Mary

[Guest guest]

>There is an odd thing about the Roman Church that

>puzzled me and that involves the reverence of Jesus's

>mother and the "mother church" but the esteem for

>women seems somewhat lower in real world terms. I

>wonder if it is due to Mother Mary being such an

>ideal that there is a loss of appreciation with the

>here and now world and existence of women. Please

>understand that I am such an outsider to it.

 

This problem is the result of a long battle within

Judaism and Christianity. The conflict goes back to

the time of Moses, about 3000 years ago.

Before Moses, Judaism was polytheistic, much like

the religions of the surrounding peoples. Moses

suggested momotheism, that the people should worship

one god, and only one god, a male god. The common

people resisted, insisting that they should be allowed

to worship his wife too. There are suggestions in the

Bible of the common Jews of that time worshipping a

goddess named Astoreth, probably their version of

Astarte. So the priests taught a male-only theology

but the people refused to accept this.

The fight continued into the Christian era. Early

Christian theology held that there was a trinity:

Jehovah the Father, Sophia the Mother, and Jesus the

son. Even today, there is a huge cathedral named for

Sophia in Istanbul. But the Catholic popes disliked

this system. They neuterized Sophia and renamed her

Holy Spirit.

This left Christians with no female divine. So

they turned to the only female entity that the Church

would allow them to worship. This was Mary, the mother

of Jesus. Official church teaching was that people

were permitted to venerate Mary but not to worship

her. Most people of course did not understand this

distinction, so Mary became a very important part of

the theology even though she is a minor character in

the Bible.

So the difference here is the official teachings

of the Church versus the beliefs of the common people.

The leaders taught a male-only theology, but the

people refused to accept this.

 

Sister Usha

 

 

=====

Sister Usha Devi

Founder, Divinely Female and worshipper of the Sacred Flame that shines inside

every woman

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

[Guest guest]

, Sister Usha Devi

<sisterusha> wrote:

 

" The common

> people resisted, insisting that they should be allowed

> to worship his wife too. There are suggestions in the

> Bible of the common Jews of that time worshipping a

> goddess named Astoreth, probably their version of

> Astarte."

 

Did the people insist that the female aspect be a "wife"? Or was

that the only way a female deity could even be considered?

 

"The fight continued into the Christian era. Early

> Christian theology held that there was a trinity:

> Jehovah the Father, Sophia the Mother, and Jesus the

> son. Even today, there is a huge cathedral named for

> Sophia in Istanbul. But the Catholic popes disliked

> this system. They neuterized Sophia and renamed her

> Holy Spirit."

 

I think it is fascinating how the many religions intersect. The

above reminds me of something I was told about

Chakrasamvara, a Buddhist Tantric deity shown as male and

female copulating: "The union of the deities is not a sexual

union, it is the union of wisdom (symbolized by female) and

compassion (symbolized by male)."

 

So in early Christianity and/or Judaism, the female aspect was

also "Sophia" or "wisdom," as the Greek language translates

"Sophia." Jehovah or Yahweh, however, seems too authoritarian

to represent "compassion," although I know he was represented

as answering prayers, possibly his evolution away from

compassion came with the suppression of the female aspect. I

think of Jehovah as a punisher, though I am not familiar with all

the Biblical stories. It's the image that I have, though, what with

the "jealous" or "zealous" god passage, and many of the terrible

things that happen to girls and women in the Bible.

 

--Mary Ann

[Guest guest]

>Did the people insist that the female aspect be

>a "wife"? Or was that the only way a female deity

>could even be considered?

 

I do not know. I suspect that this was simply logical

that the supreme male deity should be married to the

supreme female deity.

>So in early Christianity and/or Judaism, the female

>aspect was also "Sophia" or "wisdom," as the Greek

>language translates "Sophia."

 

Correct.

>Jehovah or Yahweh,

>however, seems too authoritarian to >represent

"compassion," although I know he was

>represented as answering prayers, possibly his

>evolution away from compassion came with the

>suppression of the female aspect. I think of Jehovah

>as a punisher, though I am not familiar with all

>the Biblical stories.

 

You are correct. Yahweh was originally a war god,

angry and vengeful. This is reflected in the oldest

stories in the Bible, written before the time period

that I discussed yesterday. Then came the era with the

conflict betwwen Yahweh and Astoreth competing for

support. That conflict gradually lessened when the

priests proclaimed that Yahweh was compassionate as

well as vengeful. Thus he remained male though blessed

with female compassion. Some Christians today say that

God is love, that whenever one feels love of any kind

in the heart, this is God inside you. Thus they have

abandoned the idea of an angry militaristic god

altogether. This is only some Christians, not all.

Please understand that I am not Christian myself,

but have ben surrounded by them since I moved to the

USA many years ago. I listen politely and ask

questions, even though I have no intentions of

changing my beliefs.

 

Usha

 

=====

Sister Usha Devi

Founder, Divinely Female and worshipper of the Sacred Flame that shines inside

every woman

 

 

 

Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

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[Guest guest]

Hello Sister Usha Devi:

 

I appreciate your comments on early Christian beliefs. I was

thinking about Lot's wife recently and the notion that turning

around to see what one is leaving behind as one is forced to

leave home would be punished by being turned into a pillar of

salt.... In investigating the origin of marriage, I did read that

Astoreth was married to "Set," whoever that is. I was hoping to

find her unmarried.

 

I have wondered about the Hindu depictions of women as

warlike, as in the Devi Mahatmyam, for instance. Do you know if

this is a fact of Eastern or pagan beliefs past, that women were,

or were thought to be, more warlike or wrathful than men? I did

read something online recently that said this from an Eastern

perspective. However, I do not recall where I read it, or in what

context it came about, nor was I certain it was anything other than

the opinion of the one person who wrote it. But it did make me

wonder. And there's the thing about Amazons cutting off their

breasts so they could use bows and arrows. I know that's not

Hindu-related, but I am wondering about earlier times and what

women may have been like, when there would have been no

such thing as what we think of as "wife." This also harkens back

to the Buddhist Chakrasamvara, because I was surprised that

men were viewed as compassionate, and women wise.

 

About your comments re your spiritual beliefs: I don't think your

knowledgeability about Christianity would make someone think

you are ready to convert to Christianity or anything like that. It's

Jesus that stands for the proposition that God is Love, though it's

still true that different people still think that some people are

more worthy of love than others, etc. If it true that anytime one

feels Love, one experiences God, I have honestly noticed that

eating chocolate causes me to have such a spiritual experience!

It is said that the chemical reaction to chocolate in the human

body causes the same effect as being "in love."

 

-- Mary Ann

 

, Sister Usha Devi

<sisterusha> wrote:

> >Did the people insist that the female aspect be

> >a "wife"? Or was that the only way a female deity

> >could even be considered?

>

> I do not know. I suspect that this was simply logical

> that the supreme male deity should be married to the

> supreme female deity.

>

> >So in early Christianity and/or Judaism, the female

> >aspect was also "Sophia" or "wisdom," as the Greek

> >language translates "Sophia."

>

> Correct.

>

> >Jehovah or Yahweh,

> >however, seems too authoritarian to >represent

> "compassion," although I know he was

> >represented as answering prayers, possibly his

> >evolution away from compassion came with the

> >suppression of the female aspect. I think of Jehovah

> >as a punisher, though I am not familiar with all

> >the Biblical stories.

>

> You are correct. Yahweh was originally a war god,

> angry and vengeful. This is reflected in the oldest

> stories in the Bible, written before the time period

> that I discussed yesterday. Then came the era with the

> conflict betwwen Yahweh and Astoreth competing for

> support. That conflict gradually lessened when the

> priests proclaimed that Yahweh was compassionate as

> well as vengeful. Thus he remained male though blessed

> with female compassion. Some Christians today say that

> God is love, that whenever one feels love of any kind

> in the heart, this is God inside you. Thus they have

> abandoned the idea of an angry militaristic god

> altogether. This is only some Christians, not all.

> Please understand that I am not Christian myself,

> but have ben surrounded by them since I moved to the

> USA many years ago. I listen politely and ask

> questions, even though I have no intentions of

> changing my beliefs.

>

> Usha

>

> =====

> Sister Usha Devi

> Founder, Divinely Female and worshipper of the Sacred Flame

that shines inside every woman

>

>

>

> Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus

[Guest guest]

Dear Mary & All friends,

 

See what Jehovah says in this collection of verses from the Bible may serve you

well to read & ponder. This is in form of a poem:

 

My Child…

 

You may not know me, but I know everything about you …Psalm 139:1

 

I know when you sit down and when you rise up …Psalm 139:2

 

I am familiar with all your ways …Psalm 139:3

 

Even the very hairs on your head are numbered …Matthew 10:29-31

 

For you were made in my image …Genesis 1:27

 

In me you live and move and have your being …Acts 17:28

 

For you are my offspring …Acts 17:28

 

I knew you even before you were conceived …Jeremiah 1:4-5

 

I chose you when I planned creation …Ephesians 1:11-12

 

You were not a mistake, for all your days are written in my book …Psalm

139:15-16

 

I determined the exact time of your birth and where you would live …Acts 17:26

 

You are fearfully and wonderfully made …Psalm 139:14

 

I knit you together in your mother's womb …Psalm 139:13

 

And brought you forth on the day you were born …Psalm 71:6

 

I have been misrepresented by those who don't know me …John 8:41-44

 

I am not distant and angry, but am the complete _expression of love …1 John 4:16

 

And it is my desire to lavish my love on you …1 John 3:1

 

Simply because you are my child and I am your father …1 John 3:1

 

I offer you more than your earthly father ever could …Matthew 7:11

 

For I am the perfect father …Matthew 5:48

 

Every good gift that you receive comes from my hand …James 1:17

 

For I am your provider and I meet all your needs …Matthew 6:31-33

 

My plan for your future has always been filled with hope …Jeremiah 29:11

 

Because I love you with an everlasting love …Jeremiah 31:3

 

My thoughts toward you are countless as the sand on the seashore ...Psalms

139:17-18

 

And I rejoice over you with singing …Zephaniah 3:17

 

I will never stop doing good to you …Jeremiah 32:40

 

For you are my treasured possession …Exodus 19:5

 

I desire to establish you with all my heart and all my soul …Jeremiah 32:41

 

And I want to show you great and marvelous things …Jeremiah 33:3

 

If you seek me with all your heart, you will find me …Deuteronomy 4:29

 

Delight in me and I will give you the desires of your heart …Psalm 37:4

 

For it is I who gave you those desires …Philippians 2:13

 

I am able to do more for you than you could possibly imagine …Ephesians 3:20

 

For I am your greatest encourager …2 Thessalonians 2:16-17

 

I am also the Father who comforts you in all your troubles …2 Corinthians 1:3-4

 

When you are brokenhearted, I am close to you …Psalm 34:18

 

As a shepherd carries a lamb, I have carried you close to my heart …Isaiah 40:11

 

One day I will wipe away every tear from your eyes …Revelation 21:3-4

 

And I'll take away all the pain you have suffered on this earth …Revelation

21:3-4

 

I am your Father, and I love you even as I love my son, Jesus …John 17:23

 

For in Jesus, my love for you is revealed …John 17:26

 

He is the exact representation of my being …Hebrews 1:3

 

He came to demonstrate that I am for you, not against you …Romans 8:31

 

And to tell you that I am not counting your sins …2 Corinthians 5:18-19

 

Jesus died so that you and I could be reconciled …2 Corinthians 5:18-19

 

His death was the ultimate _expression of my love for you …1 John 4:10

 

I gave up everything I loved that I might gain your love …Romans 8:31-32

 

If you receive the gift of my son Jesus, you receive me …1 John 2:23

 

And nothing will ever separate you from my love again …Romans 8:38-39

 

Come home and I'll throw the biggest party heaven has ever seen …Luke 15:7

 

I have always been Father, and will always be Father …Ephesians 3:14-15

 

My question is…Will you be my child? …John 1:12-13

 

I am waiting for you …Luke 15:11-32

 

Love, Your Dad. Almighty God

 

*********

 

Warm regards,

[Guest guest]

"See what Jehovah says in this collection of verses from the Bible

may serve you well to read & ponder"

 

Well yes I have read and ponder them, thank you very much, but they

mean nothing to me. Its like a father trying to justify to me as to

why I should go to HIM and not to MOTHER. Its the same backgroud I

was told to believe and where I come from once : Only through the

voice of man/male, you can reach God. Or God only listen to Men/Male.

I rejected this notion and I will continue to reject it.

[Guest guest]

Hello: Are you sure those quotes came from Jehovah or Yahweh? From

the credits listed, it looks as though they came from various men,

and no women, and God/dess only knows who really inspired them. Also,

I guess the women of those times can be forgiven for not contributing

due probably to having been turned into pillars of salt, or later,

simply not allowed to participate.

 

MAV

 

 

, Subhashish Das

<editor4educomp> wrote:

> Dear Mary & All friends,

>

> See what Jehovah says in this collection of verses from the Bible

may serve you well to read & ponder. ...

[Guest guest]

>Do you know if this is a fact of Eastern or pagan

>beliefs past, that women were, or were thought to be,

>more warlike or wrathful than men?

 

Men in Eastern beliefs are also very often warlike. I

suggest reding the Ramayana. The difference is in the

motivations. Most men and male deities in such tales

fight for their own glory and honor, or sometimes to

prove their superiority and become dominant over other

peoples. Kali and most other female warriors fight to

protect their children.

There are many tales of warrior females in Europe

also. German and Celtic myths tell of brave women who

killed many men. Some of these have basis in history,

for example Queen Boudicca who fought the Romans in

ancient Britain. But this runs counter to Christian

views of women being quiet and delicate servants of

men.

>And there's the thing about Amazons cutting off their

>breasts so they could use bows and arrows.

 

This is not true. This appears to be something that

the Greeks made up to try to ridicule the Amazons.

>About your comments re your spiritual beliefs: I

>don't think your knowledgeability about Christianity

>would make someone think you are ready to convert to

>Christianity or anything like that.

 

A friend told me that she heard rumors that some

people on the list think that I am a Christian

pretending to be something else. This I find very

amusing.

 

Sister Usha

 

=====

Sister Usha Devi

Founder, Divinely Female and worshipper of the Sacred Flame that shines inside

every woman

 

 

 

Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus

[Guest guest]

, Sister Usha Devi

<sisterusha> wrote:

> >Do you know if this is a fact of Eastern or pagan

> >beliefs past, that women were, or were thought to be,

> >more warlike or wrathful than men?

>

> Men in Eastern beliefs are also very often warlike. I

> suggest reding the Ramayana. The difference is in the

> motivations. Most men and male deities in such tales

> fight for their own glory and honor, or sometimes to

> prove their superiority and become dominant over other

> peoples. Kali and most other female warriors fight to

> protect their children.

 

 

Kali is not a female warrior. Some common sense will help you

understand that.

 

Male deities fought for their honor??What makes you think that??

Support your statements. Male deities and Female deities fought for

the same cause in Hinduism.

[Guest guest]

Be Nice Satish !

[Guest guest]

Hi Satish: Can you answer my question, which you reposted? I

would be interested in reading your understanding of the

reasons Gods and Goddesses fought in Hinduism. I've read the

Devi Mahatmyam, and I've read the Bhagavad Gita As It Is. But

those books didn't answer this sufficiently for me, and if you

know, or have a certain understanding different from others in

the group, why not post that information?

 

-Mary Ann

 

, "Satish Arigela"

<satisharigela> wrote:

> , Sister Usha Devi

> <sisterusha> wrote:

> > >Do you know if this is a fact of Eastern or pagan

> > >beliefs past, that women were, or were thought to be,

> > >more warlike or wrathful than men?

> >

> > Men in Eastern beliefs are also very often warlike. I

> > suggest reding the Ramayana. The difference is in the

> > motivations. Most men and male deities in such tales

> > fight for their own glory and honor, or sometimes to

> > prove their superiority and become dominant over other

> > peoples. Kali and most other female warriors fight to

> > protect their children.

>

>

> Kali is not a female warrior. Some common sense will help

you

> understand that.

>

> Male deities fought for their honor??What makes you think

that??

> Support your statements. Male deities and Female deities

fought for

> the same cause in Hinduism.

[Guest guest]

Hi Usha:

 

I have deliberately avoided the Ramayana due to that kind of

content. I had a hard time with the Devi Mahatmyam, also,

because of the constant bloody battling. Even if it's meant as

metaphor, why so violent?? (This is a rhetorical question, but

feel free to answer if you have an idea or two....) BTW: I've also

not read The Art of War (not Hindu, but...), though one of the

attorneys I work for recommends it highly, and considers it

excellent source material for the litigator, and for life.... Thought

you might find this interesting in light of the Justice posts.

 

--Mary Ann

 

, Sister Usha Devi

<sisterusha> wrote:

> >Do you know if this is a fact of Eastern or pagan

> >beliefs past, that women were, or were thought to be,

> >more warlike or wrathful than men?

>

> Men in Eastern beliefs are also very often warlike. I

> suggest reding the Ramayana. The difference is in the

> motivations. Most men and male deities in such tales

> fight for their own glory and honor, or sometimes to

> prove their superiority and become dominant over other

> peoples. Kali and most other female warriors fight to

> protect their children.

> There are many tales of warrior females in Europe

> also. German and Celtic myths tell of brave women who

> killed many men. Some of these have basis in history,

> for example Queen Boudicca who fought the Romans in

> ancient Britain. But this runs counter to Christian

> views of women being quiet and delicate servants of

> men.

>

> >And there's the thing about Amazons cutting off their

>

> >breasts so they could use bows and arrows.

>

> This is not true. This appears to be something that

> the Greeks made up to try to ridicule the Amazons.

>

> >About your comments re your spiritual beliefs: I

> >don't think your knowledgeability about Christianity

> >would make someone think you are ready to convert to

> >Christianity or anything like that.

>

> A friend told me that she heard rumors that some

> people on the list think that I am a Christian

> pretending to be something else. This I find very

> amusing.

>

> Sister Usha

>

> =====

> Sister Usha Devi

> Founder, Divinely Female and worshipper of the Sacred Flame

that shines inside every woman

>

>

>

> Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

> http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus

[Guest guest]

, "Mary Ann" <maryann@m...>

wrote:

> Hi Satish: Can you answer my question, which you reposted? I

> would be interested in reading your understanding of the

> reasons Gods and Goddesses fought in Hinduism. I've read the

> Devi Mahatmyam, and I've read the Bhagavad Gita As It Is. But

> those books didn't answer this sufficiently for me, and if you

> know, or have a certain understanding different from others in

> the group, why not post that information?

 

 

I dont have any special understanding. Most of the time the

Gods/Godesseses fought against Rakshasas to protect their devotees

from being tormented by the demons. It can be also thought of as a

fight against the internal demons, the arishadvargas i.e Lust,

anger, greed and like..

[Guest guest]

> Kali is not a female warrior. Some common sense will help

you

> understand that.

 

I was discussing mythology. In myth, Kali killed a huge army of

demons. I am perfectly aware that this is a myth teaching spiritual

truths teaching about battles within our own souls rather than

pysical truths. You are not giving me sufficient credit here. You

assume that because my remarks were brief that I must not know other

things that I did not deem relevant to say.

 

Sister Usha