Guest guest Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 My sincere greetings to all Shakti-Sadhana members, I posted a query the other day which, did not evoke any response. I am putting it in a different way now. If I am correct, during Rigveda- the most ancient scripture-people worshipped Sun and other natural elements like Fire, Water, Earth and Space. They worshipped what they saw and what they could comprehend as something beyond their imagination. Those days they did not worship forms. Later some sages and great meditators brought the very force in the forms so as to give the ordinary folks a paradigm of what God is like. The forms -the color, the shape,be it faminine, masculine or what they wore- all had great significance. Not intending to hurt anybody's feelings, it is my conviction that all the forms that we worship are our own creations( I am talking about the forms and not what they represent).The forms are our own efforts to describe/define that limitless ever expanding omnipotent, omnipresent consciousness. So what I am trying to ask is that can one attain moksha with his own creations? Isn't the creation(the form) a step/path to have a glimpse and finally communion with that ongoing supreme consciousness? Isn't there a need to move beyond forms and experience the supreme consciousness itself? I am eager to hear from you all. Regards, Somesh India Matrimony: Find your partner online.Post your profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 My immediate response to this is that when you die, you move beyond form. Since everyone born dies, maybe that makes moving beyond form a "need," but why aspire to death while living? Live! , somesh siddapura math <somesh6666> wrote: > My sincere greetings to all Shakti-Sadhana members, > > I posted a query the other day which, did not evoke any response. I am putting it in a different way now. > > If I am correct, during Rigveda- the most ancient scripture-people worshipped Sun and other natural elements like Fire, Water, Earth and Space. They worshipped what they saw and what they could comprehend as something beyond their imagination. Those days they did not worship forms. Later some sages and great meditators brought the very force in the forms so as to give the ordinary folks a paradigm of what God is like. The forms -the color, the shape,be it faminine, masculine or what they wore- all had great significance. > > Not intending to hurt anybody's feelings, it is my conviction that all the forms that we worship are our own creations( I am talking about the forms and not what they represent).The forms are our own efforts to describe/define that limitless ever expanding omnipotent, omnipresent consciousness. > > So what I am trying to ask is that can one attain moksha with his own creations? Isn't the creation(the form) a step/path to have a glimpse and finally communion with that ongoing supreme consciousness? Isn't there a need to move beyond forms and experience the supreme consciousness itself? > > I am eager to hear from you all. > > Regards, > > Somesh > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online.Post your profile. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 You speak of a force. Is it not possible that this force (I think you mean the Supreme Consciousness) reveals itself to sincere devotees? Such people may then have what is called "a vision". And when this Supreme Consciousness then takes on a particular form according to the mental dispositions of the devotee (which also include cultural background), we have the different forms of the gods and goddesses of Hinduism (and other religions). This does not mean that these forms are creations of those who describe them in the scriptures, it just means that God (or the Goddess) has choosen to reveal himself (herself) in those forms in order to give the human beings the possibility to communicate with him (her). You see, not everyone has the necessary mental dispossitions for meditation about the formless Nirguna-Brahman, most people need a form they can concentrate on. Mary Ann <maryann wrote: My immediate response to this is that when you die, you move beyond form. Since everyone born dies, maybe that makes moving beyond form a "need," but why aspire to death while living? Live! , somesh siddapura math <somesh6666> wrote: > My sincere greetings to all Shakti-Sadhana members, > > I posted a query the other day which, did not evoke any response. I am putting it in a different way now. > > If I am correct, during Rigveda- the most ancient scripture-people worshipped Sun and other natural elements like Fire, Water, Earth and Space. They worshipped what they saw and what they could comprehend as something beyond their imagination. Those days they did not worship forms. Later some sages and great meditators brought the very force in the forms so as to give the ordinary folks a paradigm of what God is like. The forms -the color, the shape,be it faminine, masculine or what they wore- all had great significance. > > Not intending to hurt anybody's feelings, it is my conviction that all the forms that we worship are our own creations( I am talking about the forms and not what they represent).The forms are our own efforts to describe/define that limitless ever expanding omnipotent, omnipresent consciousness. > > So what I am trying to ask is that can one attain moksha with his own creations? Isn't the creation(the form) a step/path to have a glimpse and finally communion with that ongoing supreme consciousness? Isn't there a need to move beyond forms and experience the supreme consciousness itself? > > I am eager to hear from you all. > > Regards, > > Somesh > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online.Post your profile. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 We human beings live in a milieu of forms. We aspire to attain the highest reality, the Formless. Are we like Superman that we can leap tall buildings with a single bound? Well, maybe some of you can, I can't speak for everyone. But I think most of us find it more practical to ascend by means of a ladder of some sort. The Kabbalah's Tree of Life diagrams one such ladder, steps gradually ascending from this world of forms to the Supernal formless ultimate divinity. The seven heavens of Prophet Muhammad's Mi`raj (ascent), the concentric ascending levels of Heaven in Dante's Divine Comedy, and Jacob's dream of the ladder connecting earth and Heaven all echo the Tantric ladder of the cakras from muladhara step by step up to brahmarandhra. A spiritual aspirant may find it works better to take things one step at a time, because if you try to gain the ultimate all at once, you may fall short and then become discouraged from trying again. But if you really are a spiritual Superman, then go for it! An alternative, skeptical point of view comes from Kabir, who says: Where are you going? There's no place to go to. Right here is where it's at. You're here already. Sahaja. , somesh siddapura math <somesh6666> wrote: > My sincere greetings to all Shakti-Sadhana members, > > I posted a query the other day which, did not evoke any response. I am putting it in a different way now. > > If I am correct, during Rigveda- the most ancient scripture-people worshipped Sun and other natural elements like Fire, Water, Earth and Space. They worshipped what they saw and what they could comprehend as something beyond their imagination. Those days they did not worship forms. Later some sages and great meditators brought the very force in the forms so as to give the ordinary folks a paradigm of what God is like. The forms -the color, the shape,be it faminine, masculine or what they wore- all had great significance. > > Not intending to hurt anybody's feelings, it is my conviction that all the forms that we worship are our own creations( I am talking about the forms and not what they represent).The forms are our own efforts to describe/define that limitless ever expanding omnipotent, omnipresent consciousness. > > So what I am trying to ask is that can one attain moksha with his own creations? Isn't the creation(the form) a step/path to have a glimpse and finally communion with that ongoing supreme consciousness? Isn't there a need to move beyond forms and experience the supreme consciousness itself? > > I am eager to hear from you all. > > Regards, > > Somesh > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online.Post your profile. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 DEAR FREIND.., though, am in no ways proficient enought to respond to your mail guess very rare would anybody be here) as its only whos has REALISED would be knowing the actual truth... rest is wht i/we might have heard or analysed.... anyways.., firstly, friend, though i gree completely that its our visulisations which we hv given names to GOD/DESS but there can be an argument & that is the siddhas/realised ones who have gven us these forms , had REALISED GOD/DESS in the specific form , thus we can say , that GOD/DESS himself/herself/itself took this form for the bhakta... while on contrary .. i too personally agree that its not only impossible to bind THE SUPREME IN ONE FORM BUT EVEN IN GUNA/GUNAS/CHARACTERISTICS .we have to remeber that not only general life but even SPIRITUALITY is full of paradoxical truths. well,2nd argument i have learnt is , its not easy for every soul to meditate on LIMITLESS thus comes the form of DEITY to help one meditate & then the path from FORM TO FORMLESS . basicaly what i beleive is its REALISATION i stress REALISATION ...its not acheived but realised & realisation comes on its own thus hat might be possible those meditating on FORM without realising would get towards fomless ... as to MOKSHA .. lol, well can't comment nething except what my brain could tell me.. newaz MOKSHA IS NOT MY GAME O WANTS TO BE ONE WITH BHAGWATEE/MAHAMAYA /SUPREME ONE .... that would finish the essence ofrelation for me .. i would love to take births over & again , with every irth much deeper love feelings for BHAGWATEES feet & play & enjoy her maya :P:P .. hey nothing offensive towards you pls regards, JAI AMBEY MAHAKALI SHREE KAAL BHAIRAVYA NAMAH, rajat , somesh siddapura math <somesh6666> wrote: > My sincere greetings to all Shakti-Sadhana members, > > I posted a query the other day which, did not evoke any response. I am putting it in a different way now. > > If I am correct, during Rigveda- the most ancient scripture-people worshipped Sun and other natural elements like Fire, Water, Earth and Space. They worshipped what they saw and what they could comprehend as something beyond their imagination. Those days they did not worship forms. Later some sages and great meditators brought the very force in the forms so as to give the ordinary folks a paradigm of what God is like. The forms -the color, the shape,be it faminine, masculine or what they wore- all had great significance. > > Not intending to hurt anybody's feelings, it is my conviction that all the forms that we worship are our own creations( I am talking about the forms and not what they represent).The forms are our own efforts to describe/define that limitless ever expanding omnipotent, omnipresent consciousness. > > So what I am trying to ask is that can one attain moksha with his own creations? Isn't the creation(the form) a step/path to have a glimpse and finally communion with that ongoing supreme consciousness? Isn't there a need to move beyond forms and experience the supreme consciousness itself? > > I am eager to hear from you all. > > Regards, > > Somesh > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online.Post your profile. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Dear Somesh, I am really happy to read your query and the answer of Mary ann. True,there is a need to go beyond forms of worship and to identify oneself with the Para Brahman. Yet it is not easy for the lesser intellect and the commoner. Though Mary has suggested Omar Khayyam's philosophy, it is also a part of Srividya, and one can achieve what one is, just by knowing thy self. As not many people will understand the true depth of this query, and its answer, I am not explaining further. The vedas have suggested Murthy worship (Forms) for a human being to realise himself in the process that is all. A guru can only help the seeker the ultimate truth of self.Moksha is only a stage for you to enjoy and rest and again take rebirth, as per your karma. Ton of love, by the Grace of Hamsananda nada, Sri Gurupadaravindarenu, Shankara: PS:You can ask me if you have further doubts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Greetings Neha & Rajat, your opinion that was expressed was really great. it reflects your mental maturity and devotion towards Mother. Your words and sentenses are conveying your spiritual status. i was really very happy to read your explanation. Thanks for it Anil Neha & Rajat <younghornycpl wrote: DEAR FREIND.., though, am in no ways proficient enought to respond to your mail guess very rare would anybody be here) as its only whos has REALISED would be knowing the actual truth... rest is wht i/we might have heard or analysed.... anyways.., firstly, friend, though i gree completely that its our visulisations which we hv given names to GOD/DESS but there can be an argument & that is the siddhas/realised ones who have gven us these forms , had REALISED GOD/DESS in the specific form , thus we can say , that GOD/DESS himself/herself/itself took this form for the bhakta... while on contrary .. i too personally agree that its not only impossible to bind THE SUPREME IN ONE FORM BUT EVEN IN GUNA/GUNAS/CHARACTERISTICS .we have to remeber that not only general life but even SPIRITUALITY is full of paradoxical truths. well,2nd argument i have learnt is , its not easy for every soul to meditate on LIMITLESS thus comes the form of DEITY to help one meditate & then the path from FORM TO FORMLESS . basicaly what i beleive is its REALISATION i stress REALISATION ...its not acheived but realised & realisation comes on its own thus hat might be possible those meditating on FORM without realising would get towards fomless ... as to MOKSHA .. lol, well can't comment nething except what my brain could tell me.. newaz MOKSHA IS NOT MY GAME O WANTS TO BE ONE WITH BHAGWATEE/MAHAMAYA /SUPREME ONE .... that would finish the essence ofrelation for me .. i would love to take births over & again , with every irth much deeper love feelings for BHAGWATEES feet & play & enjoy her maya :P:P .. hey nothing offensive towards you pls regards, JAI AMBEY MAHAKALI SHREE KAAL BHAIRAVYA NAMAH, rajat , somesh siddapura math <somesh6666> wrote: > My sincere greetings to all Shakti-Sadhana members, > > I posted a query the other day which, did not evoke any response. I am putting it in a different way now. > > If I am correct, during Rigveda- the most ancient scripture-people worshipped Sun and other natural elements like Fire, Water, Earth and Space. They worshipped what they saw and what they could comprehend as something beyond their imagination. Those days they did not worship forms. Later some sages and great meditators brought the very force in the forms so as to give the ordinary folks a paradigm of what God is like. The forms -the color, the shape,be it faminine, masculine or what they wore- all had great significance. > > Not intending to hurt anybody's feelings, it is my conviction that all the forms that we worship are our own creations( I am talking about the forms and not what they represent).The forms are our own efforts to describe/define that limitless ever expanding omnipotent, omnipresent consciousness. > > So what I am trying to ask is that can one attain moksha with his own creations? Isn't the creation(the form) a step/path to have a glimpse and finally communion with that ongoing supreme consciousness? Isn't there a need to move beyond forms and experience the supreme consciousness itself? > > I am eager to hear from you all. > > Regards, > > Somesh > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online.Post your profile. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Om Somesh Siddapura Math <<So what I am trying to ask is that can one attain moksha with his own creations? Isn't the creation(the form) a step/path to have a glimpse and finally communion with that ongoing supreme consciousness? Isn't there a need to move beyond forms and experience the supreme consciousness itself?>> Yes there is a need and a necessity eventually to move beyond all names and forms and experience Brahman directly. But, at the same time, names and forms such as a spiritual path, provide the means to purify one's consciousness so that one is able to move beyond nama/rupa to Brahman. A spiritual path develops the subtle consciousness, tames the ego, moves one past ignorance, desire and aversion and even past attachment to life itself. At that point, one becomes ONE, self becomes Self. Perhaps one can attain moksha with his own creations but only if he/she eventually gives up those creations. The way will be difficult is one relies on his/her own creations and does not have a Guru. Without a Guru, failure is always close at hand because ego is rampant. One can experiment with various ways of establishing his/her own spiritual practices, but the likelihood is that without a Guru one will not stick to one path nor go into it deeply enough to arrrive at a direct experience of Brahman. OM Namah Sivaya Omprem > , somesh siddapura math > <somesh6666> wrote: > > My sincere greetings to all Shakti-Sadhana members, > > > > I posted a query the other day which, did not evoke any response. > I am putting it in a different way now. > > > > If I am correct, during Rigveda- the most ancient scripture-people > worshipped Sun and other natural elements like Fire, Water, Earth > and Space. They worshipped what they saw and what they could > comprehend as something beyond their imagination. Those days they > did not worship forms. Later some sages and great meditators brought > the very force in the forms so as to give the ordinary folks a > paradigm of what God is like. The forms -the color, the shape,be it > faminine, masculine or what they wore- all had great significance. > > > > Not intending to hurt anybody's feelings, it is my conviction that > all the forms that we worship are our own creations( I am talking > about the forms and not what they represent).The forms are our own > efforts to describe/define that limitless ever expanding omnipotent, > omnipresent consciousness. > > > > So what I am trying to ask is that can one attain moksha with his > own creations? Isn't the creation(the form) a step/path to have a > glimpse and finally communion with that ongoing supreme > consciousness? Isn't there a need to move beyond forms and > experience the supreme consciousness itself? > > > > I am eager to hear from you all. > > > > Regards, > > > > Somesh > > > > > > India Matrimony: Find your partner online.Post your profile. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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