Guest guest Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 is there no population in india or any hindu country which has tattoos? is there no justification under any form of hinduism nor history for this art form? are you saying in the history of india, nobody has ever had tattoos, and that the origin of this is totally from other origins? i find that very hard to believe, but if you insist it is so, who am i to argue ... peace, love and poetic license, cathie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Fascinating! May I share these thoughts / this info, with another group ? In a message dated 9/22/03 3:48:10 PM Mountain Daylight Time, paulie-rainbow writes: > Namaste, > > The woman and I found this article: > > http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2001/7-8/38-41_tatoo.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Namaste, A woman that I work with is working on a school paper, the subject is tattoos in America, Polynesia and in Hinduism. We both found a single article that mentions tattoos and Hinduism, but nothing else. I am unfamiliar with tattoos related to Hinduism and was originally skeptical of any link there, but that one article did lend some credence to the connection. Does anyone in this forum have any other resources or ideas on this. I am not looking for information on the fact that many modern westerners choose Hindu symbols for their tattoos. There's a lot on that too. I deeply appreciate your help. Blessings, pr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 I think tattoos have no tradition in India. My opinion is based on the fact that when one gets a tattoo, the needle penetrates the skin. This is a violation of purity rules of Hinduism, I am sure. For instance, people in India never wore clothes that were penetrated by needles or cut by scissors until the time when the Muslims had become a force in the cultural life of India. This was because the material would have become ritually impure had it been "violated" by a needle or a scissor. So people wore only drapped cloth until they came in contact with the tailored cloth of the Muslim invaders. When this holds true for cloth, it should also hold true for the human body. So I think there cannot be a tradition of making tattoos in India. The only possibility of a tattoo-tradition in India would be among Adivasis (tribal people), Dalits, and out-cast. prainbow61 <paulie-rainbow wrote: Namaste, A woman that I work with is working on a school paper, the subject is tattoos in America, Polynesia and in Hinduism. We both found a single article that mentions tattoos and Hinduism, but nothing else. I am unfamiliar with tattoos related to Hinduism and was originally skeptical of any link there, but that one article did lend some credence to the connection. Does anyone in this forum have any other resources or ideas on this. I am not looking for information on the fact that many modern westerners choose Hindu symbols for their tattoos. There's a lot on that too. I deeply appreciate your help. Blessings, pr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Namaste ! You write " i think tattoos have no tradition in india." Not true. In the olden days , this custom was prevalent in royal families. When a child was born, it was customary to draw a tatoo on any part of the child's body so that in case the child got kidnapped , it would be easier to identify the child when found. This was because of rivalry among different clans and there was a;ways a threat to male heir to the throne being kidnapped. In sree Vaishnavism, also , the daughter-in-0law of the house has to have "shankuchakkram" (symbiols of lord Vishnu) tattoed on her arms and then only the orthodox mother0in0law will allow the daughter0in- law to cook in the family kitchen. A fading custom but still prevalent in Sri Rangam. of course, the gypsies ( kurathis) as they are called in south india and the nomadic tribes in Rajasthan called LOHARINS (the iron workers)- body piercing and tattoing was very common. While we can blame many things on islamic invasion, i don;t think we can blame the moghuls for this. , raw_mango <raw_mango> wrote: > I think tattoos have no tradition in India. > My opinion is based on the fact that when one gets a tattoo, the needle penetrates the skin. This is a violation of purity rules of Hinduism, I am sure. > For instance, people in India never wore clothes that were penetrated by needles or cut by scissors until the time when the Muslims had become a force in the cultural life of India. This was because the material would have become ritually impure had it been "violated" by a needle or a scissor. So people wore only drapped cloth until they came in contact with the tailored cloth of the Muslim invaders. > When this holds true for cloth, it should also hold true for the human body. > So I think there cannot be a tradition of making tattoos in India. > The only possibility of a tattoo-tradition in India would be among Adivasis (tribal people), Dalits, and out-cast. > > prainbow61 <paulie-rainbow@u...> wrote: > Namaste, > > A woman that I work with is working on a school paper, the subject is > tattoos in America, Polynesia and in Hinduism. > > We both found a single article that mentions tattoos and Hinduism, > but nothing else. > > I am unfamiliar with tattoos related to Hinduism and was originally > skeptical of any link there, but that one article did lend some > credence to the connection. > > Does anyone in this forum have any other resources or ideas on this. > > I am not looking for information on the fact that many modern > westerners choose Hindu symbols for their tattoos. There's a lot on > that too. > > I deeply appreciate your help. > > Blessings, > > pr > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 Namaste, The woman and I found this article: http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2001/7-8/38-41_tatoo.shtml Which says in part: "Among the most devoutly tattooed groups anywhere is the community of Ramnaamis. Scattered across the Indian states of Bihar and Madhya Pradesh, this sect of untouchables found refuge from harm in their distinctive tattoos the name "Ram" repeated in Sanskrit on practically every inch of skin, even on the tongue and inside the lips. Ramnaamis began their extraordinary custom during the Hindu reformist movement of the 19th century when they angered the upper- caste brahmins by adopting brahminical customs. To protect themselves against the brahmins' wrath, the Ramnaamis tattooed the name of Lord Ram on their bodies. About 1,500 strong today, the Ramnaami community still practices this painful rite, which is as much a demonstration of devotion as a talisman against persecution. "… Some of the most elaborate tattoo patterns anywhere are on the women of the Ribari tribe of Kutch, the very region in northwest India just devastated by an earthquake. It is one of the places to which the Pandavas were exiled during the Mahabharata. The members of the nomadic Ribari tribe live as their ancestors did; their tattoos being tangible symbols of the people's strong spirit and concern with faith and survival." Namaste, pr , SophiasDream@a... wrote: > is there no population in india or any hindu country which has tattoos? is there no justification under any form of hinduism nor history for this art form? are you saying in the history of india, nobody has ever had tattoos, and that the origin of this is totally from other origins? i find that very hard to believe, but if you insist it is so, who am i to argue ... > > peace, love and poetic license, > cathie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2003 Report Share Posted September 22, 2003 pr, you beat me to it, but I was just about to say I saw a picture in National Geographic many years ago of an old woman near the headwaters of the Ganges who had "Rama Rama Rama Rama....." tattooed all over her face. , "prainbow61" <paulie- rainbow@u...> wrote: > Namaste, > > The woman and I found this article: > > http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2001/7-8/38-41_tatoo.shtml > > Which says in part: > "Among the most devoutly tattooed groups anywhere is the community of > Ramnaamis. Scattered across the Indian states of Bihar and Madhya > Pradesh, this sect of untouchables found refuge from harm in their > distinctive tattoos the name "Ram" repeated in Sanskrit on > practically every inch of skin, even on the tongue and inside the > lips. Ramnaamis began their extraordinary custom during the Hindu > reformist movement of the 19th century when they angered the upper- > caste brahmins by adopting brahminical customs. To protect themselves > against the brahmins' wrath, the Ramnaamis tattooed the name of Lord > Ram on their bodies. About 1,500 strong today, the Ramnaami community > still practices this painful rite, which is as much a demonstration > of devotion as a talisman against persecution. > > "… Some of the most elaborate tattoo patterns anywhere are on the > women of the Ribari tribe of Kutch, the very region in northwest > India just devastated by an earthquake. It is one of the places to > which the Pandavas were exiled during the Mahabharata. The members of > the nomadic Ribari tribe live as their ancestors did; their tattoos > being tangible symbols of the people's strong spirit and concern with > faith and survival." > > Namaste, > > pr > > > , SophiasDream@a... wrote: > > is there no population in india or any hindu country which has > tattoos? is there no justification under any form of hinduism nor > history for this art form? are you saying in the history of india, > nobody has ever had tattoos, and that the origin of this is totally > from other origins? i find that very hard to believe, but if you > insist it is so, who am i to argue ... > > > > peace, love and poetic license, > > cathie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 Just off the top of my head, I would try to research tattoos in India, Pakistan, and other countries with substantial Hindu populations, and see what the connection might be with Hinduism. It may be cultural, rather than religious. hth, Kay - prainbow61 Monday, September 22, 2003 3:26 PM hinduism and tattoos Namaste, A woman that I work with is working on a school paper, the subject is tattoos in America, Polynesia and in Hinduism. We both found a single article that mentions tattoos and Hinduism, but nothing else. I am unfamiliar with tattoos related to Hinduism and was originally skeptical of any link there, but that one article did lend some credence to the connection. Does anyone in this forum have any other resources or ideas on this. I am not looking for information on the fact that many modern westerners choose Hindu symbols for their tattoos. There's a lot on that too. I deeply appreciate your help. Blessings, pr Sponsor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 I have seen photographs of tribal and low-casre women in India with tattoos on their faces. One woman had "Ram" in Sanskrit repeated all over her face! Naturally, the higher castes wouldn't indulge in such practices. Bit those who had lost caste (like Tantrik practitioners) might. Some skin markings don't involve piercing the skin. Note the popularity (in both East and West) of <mehendi>, where the skin is dyed with henna paste. These "tattoos" aren't permanemnt, but they often last for several weeks. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:53:31 -0700 (PDT) raw_mango <raw_mango writes: > I think tattoos have no tradition in India. > My opinion is based on the fact that when one gets a tattoo, the > needle penetrates the skin. This is a violation of purity rules of > Hinduism, I am sure. > For instance, people in India never wore clothes that were > penetrated by needles or cut by scissors until the time when the > Muslims had become a force in the cultural life of India. This was > because the material would have become ritually impure had it been > "violated" by a needle or a scissor. So people wore only drapped > cloth until they came in contact with the tailored cloth of the > Muslim invaders. > When this holds true for cloth, it should also hold true for the > human body. > So I think there cannot be a tradition of making tattoos in India. > The only possibility of a tattoo-tradition in India would be among > Adivasis (tribal people), Dalits, and out-cast. > ______________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2003 Report Share Posted September 23, 2003 Namaskar, You are right, in the saurashtra regionof Gujarat, many ladies & gents have tatoos made on their hand. The cast called Rabari , Bahrvad & Charan they ,make such tatoos in ther hands. In the olden days such tatoos were made in their childhood time duirng some melas( fairs), now in the young generartion the tatoos are rare. But if they make its for fun. Regards dhiren pania peNkaLai_kâtalikkiRên <penkatali wrote: peNkaLai_kâtalikkiRên Tue, 23 Sep 2003 00:35:54 -0000 Re: hinduism and tattoos pr, you beat me to it, but I was just about to say I saw a picture in National Geographic many years ago of an old woman near the headwaters of the Ganges who had "Rama Rama Rama Rama....." tattooed all over her face. , "prainbow61" <paulie- rainbow@u...> wrote: > Namaste, > > The woman and I found this article: > > http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2001/7-8/38-41_tatoo.shtml > > Which says in part: > "Among the most devoutly tattooed groups anywhere is the community of > Ramnaamis. Scattered across the Indian states of Bihar and Madhya > Pradesh, this sect of untouchables found refuge from harm in their > distinctive tattoos the name "Ram" repeated in Sanskrit on > practically every inch of skin, even on the tongue and inside the > lips. Ramnaamis began their extraordinary custom during the Hindu > reformist movement of the 19th century when they angered the upper- > caste brahmins by adopting brahminical customs. To protect themselves > against the brahmins' wrath, the Ramnaamis tattooed the name of Lord > Ram on their bodies. About 1,500 strong today, the Ramnaami community > still practices this painful rite, which is as much a demonstration > of devotion as a talisman against persecution. > > "… Some of the most elaborate tattoo patterns anywhere are on the > women of the Ribari tribe of Kutch, the very region in northwest > India just devastated by an earthquake. It is one of the places to > which the Pandavas were exiled during the Mahabharata. The members of > the nomadic Ribari tribe live as their ancestors did; their tattoos > being tangible symbols of the people's strong spirit and concern with > faith and survival." > > Namaste, > > pr > > > , SophiasDream@a... wrote: > > is there no population in india or any hindu country which has > tattoos? is there no justification under any form of hinduism nor > history for this art form? are you saying in the history of india, > nobody has ever had tattoos, and that the origin of this is totally > from other origins? i find that very hard to believe, but if you > insist it is so, who am i to argue ... > > > > peace, love and poetic license, > > cathie India Matrimony: Find your partner online.Post your profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2003 Report Share Posted September 24, 2003 I have a book on order from Amazon about the Ramnamis titled, "Rapt in the Name." I'll report on it when I get it and can take a look. Jai Kaalii Maa --Jami --- peNkaLai_kâtalikkiRên <penkatali wrote: > pr, you beat me to it, but I was just about to say I > saw a picture > in National Geographic many years ago of an old > woman near the > headwaters of the Ganges who had "Rama Rama Rama > Rama....." tattooed > all over her face. > > , "prainbow61" > <paulie- > rainbow@u...> wrote: > > Namaste, > > > > The woman and I found this article: > > > > > http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2001/7-8/38-41_tatoo.shtml > > > > Which says in part: > > "Among the most devoutly tattooed groups anywhere > is the community > of > > Ramnaamis. Scattered across the Indian states of > Bihar and Madhya > > Pradesh, this sect of untouchables found refuge > from harm in their > > distinctive tattoos the name "Ram" repeated in > Sanskrit on > > practically every inch of skin, even on the tongue > and inside the > > lips. Ramnaamis began their extraordinary custom > during the Hindu > > reformist movement of the 19th century when they > angered the upper- > > caste brahmins by adopting brahminical customs. To > protect > themselves > > against the brahmins' wrath, the Ramnaamis > tattooed the name of > Lord > > Ram on their bodies. About 1,500 strong today, the > Ramnaami > community > > still practices this painful rite, which is as > much a > demonstration > > of devotion as a talisman against persecution. > > > > "… Some of the most elaborate tattoo patterns > anywhere are on the > > women of the Ribari tribe of Kutch, the very > region in northwest > > India just devastated by an earthquake. It is one > of the places to > > which the Pandavas were exiled during the > Mahabharata. The members > of > > the nomadic Ribari tribe live as their ancestors > did; their > tattoos > > being tangible symbols of the people's strong > spirit and concern > with > > faith and survival." > > > > Namaste, > > > > pr > > > > > > , > SophiasDream@a... wrote: > > > is there no population in india or any hindu > country which has > > tattoos? is there no justification under any form > of hinduism nor > > history for this art form? are you saying in the > history of > india, > > nobody has ever had tattoos, and that the origin > of this is > totally > > from other origins? i find that very hard to > believe, but if you > > insist it is so, who am i to argue ... > > > > > > peace, love and poetic license, > > > cathie > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 Namaste, I just want to thank everyone who has given feedback on this. It is so fascinating and really expanding my thoughts and understanding about the incredible breadth of Indian culture(s). I wish that I could go back to India. I never lose my awe, my surprise, my curiosity about her. prainbow , Jami Blakeley <jami108> wrote: > I have a book on order from Amazon about the Ramnamis > titled, "Rapt in the Name." I'll report on it when I > get it and can take a look. > > Jai Kaalii Maa > --Jami > > > --- peNkaLai_kâtalikkiRên <penkatali> wrote: > > pr, you beat me to it, but I was just about to say I > > saw a picture > > in National Geographic many years ago of an old > > woman near the > > headwaters of the Ganges who had "Rama Rama Rama > > Rama....." tattooed > > all over her face. > > > > , "prainbow61" > > <paulie- > > rainbow@u...> wrote: > > > Namaste, > > > > > > The woman and I found this article: > > > > > > > > > http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2001/7-8/38-41_tatoo.shtml > > > > > > Which says in part: > > > "Among the most devoutly tattooed groups anywhere > > is the community > > of > > > Ramnaamis. Scattered across the Indian states of > > Bihar and Madhya > > > Pradesh, this sect of untouchables found refuge > > from harm in their > > > distinctive tattoos the name "Ram" repeated in > > Sanskrit on > > > practically every inch of skin, even on the tongue > > and inside the > > > lips. Ramnaamis began their extraordinary custom > > during the Hindu > > > reformist movement of the 19th century when they > > angered the upper- > > > caste brahmins by adopting brahminical customs. To > > protect > > themselves > > > against the brahmins' wrath, the Ramnaamis > > tattooed the name of > > Lord > > > Ram on their bodies. About 1,500 strong today, the > > Ramnaami > > community > > > still practices this painful rite, which is as > > much a > > demonstration > > > of devotion as a talisman against persecution. > > > > > > "… Some of the most elaborate tattoo patterns > > anywhere are on the > > > women of the Ribari tribe of Kutch, the very > > region in northwest > > > India just devastated by an earthquake. It is one > > of the places to > > > which the Pandavas were exiled during the > > Mahabharata. The members > > of > > > the nomadic Ribari tribe live as their ancestors > > did; their > > tattoos > > > being tangible symbols of the people's strong > > spirit and concern > > with > > > faith and survival." > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > pr > > > > > > > > > , > > SophiasDream@a... wrote: > > > > is there no population in india or any hindu > > country which has > > > tattoos? is there no justification under any form > > of hinduism nor > > > history for this art form? are you saying in the > > history of > > india, > > > nobody has ever had tattoos, and that the origin > > of this is > > totally > > > from other origins? i find that very hard to > > believe, but if you > > > insist it is so, who am i to argue ... > > > > > > > > peace, love and poetic license, > > > > cathie > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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