaves! lord vishnu is fond of ornamentation and alankar (means grand clothes, jewels etc) mother kali is fond of kadamba flowers and sweet rice! lord ganesha is fond of 'modakam' (a sweet preperation... so the list goes.... so, sujata ji and dakinic monk- i am in total agreement with your interpretation.! killing is bad karma ! be it animals or humans! love ! .. Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 namaskar dakinic monk, i do not think the issue is about what godess accepts ! it is about what we devotees want to offer to her! goddess is easy to please ! she will accept anything offered with love and devotion... Nara bali - or sacrifice of the humans is the 'supreme' sacrifice but does it mean we should all jump into the fire and offer ourselves to the goddess? what the goddesss really wants from us to burn the 'ego' (the ahmakara as represented by the human head) in the fire pit of Her 'consciousness' (chit-agni-kunda) you have mentioned about goddess 'maha mari ' - maha mari is the name for 'small pox' - do youu know that small pox has been eradicated in the world as per WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION? ( of course notwithstanding the bio- terrorist attack) i would encourage you to read nora's posts on mariamman (archives) in this regard where she has explained that it is wrong to classify the mariamman goddess as a 'wrathful' goddess... there are legends and legends... and thank goddess! they are legends only! iT IS ALL UPTO THE DEVOTEES WHICH 'ENERGY' OF KALI WE WANT TO WORSHIP FOR THE DIVINE MOTHER IS WORSHIPPABLE IN ALL HER ASPECTS BOTH BENEVELENT AND MALEVELENT... if you would like to increase your 'warrior' energy, worship 'durga' mata ... if you want to fight the 'terrible mother' syndrome within you, worship 'kali's" destructivev aspects.. if you want to invoke the 'loving' mother in you, worship the loving and compassionate kali... so the 'asura' is within us and the 'asuri' sampat is also within us and not in the imagery of the divine mother ... so, kali is not a 'terrible' goddess ! it is our negative feelings we are projecting on to her imagery... kali is about celebrating the entire existence- all phases of the cosmic cycle... she is the eternal 'birth' giving female... she is also identified with death and destruction in the cosmic cycle but with the hope of rebirth... KALI'S SWORD IS TO BE USED TO SLAY THE POWERFUL DEMONS WITHIN US and that is the best offering you and i together can make to the divine mother! chanda and munda are not demons outside of us raktabija is within us mahissur is an internal demon shumbha and nishumbha are active in our body... that is what we should use kali's sword to slay and not some innocent goats ! this is the 'pashu' vritti we need to conquer!! btw, dakinik monk -you are talking about 'blood' sacrifice all the time! may i ask you one thing - the blood sacrifice that tantriks talk about are ' the menstrual' blood that is offered to goddess kali for she is the creatrx, nurteror and sustainer of the universe? any thoughts on this practice, my friend? thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 Respected Shankarji, i finished reciting sree Lalita Sahasaranama this Friday evening... but to be quite honest with you, i did not find any reference whsatsoever to this nama " mamsa preedhayi namaha" you state in your post... " The word "mamsa preedhayi namaha" as per greatest of treasures lalitha saharsarnama cannot be wrong." well, i just did not find any reference to the above mentioned 'mamsa' am i missing something? however, i did find the following ... om payasa anna-priyayai namaha salutations to her who likes offerings of payasa (milk pudding) om dadhyanna sakta hridasyayai namaha salutation to her who loves to have offerings of curd (yoghurt) om sarvaudana-prita-cintayai namaha salutations to her who loves offerings of all kinds of food. the only thing that came closest to your description is in this nama *om balipriyai* namaha salutations to her who loves the 'sacrifices' of the devotees. well, shankarji- bali is a general word which means sacrifice - it could mean anything from animal to human sacrifices! is this what you were refrring to? you state i would love to believe that god never wants bali but if someone offers a bali she accepts it. well, i always thought of sree lalita as a 'sowmya' devi and therefore always felt that she only likes 'sattwic' offerings... i do know that human and animal sacrifices were made to goddess kali in the past and continues even today . please kindly explain this piece of the puzzle to me... thank you regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 Namaste Shankar! Perhaps you meant: 500. AUM mA.nsa nishhThAyai namaH I bow to She who presides over the flesh in living beings If She PRESIDES over the flesh in living beings, does this mean that She would enjoy its sacrifice also? AUM , "adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16>" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: > Respected Shankarji, > > i finished reciting sree Lalita Sahasaranama this Friday evening... > but to be quite honest with you, i did not find any reference > whsatsoever to this nama " mamsa preedhayi namaha" > > you state in your post... > > " The word "mamsa preedhayi namaha" as per greatest of > treasures lalitha saharsarnama cannot be wrong." > > well, i just did not find any reference to the above > mentioned 'mamsa' am i missing something? > > however, i did find the following ... > > om payasa anna-priyayai namaha > salutations to her who likes offerings of payasa (milk pudding) > > om dadhyanna sakta hridasyayai namaha > salutation to her who loves to have offerings of curd (yoghurt) > > om sarvaudana-prita-cintayai namaha > salutations to her who loves offerings of all kinds of food. > > the only thing that came closest to your description is in this nama > > *om balipriyai* namaha > salutations to her who loves the 'sacrifices' of the devotees. > > well, shankarji- bali is a general word which means sacrifice - it > could mean anything from animal to human sacrifices! > > is this what you were refrring to? > > you state > > i would love to believe that god never wants bali but if > someone offers a bali she accepts it. > > well, i always thought of sree lalita as a 'sowmya' devi and > therefore always felt that she only likes 'sattwic' offerings... > > i do know that human and animal sacrifices were made to goddess kali > in the past and continues even today . > > please kindly explain this piece of the puzzle to me... > > thank you > > regar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 thank you siva! i missed that one! i have been told that there are multiple meanings for the word 'mamsa ' mamsa means 'pride' and 'mamsa' also means 'meat' among other things... that devi is 'gunatita' she is beyond all gunas- sattwa, rajas and tamas - so she enjoys all kinds of offerings -Honey, sweet rice, curd, fruits, flowers , meat and other sacrifices... and nistha means one who thrives... so i owe an apology to shankar ! he was right ! he is right! only thing is he did not quote the verse right... also mamsa mean 'pride' - so devi is called 'mahamaya' one who thrives on 'pride' in the ultimate analysis, it is not for us to question devi's ways - whether she likes meat offerings or not! all we can do is to offer whatever we can . whenever we can and however we can and whichever way we can! everything in the bhava of love, surrender and devotion! shankarji, i stand corrected! something told me you cannot be wrong! love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 Dear adi Shakti; Maha Mari is commonly called small pox but in the ancient world there was a similar anthro family virus which was called Maha Mari. Maha Mari and Mariamman are the one and the same however Mariamman is the goddess associated with small pox not Maha Mari. What you are talking about is yoni abhyasa and that is hardcore aghora siddhanta; yoni shukra is offered this is a mixture of the female semen, menstrual blood and male semen all mixed. This offering is to Dakinishwari Kalika the most ugra of Kali she goes beyond ucchista chandalini and is said to be the extreme of all disgust. The blood offering I am talking about is of passion; I see that none of you got that. Yes there is also physical blood offering that is a milder form of asuri siddhanta and that is when one cuts their left pinky and offers blood from that, as a trickle on the Kalika Yantra however the blood, the sadhaka have to be purified plus the rituals involved in offering blood causes immense pain. Once blood is spilled on a Kali yantra via the correct method for months the Sadhak will suffer tremendous pain, mental, physical and social pain. This is because you have made request to mother Kali to burn away your karma through your blood. Your DNA is affected by your ancestors that is why pitra tarpan is so important, if one of your ancestors was a Lech and he/she wasn't satiated at the death bed and was thinking of it you too will inherit this trait. When you worship Devi Kali like this you are editing your DNA that is why your whole physical and mental state will completely change. The offering of blood is a concept many don't master and just go around cutting themselves and pouring blood on some statue at best you are defiling and object made to represent Devi. That is the whole reason why many suffer who do these kinds of rituals. Since most people who practice this are villagers, some tend to only stick to what their teachers teach them and during generations some tend to forget about the esoteric meanings and become inaccurate in teaching or passing the knowledge, thus they suffer the repercussions, all forms of chaos, poverty, sickness, malice the whole works. The only bali offering I personally use in rituals are white vinegar, lime, coconut and a effigy of a human being which is inspired by the vital airs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 dear dakinic monk, thank you so much for the wealth of information you have provided in your well-wriiten post. in the Duga saptshati, She HERSELF IS MaRI AND MAHA MARI. sHE IS THE DEITY associated with measles, chicken pox and small pox. but in my tamil language, this disease is called 'ammai' which means 'mother' and hence she is called Mariamman. these diseases are generally believed to be caused because of the 'wrath' of devi,,, BUT I NEVER COULD FIGURE THAT OUT! why would the divine mother who loves children would take away the life of the children? that is one of the divine mysteries ! Prayers are offered to the mariamman deity to appease her and a garland of lemon fruits are part of the offerings... LEMONS HAVE a cooling effect and it is believed that such offerings might cool off devi's anger... i would encourage members to read nora's post on neem trees and leaves - the 'neem' leaves and its powder are applied on the sores on those afflicted with chicken pox and measles viruses... (small pox is no longer a threat as it has been eradicated all over the world except in the event of a bio-terrorist attacl) .. again, i would like members to visit the 'photo gallery of shakti sadhana web page where our nora has posted some beautiful pictures of mariamman... she is also known as shitala devi- please refer to nora's posts on this subject.. mariamman, karumari amman, periachi amman are very popular deities in south india and there are many temples honoring these deities- in fact, i madras thee is an 'amman' kovil and 'pillayar' (ganesha kovil in every nook and corner... malaysia is also known for many such temples... (specially amman) the 'maa vilakku' (lamps made out of rice flour, butter etc) are offered to the devi ! ********************************************************************** your information on offering 'menstrual blood, semen' etc is absolutely correct... in fact of all the tantras, yoni tantra is considered the best... in fact, it is believed that along with semen, menstrual blood, sandalwood paste is also applied on the forehead ... this is in 3rd and 7th patala of yoni tantra... but you say... "ucchista chandalini and is said > to be the extreme of all disgust." this part i do not understand - what are you referring to as 'disgust' please clarify! in tantra, nothing is considered as unholy or disgusting including urine, semen, menstrual blood etc... and as far as DEBI is considered, all her forms are 'lovable' " the blood offering I am talking about is of passion;" this statement i love! yes, dear one! that is what DEVI WANTS PASSION AND INTENSITY OF BHAKTI! not our blood , not anything else! pure bhakti! pure unalloyed devotion! so to talk about all these offerings ( whether it should be meat or rice or animal or human sacrifices ) etc is only of academic interest... in some bhagvathy temples in kerala chicken is offered along with rice.. (kochuji may know more about this... ) .. our divine mother lalita is dakini, rakini, lakini, hakini and everything ... she resides in the 7 chakras- she resides in the chakras below the muladhara also - in vitala, atala etc... she is also klim - the kamaraja bija she is also hrim- the pranava bija so, let us salute the divine mother in all her divine manifestations! thank you , kalika putra for your insights... love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.