Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Let me preface by saying that I am not trolling, I am asking questions of the realities of politics upon religion and vice versa because everything eventually impinges upon everything else. Recently in the NY Times a story described how dalits whop converted to Christianity were not allowed into mass on Sunday because higher caste Chritians would not sit with hem. The priests didn't want a riot so kept the low class Christians out of church. See http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/1238549.html Caste is a reality of Indian society. I don't understand what Indian could deny this. But that's not the issue. At issue is whether those Shaktas here fet they could embrase the dalits as equals. I received some good and affirmative answers. This is what I really wanted to know. That said, varna is very much a part of Brahmanism, or of the Arya Vedic religion. I'm not sure to what degree people know the history of Vedism. An interesting aside is how Aryans split into two factions which invaded different areas (not sure of dates off hand) The original unified group practiced the religion of the Mazdayasni-Zarathushtri. Two languages were used the Avesta and Sanskrit. This group split and the Sanskrit group called the others deities Asuras after Ahura. While the Avestan called the deities of the Vedas devils after devas. See http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/1605/shambhala.html At any rate let me answer your questions Mary Ann: > Message: 3 > Sat, 17 Jan 2004 18:29:16 -0000 > "Mary Ann" <maryann > Re: Caste > > Hello: > > Comparisons are being drawn between what's going on in the > U.S. government now and fascism, and that isn't far-fetched, > either. The fact that rich privileged families mean people are > automatically "high ranking" is definitely true here, especially > evident in the Bush lineage (and with his brother being the > governor in the state where problems occurred in the voting > process, I'd say more doubts were cast than votes!). ----More like Oligarchy than fascism as of yet. > > Please pardon my ignorance, but I do not understand what you > are saying about Gandhi's role in India in terms of religion and > spirituality. I know that he practiced the yamas and niyamas, and > bramacharya, based on what I heard in his abridged > autobiography on tape. ----Gandhi was despised for his role in dividing Pakistand out of India and allowing the Muslims to practice their religion with autonomy. The forerunners of the present BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) political party assasinated him. The BJP is an ipso facto fascist Hindu Brahmanical organization devoted to ethnic cleansing and was directly influenced by Hitler and his Third Reich. Was Gandhi not supportive of tantra? ----Not really at issue. Is > Sri Vidya based on the Vedas, and Arya varna on something > else? -----Sri Vidya is based on early native Indian religions called Dravidian religions. However it was developed during the ascendency of tantra during the 8th-12th centuries. Arya Varna is the birth based caste system supposedly abolished by Indias constitution but still basically the way things are. Does only one system have tantra as an aspect of it? ----Tantra and Vedism are different. If interested please do more research. It's a big subject. But can either Sri Vidya or Arya varna > be considered oppressive to women or to the Divine Female India is oppressive to women. Though not true in all cases, still such things as sati, arranged marriages, and so on are commonplace. Not sure what the reason whether religion or what. > (even if women were/are active in it as it was/is)? Is it possible > for you to answer these questions without my needing to read > several sets of encyclopedias to understand? > > It's true that raising the spectre of Hitler or Naziism is a hot > button that causes people to attack and defend. But Hitler and > the Nazis were/are part of the human community, so we can all > consider them to be of us, and recognize that such extremists > and extremes exist everywhere, including within. ---But my point was that the BJP which is gaining influence in India is a racially motivated and fascist organization and is based on varna, Brahmanism, and is Hindu. And it's a problem for all freedom loving liberals. It's the version of US neo-cons minus any real restriction in action. ---Anyway, over and out for me on this topic. My motivation is because Maharishi Mahesh Yogi recently has "damned democracy" and seems to hate everything Western. Maharishi: "Damn democracy" Maharishi then turned to the administration of society, and said that groups of Yogic Flyers will dramatically improve governmental achievement by preventing and eliminating problems. But Maharishi also dismissed current systems of administration, which, he said, have failed to create an ideal society. Maharishi singled out democracy because "it tears apart the nation, it destroys the culture, and it creates so many divisions within the national population. "My advice to the people is 'damn democracy.' Come back to the most natural system of administration, which governs the whole universe. The infinitely diversified galactic universe is governed with such great harmony and success. Now human society can be perfectly administered in that same way." See http://www.alltm.org/pages/18sept02.html If old TMers care then read here http://www.geocities.com/bbrigante/party.html As a Maharishi International University graduate I was seriously oppressed by Maharishi's messages which damned the West and which basically foretell of his desire to recreate the Brahminical religion of yesteryear but in the world at large. Though it seems like a pipedream I have to wonder if this is what the political end run of Hinduism is? So you see my delimma, if you care. Ones religion determines where they stand on politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 According to the Buddhist Tantras humanity is divided into five psychological types depending upon the prevailing emotional content of the individual psycho-physical (namarupa) make up of the personality. The shuddhisatyatma of each psychological type is veiled by klesha (karmic pollution) of the appropriate colour. The caste system was once practiced by all Indo-European nations but it has been abandoned by all Indo-European speaking peoples except North India. The caste system was based upon a twofold division between the upper caste (twice-born or patrician) Pasturists and the lower caste agriculturalists (once born or plebeians). Marriage between the castes was restricted and both castes ate separately (above and below the salt). The reason being that the agriculturalists touched Mother Earth (Mata Artha in Sanskrit) and were thus weakened by femininity. Each of the two major castes had its sub-castes, such as the godi, flamenes, brahmanah, etc., thegns, nobles, kshatriyas, etc., and so on. When the blue eyed blond Indo-Europeans encountered the dark complexioned Neolithic Arab farmers of Europe, and the Tamils or Dravidians of India further divisions occurred. In India many new castes arose but in Europe and Western Asia new Indo-European nations arose from miscegenation, such as the Kurds, Armenians, Georgians, Ossetians, Slavs, Celts, Italics, Teutons, Veluvians, and so on. Interestingly enough the Godi of Iceland and the Brahmins of India are the only surviving members of the hereditary Indo-European priesthood. The caste system is rather old hat and should be disregarded, as it is by the Buddhist community in India and elsewhere. The only purpose it served, if it had a purpose, was to provide the right background into which Bhagavan Buddha was born, but after the birth of Bhagavan Buddha the caste system had served its purpose and was no longer required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 "My advice to the people is 'damn democracy.' Come back to the most natural system of administration, which governs the whole universe. The infinitely diversified galactic universe is governed with such great harmony and success. Now human society can be perfectly administered in that same way." Apparently those who are wise in many things can be narrow-minded and arrogant. No human who has ever lived on this earth has ever known the mind of the Divine, not entirely, not perfectly, not completely. Every person has a small piece of the wisdom of the universe, but no one person has it all, and anyone who believes s/he does is a fool. Thus no one person should be allowed to have the sort of absolute mundane political power that Maharishi advocates in this statement. Sister Usha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Dear friends, Is the lalata sahasrnamam word swantintarai namaha wrong.please comment with warm regards shankar --- Sister Usha Devi <sisterusha wrote: > "My advice to the people is 'damn democracy.' Come > back to the most > natural > system of administration, which governs the whole > universe. The > infinitely > diversified galactic universe is governed with such > great harmony and > success. Now human society can be perfectly > administered in that same > way." > > Apparently those who are wise in many things can be > narrow-minded and > arrogant. No human who has ever lived on this earth > has ever known > the mind of the Divine, not entirely, not perfectly, > not completely. > Every person has a small piece of the wisdom of the > universe, but no > one person has it all, and anyone who believes s/he > does is a fool. > Thus no one person should be allowed to have the > sort of absolute > mundane political power that Maharishi advocates in > this statement. > > Sister Usha > > Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 SriVidya and Shakta tantras recognize the caste system. It is not uncommon to find an ancient text of Srividya or any tantra prescribing certain mantras for certain castes. As an example: A tantra may say something like a mantra x is good for practice for ppl of a certain caste y. There is no Aryan religion and Dravidian religion. There are just two different traditions of the same ppl(Indians) namely Vedic tradition and Tantric tradition. And as said b4 the concept of caste exists in both, except that tantra can be practiced by all castes while the vedic tradition is out of reach for certain castes. , "Rudra Joe" <rudra_joe@c...> wrote: > Is > > Sri Vidya based on the Vedas, and Arya varna on something > > else? > > > -----Sri Vidya is based on early native Indian religions called Dravidian > religions. However it was developed during the ascendency of tantra during > the 8th-12th centuries. Arya Varna is the birth based caste system > supposedly abolished by Indias constitution but still basically the way > things are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 swantintarai namaha = swatantraayai NamaH = I bow to the independent one . I think krishnamoorthy shankar <junk74_in wrote:Dear friends, Is the lalata sahasrnamam word swantintarai namaha wrong.please comment with warm regards shankar --- Sister Usha Devi <sisterusha wrote: > "My advice to the people is 'damn democracy.' Come > back to the most > natural > system of administration, which governs the whole > universe. The > infinitely > diversified galactic universe is governed with such > great harmony and > success. Now human society can be perfectly > administered in that same > way." > > Apparently those who are wise in many things can be > narrow-minded and > arrogant. No human who has ever lived on this earth > has ever known > the mind of the Divine, not entirely, not perfectly, > not completely. > Every person has a small piece of the wisdom of the > universe, but no > one person has it all, and anyone who believes s/he > does is a fool. > Thus no one person should be allowed to have the > sort of absolute > mundane political power that Maharishi advocates in > this statement. > > Sister Usha > > Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus / Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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