The Pentagon and the Pentacle

[Guest guest]

This article, from Beliefnet.com, is not strictly a Shaktism-related

article, but it does mention the "warrior goddess" traditions of

Hinduism, and I believe it might be of interst also to our non-Hindu

members:

 

THE PENTAGON AND THE PENTACLE

As more Pagans serve in the military will the Pagan community evolve

beyond its hippie roots?

 

By Carl McColman

 

In the spring of 1999, Georgia congressman Bob Barr sent shockwaves

throughout the Pagan community when he repeatedly attacked the

presence of Witchcraft on U.S. military bases. Upset by the

existence of a visible and apparently successful Pagan organization

at Fort Hood in Texas, Barr introduced legislation to prohibit the

practice of Wicca or any other form of Witchcraft at Defense

Department facilities. Barr's motion went nowhere in Congress--and

it resulted primarily in galvanizing Pagans to become more aware of

our precarious status as a minority religion.

 

But the Barr fiasco also served to highlight the quiet revolution

that has been occurring in Paganism, as more and more Pagans enter

the armed forces (and increasing numbers of military personnel

embrace the old religions).

 

I'll admit it: I didn't always think "military" and "Pagan" went

together. As someone whose first encounter with Paganism was through

reading Starhawk's 1979 ecofeminist manifesto The Spiral Dance, for

me being a Pagan has always seemed to mean something similar to

being a pacifist, or at least a fire-breathing liberal. After all,

the Goddess seems so, well, nonviolent, particularly in her

Aphrodisian make-love-not-war guise. But in the wake of the Barr

controversy, I, and many other granola Pagans, developed a new

appreciation for the fact that our spiritual path has also been

embraced by thousands--if not hundreds of thousands--of U.S. service

men and women.

 

These Pagans often identify as warriors, blending ancient or earth-

centered spirituality with the ethics and ideals of the martial

arts. A leading Pagan warrior is Kerr Cuhulain, a Vancouver

policeman and former Air Force officer whose books The Wiccan

Warrior and Full Contact Magick celebrate the ancient -- and still

relevant -- connection between primal spirituality and the path of

the warrior.

 

Warrior spirituality recognizes that it is a limitation to see the

Goddess as some sort of romantic peacenik. Try convincing mythical

Goddesses like the Hindu Kali Ma, the Irish Morrigu, or the Greek

Athena that Pagan spirituality is all about peace and love. Each of

these figures are ferocious, take-no-prisoner warrior queens, far

more concerned with security and self-defense than with playing nice

in the multi-cultural sandbox.

 

And it's not just the Pagan Goddesses who are tough. Gods and heroes

from ancient myth often embody the heroic ideals of bravery, valour,

strength and skill, all woven into a fierce determination to defend

their people and protect the land. Indeed, it is the sheer idealism

of such virtues that drive the warrior ethic in modern Paganism.

 

"We live in very dangerous times," says Hawk, a Pagan woman who

describes being a warrior as central to her path--and who feels

frustrated at the attitudes held by some non-military Pagans. "Pagan

warriors are working very hard to keep our people safe and our

borders protected. Many times, in fact, most of the time, not only

is it a thankless duty, but it's also frowned upon by many in our

own magickal community."

 

URL: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/138/story_13856_1.html

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much for an interesting article. This is a very

important issue here in the USA at present, because President Bush

has made comments about wanting to prohibit paganism in the US

military.

As for all pagans being pacifists, I point out one fact to dispel

that belief: Adolf Hitler was pagan. The word in the current context

indicates simply the various religious of Europe before those nations

became Christian, or else modern attempts to resurrect these ancient

beliefs. Each nation in Europe had its own beliefs. Celtic religion

was different from Scandinavian religion which was different from

Greek which was different from Slavic.

German beliefs were frequently very war-like, with myths about

brave and valiant heroes single-handedly defeating huge armies of

trolls and dragons and other beings. Hitler made much use of this in

his speeches, resurrecting ancient beliefs about invincible German

warriors who would be rewarded by eternity in Valhalla.

Please do not misunderstand my point. I am not saying that pagans

in the USA today believe this sort of thing. I have met many, and

most practice Celtic or Greek or Roman or Egyptian viewpoints,

sometimes with some Hinduism and Native American beliefs added. Many

are pacifists, but not all. My intent is simply to illustrate that

there is a wide variety of beliefs included in the term pagan. I wish

that Mr. Bush and people like him could understand this.

 

Sister Usha

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Sister Usha Devi,

 

 

I must say that it is breathtaking to read this cavalier statement:

 

"As for all pagans being pacifists, I point out one fact to dispel

> that belief: Adolf Hitler was pagan."

 

First, it is good practice to capitalize the name of a faith like

Hindu, Christian, Pagan. It indicates some measure of respect. This

may soften the blow when you continue on to number a mass murderer

among them.

 

Second, there is a lot of information regarding Hitler and religion

easily available on the net. I direct you to:

 

http://www.ffrf.org/pennstation/hitler.html

 

where you will quickly read that Hitler, up to his death, personally

identified as a Catholic. This has been as much a source of

discomfort among Catholics, as reading your input was to me, a Pagan.

 

Hitler wrote extensively about his connection to the work of Jesus

Christ in eliminating the Jews. I'm sure you'll take the time to read

it there on that website.

 

We do know that he also drew on more ancient Germanic cultural

references to raise a sense of an ancient racial heritage and

nationalism to support his agenda.

 

This DOES NOT MAKE HIM A PAGAN.

 

I'm sorry, did I shout?

 

My point is, that tossing Hitler into somebody's group is like

punching them in the gut. I would prefer that it be done with at

least some justification and not at all done blithely. It's a serious

allegation, not a party time fun fact.

 

As a Pagan I can tell you that, particularly in the U.S. we face a

great deal of misunderstanding and predjudice. We're frequently

lumped in with Satanists, much to our dismay. We're hardly ever

lumped in with the Hindus, which would at least be much more

accurate.

 

Just like any other group we have our problems and odd members, and

odd folks who call themselves members, much to our surprise.

 

With all these other challenges, it is important to note that Hitler

is not one of ours.

 

You are right, there are a wide variety of beliefs that encompass the

term Pagan, much like Christian or Hindu.

 

There are many many better examples of Pagan warrior culture and

ethics than trying to pick up Hitler.

 

Why can't we talk about the Vikings? The Irish Kings?

 

I think it's important to avoid a hot button like Hitler. It really

doesn't even serve the example properly.

 

Because he was Catholic.

 

Or, at least, he said he was.

 

Whew.

 

Blessings,

 

Paulie

 

, "Sister Usha Devi"

<sisterusha> wrote:

> Thank you very much for an interesting article. This is a very

> important issue here in the USA at present, because President Bush

> has made comments about wanting to prohibit paganism in the US

> military.

> As for all pagans being pacifists, I point out one fact to

dispel

> that belief: Adolf Hitler was pagan. The word in the current

context

> indicates simply the various religious of Europe before those

nations

> became Christian, or else modern attempts to resurrect these

ancient

> beliefs. Each nation in Europe had its own beliefs. Celtic religion

> was different from Scandinavian religion which was different from

> Greek which was different from Slavic.

> German beliefs were frequently very war-like, with myths about

> brave and valiant heroes single-handedly defeating huge armies of

> trolls and dragons and other beings. Hitler made much use of this

in

> his speeches, resurrecting ancient beliefs about invincible German

> warriors who would be rewarded by eternity in Valhalla.

> Please do not misunderstand my point. I am not saying that

pagans

> in the USA today believe this sort of thing. I have met many, and

> most practice Celtic or Greek or Roman or Egyptian viewpoints,

> sometimes with some Hinduism and Native American beliefs added.

Many

> are pacifists, but not all. My intent is simply to illustrate that

> there is a wide variety of beliefs included in the term pagan. I

wish

> that Mr. Bush and people like him could understand this.

>

> Sister Usha

[Guest guest]

I am very sorry that I offended you, but you apparently did not read

my entire posting. I purposely made it a point to place some distance

between Hitler and present-day pagans.

And I maintain that my statement was entirely accurate. Hitler

was lying when he said that he was Catholic, just as he lied about

everything else. His intent was to create a new religion that may

have used the name of Jesus but twisting the legacy of Jesus to suit

his own purposes. Hitler's beliefs about morality and spirituality

and everything else were completely alien to Christanity.

 

Sister Usha

[Guest guest]

My Auntie Usha is right. When the Nazis conquered France, the SS

purposely went around burning all the Catholic churches. They were on

a holy war to wipe out Christianity. Nasty people, certainly not

Christians themselves.

 

Sister Yvonne

[Guest guest]

As someone having the greatest respect for both Prainbow and Sister

Usha, I would not like to see this disagreement escalate

unnecessarily.

 

I would clarify that Usha is herself the moderator of "Divinely

Feminine," a categorized under "Paganism." I do not

believe that she intends to equate Hitler's philosophy with Paganism.

Usha's post must be read in the context of the post she is replying

to, which critiqued the Bush Administration's apparent feeling that

Pagan soldiers wouldn't be sufficiently warlike. The author of that

critique commented that Bush & Co, were not aware that Paganism

subsumes a wide array of belief systems, and that a warrior ethic is

often present. I read Usha's response as a general agreement with

that assertion.

 

The mention of Hitler is always sure to raise hackles; but I believe

Usha's intention was to reference Hitler's well-known fascination

with rediscovering (or rather, inventing from scratch) and reclaiming

a heroic past, with German civilization at its center. To do that, he

drew upon pre-Christian (i.e. Pagan) Germanic lore. He also

appropriated Max Muller's then-fashionable theory of the Aryan

Invasion of India, deciding that the said Aryans were Germanic

warriors.

 

Hitler, as most people know, was a "failed artist" before he got into

politics. Actually, as "The New Yorker" magazine noted in a 2003

feature, he was a pretty decent artist, with a sharp eye for design.

Sure, he ended up failing miserably as a politician, as a leader, and

as a human being -- but as a designer? His most famous design is

still one of the most recognizable symbols of the 20th century: The

Nazi flag, his personal creation. Its central element, the swastika,

was picked up from India, of course -- where, to this day, you'll see

swastikas painted on doorways, on the palms of Lakshmi and Ganesh, on

the hems of village girls' skirts at country fairs. No matter: Hitler

didn't think of the design as Indian; he thought of it as Aryan. And

he didn't much care what the Hindus thought it meant; as a designer,

he just couldn't resist how effective it looked!

 

But here, I must part company with Usha, somewhat. I do not think

Hitler was a practicing Pagan. I think he used Pagan motifs to his

personal and political advantage. I think he was a master of symbolic

expropriation. He was very much a man of his time; and in those Euro-

centric days (as now for that matter), men of political ambition

didn't dabble with "fringe" religions. Was Hitler a Christian? No

more than he was a Pagan. He used Christian motifs for his own

advantage as well. He was not a man of religion; he was a man of

anger, hatred, and violence. But throughout his life, Prainbow is

correct to point out that he repeatedly paid lip service to the

Catholic religion of his birth. For a fascinating account of this,

please have a look at this rather thoroughly researched essay:

 

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Creationism/Essays/Hitler.shtml

 

Beyond that, I would ask that these two wonderful women -- Prainbow

and Usha -- shake hands, and realize that their positions are really

more similar than they are different! ;-)

 

Aum Maatangyai Namahe

[Guest guest]

respected Devi Bhatka

pranam

i want to say that the swastika in nazi flag is not the swastik as we have in

India, it is in the reverse direction

therefore it may not be equated with our swastika

regards

opseth

 

Devi Bhakta <devi_bhakta wrote:

As someone having the greatest respect for both Prainbow and Sister

Usha, I would not like to see this disagreement escalate

unnecessarily.

 

I would clarify that Usha is herself the moderator of "Divinely

Feminine," a categorized under "Paganism." I do not

believe that she intends to equate Hitler's philosophy with Paganism.

Usha's post must be read in the context of the post she is replying

to, which critiqued the Bush Administration's apparent feeling that

Pagan soldiers wouldn't be sufficiently warlike. The author of that

critique commented that Bush & Co, were not aware that Paganism

subsumes a wide array of belief systems, and that a warrior ethic is

often present. I read Usha's response as a general agreement with

that assertion.

 

The mention of Hitler is always sure to raise hackles; but I believe

Usha's intention was to reference Hitler's well-known fascination

with rediscovering (or rather, inventing from scratch) and reclaiming

a heroic past, with German civilization at its center. To do that, he

drew upon pre-Christian (i.e. Pagan) Germanic lore. He also

appropriated Max Muller's then-fashionable theory of the Aryan

Invasion of India, deciding that the said Aryans were Germanic

warriors.

 

Hitler, as most people know, was a "failed artist" before he got into

politics. Actually, as "The New Yorker" magazine noted in a 2003

feature, he was a pretty decent artist, with a sharp eye for design.

Sure, he ended up failing miserably as a politician, as a leader, and

as a human being -- but as a designer? His most famous design is

still one of the most recognizable symbols of the 20th century: The

Nazi flag, his personal creation. Its central element, the swastika,

was picked up from India, of course -- where, to this day, you'll see

swastikas painted on doorways, on the palms of Lakshmi and Ganesh, on

the hems of village girls' skirts at country fairs. No matter: Hitler

didn't think of the design as Indian; he thought of it as Aryan. And

he didn't much care what the Hindus thought it meant; as a designer,

he just couldn't resist how effective it looked!

 

But here, I must part company with Usha, somewhat. I do not think

Hitler was a practicing Pagan. I think he used Pagan motifs to his

personal and political advantage. I think he was a master of symbolic

expropriation. He was very much a man of his time; and in those Euro-

centric days (as now for that matter), men of political ambition

didn't dabble with "fringe" religions. Was Hitler a Christian? No

more than he was a Pagan. He used Christian motifs for his own

advantage as well. He was not a man of religion; he was a man of

anger, hatred, and violence. But throughout his life, Prainbow is

correct to point out that he repeatedly paid lip service to the

Catholic religion of his birth. For a fascinating account of this,

please have a look at this rather thoroughly researched essay:

 

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Creationism/Essays/Hitler.shtml

 

Beyond that, I would ask that these two wonderful women -- Prainbow

and Usha -- shake hands, and realize that their positions are really

more similar than they are different! ;-)

 

Aum Maatangyai Namahe

 

 

 

/

 

 

 

 

India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download

now.

 

 

[Guest guest]

>I would clarify that Usha is herself the moderator of "Divinely

>Feminine," a categorized under "Paganism." I do not

>believe that she intends to equate Hitler's philosophy with Paganism.

 

Our group is Divinely Female, not Divinely Feminine. The list is

called divinely-female. We also sponsor several other lists.

I thought that I made it clear that I intended to include Hitler

under the desciption of pagan only under the very broad definition

that I recited in my original post. I went on to say that I know of

no present-day person calling her/himself pagan who shares his views.

I find it quite frutstrating when someone reads only part of my

writing but not another part.

Please allow me to explain why the divinely-female list is

categorized under pagan. I was born and raised Hindu in Calcutta. My

mother taught me to worship Kali. My husband was born Christian in

the USA, but he abandoned his childhood beliefs many years ago. After

we married, he began to worship the Devi by my side. At the same

time, however, we moved to the United States and I began exploring

other belief systems. I came to the opinion that Isis and Diana and

Athena and Coatlicue and Virgin Mary and many other names used for

the female divine around the world are all simply additional names

for Devi.

About five years ago, my husband and I decided to create a group

to teach our philosophy to others. This we called Divinely Female. It

is Hindu in its basic inspiration, yet open to the idea of using

ceremonies honoring Isis or Coatlicue or any of the other names from

other traditions. Indeed, we encourage members to write their own

ceremonies based on their own personal interpretions of their faiths.

But required that we pick a category. It seemed to me

that by including these other names for Devi we had left traditional

Hinduism. Pagan was the only other category that seemed even close.

 

Sister Usha

[Guest guest]

The left-twisting swastika is used by some of the Native Americans as

well as in India. You can see it in some of the artwork of the Hopi

and Zuni peoples of Arizona and New Mexico. I read somewhere that the

right-twisting swastika was used in medieval Europe. I forget what it

meant and who used it, but somebody did.

 

Sister Yvonne

[Guest guest]

*** Our group is Divinely Female, not Divinely Feminine. The list is

called divinely-female ***

 

Sorry, Usha ... typing error :-p

 

DB

[Guest guest]

Blessed Sister Usha Devi,

 

I must say, I did read your entire post, twice.

 

However, the use of Hitler in a dialog is simply bound to arouse

controversy. Perhaps you didn't realize this. However, in my culture

Hitler is completely demonized for his use of power to exterminate

millions of people.

 

The use of Hitler is so very controversial that it is not surprising

that it overshadows other items in a post. The emotional impact of

Hitler is so powerful that it cannot be equated to other, less

emotionally charged items in a post.

 

Attributing Hitler to another person's religion is taken to be a

great insult here. It is a sign that that religion is considered to

contain (possibly to be founded on or to foster) the worst possible

elements of human existence and no other statements can soften that

insult in my culture.

 

I would like to simply believe that you did not intend to imply such

a terrible thing about my faith. However, I have read the defense of

your position and have read about how "far from Jesus" Hitler was and

how very "nice" Christians are. This implies to me a bias that puts

Christianity and the "Christ" at one end of a spectrum and Pagans and

their faith at the other.

 

Again, I sincerely hope that this is a misinterpretation on my part.

It is so very easy to be sensitive about these matters of personal

faith.

 

I believe, from your other writings, that a woman who has adopted so

many European Pagan Goddesses and sees in Them as I see the many many

beautiful and personal facets of the ultimate Divine; does not

believe that Paganism can, on the balance, be linked to the

atrocities of Nazi Germany.

 

As for a good example of the Pagan warrior tradition, one need look

no further than the Vikings, or the Warrior Queens of the Celtic

people.

 

Women who worshipped the Goddesses led my people into battle for

centuries, before they were stripped of their rights and power by

Christian doctrine. They terrified and thus defeated Roman armies

that were much better armed and trained. The return of the image of

the powerful Divine Feminine, I believe, will help to balance my

culture in the time to come.

 

Bright Blessings,

 

prainbow

 

 

 

, "Sister Usha Devi"

<sisterusha> wrote:

> >I would clarify that Usha is herself the moderator of "Divinely

> >Feminine," a categorized under "Paganism." I do not

> >believe that she intends to equate Hitler's philosophy with

Paganism.

>

> Our group is Divinely Female, not Divinely Feminine. The list is

> called divinely-female. We also sponsor several other lists.

> I thought that I made it clear that I intended to include

Hitler

> under the desciption of pagan only under the very broad definition

> that I recited in my original post. I went on to say that I know of

> no present-day person calling her/himself pagan who shares his

views.

> I find it quite frutstrating when someone reads only part of my

> writing but not another part.

> Please allow me to explain why the divinely-female list is

> categorized under pagan. I was born and raised Hindu in Calcutta.

My

> mother taught me to worship Kali. My husband was born Christian in

> the USA, but he abandoned his childhood beliefs many years ago.

After

> we married, he began to worship the Devi by my side. At the same

> time, however, we moved to the United States and I began exploring

> other belief systems. I came to the opinion that Isis and Diana and

> Athena and Coatlicue and Virgin Mary and many other names used for

> the female divine around the world are all simply additional names

> for Devi.

> About five years ago, my husband and I decided to create a

group

> to teach our philosophy to others. This we called Divinely Female.

It

> is Hindu in its basic inspiration, yet open to the idea of using

> ceremonies honoring Isis or Coatlicue or any of the other names

from

> other traditions. Indeed, we encourage members to write their own

> ceremonies based on their own personal interpretions of their

faiths.

> But required that we pick a category. It seemed to me

> that by including these other names for Devi we had left

traditional

> Hinduism. Pagan was the only other category that seemed even close.

>

> Sister Usha

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much for your kind words of reconciliation. It appears

that we agree in substance and have been arguing over definitions of

words.

I repeat what I have already said two or three times. I never

meant to suggest that Hitler practiced anything resembling present-

day Paganism. I never said this and I did not mean this. You yourself

said in your message today that there were many warriors in ancient

Celtic and Germanic (Viking, etc.) mythology and tradition. It is

with these that I was linking Mr. Hitler, not with you nor with

anyone else worshipping paganism today. The early Christians referred

to such Celts and vikings as pagans. I was using their definition of

the term, not yours.

As for the following:

> I have read the defense of

> your position and have read about how "far from Jesus" Hitler was

and

> how very "nice" Christians are. This implies to me a bias that puts

> Christianity and the "Christ" at one end of a spectrum and Pagans

and

> their faith at the other.

>

> Again, I sincerely hope that this is a misinterpretation on my

part.

 

Yes, this is a misinterpretation. I have much admiration for Jesus

and his teachings. He was a wise philosopher who taught love and

charity and tolerance for all. Present-day Christians would do well

to stop worshipping him and instead listen to his teachings. However,

I also have much respect for present-day Paganism. I have met many

here in the USA, and they are good, honest, respectable people who

wish only to worship the Divine in peace, not hurting anyone else.

They seek to recall the wisdom of the ancients, people of old who

often were wiser than many people of the present. I have tried to

learn what I can from both Christianity and Paganism.

I pray that this now settles the matter. Let us move on to

another topic. Peace and love to you always, my friend.

 

Sister Usha

[Guest guest]

Hitler's swastika originated with the Freicorp and it was only used by Hitler to

emphasise his anti-communist stance. For Freicorp Hussar toy soldiers try

www.wargamesfoundary.com. Hitler was a Catholic, his philosophy was derived

partly from Christianity and partly from neo-Darwinism. A book called Warrant

For Genocide charts the origins of anti-Semitism from Christianity. It was

fashionable with the pre-Raphaelitism to use heroic figures from the past in

order to contrast them with the unheroic capitalists of the present, Hitler just

cashed in on this artistic trend. Hitler also used pageants from German history

in order to emphasise his nationalism, after all Hitler was a National

Socialist. Hitler was in fact upon a crusade against communism, and the concept

of crusade is Christian, not Pagan. The Nazi flag was I think actually invented

by a dentist. The colours red, white, and black were the same as the imperial

colours before WW1. Hitler was of course a Christian, and a Catholic at that.

Hitler was never excommunicated. An excommunication from Rome in the early days

might have prevented Hitler's rise to power. The word pagan, from Latin paganus,

was Roman army slang for a civilian. The Christian used the term because as

Christians they belonged to the Church militant. Please let's stick to facts,

especially when discussing Hitler and Nazism.

[Guest guest]

I can vouch for my Auntie Usha not being anti-Pagan. You know her

only from a few emails. I have known her all my life, and she is the

most open and tolerant person you ever want to meet. For about 7

years now, she has been tutoring me on religion and spirituality. She

has taught me lots of Hindu stuff, but she has also encouraged me to

read books on Wicca, and on ancient mythology (Greek, Celtic,

Egyptian, Sumerian, Hawaiian, African, and whatever else I can find).

If she were anti-Pagan, why would she encourage me to study all this

stuff?

The one thing that gets her pissed (= American slang

meaning "very angry") is people attacking each other and insulting

each other. She sincerely tries to listen and learn from other

people, even when they disagree with her. She has even taught me not

to hate my mother. My mother is a Christian minister, and when I was

a teen I hated her and her religion really fierce. But my Auntie Usha

taught me to be more relaxed about that. I have learned so very much

from her, and you guys should listen to her, too.

 

Sister Yvonne

 

Note by Moderator:

 

Its so nice to have such a teacher. You are indeed lucky.

Yes I also would get "pissed off" if people attack each other and starts

insulting. Let us not do it.

Freedom of expression does not include personal attacks. So lets all refrain

from that.

[Guest guest]

Please let's stick to facts, especially when discussing Hitler and

Nazism.

 

Yes, by all means let's stick to the facts, and yours are way off.

Did you read one article on the Nazis and now you think you're an

expert? I had a whole college course at my university (one of the

best universities in the United States) in which we studied Nazi

Germany for a whole 4-month semester. The professor teaching the

course was a Jew who lost his father plus 6 aunts and uncles in the

Holocaust.

Hitler was born Catholic, but his beliefs as an adult had nothing

to do with Catholicism, not the foggiest little bit. The anti-

Semetism was not religious-based. Yes, there are some Christians who

hate Jews because of the "They killed Jesus" nonsense, but that is

not what Hitler believed. His anit-Semetism was racial, based on

Social-Darwinian belief in survival of the strongest. Note (and this

is important) in other countries in Europe that persecuted Jews, the

Jews could save themselves by converting to Christianity. Not true in

Nazi Germany.

The Nazis attacked Christianity wherever they went. They burned

churches all over France, and threw thousands of priests and nuns

into the concentration camps. Many Catholic priests and nuns died in

the gas chambers alongside Jews, Communists, and gypsies.

So, to blame Christianity for the Holocaust is just plain

ignorant. You really should learn more about a subject before

lecturing people about it.

Have a nice day.

 

Sister Usha

 

Note by moderator:

 

Is this really essential?

In the interests of freedom of expression this post is being allowed.

But lets understand that pointing finger towards someone three fingers are

pointing towarsd yourself.

As a matter of fact, for whatever reason, every group - social; cultural and

religious - have persecuted others.

Christians everywhere before and now. They went on rampage in South America and

Africa - destoyed cultures; so did muslims - remember the sacking of the great

library of Alexandria; so did and does Jews; Hindus persecuted each other in the

name of caste (but never another religion till recently - even now it is the

hardline fringe only)----

I once heard a caucasian say that the africans have no culture worth its name -

I said "true after destroying the african civilisation it is easy to say they

have no culture." and as Bishop Desmond Tutu said "the white man had the book

and we had the land. White man gaus the book and took our land" or something to

that effect. I can go on and on.

But then I am not blaming anyone for anything. It was all basically politics and

religion was used as a tool that is all.

It has been going on. It will go on. so lets try to reduce it and not fight over

nicities. I do not know much about hitler except that he was evil. To kill

anyone is wrong.

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