Guest guest Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Namaste, With regard to the 5'M's... 'Mamsa, in the crude sense, is meat- eating; in the subtle sense, control of the tongue or speech. Similarly, Matsya or fish eating - in a subtle sense – means the opening of the Vishuddha Chakra. Madya, or drinking wine, means drinking the divine nectar from the Sahasrara Chakra. Mudra, or use of crude symbols, became the use of subtle symbols. And Maethuna or sex relations - in the subtle sense - means unity of the unit and consciousness, or the mystic union of Shiva (consciousness) and Shakti (the creative principle)'. Addapted from 'TANTRA Yoga & Meditation, P.R. SARKAR'S CONTRIBUTION TO TANTRA' http://norge.amps.org/ideologi/meditasjon/tantra.htm The author has also suggested that the 5'M's stem from a reintroduction of Tantra into India, from China; there could well be parallels between the philosophy of the Yin and the Yang, and Shiva- Shakti. I do not associate wine with India, but with the Mediterranean; I have heard that the proto-Vedic settlers to the Indus Valley drank alcohol (and ate meat) but the details are lacking. Can anyone enlighten me please, on the subject of wine from Mediaeval India? In my own mind, I am fairly convinced that the 'gross' identity of the 5'M's purposely conceals an esoteric symbolism. Jai Ma! m6 , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > The primitive basis of the Tantric Pañca-mākara or > Pañca-tat= > tva – > the use of madya (wine), māmsa (meat), matsya (fish), mudra > (cereals) and maithuna (sexual intercourse) – can be established on > investigation. Sexual rites related to fertility magic are common to > all forms of primitive religion, as Frazer and Briffault have > wonderfully demonstrated. Erotic practices associated with the > goddess cult are older than the Tantric and Taoist texts themselves. > > This also holds good in the case of the rites of wine and fish. > Thanks to the research of Briffault, we can now easily connect the > use of wine, as a pre-condition of sexual intercourse, with > fertility magic. Fish is also closely associated with matriarchal > beliefs as a fertility symbol. Aphrodite, the fish goddess, was > worshiped as the bestower of all animal and vegetative fruitfulness, > and – under this aspect – especially as a goddess of women. The > relation between fish and the Mother Goddess is a very common > feature of primitive religion. > > (Excerpted from Bhattacharyya, Narendra Nath, "The Indian Mother > Goddess," 2nd > Edition. South Asia Books, New Delhi, 1977.) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2003 Report Share Posted September 19, 2003 " When the yogi can reverse his tongue and touch this fleshy organ (it is a part of Mudra in yoga) it results in evolving and bestowing him higher yogic strenghts to progress him to higher regions." > > Are you referring to Kechari Mudra ? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 Namaste, We need to consider carefully what has been discussed. The 5'M's generally concern breaking taboos - this is not unknown in Hinduism: nocturnal meditation within a cremation ground, for example, is a form of Kali Sadhana which breaks taboos regarding bodily pollution. Why is this done? The psychological shock involved, in breaking social taboos, is possibly utilised - consciously or unconsciously - by the worshipper, to attain a state of higher awareness - in this case, an exalted awareness of Maha Kali. But if the Panchamakara or 5'M's are about breaking taboo, what of 'Mudra', which is often rendered as 'parched grain'; this in turn, has been seen as an oblique reference to the ingestion of the ergot fungus, http://hindusaktha.freeservers.com/facesofmaa.html I might tactfully suggest that someone partaking of both alcohol and the hallucinogenic ergot, might be a little beyond the fifth 'M', Maethuna or ritual sex - or certainly of deriving much in the way of metaphysical insights from the experience? Alcohol, meat and wine are strictly taboo items for the vegetarian Hindu; grain certainly isn't a taboo item, in itself; and neither is the sexual act - there is no real consistency in these 5 items, in relation to the so-called 'left hand path' of Tantra, it seems to me. We know that Tantra is an esoteric system - it is accordingly far more likely that what we have here, in the Panchamakara, is a coded allusion to something else. Is it possible, then, that many - especially, but not exclusively, in the West - have interpreted these perhaps coded allusions, concerning secret metaphysical techniques, literally? And after all, wasn't that exactly the purpose of those who formulated the code, and thus distanced the sacred, from the profane? m6 , anildivine <anildivine> wrote: > exactly. thanks for adding. which i have left > > sheetalika <sheetalika> wrote:" When the yogi can reverse his tongue and touch this fleshy organ > (it is a part of Mudra in yoga) it results in evolving and bestowing > him higher yogic strenghts to progress him to higher regions." > > > > Are you referring to Kechari Mudra ? > > Thank you > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2003 Report Share Posted September 20, 2003 , anildivine <anildivine> wrote: > In our human body ther are only two organs devoid of bone. One of such is situated in our throat region composed of Meat. This organ has its own significance in yoga. One is the tongue ... and the other? Are you sure you haven't forgotten something? What about the breasts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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