Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Tina Turner is an African-American singer and sometime actress. She made many of her hits with her husband Ike Turner, who allegedly beat her until their divorce. Two of her song hits that come immediately to mind are "Rollin' Down the River" and "What's Love Got to Do With It?" If you rent the movie of "Tommy," the rock musical by The Who, you can see Tina Turner sing, dance, and act the role of The Acid Queen. As The Acid Queen she is surrounded by poisonous snakes, bones and skulls, and assorted drug-taking paraphernalia. I thought, when I saw it many years ago, that it was vaguely reminiscent of some of the symbolism attached to Shiva as Bhairava. Tina Turner might be mistaken (by a Westerner) for a native of the Indian subcontinent. She's very charismatic, and still has "the best legs in rock and roll." She won't be able to show them off much if she's wearing a saree, though... I'm sure most Hindus would prefer Shakti be played by an actress from India, however. I'll withhold judgement until I see the movie. -- Len/ Kalipadma On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 04:05:42 -0000 "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy writes: > "I can see Tina as a Goddess! I always thought she was beautiful, > with strength and grit!" > > Tina Turner !!!!! oh no! no! no! why Tina Turner? Isnt there anybody > > else..... !!! > > > hang on now .......... who is Tina Turner? > ______________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 She doesnt look like an Indian. She isnt even close. I see no reason even for westerners to confuse her with an Indian. She is just like any other African American. If the director chose her to play shakti, that is sickest thing I can imagine after seeing her pictures on google. Rgds , kalipadma@j... wrote: > > Tina Turner is an African-American singer and sometime actress. She made > many of her hits with her husband Ike Turner, who allegedly beat her > until their divorce. Two of her song hits that come immediately to mind > are "Rollin' Down the River" and "What's Love Got to Do With It?" > > If you rent the movie of "Tommy," the rock musical by The Who, you can > see Tina Turner sing, dance, and act the role of The Acid Queen. As The > Acid Queen she is surrounded by poisonous snakes, bones and skulls, and > assorted drug-taking paraphernalia. I thought, when I saw it many years > ago, that it was vaguely reminiscent of some of the symbolism attached to > Shiva as Bhairava. > > Tina Turner might be mistaken (by a Westerner) for a native of the Indian > subcontinent. She's very charismatic, and still has "the best legs in > rock and roll." She won't be able to show them off much if she's wearing > a saree, though... > > I'm sure most Hindus would prefer Shakti be played by an actress from > India, however. I'll withhold judgement until I see the movie. > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 04:05:42 -0000 "N. Madasamy" > <ashwini_puralasamy> writes: > > "I can see Tina as a Goddess! I always thought she was beautiful, > > with strength and grit!" > > > > Tina Turner !!!!! oh no! no! no! why Tina Turner? Isnt there anybody > > > > else..... !!! > > > > > > hang on now .......... who is Tina Turner? > > > > > ______________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 I see nothing wrong with Tina Turner in this role... We are ALL sisters, regardless of origin/color/beliefs, and she is a strong and honest woman, who has many "Goddess" characteristics. Gwen of Crowhaven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Namaste Satish: I'd agree with you that Tina Turner -- naturally enough -- looks more African-American than Indian. But I don't know why you seem to interpret this as a bad thing. You state, "She is just like any other African American." Well, what does *that* mean? African Americans are as diverse a group of people as any ethnic group on earth -- and Turner is certainly a strong and admirable woman by any standard, completely independent of any consideration of race, creed or color. But I don't think it's fair to say that this qualifies Merchant as "sick" for casting her as a Hindu Goddess. First, if you accept the Chandi's statement that all human women are Devi's aspects, and not just all human Indian women, then Turner is as qualified as anyone else. While Hinduism (like Buddhism, Jainism, and any number of Far Eastern offshoots) is rooted in India, it is also Sanatana Dharma, the Eternal Truth -- and how can any religious system be universally truth if that truth can't be transplanted outside of India? Having said that, I would agree that the dhyanas were composed in India and that an African-American devi really doesn't fit any received tantra or dhyana for purposes of any serious, orthodox Shakta sadhana. But this is Hollywood -- or maybe a touch of Bollywood. This is popular entertainment, not a serious religious statement. If it gives some hint of the mystery and power of the "real thing," that is probably as much as can be expected. For the rest, let it be said that Turner is an iconic pop-cultural figure, and -- probably most important from a commercial film-maker's perspective -- a performer with a proven ability to attract millions to the box office. I think it's a mistake to give the whole affair any more weight than that, especially if such criticism involves insulting or condemning any person or group of people unnecessarily. Just my perspective ... DB , "Satish Arigela" <satisharigela> wrote: > She doesnt look like an Indian. She isnt even close. > > I see no reason even for westerners to confuse her with an Indian. > She is just like any other African American. > > If the director chose her to play shakti, that is sickest thing I can > imagine after seeing her pictures on google. > > Rgds > > , kalipadma@j... wrote: > > > > Tina Turner is an African-American singer and sometime actress. > She made > > many of her hits with her husband Ike Turner, who allegedly beat her > > until their divorce. Two of her song hits that come immediately to > mind > > are "Rollin' Down the River" and "What's Love Got to Do With It?" > > > > If you rent the movie of "Tommy," the rock musical by The Who, you > can > > see Tina Turner sing, dance, and act the role of The Acid Queen. > As The > > Acid Queen she is surrounded by poisonous snakes, bones and skulls, > and > > assorted drug-taking paraphernalia. I thought, when I saw it many > years > > ago, that it was vaguely reminiscent of some of the symbolism > attached to > > Shiva as Bhairava. > > > > Tina Turner might be mistaken (by a Westerner) for a native of the > Indian > > subcontinent. She's very charismatic, and still has "the best legs > in > > rock and roll." She won't be able to show them off much if she's > wearing > > a saree, though... > > > > I'm sure most Hindus would prefer Shakti be played by an actress > from > > India, however. I'll withhold judgement until I see the movie. > > > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > > > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 04:05:42 -0000 "N. Madasamy" > > <ashwini_puralasamy> writes: > > > "I can see Tina as a Goddess! I always thought she was beautiful, > > > with strength and grit!" > > > > > > Tina Turner !!!!! oh no! no! no! why Tina Turner? Isnt there > anybody > > > > > > else..... !!! > > > > > > > > > hang on now .......... who is Tina Turner? > > > > > > > > > ______________ > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 I was going to say something, but I held out hoping I would be wrong but really waiting until someone proved my point for me.. this movie will no doubt be heavily protested, because conservative fundamentalists will have huge problems with Shakti being played by a) a rock star b) a BLACK rock star. Racism rears its ugly head, demonstrating once again that the so-called "values" of fundamentalist hindus rests mostly in hate. Love Nisarg --- Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote: > She doesnt look like an Indian. She isnt even close. > > I see no reason even for westerners to confuse her > with an Indian. > She is just like any other African American. > > If the director chose her to play shakti, that is > sickest thing I can > imagine after seeing her pictures on google. > > Rgds > > , > kalipadma@j... wrote: > > > > Tina Turner is an African-American singer and > sometime actress. > She made > > many of her hits with her husband Ike Turner, who > allegedly beat her > > until their divorce. Two of her song hits that > come immediately to > mind > > are "Rollin' Down the River" and "What's Love Got > to Do With It?" > > > > If you rent the movie of "Tommy," the rock musical > by The Who, you > can > > see Tina Turner sing, dance, and act the role of > The Acid Queen. > As The > > Acid Queen she is surrounded by poisonous snakes, > bones and skulls, > and > > assorted drug-taking paraphernalia. I thought, > when I saw it many > years > > ago, that it was vaguely reminiscent of some of > the symbolism > attached to > > Shiva as Bhairava. > > > > Tina Turner might be mistaken (by a Westerner) for > a native of the > Indian > > subcontinent. She's very charismatic, and still > has "the best legs > in > > rock and roll." She won't be able to show them > off much if she's > wearing > > a saree, though... > > > > I'm sure most Hindus would prefer Shakti be played > by an actress > from > > India, however. I'll withhold judgement until I > see the movie. > > > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > > > > > > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 04:05:42 -0000 "N. Madasamy" > > <ashwini_puralasamy> writes: > > > "I can see Tina as a Goddess! I always thought > she was beautiful, > > > with strength and grit!" > > > > > > Tina Turner !!!!! oh no! no! no! why Tina > Turner? Isnt there > anybody > > > > > > else..... !!! > > > > > > > > > hang on now .......... who is Tina Turner? > > > > > > > > > > ______________ > > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno > SpeedBand! > > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up > today! > > Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam./tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 , Swami Anand Nisarg <swamiji_nisarg> wrote: > > I was going to say something, but I held out hoping I > would be wrong but really waiting until someone proved > my point for me.. this movie will no doubt be heavily > protested, because conservative fundamentalists will > have huge problems with Shakti being played by > a) a rock star > b) a BLACK rock star. > > Racism rears its ugly head, demonstrating once again > that the so-called "values" of fundamentalist hindus > rests mostly in hate. Why are you obssessed with calling a group as fundamentalists being a Swamiji time and again? Your own messages seem to contain a fundamentalist tinge(any doubts? plz read ur messages again) as we all have seen. Traditional hindus view these pop/rock stars as personification of things impure(drugs etc) and hence they will not like it. Something about hindus seems to deeply disturb you. Probably doing some more sadhana will give you some peace. Good luck. Personally, I will not protest the movie. I see no point nor any use in protesting. I mentioned my dislike like many others. Dislike: 1)coz She is old(she might be fit for the role of Dhumavati) ..Shakti in general is meditated as an young lady. 2)Pop/Rock background. Black part: Kali and Krishna are black. Ever heard of them Swamiji?So being black shouldnt be a problem no? > Love > Nisarg With overflowing love, Satish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Namaste Devi Bhakta, I already explained the reasons for dislike. Being black is not one of them. I agree with the rest of your post. As for the director being sick there could be many motives behind his choice, some of which are far from noble and some may be even malicious. Since I dont have any evidence right now I will not talk about his motives. Ismail Merchant- Is that a muslim name? Rgds , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > Namaste Satish: > > I'd agree with you that Tina Turner -- naturally enough -- looks more > African-American than Indian. > > But I don't know why you seem to interpret this as a bad thing. You > state, "She is just like any other African American." Well, what does > *that* mean? African Americans are as diverse a group of people as > any ethnic group on earth -- and Turner is certainly a strong and > admirable woman by any standard, completely independent of any > consideration of race, creed or color. > > But I don't think it's fair to say that this qualifies Merchant > as "sick" for casting her as a Hindu Goddess. > > First, if you accept the Chandi's statement that all human women are > Devi's aspects, and not just all human Indian women, then Turner is > as qualified as anyone else. While Hinduism (like Buddhism, Jainism, > and any number of Far Eastern offshoots) is rooted in India, it is > also Sanatana Dharma, the Eternal Truth -- and how can any religious > system be universally truth if that truth can't be transplanted > outside of India? > > Having said that, I would agree that the dhyanas were composed in > India and that an African-American devi really doesn't fit any > received tantra or dhyana for purposes of any serious, orthodox > Shakta sadhana. But this is Hollywood -- or maybe a touch of > Bollywood. This is popular entertainment, not a serious religious > statement. If it gives some hint of the mystery and power of > the "real thing," that is probably as much as can be expected. > > For the rest, let it be said that Turner is an iconic pop-cultural > figure, and -- probably most important from a commercial film- maker's > perspective -- a performer with a proven ability to attract millions > to the box office. > > I think it's a mistake to give the whole affair any more weight than > that, especially if such criticism involves insulting or condemning > any person or group of people unnecessarily. > > Just my perspective ... > > DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Satish Arigela [satisharigela] Blessings Satish, > Ismail Merchant- Is that a muslim name? Yes, he is Muslim. I'm sure the fundamentalists will use this against him, just like when Bal Thackeray declared that Deepa Mehta's FIRE should have been about two lesbian Muslim women, because lesbianism does not exist in "Hindu families". FWIW, there's a nice interview with Merchant where he talks about growing up Muslim in India: http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1285/4_32/85072581/p1/article.jhtml >> ZJ: How conscious were you of being raised a Muslim in India? Were you ever discriminated against? IM: I never felt discrimination. Since childhood, most of my friends were Hindu, and I've been welcomed into their houses with open arms. India has historically been a very tolerant country--that's why it has such a rich tapestry. ZJ: Can you explain the Muslim/Hindu violence happening in India right now? IM: It is baffling. I want to know, what religion teaches to kill human beings? Does Hinduism, Gandhi's philosophy? No. Quite the contrary. It's because of the damn religious leaders, extremists who have become very strong in the 21st century. Similarly with the Islamic extremism. ZJ: Islamic and Hindu fundamentalism. IM: Absolutely. That's a big problem facing our country right now. I think it's wonderful to have places of worship. If you want to build a temple, build a temple. But why demolish a mosque? << In Her Service, KG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 , "Satish Arigela" <satisharigela> wrote: > [Tina Turner] doesnt look like an Indian. > [....] This brings to mind the international cast (eh, almost a pun there) of Peter Brook's _Mahabarata_. I recall Bhim is/was played by a Black (African, from his accent) actor. Did that film, and its unconventional casting, make for much comment in India or by South Asians in the West? For info on Brook's film, including reviews: http://www.miracosta.cc.ca.us/home/gfloren/mahabfilm.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 geez!!!!!!!! I am only asking : Who is Tina Turner. I didn't know it gets too political. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Beloved Kensho, I agree that it is deeply sad that these extremists act in such a way, especially given that, as you point out, there is a great history in India of toleration. Consider the example of Kabir, and more recently of someone like Sai Baba (the real Sai Baba, of Shirdi, not the current imitator), who taught to Hindus and Muslims alike; called out "Allahu Akbar" in a Hindu Temple, and offered arati in a Moslem Mosque. Could you imagine someone trying to do that in this day and age? In either case, would they even get out alive? Love Nisarg --- "Kensho Godchaser (Jay Allen)" <kg wrote: > Satish Arigela > [satisharigela] > > Blessings Satish, > > > Ismail Merchant- Is that a muslim name? > > Yes, he is Muslim. I'm sure the fundamentalists will > use this against him, > just like when Bal Thackeray declared that Deepa > Mehta's FIRE should have > been about two lesbian Muslim women, because > lesbianism does not exist in > "Hindu families". > > FWIW, there's a nice interview with Merchant where > he talks about growing up > Muslim in India: > > http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1285/4_32/85072581/p1/article.jhtml > > >> > ZJ: How conscious were you of being raised a Muslim > in India? Were you ever > discriminated against? > > IM: I never felt discrimination. Since childhood, > most of my friends were > Hindu, and I've been welcomed into their houses with > open arms. India has > historically been a very tolerant country--that's > why it has such a rich > tapestry. > > ZJ: Can you explain the Muslim/Hindu violence > happening in India right now? > > IM: It is baffling. I want to know, what religion > teaches to kill human > beings? Does Hinduism, Gandhi's philosophy? No. > Quite the contrary. It's > because of the damn religious leaders, extremists > who have become very > strong in the 21st century. Similarly with the > Islamic extremism. > > ZJ: Islamic and Hindu fundamentalism. > > IM: Absolutely. That's a big problem facing our > country right now. I think > it's wonderful to have places of worship. If you > want to build a temple, > build a temple. But why demolish a mosque? > << > > In Her Service, > > KG > > Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam./tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 eez!!!!!!!! I am only asking : Who is Tina Turner. I didn't know it gets too political. ----Yeah really, whenever two or more people get together there's politics, even where useless.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 - msbauju Monday, February 23, 2004 12:39 AM Re: Who is Tina Turner? , "Satish Arigela" <satisharigela> wrote: > [Tina Turner] doesnt look like an Indian. > [....] There is a community of people in India whose ancestors were African black people who were brought to India (Gujerat)by Arab Muslim slavers. Sorry but reality has a habit of being politically incorrect. There is no reason why Tina Turner should not play an Indian Hindu. Bogman This brings to mind the international cast (eh, almost a pun there) of Peter Brook's _Mahabarata_. I recall Bhim is/was played by a Black (African, from his accent) actor. Did that film, and its unconventional casting, make for much comment in India or by South Asians in the West? For info on Brook's film, including reviews: http://www.miracosta.cc.ca.us/home/gfloren/mahabfilm.htm / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 , "Bogman" <flink@b...> wrote: > There is a community of people in India whose ancestors were African black people who were brought to India (Gujerat)by Arab Muslim slavers. Sorry but reality has a habit of being politically incorrect. > There is no reason why Tina Turner should not play an Indian >Hindu. Gujarat is only a state in India. And even if africans are there in gujarat they dont look like africans anymore. They are so minute and not even a minority. Do ppl read all messages in the list? It is a good idea to read everything related to thread if one is responding to a message in that thread. Did anyone say she should not act? She is just a bad choice and hence a dislike(just dislike - there is order or decree saying she should not act). There are obviously better choices. Btw is she Hindu? As for the statements she looks African -American and she doesnt look Indian, they are in response to the following statement from Len/kalipadma. ------------------------------ Len/Kalipadma said: Tina Turner might be mistaken (by a Westerner) for a native of the Indian subcontinent. ------------------------------ For msbauju: You wrote: >I recall Bhim is/was played by a >Black (African, from his accent) actor. Did that film, and its >unconventional casting, make for much comment in India or by South >Asians in the West? That film is not popular in India. But I know fellow Indians who are not particularly religious, express strong dislike when they watched it(in US). SA. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 At least from the tenth century onward, Arab Muslim traders probably sold more Africans into Asian slavery than into slavery in the New World. Under the excuse that they would not convert to Islam, any native African who was caught by the slave traders or sold to them by a rival tribe was traded for opium. One might ask what work these slaves did and not be surprised to find that they did the same thing they did in the Americas: pick cotton. Vedarthi Bogman wrote: > > - > msbauju > > Monday, February 23, 2004 12:39 AM > Re: Who is Tina Turner? > > > , "Satish Arigela" > <satisharigela> wrote: > > [Tina Turner] doesnt look like an Indian. > > [....] > There is a community of people in India whose ancestors were African > black people who were brought to India (Gujerat)by Arab Muslim > slavers. Sorry but reality has a habit of being politically incorrect. > > There is no reason why Tina Turner should not play an Indian Hindu. > > Bogman > > > This brings to mind the international cast (eh, almost a pun there) > of Peter Brook's _Mahabarata_. I recall Bhim is/was played by a > Black (African, from his accent) actor. Did that film, and its > unconventional casting, make for much comment in India or by South > Asians in the West? > > For info on Brook's film, including reviews: > http://www.miracosta.cc.ca.us/home/gfloren/mahabfilm.htm > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > - > ---------- > > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of > Service. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Links > > * > / > > * > > > * Terms of > Service. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 1. Back when the world was young there was a show biz team called Ike and Tina Turner. Ike played while she sang. 2. I am so guilty of using the term fundamentalism when I really mean fanatic. Fanatics carry fundamentalism to extreme and reak havoc on the world. Even Jesus said "come let us reason together" These people are not looking for salvation in their actions. They only want power and religion is the tool of power for conquerors a message dated 2/22/2004 10:18:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, kg@K... writes: ZJ: Islamic and Hindu fundamentalism. IM: Absolutely. That's a big problem facing our country right now. I think it's wonderful to have places of worship. If you want to build a temple, build a temple. But why demolish a mosque? << Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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