Guest guest Posted October 14, 2003 Report Share Posted October 14, 2003 Some one posted this story in one of the groups in which I am a member. Lets discuss? Kochu Max Long was riding on a remote trail in Wyoming and he noticed a man crouching down mending a fence, talking to himself. Max asked him, "It gets so you have to talk to yourself out here, does it?" The man replied that he was praying that the horses wouldn't get out. And, max said, "And mending the fences at the same time?!" The man replied, "Yep, thats the best way to pray, seems to me. Can't leave the fences down and then ask God to keep the horses in." The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2003 Report Share Posted October 15, 2003 OM Sankara Menon I had two quick thoughts about the story of the fencemender in Wyoming. First, the fact that the cowboy was fixing the fence and praying at the same time suggests that all of our activities should be conducted with an attitude of humility plus reverence and thankfulness to the Divine. The story suggests that we can act without ego and that we can be agents of the Divine. It suggests that we should not be fatalistic and undertake no action as this would be tamasic whereas as acting while mindful of the Divine may not be rajasic but may, in fact, be sattvic. Second, unlike the story, prayer often occurs at a time when we have run out of options. Then, we pray and put our self in the hands of the Divine. This act of surrender can be another way to overcome the ego and its limitations and to move us into other planes of existence where other solutions present themselves or where we gain a different perspective on the situation that we are powerless to prevent. OM Namah Sivaya Omprem , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > Some one posted this story in one of the groups in which I am a member. > > Lets discuss? > > Kochu > > Max Long was riding on a remote trail in Wyoming and he noticed a man crouching down mending a fence, talking to himself. Max asked him, "It gets so you have to talk to yourself out here, does it?" > > The man replied that he was praying that the horses wouldn't get out. And, max said, "And mending the fences at the same time?!" The man replied, "Yep, thats the best way to pray, seems to me. Can't leave the fences down and then ask God to keep the horses in." > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2003 Report Share Posted October 16, 2003 the point I sense is surrender should always be there not in times of adversity omprem <omprem wrote:OM Sankara Menon I had two quick thoughts about the story of the fencemender in Wyoming. First, the fact that the cowboy was fixing the fence and praying at the same time suggests that all of our activities should be conducted with an attitude of humility plus reverence and thankfulness to the Divine. The story suggests that we can act without ego and that we can be agents of the Divine. It suggests that we should not be fatalistic and undertake no action as this would be tamasic whereas as acting while mindful of the Divine may not be rajasic but may, in fact, be sattvic. Second, unlike the story, prayer often occurs at a time when we have run out of options. Then, we pray and put our self in the hands of the Divine. This act of surrender can be another way to overcome the ego and its limitations and to move us into other planes of existence where other solutions present themselves or where we gain a different perspective on the situation that we are powerless to prevent. OM Namah Sivaya Omprem , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > Some one posted this story in one of the groups in which I am a member. > > Lets discuss? > > Kochu > > Max Long was riding on a remote trail in Wyoming and he noticed a man crouching down mending a fence, talking to himself. Max asked him, "It gets so you have to talk to yourself out here, does it?" > > The man replied that he was praying that the horses wouldn't get out. And, max said, "And mending the fences at the same time?!" The man replied, "Yep, thats the best way to pray, seems to me. Can't leave the fences down and then ask God to keep the horses in." > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 OM Sankara Menon Yes, exactly. It is only through surrender or relinquishing the ego and the sense of being the doer, that one is able to be attuned to Brahman. OM Namaha Sivaya Omprem , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > the point I sense is surrender should always be there not in times of adversity > > omprem <omprem> wrote:OM Sankara Menon > > I had two quick thoughts about the story of the fencemender in > Wyoming. > > First, the fact that the cowboy was fixing the fence and praying at > the same time suggests that all of our activities should be > conducted with an attitude of humility plus reverence and > thankfulness to the Divine. > > The story suggests that we can act without ego and that we can > be agents of the Divine. It suggests that we should not be > fatalistic and undertake no action as this would be tamasic > whereas as acting while mindful of the Divine may not be rajasic > but may, in fact, be sattvic. > > Second, unlike the story, prayer often occurs at a time when we > have run out of options. Then, we pray and put our self in the > hands of the Divine. This act of surrender can be another way to > overcome the ego and its limitations and to move us into other > planes of existence where other solutions present themselves > or where we gain a different perspective on the situation that we > are powerless to prevent. > > OM Namah Sivaya > > Omprem > > , sankara menon > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > Some one posted this story in one of the groups in which I am > a member. > > > > Lets discuss? > > > > Kochu > > > > Max Long was riding on a remote trail in Wyoming and he > noticed a man crouching down mending a fence, talking to > himself. Max asked him, "It gets so you have to talk to yourself > out here, does it?" > > > > The man replied that he was praying that the horses wouldn't > get out. And, max said, "And mending the fences at the same > time?!" The man replied, "Yep, thats the best way to pray, seems > to me. Can't leave the fences down and then ask God to keep the > horses in." > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2003 Report Share Posted October 17, 2003 This is an interesting discussion. So the point is both that surrender be there at all times, as well as that it is important and necessary to attend to what one is capable of attending to when one is capable. This suggests that any kind of attention or action that qualifies as "mending the fence" is important to do, while also surrendering. Political action can constitute "mending the fence," though I have thought there has been a bias against such action as only externally motivated, not able to be in tune with higher power or consciousness. What do you think? Mary Ann , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > the point I sense is surrender should always be there not in times of adversity > > omprem <omprem> wrote:OM Sankara Menon > > I had two quick thoughts about the story of the fencemender in > Wyoming. > > First, the fact that the cowboy was fixing the fence and praying at > the same time suggests that all of our activities should be > conducted with an attitude of humility plus reverence and > thankfulness to the Divine. > > The story suggests that we can act without ego and that we can > be agents of the Divine. It suggests that we should not be > fatalistic and undertake no action as this would be tamasic > whereas as acting while mindful of the Divine may not be rajasic > but may, in fact, be sattvic. > > Second, unlike the story, prayer often occurs at a time when we > have run out of options. Then, we pray and put our self in the > hands of the Divine. This act of surrender can be another way to > overcome the ego and its limitations and to move us into other > planes of existence where other solutions present themselves > or where we gain a different perspective on the situation that we > are powerless to prevent. > > OM Namah Sivaya > > Omprem > > , sankara menon > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > Some one posted this story in one of the groups in which I am > a member. > > > > Lets discuss? > > > > Kochu > > > > Max Long was riding on a remote trail in Wyoming and he > noticed a man crouching down mending a fence, talking to > himself. Max asked him, "It gets so you have to talk to yourself > out here, does it?" > > > > The man replied that he was praying that the horses wouldn't > get out. And, max said, "And mending the fences at the same > time?!" The man replied, "Yep, thats the best way to pray, seems > to me. Can't leave the fences down and then ask God to keep the > horses in." > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 we are the Gods. So what we have to do we MUST. THEN leave the rest to God. Whatever we think is right IS right as long as another person's space is not imoinged. Then it becomes unacceptable. Mary Ann <maryann wrote:This is an interesting discussion. So the point is both that surrender be there at all times, as well as that it is important and necessary to attend to what one is capable of attending to when one is capable. This suggests that any kind of attention or action that qualifies as "mending the fence" is important to do, while also surrendering. Political action can constitute "mending the fence," though I have thought there has been a bias against such action as only externally motivated, not able to be in tune with higher power or consciousness. What do you think? Mary Ann , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > the point I sense is surrender should always be there not in times of adversity > > omprem <omprem> wrote:OM Sankara Menon > > I had two quick thoughts about the story of the fencemender in > Wyoming. > > First, the fact that the cowboy was fixing the fence and praying at > the same time suggests that all of our activities should be > conducted with an attitude of humility plus reverence and > thankfulness to the Divine. > > The story suggests that we can act without ego and that we can > be agents of the Divine. It suggests that we should not be > fatalistic and undertake no action as this would be tamasic > whereas as acting while mindful of the Divine may not be rajasic > but may, in fact, be sattvic. > > Second, unlike the story, prayer often occurs at a time when we > have run out of options. Then, we pray and put our self in the > hands of the Divine. This act of surrender can be another way to > overcome the ego and its limitations and to move us into other > planes of existence where other solutions present themselves > or where we gain a different perspective on the situation that we > are powerless to prevent. > > OM Namah Sivaya > > Omprem > > , sankara menon > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > Some one posted this story in one of the groups in which I am > a member. > > > > Lets discuss? > > > > Kochu > > > > Max Long was riding on a remote trail in Wyoming and he > noticed a man crouching down mending a fence, talking to > himself. Max asked him, "It gets so you have to talk to yourself > out here, does it?" > > > > The man replied that he was praying that the horses wouldn't > get out. And, max said, "And mending the fences at the same > time?!" The man replied, "Yep, thats the best way to pray, seems > to me. Can't leave the fences down and then ask God to keep the > horses in." > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > The New with improved product search Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2003 Report Share Posted October 18, 2003 Thanks for the reply. Then I guess it boils down to what we think it means to "impinge" on someone else's space. Like, power that someone or a particular group has, those who hold on to that kind of power, not recognizing the power of value of others, may feel impinged on when those others of supposed "lesser" status assert their own power through self-expression, and/or whatever other means, political, legal, etc. , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > we are the Gods. So what we have to do we MUST. THEN leave the rest to God. Whatever we think is right IS right as long as another person's space is not imoinged. Then it becomes unacceptable. > > Mary Ann <maryann@m...> wrote:This is an interesting discussion. So the point is both that > surrender be there at all times, as well as that it is important and > necessary to attend to what one is capable of attending to when > one is capable. This suggests that any kind of attention or action > that qualifies as "mending the fence" is important to do, while > also surrendering. Political action can constitute "mending the > fence," though I have thought there has been a bias against > such action as only externally motivated, not able to be in tune > with higher power or consciousness. What do you think? > > Mary Ann > > , sankara menon > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > the point I sense is surrender should always be there not in > times of adversity > > > > omprem <omprem> wrote:OM Sankara Menon > > > > I had two quick thoughts about the story of the fencemender in > > Wyoming. > > > > First, the fact that the cowboy was fixing the fence and praying > at > > the same time suggests that all of our activities should be > > conducted with an attitude of humility plus reverence and > > thankfulness to the Divine. > > > > The story suggests that we can act without ego and that we > can > > be agents of the Divine. It suggests that we should not be > > fatalistic and undertake no action as this would be tamasic > > whereas as acting while mindful of the Divine may not be > rajasic > > but may, in fact, be sattvic. > > > > Second, unlike the story, prayer often occurs at a time when we > > have run out of options. Then, we pray and put our self in the > > hands of the Divine. This act of surrender can be another way > to > > overcome the ego and its limitations and to move us into other > > planes of existence where other solutions present themselves > > or where we gain a different perspective on the situation that > we > > are powerless to prevent. > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > Omprem > > > > , sankara menon > > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > > Some one posted this story in one of the groups in which I > am > > a member. > > > > > > Lets discuss? > > > > > > Kochu > > > > > > Max Long was riding on a remote trail in Wyoming and he > > noticed a man crouching down mending a fence, talking to > > himself. Max asked him, "It gets so you have to talk to yourself > > out here, does it?" > > > > > > The man replied that he was praying that the horses wouldn't > > get out. And, max said, "And mending the fences at the same > > time?!" The man replied, "Yep, thats the best way to pray, > seems > > to me. Can't leave the fences down and then ask God to keep > the > > horses in." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2003 Report Share Posted October 21, 2003 Om Sankara Menon "so long as another person's space is not [infringed]" Yes, this is the application of ahimsa in thought, word and deed at all levels of subtlety. It requires the ego to be uprooted, it requires fearless and rigorous self-analysis of motive. Very often people are eager to change the world or a part of it but are reluctant to change themselves. Very often people lack self-awareness and self-confidence and attack others in order to give themselves a sense of presence. But it is a shallow sense of being that disappears quickly only to be followed by renewed efforts to tell other people how they should live their lives. As Swami Sivananda says, "Reform yourself and let the rest of the world reform itself." Om Namah Sivaya Omprem , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > we are the Gods. So what we have to do we MUST. THEN leave the rest to God. Whatever we think is right IS right as long as another person's space is not imoinged. Then it becomes unacceptable. > > Mary Ann <maryann@m...> wrote:This is an interesting discussion. So the point is both that > surrender be there at all times, as well as that it is important and > necessary to attend to what one is capable of attending to when > one is capable. This suggests that any kind of attention or action > that qualifies as "mending the fence" is important to do, while > also surrendering. Political action can constitute "mending the > fence," though I have thought there has been a bias against > such action as only externally motivated, not able to be in tune > with higher power or consciousness. What do you think? > > Mary Ann > > , sankara menon > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > the point I sense is surrender should always be there not in > times of adversity > > > > omprem <omprem> wrote:OM Sankara Menon > > > > I had two quick thoughts about the story of the fencemender in > > Wyoming. > > > > First, the fact that the cowboy was fixing the fence and praying > at > > the same time suggests that all of our activities should be > > conducted with an attitude of humility plus reverence and > > thankfulness to the Divine. > > > > The story suggests that we can act without ego and that we > can > > be agents of the Divine. It suggests that we should not be > > fatalistic and undertake no action as this would be tamasic > > whereas as acting while mindful of the Divine may not be > rajasic > > but may, in fact, be sattvic. > > > > Second, unlike the story, prayer often occurs at a time when we > > have run out of options. Then, we pray and put our self in the > > hands of the Divine. This act of surrender can be another way > to > > overcome the ego and its limitations and to move us into other > > planes of existence where other solutions present themselves > > or where we gain a different perspective on the situation that > we > > are powerless to prevent. > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > Omprem > > > > , sankara menon > > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > > Some one posted this story in one of the groups in which I > am > > a member. > > > > > > Lets discuss? > > > > > > Kochu > > > > > > Max Long was riding on a remote trail in Wyoming and he > > noticed a man crouching down mending a fence, talking to > > himself. Max asked him, "It gets so you have to talk to yourself > > out here, does it?" > > > > > > The man replied that he was praying that the horses wouldn't > > get out. And, max said, "And mending the fences at the same > > time?!" The man replied, "Yep, thats the best way to pray, > seems > > to me. Can't leave the fences down and then ask God to keep > the > > horses in." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but this seems to miss the point in the post it replies to. I thought Sankara Menon was saying that we are the gods, and to trust in our motivations for action in the world, as we also surrender to the god(dess) within. This post sounds as though you are blanketing all external actions to effect change in the world with your judgments of the motivations for any such actions. Do you disagree, Omprem, that political action can constitute "mending the fence" as in Sankara Menon's original story? Please clarify, and forgive me if I have mistaken your meaning. Regards, Mary Ann , "omprem" <omprem> wrote: > Om Sankara Menon > > "so long as another person's space is not [infringed]" > > Yes, this is the application of ahimsa in thought, word and deed > at all levels of subtlety. It requires the ego to be uprooted, it > requires fearless and rigorous self-analysis of motive. > > Very often people are eager to change the world or a part of it but > are reluctant to change themselves. > > Very often people lack self-awareness and self-confidence and > attack others in order to give themselves a sense of presence. > But it is a shallow sense of being that disappears quickly only to > be followed by renewed efforts to tell other people how they > should live their lives. > > As Swami Sivananda says, "Reform yourself and let the rest of > the world reform itself." > > Om Namah Sivaya > > Omprem > , sankara menon > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > we are the Gods. So what we have to do we MUST. THEN > leave the rest to God. Whatever we think is right IS right as long > as another person's space is not imoinged. Then it becomes > unacceptable. > > > > Mary Ann <maryann@m...> wrote:This is an interesting > discussion. So the point is both that > > surrender be there at all times, as well as that it is important > and > > necessary to attend to what one is capable of attending to > when > > one is capable. This suggests that any kind of attention or > action > > that qualifies as "mending the fence" is important to do, while > > also surrendering. Political action can constitute "mending the > > fence," though I have thought there has been a bias against > > such action as only externally motivated, not able to be in tune > > with higher power or consciousness. What do you think? > > > > Mary Ann > > > > , sankara menon > > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > > the point I sense is surrender should always be there not in > > times of adversity > > > > > > omprem <omprem> wrote:OM Sankara Menon > > > > > > I had two quick thoughts about the story of the fencemender > in > > > Wyoming. > > > > > > First, the fact that the cowboy was fixing the fence and praying > > at > > > the same time suggests that all of our activities should be > > > conducted with an attitude of humility plus reverence and > > > thankfulness to the Divine. > > > > > > The story suggests that we can act without ego and that we > > can > > > be agents of the Divine. It suggests that we should not be > > > fatalistic and undertake no action as this would be tamasic > > > whereas as acting while mindful of the Divine may not be > > rajasic > > > but may, in fact, be sattvic. > > > > > > Second, unlike the story, prayer often occurs at a time when > we > > > have run out of options. Then, we pray and put our self in the > > > hands of the Divine. This act of surrender can be another way > > to > > > overcome the ego and its limitations and to move us into > other > > > planes of existence where other solutions present > themselves > > > or where we gain a different perspective on the situation that > > we > > > are powerless to prevent. > > > > > > OM Namah Sivaya > > > > > > Omprem > > > > > > , sankara menon > > > <kochu1tz> wrote: > > > > Some one posted this story in one of the groups in which I > > am > > > a member. > > > > > > > > Lets discuss? > > > > > > > > Kochu > > > > > > > > Max Long was riding on a remote trail in Wyoming and he > > > noticed a man crouching down mending a fence, talking to > > > himself. Max asked him, "It gets so you have to talk to > yourself > > > out here, does it?" > > > > > > > > The man replied that he was praying that the horses > wouldn't > > > get out. And, max said, "And mending the fences at the same > > > time?!" The man replied, "Yep, thats the best way to pray, > > seems > > > to me. Can't leave the fences down and then ask God to keep > > the > > > horses in." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > The New with improved product search > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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