Hi, guys!

[Guest guest]

Hi, guys! I am new to this list so I thought I'd introduce myself. My

name is Yvonne and I turn 21 next month. I am a college student in

the United States majoring in comparative religion. My mother is a

Christian minister, but I abandoned that religion myself a long time

ago. I very much prefer what my aunt has been teaching me.

You guys already know my aunt. She recommended that I join this

list to learn more about Shatkism. Her name is Usha. She was born in

India but came to the US years ago after she married my uncle. Wisest

woman in the entire galaxy, my Auntie Usha. She has taught me lots,

and I love her dearly for this. She even taught me not to hate my mom

as much as I did years ago.

So, I have read several books on Hinduism, and I had a course in

college on Eastern religions. That covered Hinduism, Buddhism,

Taoism, Confucianism, and Shinto. But my Auntie Usha says that

Hinduism as practiced in India is very different from what it says in

the book. So, please educate me. I'm all ears.

 

Sister Yvonne

[Guest guest]

Welcome aboard, Yvonne ...

 

We do indeed know your aunt! She is a long-time member and active

contributor to this group, always posing worthwhile questions that

provoke excellent discussions.

 

A good place to get up to speed on the "basics of Shaktism" might be

our group's homepage, http://www.shaktisadhana.org ... There are

introductory essays, statements of purpose, archived discussions,

introductions to various goddess forms, etc ...

 

Check it out, then if you have questions, comments, concerns,

post 'em on the board, and we'll take it from there.

 

Again, Welcome!

 

DB

 

, "Yvonne" <aw621@o...> wrote:

> Hi, guys! I am new to this list so I thought I'd introduce myself.

My

> name is Yvonne and I turn 21 next month. I am a college student in

> the United States majoring in comparative religion. My mother is a

> Christian minister, but I abandoned that religion myself a long

time

> ago. I very much prefer what my aunt has been teaching me.

> You guys already know my aunt. She recommended that I join

this

> list to learn more about Shatkism. Her name is Usha. She was born

in

> India but came to the US years ago after she married my uncle.

Wisest

> woman in the entire galaxy, my Auntie Usha. She has taught me

lots,

> and I love her dearly for this. She even taught me not to hate my

mom

> as much as I did years ago.

> So, I have read several books on Hinduism, and I had a course

in

> college on Eastern religions. That covered Hinduism, Buddhism,

> Taoism, Confucianism, and Shinto. But my Auntie Usha says that

> Hinduism as practiced in India is very different from what it says

in

> the book. So, please educate me. I'm all ears.

>

> Sister Yvonne

[Guest guest]

Thanx. I'll check out that webpage and get back to you.

 

Sister Yvonne

[Guest guest]

Okay. I read the webpage you suggested, and most of the links from

it. I already knew most of this stuff. My Auntie Usha has a whole

bookcase full of books on this subject and has let me read most of

them. Still, there are a few things that confuse me.

 

First, what's the purpose of all the names? Sheesh. I have seen

hundreds of names for the Goddess, so many that you could use a

different name in your prayers every day for two or three years. Is

there some benefit to having so many names? No wonder my Auntie Usha

usually says simply "Great Mother" and leaves it at that.

 

Second, my aunt says (and I agree with her) that theological

beliefs are not worth a buffalo turd unless you take them into your

heart and let them be the core of your soul, influencing everything

you do. Every decision you make should be guided by your love for the

Divine. That's what my aunt says. So, my question is, suppose you are

working in an office with dozens of other people. Or working on a

farm or studying chemistry in school. Any sort of everyday setting

you can think of. What will you do differently because you are a

Shakta?

 

Third, what is the relative role of men and women in society?

You say that each woman is an avatar of the Divine, right? Does this

mean that men should be slaves to women? Or does it mean that they

should be equal? I have seen some Christians and Moslems take this

sort of thing and twist it around backwards. They say that women are

special and to be elevated to a pedestal, on a higher plane that men

should look up to. Okay, this sounds fine, but then they use this as

an excuse to deny women the right to vote, the right to hold

important jobs, etc. They say that women being involved in such

things demeans them and lessens their sanctity. Big lie this is, an

underhanded way to make women inferior by pretending they are

superior.

 

Fourth, what sort of rituals do you do? And how often? One of

your websites says that you should worship every day, but every

description I have seen of ceremonies says that they last all night

long. I assume you do sleep once in a while.

 

I hope you don't misinterpret any of this as criticism. Just

trying to learn, that's all. Jai Mahakali!

 

Sister Yvonne

[Guest guest]

"Okay. I read the web page you suggested, and most of the links

from

it. I already knew most of this stuff"

 

There's a saying that goes: what I know is just a handful of

sand,

and what I do know know is the whole lot out there. I have the

privilege of meeting wonderful people some I could term intelligent

and knowledgeable, even they would not dare to say the word "I

have

knew most of this stuff". Most often I would hear from them

"I have

still got a lot to learn". Learning is an ongoing process and in

my

opinion even at our death bed there is something we can learn from.

Sometimes humility goes a long way!!!! Especially in the acquiring of

knowledge. There is another famous saying [this s one of my

favorites]:

 

Education is not just merely the acquiring of skill and knowledge,

though it is important. But education is the cultivation of virtue

and the purification of personal character.

 

 

"First, what's the purpose of all the names? Sheesh. I have seen

hundreds of names for the Goddess, so many that you could use a

different name in your prayers every day for two or three years. Is

there some benefit to having so many names? No wonder my Auntie Usha

usually says simply "Great Mother" and leaves it at that"

 

Group A friends called me Nora. Group B called me Ann. Teachers from

the Fine Arts called me Ashwini Amma [which means Ashwin's mom].

My

close families called me another and yes! I have many other names

too, but they are all me. I am aware of it and so are others. Names

are just attributes we associated with that particular person.

That's

about it.

 

So what is so strange about DEVI having different names? These names

are all her attributes. Yes! Auntie Usha viewed might be right from

her perspective but might not be shared by others.

 

"That's what my aunt says. So, my question is, suppose you are

working in an office with dozens of other people. Or working on a

farm or studying chemistry in school. Any sort of everyday setting

you can think of. What will you do differently because you are a

Shakta?"

 

There is no much different. Weather you are a Shakta or a shivite,

the love for the divine is love. No different, and this is my own

opinion not influence by a third party. Well I love my husband, he is

a man. So therefore logically it is right to say that I should love

other man too but my love for other man are different type of love.

What makes my love of my husband different from that of other man?

Maybe you like to answer this Yvonne, since you have a whole bookcase

full of books, you like to share with us what you have come up with

based from your own point of view or understanding? And I will take

up from there, adding what I THINK you may have left out.

 

I am very fascinated when somebody comes here and says "this

person

says this, and that person says that" and what this person says

must

be true because he/she is related to me. There are times too somebody

comes here and say: My guru says such and such. Etc… My usual

response will be, well yes! Thank you for telling me what your guru

says, but I am more interested to know what you understand from that

sayings. And how can you apply your guru's teaching. YOUR INPUT

and

the Processes that is taking place in your head before external

intervention.

 

"Third, what is the relative role of men and women in society?

You say that each woman is an avatar of the Divine, right? Does this

mean that men should be slaves to women? Or does it mean that they

should be equal? I have seen some Christians and Moslems take this

sort of thing and twist it around backwards. They say that women are

special and to be elevated to a pedestal, on a higher plane that men

should look up to. Okay, this sounds fine, but then they use this as

an excuse to deny women the right to vote, the right to hold

important jobs, etc. They say that women being involved in such

things demeans them and lessens their sanctity. Big lie this is, an

underhanded way to make women inferior by pretending they are

superior."

 

You said you have read our homepage. All these issues are already

been discuss and they are in the homepage: Group Discussion. Maybe

you like to refer to them again? I don't think so this is the

place

to discuss about Christians or Moslem practices. Maybe you like to

take this up at the related groups. You may get better answers there.

[Guest guest]

There is a difference between Hindu Shaktism and Buddhist Shaktism in that

Buddhists practice vipashyana bhavana whereas Hindus do not. There is a form of

vipashyana bhavana that is suitable for Hindus, it is a kind of kayanusmrti and

it is taught by a person called Goenka. I would suggest that you look for your

nearest Goenka centre on your computer and attend the meditation sessions. From

the Buddhist point of view prajna gives rise to bodhi, hence prajna is seen as a

mother. Bhagavan Buddha was wont to appear before Brahmins as Maha Purusha,

which begs the question who or what is Prakrti?

 

The basic answer is Prajnashakti, who is also called Adi-Prajna. If you practice

vipashyana bhavana you will gradually discover all of the answers to your

questions for yourself.

 

P.S. If your read the Bhagavad Gita you will see that Krishna in his theophany

is described as having additional auspicious signs, which could include Bhagavan

Buddha's physical characteristics when appearing as the Maha Purusha. Also

Jatakas such as the Khumba Jataka reveal Krishna as a Chakravartin, and the

Chitta Sutta of the Pali Sutta Pitaka reveals the Chakravartin to be the dying

and resurrected god of vegetation mentioned in Frazer's Golden Bough, and also

in another book called Pagan Christs.This should clear any doubts as to the

physical characteristcs of Chakravartins and Buddhas.

 

LOL

[Guest guest]

> I have the

> privilege of meeting wonderful people some I could term intelligent

> and knowledgeable, even they would not dare to say the word "I

> have knew most of this stuff". Most often I would hear from them

> "I have still got a lot to learn".

 

What I meant was that the webpage covered only the basics, stuff that

I have already seen in other places. Of course I have a lot more to

learn, which is precisely why I came to this list asking questions.

> So what is so strange about DEVI having different names?

 

Thousands of them? Very confusing. I am Yvonne when I am happy,

Yvonne when I am sad, Yvonne when I am angry, Yvonne when I am

gentle. I have many different attributes, but they don't require that

I have different names. Is there some advantage to the Devi having

thousands of names?

> "Third, what is the relative role of men and women in society?

> You say that each woman is an avatar of the Divine, right? Does this

> mean that men should be slaves to women? Or does it mean that they

> should be equal? I have seen some Christians and Moslems take this

> sort of thing and twist it around backwards.

>

> You said you have read our homepage. All these issues are already

> been discuss and they are in the homepage: Group Discussion. Maybe

> you like to refer to them again? I don't think so this is the

> place

> to discuss about Christians or Moslem practices. Maybe you like to

> take this up at the related groups. You may get better answers

there.

 

You missed the point of my question completely. I am not trying to

discuss Christian or Moslem practices. I was using them only as

comparison examples to clarify my meaning. I am trying to get you to

convince me that you are not as hypocritical as they are.

 

Sister Yvonne

[Guest guest]

"Thousands of them? Very confusing. I am Yvonne when I am happy,

Yvonne when I am sad, Yvonne when I am angry, Yvonne when I am

gentle. I have many different attributes, but they don't require that

I have different names. Is there some advantage to the Devi having

thousands of names?"

 

Let me rephrase that again, instead of why DEVI require so many

names, I like to ask Why Nora have so many other names?

 

A] Nora the cook [ as some of my friends who knows her]

Nora who loves to cook

Nora the one who love to cook chicken curry

Nora the one who love to cook chicken curry using BABA curry powder

Nora the one who loves to cook and listen to her radio

Nora the one who loves to listen to her radio and sing while she does

her cooking

Nora the one who loves to listen to her radio, sing and occasionally

dance while doing her cooking

 

B] Nora the volunteer from the home [ as some of the children knows

her ]

Aunty Nora the one who like to sing with us

Aunty Nora the one who loves to bring us biscuits

Aunty Nora the one who love to bring us home to spend the evening

with her

 

These are some of the examples, now what does that tells you. About a

person called Nora. Different people that have encountered her have

known her attributes and thus identify her with that. But all

described a same person and once you read it gives you an idea of the

type of person she is.

 

Lets go back to DEVI. That is what the thousand names is all about.

All telling us the attributes of DEVI. The Different attributes that

the devotees identify her with that is all. They don't expect you

to remember all but these names at least gives you an idea of not

just the different attributes but the aspect of DEVI in her many

forms, thus making you more closer to her and able to understand her

more. And via these names you are able to connect to her more. These

are one of ways we do to get ourselves closer to DEVI.

 

Well yes there are one Yvonne , but Yvonne who is happy have a

different facial expression from Yvonne who is an angry or depress

person. Yvonne who is happy will behave differently from Yvonne who

is a very angry or very depress person.

 

"I am trying to get you to convince me that you are not as

hypocritical as they are"

 

I don't think so I have miss any point here, You have already

said it : You are not as hypocritical as they are, which also means

Christians and Moslem are hypocrites. Is this the place to discuss

such issue here?

[Guest guest]

Hi Yvonne:

 

I think your questions are fair. And I think Nora's answers are

accurate. I'd just add a few comments. For example, you note:

 

*** Thousands of [names]? Very confusing. I am Yvonne when I am

happy, Yvonne when I am sad, Yvonne when I am angry, Yvonne when I

am gentle. I have many different attributes, but they don't require

that I have different names. Is there some advantage to the Devi

having thousands of names? ***

 

There is an advantage only if you perceive an advantage. But the

system has evolved through the millennia in this manner, and so

there might be some wisdom in it after all. The thing is, there are

said to be dozens of devis, all of whom are aspects of the one Great

Devi. In turn, a huge number of those named devis have their own

thousand-name hymns (the most famous is probably Sri Lalita

Sahasranama). Even if you're working from pure memory, it still

takes about an hour minimum to chant any one of these lists. But

once you've finished, you'll feel (even if you still don't

understand) why they exist. There are also 100- (or more commonly

108-) name hymns.

 

If it helps, do as Nora suggested: Think of them as adjectives or

descriptives, rather than "names." When you're not chanting them,

it's instructive to simply read them and reflect upon them. Certain

names might mean nothing to you at the moment; others are likely to

address an essential issue in your life at this moment. Seize on

those names. Choose one that seems custom-tailored to your needs at

the moment. Reflect on her. Feel her characteristics filling you

being. Become her. And watch what happens to your problem.

 

If you still find no resonance in the multiple-name approaches,

there is still the concept of pure bhakti (devotion) to a single

Devi form who represents All to you (i.e. the Ishtadevi). That's

cool too. Whatever floats your boat. In fact, it's wise to choose

(or more accurately, let yourself be chosen by) a particular aspect

of Devi, who will be your personal goddess, friend, confidante,

advisor and comforter. She is, in effect, the "home base" you return

to, regardless of what other poojas and techniques you employ; no

matter what other Devi forms you may choose to work with on

occasion. All of the devis are like facets on a diamond; each has

her own particular qualities and attributes, but all will ultimately

act as your portal to the Whole.

 

Still, just for the sheer experience, or in the spirit of socio-

scientific inquiry, you might want to try chanting Sri Lalita

Sahasranama sometime when you're in the mood for something

different. One of the things I notice in this group sometimes is

that people will intellectually debate the system to death, but

never actually sit down and simply *try* it.

 

The logic of the system, the history, the science, the social

implications -- all of these are really interesting, provocative

subjects that merit discussion. But without the practice, it's like

endlessly reading about swimming, arguing over the fine points of

stroke form, debating the biomechanics involved, arguing over the

distances and speeds that might be possible -- and yet never

actually hopping into the water and seeing for yourself.

 

You conclude: *** I am not trying to discuss Christian or Moslem

practices. ... I am trying to get you to convince me that you are

not as hypocritical as they are."

 

In fact, you have just hit upon one of the biggest differences of

all. We are not here to convince anyone that we are right or better

than any other system. That's why the front page of our group

says: "Come here if you like. Don't come if you don't like. Only try

to see for yourself. Don't blindly accept what others say." That is

pretty much what I was saying above, and it is pretty much the

philosophy of this group.

 

You see, Christians generally want to convince non-Christians that

Christianity is absolutely right; Muslims generally want to convince

non-Muslims that Islam is absolutely right. But in Shaktism, we

welcome you to consider us full of "buffalo turd," as you see fit.

We will still like you just as much, and wish you nothing but the

greatest fulfillment and success in whatever path you decide to

follow. Peace.

 

Aum Maatangyai Namahe

[Guest guest]

Thanx, Nora and Devi Bhakta for the explanations. Thanx also for

being patient with me when I am not clear in my meaning. I shall try

to be clearer in the future so that we don't get side-tracked again.

 

TO Bogman: Thanx for the suggestion, but you lost me with all the

Sanskrit terminology. I wanted to learn Sanskrit, but they don't have

classes in it at my college. Siamese and Romanian, yes, but Sanskrit

no.

 

Another question: Are you guys vegetarian? I was told when I was

little that all Hindus were vegetarian, but then I learned that that

is not true. Tantrics eat meat as part of their ceremonies, and the

Hindus on Bali eat pork but not beef. One book I read said that

vegetarianism is basically a Jainist idea tht has spread to many

Hindus, but that it is not intrinsic to Hinduism. Is this right?

 

Thanx again for helping educate a poor ignorant American girl

just trying to learn.

 

Sister Yvonne