Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 Kali and Durga are two Hindu goddesses with a unique reciprocal relationship. Both are wrathful aspects of Shiva's Shakti, both many-armed and weapon-weilding. In mantra and kirtan, they are often invoked together, almost in the same breath; "Kali-Durga" is a common appellation. But Durga's energies are primarily associated with the waxing phase or <shukla paksha> of the Moon, culminating in the Full Moon or <purnima>. Durga is seen as a woman warrior, usually riding a tiger or a lion. Her complexion is often golden, the expression on her face always placid and serene, even when she is slaughtering countless hoards of demons. She is the central figure of the Shakta text, the <Devi Mahatmya> (Praises of the Goddess>, where she incarnates to rescue both Devas and mortals. Often below her feline vehicle is portrayed a triangular pinwheel divided into nine sections, and nine is her identifying number. She has sworn never to cohabit with any man who cannot defeat her in battle, and since she is undefeatable, she is perforce a virgin goddess. Yet she is seen as the mother of all the other goddesses, indeed, of all the gods, too. She contains the energies of all the other deities within her. At <purnima> she is envisioned as (nonsexual) companion to Shiva in his Bhairava aspect as wandering sadhu. She cares for and feeds him, bringing him cannabis, and filling his skull-cup begging bowl with rice as Annapurna, "She Who is Full of Food." Kali's energies are mostly associated with the Moon's waning phase, or <krishna paksha>, culminating in the Dark Moon or <amavasya>. Although armed with weapons, Kali is not the rational tactician of battle that Durga is. Carried away with passion and anger, she is more of a berserker whose attacks are unplanned and uncontrolled. She seldom rides, although accompanied by creatures like cobras, jackals, vultures and other carrion-birds (whose form she herself may assume). Her complexion is blue-black, her three eyes roll wildly, and her red tongue is often extended between her teeth. She is invoked in most Tantric texts as the sexual consort of Shiva, whom she mounts with him in the bottom position; or she dances on his chest as he gazes up at her lovingly. Her yantra contains five concentric, downward-pointing triangles, and five is her identifying number (although she appears as leader in a group of ten Tantric Wisdom Goddesses or <Dasa Maha Vidya> -- a pair of fives, perhaps? Ornamented with serpents, bones, and bleeding body-parts, she is usually young, but can assume withered and emaciated crone form (called Chamunda), and terrifying demon shapes. She is called "Mother," not of the other goddesses as with Durga, but Mother of the Universe, and particularly of all things which perish with time. At <amavasya>, she is seen as sexually joined with Shiva in the cremation grounds, or dancing with him, accompanied by her companions, the black-skinned and red-haired Dakinis or Sky-walkers, whom she shakes out of her wild and never-combed hair. As a collector of <murtis>, or Hindu bronze statues depicting the deities, I was aware that on some level, because she contains all the other Shaktis within her, an image of Durga may be worshipped as any of the other Goddesses of Hinduism. And whether or not the Moon is waxing, it is appropriate to invoke Durga when one feels powerless, or needs to be filled -- be it with food, material goods, courage, or affection. But what about Kali? And (having also studied Wicca) does Hinduism address the idea of a Triple Goddess? When I first began getting involved in These Things, I browsed through Noo Yawk's Little India with the intent of purchasing my first bronze goddess image. There in a store stood a bronze of Parvati, the third form of Shiva's consort, peaceful instead of wrathful, with only two arms -- because she was born through the womb of Mother Meena, wife of Himavat (the Himalayan mountains). Her body swaying in three angles, broad-bosomed, narrow-waisted, wide-hipped, Parvati is famous for her asceticisms done to win Shiva as her husband, and for being the doting mother of heir son, elephant-headed Ganesha. I had fallen in love, and I asked the shopkeeper for a closer look. He called an assistant, saying, "Bring me the Kali." My brow furrowed, and I protested, "How is this Kali? Where is the raised sword, the third eye, the necklace of skulls? Surely this is Parvati.." And the proprietor gave me a knowing wink. "ALL the goddesses are Kali," he whispered. And I soon went home with the first of my statues, still prominent on my altar. For the shopkeeper was correct. Just as all the goddesses are contained in Durga, Kali is present in each and every goddess, because everything is caught up in Time and Eternity, which is Kali's realm. And whether or not the Moon is waning, it is appropriate to invoke Kali when one feels burdened -- to ask the Dark Goddess, "Mother -- take away my fear... take away my anger... take away my negativity..." Eventually, she will take away your body. But first she will take away your heart, and replace it with all the Universe. -- Len/ Kalipadma ______________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 Hello Len/Kalipadma: Do you have an Ardhanareshwari in your collection of bronzes? If so, where did you get it? I just learned yesterday why Ganesh has an elephant head. Maybe everyone else on the list already knows this? Apparently, one day, Parvati was taking a bath and for some reason stationed hers and Shiva's son Ganesh outside of the bathroom with instructions not to let Shiva in. When Shiva wanted to find Parvati and Ganesh wouldn't let him pass, Shiva took out his trident and cut Ganesh's head off. Parvati, upset by this act, turned herself into Kali. The upshot is that she demanded that Shiva bring Ganesh back to life and Shiva went running out and the first head he found (I guess he also had to kill an elephant) he put onto Ganesh. Just another story of hetero-patriachal bliss. , kalipadma@j... wrote: > Parvati is famous for her > asceticisms done to win Shiva as her husband, and for being the doting > mother of heir son, elephant-headed Ganesha. > > I had fallen in love, and I asked the shopkeeper for a closer look. He > called an assistant, saying, "Bring me the Kali." > > My brow furrowed, and I protested, "How is this Kali? Where is the > raised sword, the third eye, the necklace of skulls? Surely this is > Parvati.." > > And the proprietor gave me a knowing wink. "ALL the goddesses are Kali," > he whispered. And I soon went home with the first of my statues, still > prominent on my altar. > > For the shopkeeper was correct. Just as all the goddesses are contained > in Durga, Kali is present in each and every goddess, because everything > is caught up in Time and Eternity, which is Kali's realm. And whether or > not the Moon is waning, it is appropriate to invoke Kali when one feels > burdened -- to ask the Dark Goddess, "Mother -- take away my fear... take > away my anger... take away my negativity..." Eventually, she will take > away your body. But first she will take away your heart, and replace it > with all the Universe. > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > ______________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 måndagen den 2 juni 2003 06.52 skrev Mary Ann: > Just another story of hetero-patriachal bliss. I have found that apart from often being amusing, those stories have a kind of deep moral behind them. They often have multiple levels of meaning, and it is not always so easy to find those muliple meanings. Even today those stories have a lot to teach, since they often deal with what happened in the past, and as we are about the same kind of humans as we were in the past, we act in very similar ways. The demigods are not that much different either, since they are personalities just like we are. The scene for those stories is often a kind of more or less ancient patriarchial Indian culture. I think many of those stores could be updated to a more modern culture, to make the deep meaning more visible. Westeneres often only see the amusing propensities of the stories, and not the deep philosophical teachings. Now, does Ganesha really have an elephant head? We in the west maybe see a kind of gruesome bloode picture, how the head was cut off, and all the mess and blood, and then the killing of an elephant to get the head surgically transplanted. Well, that brings up the question - where is the heavenly sphere? Is there a planet somewhere in the universe where Parvati-Shiva and Ganesha are living in living biological bodies just like us? The devas (demigods) live in a more subtle existence. Bodies of meat and blood is characteristic of the more gross existence that we live in, but they don't have bodies of the same character as us. Even we exist within our mind, on the subtle platform, and not in the brain. Even we are actually subtler beings, and despite all the western scientific advances, they have not found where the self is located. Our thoughts and consciousness exists even without the gross body. Even in sleep, when the gross body is non-active, do we exist and the difference in sleep is that we are not connected with the external senses, so we can float free in the more subtler realms. Ganesha exists on a more subtle platform. There is no need for flesh and blood, the way we know it, on that platform. So there is no problem to subtly take an elephant head and subtly transplant it on top of Ganesha. Exactly how, I don't know. But then, I don't know how to exactly make a human transplant either, I just know that it is possible. I don't get particularly bothered by not knowing the details of how something is done. There are already so many things that goes on on earth that I don't have any idea of how they are done and could as well be "magic". Prisni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 Dear Prisni: Thank you for your comments. I agree there are deeper levels of awareness that these stories can access. I see such stories as depicting our human condition and agree about the realm of the mind. I also feel that one must not deny the violence in the stories, and the context in which such violence takes place - marriage and family relations. The stories reflect things from the past, but there are violent happenings in marriage and family today as well which may be based on stories from the past and how they continue to influence the present. Also, such violence can be on psychic, psychological, or emotional level, and not appear directly physical, i.e. no blood, yet quite damaging to the individuals involved. I hope that the stories can help raise peoples' consciousness so they can learn not to continue the patterns of emotion, thought and action that create such violence. People do have a tendency to repeat what they see, hear about, read, and/or experience, however. All the more reason to learn and to communicate about such things in order to better understand and not simply repeat the past. Namaste, Mary Ann , Prisni <pgd-prisni@a...> wrote: > måndagen den 2 juni 2003 06.52 skrev Mary Ann: > > > Just another story of hetero-patriachal bliss. > > I have found that apart from often being amusing, those stories have a kind of > deep moral behind them. They often have multiple levels of meaning, and it is > not always so easy to find those muliple meanings. Even today those stories > have a lot to teach, since they often deal with what happened in the past, > and as we are about the same kind of humans as we were in the past, we act in > very similar ways. The demigods are not that much different either, since > they are personalities just like we are. > > The scene for those stories is often a kind of more or less ancient > patriarchial Indian culture. I think many of those stores could be updated to > a more modern culture, to make the deep meaning more visible. Westeneres > often only see the amusing propensities of the stories, and not the deep > philosophical teachings. > > Now, does Ganesha really have an elephant head? We in the west maybe see a > kind of gruesome bloode picture, how the head was cut off, and all the mess > and blood, and then the killing of an elephant to get the head surgically > transplanted. Well, that brings up the question - where is the heavenly > sphere? Is there a planet somewhere in the universe where Parvati-Shiva and > Ganesha are living in living biological bodies just like us? > > The devas (demigods) live in a more subtle existence. Bodies of meat and blood > is characteristic of the more gross existence that we live in, but they don't > have bodies of the same character as us. Even we exist within our mind, on > the subtle platform, and not in the brain. Even we are actually subtler > beings, and despite all the western scientific advances, they have not found > where the self is located. Our thoughts and consciousness exists even without > the gross body. Even in sleep, when the gross body is non-active, do we exist > and the difference in sleep is that we are not connected with the external > senses, so we can float free in the more subtler realms. > > Ganesha exists on a more subtle platform. There is no need for flesh and > blood, the way we know it, on that platform. So there is no problem to subtly > take an elephant head and subtly transplant it on top of Ganesha. Exactly > how, I don't know. But then, I don't know how to exactly make a human > transplant either, I just know that it is possible. I don't get particularly > bothered by not knowing the details of how something is done. There are > already so many things that goes on on earth that I don't have any idea of > how they are done and could as well be "magic". > > Prisni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 04:52:32 -0000 "Mary Ann" <maryann writes: > Hello Len/Kalipadma: Do you have an Ardhanareshwari in your > collection of bronzes? If so, where did you get it? Yes, but the store is no longer in existence. Although the statue is pretty, it shows Parvati's half with two (!) arms, to preserve bilateral symmetry, I guess... Contact <The Himalayan Academy> in Hawaii, who are affiliated with the publishers of "Hinduism Today" magazine. They are Shaiva in orientation, and at one point were selling a nice Ardhanarishvara bronze. > I just learned yesterday why Ganesh has an elephant head. > Maybe everyone else on the list already knows this? Apparently, > one day, Parvati was taking a bath and for some reason > stationed hers and Shiva's son Ganesh outside of the bathroom > with instructions not to let Shiva in. When Shiva wanted to find > Parvati and Ganesh wouldn't let him pass, Shiva took out his > trident and cut Ganesh's head off. Parvati, upset by this act, > turned herself into Kali. The upshot is that she demanded that > Shiva bring Ganesh back to life and Shiva went running out and > the first head he found (I guess he also had to kill an elephant) > he put onto Ganesh. > > Just another story of hetero-patriachal bliss. > 1. Parvati created Ganesha parthenogenically, without Shiva's participation, sculpting him out of scurf and dried sandalpaste from her body and breathing life into it/ him. He was asked to keep intruders out of Parvati's chamber while she was bathing (Shiva's mischievous companions, the Ganas, used to sneak in to catch a peek!) 2. So Ganesha did not know that Shiva was his adoptive "father," nor did Shiva know that Ganesha was Parvati's son when they did battle. 3. In most versions, it was Vishnu who offered to replace Ganesha's head, and chose a baby elephant sleeping with his head facing North (an inauspicious position) to be the donor. As God of Change, Shiva could not return Ganesha to the same form he was before his beheading. 4. Parvati ensured that Ganesha would garner great honor as commander of the Ganas, by his being invoked before any undertaking to remove any obstacles. Bear in mind that there is traditionally (humorous?) badinage between Shaivas (worshippers of Shiva) and Shaktas (worshippers of the Goddess) over which deity is more powerful, who has greater prestige, and so forth. In the origin of Ganesha, Shiva tries to control his wife Parvati, but she ends up in superior position, with ultimate command over Shiva's Ganas through her devoted son Ganesha. For what it's worth, in South India, Ganesha is so impressed by his parents' "hetero-patriarchal [married] bliss," he vows never to marry, himself, and is a "confirmed bachelor." All the Goddesses love spending time with Ganesha, because he's a witty speaker, knows all the latest fashions, is a good dancer, lends a sympathetic ear, and makes no sexual demands on them. I know men like that, myself, don't you?... -- Len/ Kalipadma ______________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 Hi Len/Kalipadma: Thanks for the further info on Ganesha. What I read was printed by a company called Veda that makes jewelry. I saw a bunch of necklaces with god/desses on them but could not find my favorite. I consider myself a Shakta, but one who does not continue to battle. Like Xena, I'm a former warrior princess. As Ammachi says, there is no point attacking the other: s/he is but a reflection of oneself. I'm glad to hear about the South Indian story. It does sound like Ganesh maybe the only Hindu model of a male who knows that the power dynamics underlying traditional marriage and family roles do not allow for true and full human being. I guess the humor of the battle of the sexes between Shiva and Shakti is like the old Billy Jean King / Bobby Riggs tennis match. Yes, they were the Shiva and Shakti of American sports history... Maybe Ganesha is the one for you. I'm referring to the search you told me about, and your work in gay rights. According to Jung, an elephant may be a symbol of the self. And according to an interpretation of the meaning of Ganesha that appears in Eric Ackroyd's A Dictionary of Dreams, "Particularly for anyone acquainted with Indian religious ideas or iconography, an elephant may represent some power, available within you, to clear away whatever prevents you from achieving your goal." I will check out the Himalayan Academy. I like that your statue of the Ardhanareshwari has the Shakti side with two arms, also. Is she on the left or right? I'd like to find one with her on the right based on what I've read on the Ardhareshwari page on the Shakti Sadhana homepage. Even the side placement is meant to denote power. However, it's like the handedness issue: how humans have thought the left hand to be lesser than the right. So unable humans have been to accept the totality of their being.... Namaste, Mary Ann , kalipadma@j... wrote: > > > On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 04:52:32 -0000 "Mary Ann" > <maryann@m...> writes: > > > Hello Len/Kalipadma: Do you have an Ardhanareshwari in your > > collection of bronzes? If so, where did you get it? > > Yes, but the store is no longer in existence. Although the statue is > pretty, it shows Parvati's half with two (!) arms, to preserve bilateral > symmetry, I guess... > > Contact <The Himalayan Academy> in Hawaii, who are affiliated with the > publishers of "Hinduism Today" magazine. They are Shaiva in orientation, > and at one point were selling a nice Ardhanarishvara bronze. > > > > I just learned yesterday why Ganesh has an elephant head. > > Maybe everyone else on the list already knows this? Apparently, > > one day, Parvati was taking a bath and for some reason > > stationed hers and Shiva's son Ganesh outside of the bathroom > > with instructions not to let Shiva in. When Shiva wanted to find > > Parvati and Ganesh wouldn't let him pass, Shiva took out his > > trident and cut Ganesh's head off. Parvati, upset by this act, > > turned herself into Kali. The upshot is that she demanded that > > Shiva bring Ganesh back to life and Shiva went running out and > > the first head he found (I guess he also had to kill an elephant) > > he put onto Ganesh. > > > > Just another story of hetero-patriachal bliss. > > > > 1. Parvati created Ganesha parthenogenically, without Shiva's > participation, sculpting him out of scurf and dried sandalpaste from her > body and breathing life into it/ him. He was asked to keep intruders out > of Parvati's chamber while she was bathing (Shiva's mischievous > companions, the Ganas, used to sneak in to catch a peek!) > > 2. So Ganesha did not know that Shiva was his adoptive "father," nor > did Shiva know that Ganesha was Parvati's son when they did battle. > > 3. In most versions, it was Vishnu who offered to replace Ganesha's > head, and chose a baby elephant sleeping with his head facing North (an > inauspicious position) to be the donor. As God of Change, Shiva could > not return Ganesha to the same form he was before his beheading. > > 4. Parvati ensured that Ganesha would garner great honor as commander > of the Ganas, by his being invoked before any undertaking to remove any > obstacles. > > Bear in mind that there is traditionally (humorous?) badinage between > Shaivas (worshippers of Shiva) and Shaktas (worshippers of the Goddess) > over which deity is more powerful, who has greater prestige, and so > forth. In the origin of Ganesha, Shiva tries to control his wife > Parvati, but she ends up in superior position, with ultimate command over > Shiva's Ganas through her devoted son Ganesha. > > For what it's worth, in South India, Ganesha is so impressed by his > parents' "hetero-patriarchal [married] bliss," he vows never to marry, > himself, and is a "confirmed bachelor." All the Goddesses love spending > time with Ganesha, because he's a witty speaker, knows all the latest > fashions, is a good dancer, lends a sympathetic ear, and makes no sexual > demands on them. I know men like that, myself, don't you?... > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > ______________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2003 Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 I cannot resist joining this exchanges. I had a discussion once with a Ganesha Bhakta, and he told me that to him Ganesha is a complete Deity. Complete in a sense that Ganesha have the remarkable Shakti & Shiva attributes. Once we have a lady who came to our group saying that she "sees" Ganesha as a Female. Apparently she went to another group and some members there "ridicule" her. Then few weeks later when I went back for the Annual Shri Mariamman Adipuram, somebody handed me a copy of magazine from India and in the front copy is a picture of Vigneshwari. So which means this lady is not imagining but her perception of Ganesha as a Female is real. If anybody interested to read about Vigneshwari : http://www.shaktisadhana.org/Vigneshwari.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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