Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 it is generally believed that one who worships 'shakti' is a Shakta! but, dear ones those who worship other gods besides the godess 'shakti are also shaktas.? how and why you may ask? well, folks, when you worship Goddess shakti in her various manifestations as Durga, Ambika, Kali, Parvati, Saraswati, Lakshmi etc you are worshipping only SAKTHI, THE SUPREME TRUTH OR PARA- BRAHMAN... BUUT WHEN YOU WORSHIP ALL THESE OTHER GODS SUCH AS 1) SHIVA 2) VISHNU AND ALL HIS INCARNATIONS 3) GANESHA 4) MURUGA etc, you may be **** externally*** worshipping all these gods but in reality , you are internally worshipping their 'shakti"! this is why adi shankara lthough externally he was seen worshipping shiva, vishnu, etrc , internally he was always worshipping 'devi or sakthi! these is because all the deities including Brahma , vishnu,and shiva, vishnu etc derive their 'energy' only from 'shakti' without which they cannot perform their respective tasls of creation,preservation and destruction. this is a little hard for some people to understand but this is true! why is shankar called bhavani -shanlar? why is naraya called lakshmi narayna ? why is krishna called radha-krishna? so, externally i may be worshipping Lord krishna but internally i am always worshipping his shakti, srimati radharani! this is the greatness of shakti worship! and that is why i liked what db had to say to maryann in his closing statement! believe it guys, we are all shalti worshippers! only thing is a rea; 'shakta' worships shakti internally and externally ! and others like me (so called non-shaktas) worship other gods like shiva, krishna, etc externally but internally are only worshipping their respective shaktis- so, whio is to say i am not a shakta? as the famous quote goes-i am part of a kaula dharma which believes in worshipping shiva externally, in satsangat i am singing the praises of vishnu (vaishnav) and at heart a shakta and in these various forms, i roam around! our respected kochu knows what i am talking about! we all know shri ramakrishna paramahamsa is a greatest bhakta of mother kali! is not it? but in his dakshineshwer temple, he performed pujas to all the twelve jyothirlingas of shiva and when in the company of devotess he always sang the praises of lord krishna? figure that one out, guys! in soundarya lahiri , there is a verse which describes the greatness of devi this... Gatas te mancatvam Druhina-Hari-Rudr'esavara-bhrtah Sivah svaccac-chaya-ghatita-kapata-pracchada-patah; Tvadiyanam bhasam prati-phalana-rag'arunataya Sariri srngaro rasa iva drsam dogdhi kutukam. TRANSLATION Thy servitors Brahma, Vishnu, Rudra and Isvara have taken the shape of Thy cot ( i.e. the four legs of the cot ) in order to serve Thee very closely, while Sadashiva has formed himself into Thy bedsheet, reflecting Thy crimson glory in his assumed whiteness, thereby causing amazement to Thee by presenting Himself as the very embodiment of erotic sentiment. so, folks ! one can worship shakti internally and externally! one can worship shakti internally and her consorts externally ! both are shaktas! who is to say who is a superior shakta ? also, shri ramana maharishi (believed t be an incarnation of lord subramanya) worshipped shiva externally but when he attained samadhi . they found a 'sri-chakra' in his loin cloth! how do you explain that, folks? kochuji, please kindly step in and tell me if i am wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 Dearest Adi Shakthi16 This question have been discuss over and over again in this list. DO read them again, if only you can find it or see them, if only you are not busy. Good luck to you !! Om ParaShaktiye Namaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 Just want to add my 2 cents before we shut this one down... I agree with Adi Ma! The way I see it -- EVERYTHING that can be sensed, imagined, thought of, dreamed of and beyond is ALL SHAKTI! You can't worship Brahman. You can't even call it "Brahman" because Brahman is un-nameable. So anything we worship is really the power of Brahman: SHAKTI! AUM , "Nora <ashwini_puralasamy>" <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > Dearest Adi Shakthi16 > > This question have been discuss over and over again in this list. DO > read them again, if only you can find it or see them, if only you are > not busy. Good luck to you !! > > > Om ParaShaktiye N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2003 Report Share Posted January 5, 2003 In a way, it isn't fair to Shiva to worship only his Shakti. Does a woman usually imagine her husband or boyfriend to be Shakti when she makes love to him? Does a man usually imagine he is making love with Shiva when he makes love to his wife or girlfriend? I'm using lovemaking to denote worship because I think it helps to put this issue in perspective. Due to the cultural imbalances I referred to in my earlier posts, (which imbalances include the fact that there are so few people in the world openly worshipping Shakti as Shakti, not as some part of another,) I still feel it is most valuable -- at least to me -- if Shakti isn't just worshipped after the gods get theirs. And what is this about Shakti only being worshipped in the home, after an outward display of worship of gods, as another post mentioned? That's like being "in the closet." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 In a way, it isn't fair to Shiva to worship only his Shakti. Its not a matter of fairness. There are various path but the destination are all the same. Shakta focus on Shakti. Shaivites focus on Shiva. As Shaktas too we do honour Shiva, but we are more incline towards Shakti. We do not deny Shiva at all. If you bring it down to a more practical level : its about a family. There are some of us who are closer to our mothers whilst other to the father. Are they wrong? No. Does a woman usually imagine her husband or boyfriend to be Shakti when she makes love to him? Does a man usually imagine he is making love with Shiva when he makes love to his wife or girlfriend? I'm using lovemaking to denote worship because I think it helps to put this issue in perspective. We do not imagine ourselves making love to Shakti nor to Shiva, and in my personal opinion using lovemaking to denote worship is rather strange. Om ParaShaktiye Namaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 That family analogy is interesting. I have much reading to do to understand the philosophy behind Shakta. I am simply arriving here from where I already am, and wondering how or if Shakta fits my understandings, and/or if my understandings will shift as a result of Shakta. > > We do not imagine ourselves making love to Shakti nor to Shiva, and > in my personal opinion using lovemaking to denote worship is rather > strange. I have felt a question arising in me as to what denotes worship, or what is worship. I thought it a Tantric approach to consider lovemaking as worship in some sense. However, I was also using it as an analogy to human behavior: we don't tend in our daily lives to imagine that one thing is another, nor do we seem to want one thing to be another, esp. in regard to our intimate relationships. I was just drawing a comparison between that and spiritual philosophy because I thought it apt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 , "adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16>" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: > Devi is 'prana-shakti' ! > she is in every breath we take ! inhalation as well as exhalation! > you know, sree lalita devi is described as " hamsa-gatiH " > The simplest meaning is "She whose gait (gatih) is lovely and > majestic like the hamsa, which is the carrier-bird of Creator brahmA. Breath is the vehicle of creation. One divine breath is the cycle of creation and destruction of the universe. Society breathes everyday as we brave rush hour into the city for work and again on the way back home. One human breath nourishes the body, mind and soul of our Being. Every moment, we are a part of this cosmic breath, connected to it with our own breathing cycles. If you would like to "lovely and majestic" like Devi Herself, make your breathing so! Slow and deep...like the majestic cycle of creation and destruction of the universe. Breathe deeply and calmly like the divine kings and queens that you are... It's all in the breath. AUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 Thank you Mary Ann You said : I have much reading to do to understand the philosophy behind Shakta. I am simply arriving here from where I already am, and wondering how or if Shakta fits my understandings, and/or if my understandings will shift as a result of Shakta. "That family analogy is interesting" I bring the family anology because I though that is the best way for one to understand. Well yes! I can post a huge philosophical stuff, but its going to be mind bogging and can fuse our mind. My main area of concern is how to bring these philosophical ideas down to earth so that non pundit like me and many others out there can understand. I know there are severals members who are reading the heavy stuff and does not understanding any of it. We need to bring it down to a level where we can related to. That is one of the reason why too I propose the idea of Inconversation series. Its supposedly to be simple and to the point ideas with the hope to initiate further questions and discussions over at the message board. "I thought it a Tantric approach to consider lovemaking as worship in some sense. However, I was also using it as an analogy to human behavior: we don't tend in our daily lives to imagine that one thing is another, nor do we seem to want one thing to be another, esp. in regard to our intimate relationships. I was just drawing a comparison between that and spiritual philosophy because I thought it apt" It is not wrong to some people who approach the divine from the sexual aspect. As we have mention several times : Paths are many, but Truth is One! But Tantra is just not about sex. There are a lot of misconceptions about Tantra and Tantrism. Perhaps you like to read on Sankara Menon page in our homepage on Shakta Tantra : http://www.shaktisadhana.org/shaktatantra.html I like to bring your attention to Shivak51 interesting article : it is longish [but if you do have the patience as he says jokingly] read it : see message 4150. And somebody just introduce me to a new site which I though you might find it beneficial : http://vi1.org/ Om ParaShaktiye Namaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2003 Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 , "adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16>" <adi_shakthi16> wrote: > yes, dear-heart! > > Devi is 'prana-shakti' ! > > she is in every breath we take ! inhalation as well as exhalation! > > you know, sree lalita devi is described as " hamsa-gatiH " > > The simplest meaning is "She whose gait (gatih) is lovely and > majestic like the hamsa, which is the carrier-bird of Creator brahmA. > But there are several esoteric meanings. > > The passage of life-giving air in and out of the human body is > called 'hamsa'. > > hakAreNa bahir-yAti sakAreNa punar-viSet / > It goes out by the (vocalisation of) 'ha' and comes in by (that > of) 'sa'. > > This hamsa- mantra therefore is the constant routine of human life, > inspite of its involuntariness. It is called ajapA-mantra - where > ajapA stands for that which is not being recited. She, the Mother > Goddess, is of this form. > > Also hamsa denotes the indiviual soul who gets a body appropriate to > the merits and demerits acquired by it in its eternal journey. gati > is the ultimate destination, of these souls. She is the One who is > the ultimate Destination of all souls. brahmvid-Apnoti param > (taittirIyopanishad; 2 - 1) meaning, the One who knows brahman, > reaches the Supreme. 'From where he never returns' says the scripture > in another place - 'yad-gatvA na nivartante'. > Also hamsa denotes a renunciate who has had the Enlightenment of the > absolute and therefore has no attachment to any particular place or > individual. So such renuciates roam from place to place. Such are > those who know Her as She is. So She is the One who is known by such > hamsa's. > > (hamsa-mantrArtha-rUpiNI : She personifies in Herself the > significance and meaning of the mantra 'hamsa'. The 'ha' syllable > connotes the word 'tat' (= 'That')of the upanishads. The 'sa' > syllable connotes the word 'tvam' ('You'). 'That ' is not amenable to > direct perception. 'You' is direct experience. The mantra 'hamsa' > contains within itself the conglomerate identity of both obtained by > what is called the definition which discards and does not discard -- > jahad-ajahal-lakshaNa . > > source v.krishnamurthy's science and spirituality! > > so, siva - u understand fully well what i am trying to say! so , all > of us who are 'breathing' are devi worshippers because she is 'hamsa > mantra rupini' For the same reasons, everyone is a worshipper of Brahman because, the word haMsa is not reserved for shaktas. It can also denote brahman. So if everyone who breathes can be a Shakta, then he is also a Vaishnava and a Shaiva too. So technically, a Shakta is one who is initiated into Her mantras as per the standard Shakta manuals. > > so'ham! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Sri Adi Shakti ji Namaste, You are right that nobody needs to be initiated into Hamsa mantra. Everybody does that japa whether they are aware of it or not. I agree very much with the rest of your post. What I am trying to say is that, doing this japa of hamsa mantra does not make them into shaktas in the general sense. One more thing to remember is that the tantras are not all the scriptures. There are puranas and many other scriptures whose words needs to be given equal consideration. rgds satish. --- "adi_shakthi16 <adi_shakthi16" <adi_shakthi16 wrote: > dear satish, > > pranams... > > you wrote in ambaal as well as here ... > > "For the same reasons, everyone is a worshipper of > Brahman because, > the word haMsa is not reserved for shaktas. It can > also denote > brahman. So if everyone who breathes can be a > Shakta, then he is also > a Vaishnava and a Shaiva too. > > So technically, a Shakta is one who is initiated > into Her mantras > as per the standard Shakta manuals." > > but as per vigyana bhairava tantra... > URDHVE PRANO BY ADHO JIVI VIASARGATMA PARAOCHCHARET > UTPATHIDVITAYASTHANE BHRANAD BHARITA STHITIH (verse > 24) > > TRANSLATION > > THE SUPREME SHAKTI whose nature is to create , > constantly expresses > HERSELF upward in the form of exhalation , and > downward in the form > of inhalation. > > by steadily fixing the mind on either of the two > spaces between the > breaths, one experiences the state of fulness of > bhairava. > > so, satish we all are always chanting the hamsa > mantra right from > our 'womb' days... i don't think we need to be > initiated into 'hams ' > mantra... > > the vijnana bhairava means the 'wisdom of bhairava' > - it is > an 'agama' coming from the mouth of the supreme > principle of the > universe, lord shiva... here the guru is bhairava > and the disciple is > bhairavi, the divine mother -shakti... > > hamsa mantra is a natural mantra... i do not believe > you have to be > initiated into it... > > hamsa mantra is also known as ajapa gayathri... the > lord himself > initiates us into this mantra when we are in our > mother's womb. > > this is my humble opinion... > > om sree matrayaii namaha! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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