New list: Love for Women Poetry Group-lalleshweri-kasmiri saint-poetess !

May 30, 2003

dear Maryann,

you ask ....

Hello: Could you please tell me, are the 14th century mystic

verses you mention specifically about loving women? I have not

heard of Lalla, or the others you mention, and am interested to

know more.

well, if you would like to read Saint Lalleshweri's devotional poems,

please look into the files section of this group and it is listed

under Lal deb's vaks. If you are interested, i will post more links

on this shaivite poetess who later on converted to sufism.

Hari AUM!

May 30, 2003

<vilasini43> wrote:

> dear Maryann,

>

> you ask ....

> Hello: Could you please tell me, are the 14th century mystic

> verses you mention specifically about loving women? I have not

> heard of Lalla, or the others you mention, and am interested to

> know more.

> well, if you would like to read Saint Lalleshweri's devotional

poems,

> please look into the files section of this group and it is listed

> under Lal deb's vaks. If you are interested, i will post more

links

> on this shaivite poetess who later on converted to sufism.

Converted to sufism? This is interesting. can you please direct

me to any source where there is an account of her conversion.

Thx

Satish.

>

> Hari AUM!

May 30, 2003

Nmashkar Satish, you ask

"Converted to sufism? This is interesting. can you please direct

me to any source where there is an account of her conversion."

What is interesting? her converting to sufism? Like the poet kabir ,

Lal ded believed in the communal harmony of hindus and muslims.

She was born and married into a high-caste Brahmin family near

Srinagar. The marriage did not last because of her in-laws' ill-

treatment and her own rebellious temperament. She was a gusty woman

for her times. The shackles of a patriarchal society in which she

lived did not keep her from thinking independently. She would not shy

away from finding faults even in her Guru.

Like Mahadevi, before her, Lalla was a devotee of Shiva. She found

Him dwelling in herself. "I, Lalla," says she, "went out far in

search of Shiva, the omnipresent Lord; after wandering, I, Lalla,

found Him at last within my own self, abiding in His own house." To

her eclectic turn of mind, all organized religions were loathsome.

She abhorred ritualistic religious ceremonies. She dismissed

pilgrimages to holy places as "useless". "Pilgrim Sannyasi," she

lamented, "goes from shrine to shrine expecting to meet Him who

abides within oneself". Fasting, to her "serves no purpose; beads and

rosaries are mere plaything." She castigated the practice of animal

sacrifice offered to stone idols.

"This animal, the sheep," she says, "gives you wool to protect you

from cold and cover your privacy, and for itself it subsists just on

God-given grass and water. Who then has ordained you, Oh ignoramus

Pandit, that you slaughter it to offer to a stone."

She preached harmony and tolerance between different religions and

thus epitomized the woman saint Rabia's saying, "Love of God hath so

absorbed me that neither love nor hate of any other thing remain in

heart." Her poetry too, was catholic in its sweep and it conveyed a

message of peace and harmony. She bemoaned people consumed with greed

and avarice. In a beautiful verse she says.

I will weep and weep for you, my Soul,

The world has caught you in its spell,

Though you cling to them with the anchor of steel,

Not even the shadow of the things you love,

Will go with you when you are dead.

Some quarters claim that Lal Ded had embraced Islam and that she was

named *Bibi Lalla Arifa.* Such impression might have been inspired by

the fact she lived at the time when the Muslim influence in Kashmir

was on the rise, and her ideas and ideals bore a close resemblance to

sufi beliefs.

Similar controversy existed about Kabir (1440-1518). After his death

a dispute arose between his Muslim and Hindu followers whether his

body be buried or cremated. In fact, for historic reasons and common

cultural mores, the saints and sages in the subcontinent are

reverenced equally by Hindus and Muslims. The reason is simple: it is

the universality of their message. ".

Lal Ded is regarded "the maker of modern Kashmiri language as well as

literature". The beauty of her verses or Vaakhs lies in her usage of

colloquial language and vocabulary of every day use, because of her

close association with lowly people like carpenters, weavers,

potters, shepherds, etc, rather than an elitist or scholarly phrase,

word or metaphor. This made her a household name. Even today she

is, "an integral part of the life and the lore of every Kashmiri".

Satish, i would encourage you to read this book Lal Ded: The Great

Kashmiri Saint-Poetess and also the kashmiri sufi poems of Lal ded

and judge for yoursdelf the influence of sufism on this great

poetess.

Hari Aum!

May 30, 2003

L A L L E S H W A R I

- VIRENDRA QAZI ( virendraqazi )

The land of Kashmir reveals the abundance of natural

and spiritual beauty. Lot of admirers, including sages and Kings, have paid

tributes in their own way to this blissful valley. The admiration of famous

Mughal King Jahangir is well known : " if there is a Heaven on earth, it is

here, it is here..".

If we go into the past and delve into the ancient

Kashmir, we find more of perfection, spiritual fulfilment and blissful charm.

The famous historian and author of Rajtarangini (chronicle of kings) has vividly

compared abundance of Kashmir almost matching the description of "Devaloka".

Nilmata Puran also glorifies the land, flaura, fauna and inhabitants of Kashmir.

SHE HAD A VISION--OF PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE. She

could see beyond times: right from the formation of Kashmir valley out of vast

lake, a great expansion of water, surrounded on all sides by mountains. After

this vision of the past she could see the present - her times. She could narrate

the woes and turbulence permeating her life and the society in

general.

But, surprisingly she could remarkably visualise the

future--which comprises of our present times. She has clearly brought out

contradiction of the present age--inspite of it plenty how people are still

craving with mad zeal. Material advancement has led to internal despair.

Although world has become one family due to communication and networking, still

we are fighting over narrow things like caste, creed and colour.

SHE WAS NONE OTHER THAN LALLESHWARI, popularly called

LAL-DED. She was 14th Century village girl turned into a mystical genious, who

reached supreme heights of Sainthood. We are wonderstuck at her self-effort,

stark worldly realities, self transformation and hope for ever sincere aspirant

to realise God within oneself and within this very life. Some call her "Mira of

Kashmir". Some sufi saints have hailed her as "Second Rabia of Bassra". But,

essentially, she was torch bearer of the new spiritual movements, which

witnessed arrival of great saints like Guru Nanak, Mira Bhai, Kabir,Tuka Ram,

etc.

HER STORY which is basically linked to her times, when in

a pandit house, she found she was lost within the facade of rituals, moral

degenaration had set in and people seemed to have no answer. And surprisingly,

wickedness was in abundance that time also and well represented by her

mother-in-law. She would starve her. She would serve her meal which consisted of

a big round stone covered with a layer of rice to give it a semblance of big

helping of food. Lalla would respond with patience and equanimity. She would

wash the round stone and keep in

the kitchen for the next use by her mother-in-law.

STRANGE ARE THE WAYS OF THE WORLD. She witnessed wise

and learned man starving, withering like leaves emaciated during winter wind. On

the other hand, she saw a fool enjoying a full meal and then beating his cook,

pointing to mirror shortcomings. Since then, Lalla said, she is waiting for

deliverence from the odd ways and bondages of this world.

SUFFERINGS AND PERSEVERENCE- FACE WITH TOTAL EQUANIMITY.

One is deeply moved by her sadhana or tapasya. This was both external and

internal. She found life was getting wasted and one was only groping in the

dark. Even Guru's instruction's seemed too difficult for her to follow. She

reveals her agony but emphasises one has to bear with calamities and thunder in

the spiritual sadhana. The real guidance is patience, contentment and

forebearance. Thus one can get refined and tread the spiritual path in real

terms.

SHE RELINQUISHED HER HOME AND BECOME A WONDERING MONK. It is

said people flanked her as her supernatural powers got revealed. Guru's dictum

was

now clear : it was time to leave home. No look back! Since cruel

mother-in-law failed to dislodge her, she poisioned her son with false

accusations against her. She was returning after filling the earthen pitcher

with water. Her husband hit the pitcher. Lo! the water remained intact although

the broken earthen pieces of the pitcher fell down and got scattered on the

ground.

HER MIRACLES HAD A MESSAGE BEHIND. Many miracles are attributed

to her life. But what is important and remarkable is that each incident had a

message, which was relevant at that time and which is equally relevant for the

present time.

We have heard about various inspiring incidents and messages. She

tells the story of her previous births, the miracle of chandra-Kala etc. She

also makes her Guru aware of his obsession with "Maya" as he was counting his

assets in the form of horses deployed, when he appeared sitting in meditation.

She made the famous Nund Rishi aware as an infant her mother brought him to

Lal-Ded saying the baby is not sucking milk. "When you are not shy of coming in

this world, why feel shy of sucking milk". Soon he followed her instructions.

HER PHILOSOPHY AND OUR TIMES. The present chaos in our world has

almost reached a flash point. We see only disharmony, discord and dispute which

can sow the seed for disaster. There is a great yearning for a saviour.

Lalleswari's life and teachings can uplift us. It can infuse in us the spirit of

patience, love, contentment, steadfastness, unity, spiritual

thrill, simple ways to reach Lord, Self discovery, etc. - all

ultimately leading to upliftment at individual, family, nation, and world as a

whole.

--------------------------------

Dam Dam Omkar Man Parnovum;

Panay Paran Te Panay Bozan.

Sooham Padas Aham Golum;

Tale Lal Be Vaches Prakash - Sathan.

EVERY MOVEMENT AND MOVEMENT - MY MIND WAS LEARNING AND CHANTING : OM!

THEN, I WAS THE SPEAKER - I WAS THE LISTENER

THE DESTINATION - 'I AM HE" WAS REACHED BY OVERCOMING "EGO"

THUS I REACHED ABODE OF LIGHT

-----

vilasini43 <vilasini43 wrote:dear Maryann,

you ask ....

Hello: Could you please tell me, are the 14th century mystic

verses you mention specifically about loving women? I have not

heard of Lalla, or the others you mention, and am interested to

know more.

well, if you would like to read Saint Lalleshweri's devotional poems,

please look into the files section of this group and it is listed

under Lal deb's vaks. If you are interested, i will post more links

on this shaivite poetess who later on converted to sufism.

Hari AUM!

Catch all the cricket action. Download Score tracker

May 30, 2003

Lalla Says:-

You are the Sky, You are the earth;

You are the day, the very air, the night;

You are the grain-offering, sandal paste,

flowers and water too;

You are everything, Oh Lord!

So what can we offer to You!

vilasini43 <vilasini43 wrote:dear Maryann,

you ask ....

Hello: Could you please tell me, are the 14th century mystic

verses you mention specifically about loving women? I have not

heard of Lalla, or the others you mention, and am interested to

know more.

well, if you would like to read Saint Lalleshweri's devotional poems,

please look into the files section of this group and it is listed

under Lal deb's vaks. If you are interested, i will post more links

on this shaivite poetess who later on converted to sufism.

Hari AUM!

Catch all the cricket action. Download Score tracker

May 30, 2003

Respected Sir,

We have Lalleshwari International Trust with the important

aim of spreading the teachings of Lalleshwari. All discerning scholars are

welcome to the books and literature available with me on the life and sayings of

this mystic poetess.

During 1990 - 92 we did a comprehensive work to record her

poetry in Kashmiri and made audio cassettes.

She was never converted to Sufiasm. All her sayings and

teachings reveal the practical aspect of Kashmir Shaivism.

Kashmir Shaivism is a universal spiritual philosophy which

focusses on the supreme unity of individual self with the God. it accepts all

the aspects of life in totality and stresses on the realization through Divine

Grace.

Lalleshwari's vakh's mention about Bhuddist thought and

middle path. She has wonderfully explained the process of Kundalini. Please read

some vakhs as given below.

Virendra.

=================

LALLESHWARI - HER SPIRITUAL GEMS

Emanating from the basic Creed of Kashmir Shaivism she stresses

positive acceptance of the material world rather than the philosophy of

escapism. We can rather say that God has made man in His own image. It is His

Own Maya Shakti which makes man to see differently. Therefore, real joy can be

gained as we live in this world and go about our work. Avoiding suppression and

denial like great puritans, we should exercise moderation in living and turning

away from the ambition of wealth, power and pleasures of senses. This will

prepare us for the inward journey to realize God.

We can, indeed, get the spiritual thrill by reproducing a few mystical

outpourings of her heart :-

GRACE OF GOD IS INDEPENDENT OF HUMAN EFFORT.

Some Thou pushed towards Bliss Thyself !

Some struggled very hard !

Some got drunk and obsessed :

Some one's Sadhna ended in Vain !

TO REALISE HIM OVERCOME THE BARRIERS

Shiva abides in all that exists anywhere ;

Do not discriminate between a Hindu and a Musalman ;

If you are wise, recognize your true Self ;

That is the true awareness of God.

DO NOT ESCAPE THE WORLD

Some renounced their homes, some the hermitages ;

stay as you are and be firm in your mind.

Thereby you will get established in the Self ;

What is the good of smearing ashes.

MODERATION IN LIVING

Overeating will not permit you reach the goal ;

Willful abstention from food makes you conceited.

Eat moderately to be a normal person ;

Moderate eating would surely lead to unbolting of the

Gates !

LOOK FOR GOD WITHIN

Looking for the mystic Moon within me ;

It was--like searching for the like.

I found Narayana (Shiva) permeating everywhere/

everything ;

Why this sport of diversity, Oh Lord !

ON KUNDALINI

Crossing the Six Forests, came the SHESHIKALA

oozing,

The Prakrti was sacrificed (burnt out) with the air

(Prana).

With the fire of love, I roasted my heart,

Thus SHIVA was realized by me.

BLISS

I, Lalla, entered through the garden - gate of my soul ;

There, O Joy ! I found SHIVA united with SHAKTI.

Overwhelmed, I got immersed in Lake of Nector.

Even though alive or dead, what can existe

vilasini43 <vilasini43 wrote:

dear Maryann,

you ask ....

Hello: Could you please tell me, are the 14th century mystic

verses you mention specifically about loving women? I have not

heard of Lalla, or the others you mention, and am interested to

know more.

well, if you would like to read Saint Lalleshweri's devotional poems,

please look into the files section of this group and it is listed

under Lal deb's vaks. If you are interested, i will post more links

on this shaivite poetess who later on converted to sufism.

Hari AUM!

Catch all the cricket action. Download Score tracker

May 31, 2003

Thanks Satish for posting this -- I had missed vilasini43's reply

to my post.

VILISANI43: I will check out the files of this group for more such

poetry, and please do post links about this poetess. I have

noticed from the little bit of exposure and experience I have with

kundalini yoga that sufi women seem to be involved in it. I hope

that doesn't seem like a gross generalization; it's just what I've

noticed. For example, Gurumuk Kaur Khalsa is a Sufi, and I think

Gurutej Kaur, who has a video out called Chakra Yoga, is a Sufi,

too. Could it be that hatha yoga is more Hindu and Kundalini

more Sufi? If so, why is that?

, "Satish"

<satisharigela> wrote:

> <vilasini43> wrote:

> > dear Maryann,

> >

> > you ask ....

> > Hello: Could you please tell me, are the 14th century mystic

> > verses you mention specifically about loving women? I have

not

> > heard of Lalla, or the others you mention, and am interested

to

> > know more.

> > well, if you would like to read Saint Lalleshweri's devotional

> poems,

> > please look into the files section of this group and it is listed

> > under Lal deb's vaks. If you are interested, i will post more

> links

> > on this shaivite poetess who later on converted to sufism.

>

> Converted to sufism? This is interesting. can you please

direct

> me to any source where there is an account of her conversion.

>

> Thx

> Satish.

>

> >

> > Hari AUM!

May 31, 2003

THIS IS JUST WONDERFUL!!!

IT IS BASED ON RESEARCH AND FACTS.

THANKS.

VIRENDRA