Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hello and Happy New Year! I am happy to be a new member as of this year! I wanted to introduce myself, share some interests, and invite replies. I was raised Catholic, but do not call myself a member of any religion. I'm originally from Cleveland Ohio but now live in southern California. I became interested in Shaktism recently as I've delved into the Siddha Yoga Meditation tradition and become uncomfortable with Om Namah Shivaya as truly being inclusive of the feminine or female. To me, the Siddha tradition itself has a lot of sex role stereotyping and just doesn't seem to recognize the value of the feminine or female unto itself. When I mentioned my concerns in a meditation workshop a couple weekends ago, I was given a mantra that invokes Chandika. I have also recently read a book called Passionate Enlightenment: Women in Tantric Buddhism, and it provided a lot of wonderful and useful information, including making mentions of Shaktism and Shaivism in ways that have encouraged my spiritual enrichment. That book is by Miranda Shaw, and I highly recommend it. I look forward to partaking in your discussions. Om Namas Chandikaye, Mary Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Greetings Mary, With that bold entrance into S.S., you have entered into a new spiritual world of unfathomable dimensions where DEVI is the only limit! You have come to the right place to expand your knowledge of Shaktism. I have lost count of the many informative posts I'd read from S.S.'s many faithfuls. btw, could you verify that the Siddha Yoga tradition you referred to in your introduction is that same one founded by Swami Muktananda? If so, I am surprised to hear your complaint about the relative lack of feminine representation. AFAIK, Siddha Yoga is influenced strongly by the richly Shaktic Kashmir Shaivism tradition. Have there been some recent policy changes over at SY? Cheers. Om Namah Sivaya <oops> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hi: Thanks for the reply. (BTW it's Mary Ann, not Mary.) Since I am relatively new to Siddha, I am not sure if there have been policy changes. However, my impression of Swami Muktanda through his book Where Are You Going? is that despite his love of the Goddess, he's still fairly traditional in terms of calling God "He," while referring to the feminine aspects of energy as "it," more often than "She," and traditional also in his views on sexuality. I have heard of anti - sexuality statements he made (specifically, anti -homosexual & anti - lesbian statements and acts), and I've heard about dishonesty regarding sexuality between gurus and students. In the Siddha Center here in Los Angeles (and I have been told it's traditional, not just local) there is a definite split between the men and women. Women are to wear traditional garb in the Temple, and they have different parts to chant in group chants. I've also noticed a lot more men playing certain instruments in the band than women. I play guitar, and offered to participate on a volunteer basis. I was told instead to learn all the chants so I could sing. I've noticed only men playing stringed instruments in this group. I think patriarchal heterosexist social tendencies are alive and well in Siddha as anywhere else. I gravitated there because of its connection to Kasmir Shaivism, and I'm finding it helpful to research Shaivism rather than to go deeper into the Siddha tradition itself (which I believe was begun by Swami Nityananda who commanded Muktananda to come to the West). And what really led me there was John Friend and Anusara Yoga, which I love. Now Gurumayi is the head of the Siddha lineage, and she has some great words to offer, however, in some ways, she is still unquestioningly accepting and/or advocating He over She. Om Namas Chandikaye, Mary Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Dear Mary Ann How happy I am today to see you posting in the message board. Thank you for taking the time to introduce yourself to us. I see that you have meet Gene. Im glad you did. "I have also recently read a book called Passionate Enlightenment: Women in Tantric Buddhism, and it provided a lot of wonderful and useful information, including making mentions of Shaktism and Shaivism" Thank you, I will take try to find for this book. "I look forward to partaking in your discussions" Please do, I look forward to hear more from you too. We are all here like one big happy family. We quarrel, tell jokes, tease each other, drive each other nuts, but hey! isnt that is what life is all about. Om ParaShaktiye Namaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Hi Mary Ann, Thanks for sharing your fascinating perspective of the Siddha Yoga tradition. I must say I am surprised by this apparent SY bias towards patriarchalism. While I am not a SY member, I have read a couple of Swami Muktananda's books (not 'Where Are You Going?' though), and the glowing terms in which he spoke of Parashakti/DEVI gave the impression that the SY tradition was perhaps comparatively less patriarchal in its attitudes than some of its contemporaries. Then again, I do faintly remember a Muktananda-devotee who claimed on another Group that his master was as much a devotee of Vishnu-Krishna as he was of Lord Shiva. The former being the icon of the decidedly patriarchal Vaishnavist traditions, perhaps some of its influences indeed rubbed off on Muktananda..? In contrast, another western offshoot of Kashmir Shaivism headed by Daniel Odier in France is decidedly, nay, *extremely* pro-Shakti and pro-women; if his writings are anything to go by. Maybe there is truth in the claim that the cornerstone discourse of a sect derives greatly from the personal inclinations and convictions of its founder. I applaud your decision to closely investigate the Shaivist teachings before committing yourself fully to any shaivist organisation out there on the market. In this age where charlatans and poseurs mingle amongst the real gurus out there, it is always good to do one's "homework" beforehand! I also hope you will eventually find a spiritual organization which allows you full play of your musical inclinations. Cheers. Om namah Sivaya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 mary ann! greetings! welcome aboard! you state in your post... " However, my impression of Swami Muktanda through his book Where Are You Going? is that despite his love of the Goddess, he's still fairly traditional in terms of calling God "He," while referring to the feminine aspects of energy as "it," more > often than "She," and traditional also in his views on sexuality. I have heard of anti - sexuality statements he made (specifically, anti -homosexual & anti - lesbian statements and acts), and I've heard about dishonesty regarding sexuality between gurus and > students. " dear one, i was s member of the siddha yoga foundation for more than two years... i have attended gurumayi's retreats in new york... of course, you are right - there is 'segregation' but this is nothing unusual in the indian context - women sit together and men sit together!but i am sorry to learn about women not being encouraged to play guitar! i do not know about swami muktananda's anti-gay views but i do know all yogis advocate 'celibacy' across the board ! the catholic church is also against homo-sexuality! does it mean we condemn the whole institution because of that? also, i do not think 'shaktism' about being pro-gay ? or am i missing something? as far as sexual abuses between gurus and students are concerned - it may be true but are they really 'gurus' to begin with? the ultimate reality is 'genderless' neither he, she or it! it is a state of bliss - sat-chit-ananda! shaktism, shaivism all *isms* only! there is only one ism and that is this 'truism' - Patha are many'; Ruth is ONE! TAKE CARE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 i was s member of the siddha yoga foundation for more than > two years... i have attended gurumayi's retreats in new york... of > course, you are right - there is 'segregation' but this is nothing > unusual in the indian context - women sit together and men sit > together! > Segregation, or "separate but equal" policies, were was used to support bias against black people becoming full citizens in our country. In our country (and I'm sure in yours), women still are not viewed as full people unto themselves without men. the catholic church > is also against homo-sexuality! does it mean we condemn the whole > institution because of that? The catholic church condemns homosexuals, not the other way around. However, any church or belief system that condemns or punishes loving behavior between adults only injures itself. It's like attacking oneself to attack what one does not understand in another. As Ammachi says, don't become angry with a person because that person is you. Each person is Atman. > the ultimate reality is 'genderless' neither he, she or it! it is a > state of bliss - sat-chit-ananda! This may be so, yet we are born in our bodies and into this world, and to live true inner and outer, we must fully embrace our complete selves without fear or judgment. Since the concepts of Shakti and Shiva are just that, concepts, then neither of those concepts objects to homosexuality; only people attached to dualism object to the full range of freedom of expression in loving. Does Shaktism advocate heterosexuality? > Patha are many'; Ruth is ONE! What does this mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 thank you dear one for your well-rounded response! so, you have met 'ammachi? that is very interesting! i met ammachi for the second time past summer when she visited washington! meeting her was quite an experience... yes, we must be allowed the full range of expression in loving - i like that statement! i do not know whether any religion allows this or that? hetro sexuality or homo-sexuality? i think we humans interpret these ! and in any case, sexuality like religion is totally a 'personal' thing! excuse me for the typo; still recovering from laser eye surgery! it should read Paths are Many ; Truth is one! but let me ask you this- why this obsession with god as a female? just wondering? is this a statement against christianity? love and thanx for your response! i hope i did not offend you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Hi: > so, you have met 'ammachi? that is very interesting! i met ammachi > for the second time past summer when she visited washington! meeting > her was quite an experience... > Would you like to share your experience of meeting Ammachi? I'd like to hear about it. I haven't met Ammachi yet, but want to. She's not due back in my area until June or so. Been reading Awaken Children, Vol. 1. > i do not know whether any religion allows this or that? hetro > sexuality or homo-sexuality? i think we humans interpret these ! and > in any case, sexuality like religion is totally a 'personal' thing! I have found and/or felt that most religions and social structures definitely condone certain sexual behaviors and condemn others. I'm of the notion that the "personal is political," and that systemwide rules for behavior (mis)shape the individual. I speak from personal experience of this, and yoga and where it leads me is helping me to correct the misalignment(s) I experience, within and without. > excuse me for the typo; still recovering from laser eye surgery! > it should read > Paths are Many ; Truth is one! Oh -- I just thought I didn't know the language! > but let me ask you this- why this obsession with god as a female? > just wondering? is this a statement against christianity? > You do not offend me at all. Thank you for your question, and for calling me "dear one" and sending love. Are you implying that I have an obsession with god as a female? My concern is more that I recognize that the power dynamics of the external world reflect our inner world. As within, so without, and vice versa. Gandhi himself said that he considered his wife and children to be his possessions. This attitude is in American culture, too. It shapes the behavior of women and men, creating certain power dynamics in relationships and family. I consider the notion that a male aspect (Shiva) contains the female is the same thing as Woman being created from Adam's rib, and thus belonging to him. It's "traditional" and limiting. I think allowing each gender to be whole unto itself, to embody consciousness as well as power, without envisioning either of those qualities as male or female, truly moves us away from dualism, whereas assigning specific qualities to specific genders is dualism in action. What do you think of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 yes! mary ann! i met ammachi face to face ! she is indeed the very embodiment of the divine mother! when you have her darshan, you feel immediately the 'divine' vibrations flowing through your veins- she is totally 'awesome' - she is famous for her 'hugs' and the moment she 'hugs' you, you feel like you never want to let go! she has a melodious voice and when she sings , she transports you to another world. i have seen devotees going into a'trance' at the very sight of her. she has the talent for illustrating profound truths in the simplest language so even a layman can understand... mosre importantly, she is engazed in a lot of charitable work... she is running a lot of hospitals and orphanages in her native state of kerala ! if you would like, i can direct you to her web site and i am also a member of a group dedicated to her. i liked the last 'para' in your post very much! that sums up very well your interest in 'shaktism' ! good luck and enjoy your stay here! love and (((((hugs))))) too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2003 Report Share Posted January 4, 2003 dear mary anan, you can read more about amamchi from this web site Ammachi's Life Story: Excerpts from The Path of the Mother - http://www.pathofthemother.com/excerpts3.html hope you will find it useful! if you like you can also visit sree maa's ashram idevi mandir in nap hills , ca! she is great shakta saint from the shri ramkrishna lineage. lots of love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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