Guest guest Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 India knows many goddesses but also the concept of One Great Goddess, MAHADEVI. As far as I know there are two possible theological concepts regarding Mahadevi: Eighter one declares one special goddess (Kali, Tripurasundari, etc.) as supreme and all other goddesses as her manifestations; or one declares that there is a supreme source from which all goddesses emanate and this supreme source is Mahadevi. I am interested in the second possiblity and would like to know about the concept of Mahadevi in different shools and sub-schools of the Shaiva/Shakta tradition. Has someone information? Regards, Alexandra Kafka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Greetings Alexandra Thank you for you r post. I will try to answer it within my limited knowledge and I do hope others will chip in too. >From my understanding the concept of Mahadevi is indeed a universal one especially amongst the Shakta. The Great DEVI who encompasses all the others. In shakti sadhdna itself there are different path : the srividya, the kali bhakta, durga bhakta etc, but ultimately all see the MahaDevi or the Adi ParaShakti as the Ultimate supreme Mother or the Brahman. The Srividya sees Shri Lalilatha as the Adi Parashakti and all the other goddess are the extended manifestation of HER. The same for Kali Bhakta, Durga bhakta etc. I am right now outstation, thought perhaps just peep in the group to check on things. I dont have the necesarry referene to list out to back my opinion. I will do so as soon as Im back home. OM ParaShaktiye Namah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Namaste Alexandra. >India knows many goddesses but also the concept of One Great Goddess, MAHADEVI. True. And the same is true of gods: a concept or vision similar to Mahadevi is expressed in words like Mahadeva (Great God) and Purushottoma (Supreme Male Person). It's important, though, that in India the many have been seen as _continuous_ with the One. There is a famous verse in the _Rig Veda_ : Ekam sat viprah bahudha vadanti. Reality is one, the wise give it many names. On one level, the goddesses and the Great Goddess, or the gods and the Great God, are comparable to angels and God in Christianity. However there are subtle differences. In Christianity, angels are not to be worshipped, nor would a worshipper address God with the name of an angel, such as Michael or Gabriel. In India's traditions, the many goddesses and gods _are_ worshipped, and the Great Goddess and Great God _are_ addressed using the names of the many goddesses and the many gods. The many merge into the One, like rivers into the ocean or branches into the bowl of a tree. >As far as I know there are two possible theological concepts regarding >Mahadevi: >Eighter one declares one special goddess (Kali, >Tripurasundari, etc.) as supreme and all other goddesses as her >manifestations; or one declares that there is a supreme source from which >all goddesses emanate and this supreme source is Mahadevi. >I am interested in the second possiblity I think perhaps your two possibilities seem more different from a western point of view (which wants to split off the many from the one) than from an Indian point view (where the many and the one are continous). >and would like to know about the concept of Mahadevi in different shools >and >sub-schools of the Shaiva/Shakta tradition. >Has someone information? For some years now, I have been studying literature in which Kali is worshipped as the Mahadevi, or (to put it another way) the Mahadevi is addressed and spoken about as Kali. One important book which does this is the _Kalika Purana_. It glorifies a universal feminine power whom it names, interchangeably, as Kali, Mahadevi, Mahamaya, Jagaddhatri (She Who Supports the World), Jaganmayi (She Who Contains the World) and Kamakhya (She Whose Name is Desire). Written about 1000 years ago, it is a comparatively early expression of the current of vision which manifested more recently in the devotional songs of Sri Ramprasad and the mystical experiences of Sri Ramakrishna. Have I addressed your question, Alexandra? Do you want to know more? Or is my answer beside the point? Blessings, Colin Robinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Dear Colin, Thank you very much for your message. May I ask you a different question? Is it true that one does not need a Guru for meditation on Kali? Kind regards, Alexandra - colinr Monday, March 03, 2003 1:47 AM Re: Mahadevi Namaste Alexandra. >India knows many goddesses but also the concept of One Great Goddess, MAHADEVI. True. And the same is true of gods: a concept or vision similar to Mahadevi is expressed in words like Mahadeva (Great God) and Purushottoma (Supreme Male Person). It's important, though, that in India the many have been seen as _continuous_ with the One. There is a famous verse in the _Rig Veda_ : Ekam sat viprah bahudha vadanti. Reality is one, the wise give it many names. On one level, the goddesses and the Great Goddess, or the gods and the Great God, are comparable to angels and God in Christianity. However there are subtle differences. In Christianity, angels are not to be worshipped, nor would a worshipper address God with the name of an angel, such as Michael or Gabriel. In India's traditions, the many goddesses and gods _are_ worshipped, and the Great Goddess and Great God _are_ addressed using the names of the many goddesses and the many gods. The many merge into the One, like rivers into the ocean or branches into the bowl of a tree. >As far as I know there are two possible theological concepts regarding >Mahadevi: >Eighter one declares one special goddess (Kali, >Tripurasundari, etc.) as supreme and all other goddesses as her >manifestations; or one declares that there is a supreme source from which >all goddesses emanate and this supreme source is Mahadevi. >I am interested in the second possiblity I think perhaps your two possibilities seem more different from a western point of view (which wants to split off the many from the one) than from an Indian point view (where the many and the one are continous). >and would like to know about the concept of Mahadevi in different shools >and >sub-schools of the Shaiva/Shakta tradition. >Has someone information? For some years now, I have been studying literature in which Kali is worshipped as the Mahadevi, or (to put it another way) the Mahadevi is addressed and spoken about as Kali. One important book which does this is the _Kalika Purana_. It glorifies a universal feminine power whom it names, interchangeably, as Kali, Mahadevi, Mahamaya, Jagaddhatri (She Who Supports the World), Jaganmayi (She Who Contains the World) and Kamakhya (She Whose Name is Desire). Written about 1000 years ago, it is a comparatively early expression of the current of vision which manifested more recently in the devotional songs of Sri Ramprasad and the mystical experiences of Sri Ramakrishna. Have I addressed your question, Alexandra? Do you want to know more? Or is my answer beside the point? Blessings, Colin Robinson Sponsor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 >Dear Colin, > >Thank you very much for your message. >May I ask you a different question? >Is it true that one does not need a Guru for meditation on Kali? > >Kind regards, >Alexandra Dear Alexandra, You are asking me to grasp a nettle! Topics like this have previously aroused some lively discussion on this list. My own answer (based on study, personal experience, and attention to the experience of others) is basically that it depends what you mean by "a Guru". Taking the Sanskrit word Guru in a broad sense, we all have sources, teachers, counsellors, all of which can be called gurus. Sri Vimalananda Swami (an Indian tantrik scholar of the Kali tradition) writes that every child's first guru is its mother: she teaches it to say the sacred word 'Ma', and she gives it its first lessons. In this sense, the Guru is an everpresent and very necessary part of life, and always will be. We all have gurus, but our individualistic culture can cause us to give them too little credit. Another Indian shakta writer, Sri S. Kameswar of Bombay, makes a similar statement and goes on to say: "The Devi, the world mother, is naturally the first guru." That implies that if you're with the Devi, you will never be without a Guru. On the other hand, probably you are thinking of the word "Guru" in a narrower sense -- a man or woman who passes on a formal initiation and gives person to person guidance. In that sense, my answer to your question is, Yes, it's true. There _are_ people who find benefit in contemplating Kali, without being in a formal guru-disciple relationship. There may be other people whose doctrines tell them this is impossible. It is rather like the doctrine that a bumble bee can't fly, because its body is too heavy for its wings. Such a doctrine may interest scholars of aerodynamic theory, but will it interest the bumble bee? May the Goddess bless your path, Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 Dear Colin, Thank you. you have really answered a question which everyone has been pointing out to me all along, that is u need a guru to progress. my experience is after the initial initiation, Ma herself takes on the responisibility of guiding u and though the path is more difficult than if u r hand held by a guru, it makes u more communicative with Ma and u become really close to Her from ur side and She does take care of your responisibility many times. love to all, sujatha --- colinr wrote: > >Dear Colin, > > > >Thank you very much for your message. > >May I ask you a different question? > >Is it true that one does not need a Guru for > meditation on Kali? > > > >Kind regards, > >Alexandra > > Dear Alexandra, > > You are asking me to grasp a nettle! > > Topics like this have previously aroused some lively > discussion on this list. > > My own answer (based on study, personal experience, > and attention to the > experience of others) is basically that it depends > what you mean by "a > Guru". > > Taking the Sanskrit word Guru in a broad sense, we > all have sources, > teachers, counsellors, all of which can be called > gurus. > > Sri Vimalananda Swami (an Indian tantrik scholar of > the Kali tradition) > writes that every child's first guru is its mother: > she teaches it to say > the sacred word 'Ma', and she gives it its first > lessons. > > In this sense, the Guru is an everpresent and very > necessary part of life, > and always will be. We all have gurus, but our > individualistic culture can > cause us to give them too little credit. > > Another Indian shakta writer, Sri S. Kameswar of > Bombay, makes a similar > statement and goes on to say: "The Devi, the world > mother, is naturally the > first guru." That implies that if you're with the > Devi, you will never be > without a Guru. > > On the other hand, probably you are thinking of the > word "Guru" in a > narrower sense -- a man or woman who passes on a > formal initiation and > gives person to person guidance. > > In that sense, my answer to your question is, Yes, > it's true. There _are_ > people who find benefit in contemplating Kali, > without being in a formal > guru-disciple relationship. > > There may be other people whose doctrines tell them > this is impossible. > > It is rather like the doctrine that a bumble bee > can't fly, because its > body is too heavy for its wings. > > Such a doctrine may interest scholars of aerodynamic > theory, but will it > interest the bumble bee? > > May the Goddess bless your path, > Colin > > > ===== Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 Mahadevi, well dont u think, the very concept of God is omnipresent and ominipotent, so Mahadevi is one of the many names of Ma just like Kali, Bala, Lalitha and so on, just the way we are addressed in different ways by our own family members. each to his/ her own preference of addressing Ma? Because in brahma satya reiki grid expansions, we had the opportunity to see the One merging into the Other to form only a single form, and also all forms emnating from One form. regards, sujatha --- Alexandra Kafka <alexandra.kafka wrote: > Dear Colin, > > Thank you very much for your message. > May I ask you a different question? > Is it true that one does not need a Guru for > meditation on Kali? > > Kind regards, > Alexandra > - > colinr > > Monday, March 03, 2003 1:47 AM > Re: Mahadevi > > > Namaste Alexandra. > > >India knows many goddesses but also the concept > of One Great Goddess, MAHADEVI. > > True. And the same is true of gods: a concept or > vision similar to Mahadevi > is expressed in words like Mahadeva (Great God) > and Purushottoma (Supreme > Male Person). > > It's important, though, that in India the many > have been seen as > _continuous_ with the One. > > There is a famous verse in the _Rig Veda_ : Ekam > sat viprah bahudha > vadanti. Reality is one, the wise give it many > names. > > On one level, the goddesses and the Great Goddess, > or the gods and the > Great God, are comparable to angels and God in > Christianity. > > However there are subtle differences. In > Christianity, angels are not to be > worshipped, nor would a worshipper address God > with the name of an angel, > such as Michael or Gabriel. > > In India's traditions, the many goddesses and gods > _are_ worshipped, and > the Great Goddess and Great God _are_ addressed > using the names of the many > goddesses and the many gods. > > The many merge into the One, like rivers into the > ocean or branches into > the bowl of a tree. > > >As far as I know there are two possible > theological concepts regarding > >Mahadevi: > >Eighter one declares one special goddess (Kali, > >Tripurasundari, etc.) as supreme and all other > goddesses as her > >manifestations; or one declares that there is a > supreme source from which > >all goddesses emanate and this supreme source is > Mahadevi. > >I am interested in the second possiblity > > I think perhaps your two possibilities seem more > different from a western > point of view (which wants to split off the many > from the one) than from an > Indian point view (where the many and the one are > continous). > > >and would like to know about the concept of > Mahadevi in different shools > >and >sub-schools of the Shaiva/Shakta tradition. > >Has someone information? > > For some years now, I have been studying > literature in which Kali is > worshipped as the Mahadevi, or (to put it another > way) the Mahadevi is > addressed and spoken about as Kali. > > One important book which does this is the _Kalika > Purana_. > > It glorifies a universal feminine power whom it > names, interchangeably, as > Kali, Mahadevi, Mahamaya, Jagaddhatri (She Who > Supports the World), > Jaganmayi (She Who Contains the World) and > Kamakhya (She Whose Name is > Desire). > > Written about 1000 years ago, it is a > comparatively early expression of the > current of vision which manifested more recently > in the devotional songs of > Sri Ramprasad and the mystical experiences of Sri > Ramakrishna. > > Have I addressed your question, Alexandra? Do you > want to know more? Or is > my answer beside the point? > > Blessings, > > Colin Robinson > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ===== Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.