Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Geez! I am about to report you to the lost and found counter in under ** Missing Members in Action *** Welcome back Chumki. Devi Bhakta wrote : "What are the bad things about Devi getting the Bollywood treatment?Isn't She always been something of the "People's Deity" in India?The religion of the villages and tribes and the unlettered masses?Isn't Bollywood the lingua franca linking those masses across India today? I guess my question is -- Is it important? Is it bad? Does it matter?" This is from a very old post of ours, I think have been unforgotton. Perhaps time to revive them again …. "We must remember that these are simple rural people who do this type of worship. They might just have basic education or none at all. And because they don't have any other source of entertainment, these movie stars fit in fulfilling their need. These films travel to the villages and they are like a miracle to these simple people, they are like god and goddess. Men who are unbelieveably handsome, women who are unimagineably beautiful, doing amazing feats and lush and elegant settings ... it must seem to them like these are gods and goddesses frolicking in the heavens. Remember Ramayana and Mahabhrata. These Hinduism's stories and epics are not matters of study or education, they are the matrices of existence. Those aren't books to read ... they're living stories, told around the fire by old men and women of great respect. These epics are like the bollywood too if you think of it. Everywhere, in every culture, people idolize actors and actresses and pop singers ... but they do not confuse them with gods and goddesses. There is no difference between the fanaticism of Elvis and Khusboos , somehow the Indians in India have gone one step ahead. I would like to go back to my remarks abt this hindu tradition of add and minus their god and goddess. "In popular hindu belief that any person who have done extremely good deeds to the society, upon their death are elevated to the status of god and goddess" And back to the question of "why this actress, and not that actress?". These movie star must have special qualities that attracted these simple rural folk. To them these movie stars have done some good to them. So what is good to them might not be to us. Movies stars do the service of bringing joy and excitement into quiet, poor and unexceptional lives. And movies their only window to a larger world -- a beautiful fantasy they can escape into. What else do these common folk would ask for. It does make sense dosent it? It fulfill their need. Remember that is the basic human expectation. It goes back to the devotee's perception of the one they idolize and the truth would lie with the individual devotee ... if a man thinks of say Madhuri Dixit as a goddess, and worships her as Durga, it is good, but if he simply pants over her as an unattainable ideal of feminine beauty, he is on the wrong track. So it comes back to the same answer: it is in the mind of the devotee. An urban intellectual will look and say "these stupid people are worshipping movie stars" ... but actually they are worshipping the higher feelings that these films and actors and actresses produce in their souls? Through this their spirituality is a way of transcending mundane life as well ... but not into fantasy, we assume ... but rather escaping into a higher reality. These are simple, hard-working, undereducated people. They are not swamis or intellectuals. So the question is: Is it a spiritual dead end to confuse Bollywood fantasy with spiritual ecstacy?. How can we say that their "transcendence" of reality is inferior if the ultimate effect is the same? This brings us to another question "while any kind of devotion can purify the devotee, and prepare them for higher worship in future lives, it will not lead them to moksha. Does that seem like a legitimate interpret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 I suppose both you and Nora have a point "does it matter?" What I grew up with and what i see now,sometimes the difference is totally,should I say appalling !! Anyway ,didnt mean to to be critical. No Devi_Bhakta I am still in the USA,had to delay my trip,but leaving in about two weeks time. Best wishes. Chumki. , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > Hi Chumki! > > Hey, are you honoring us with your presence all the way from Kolkata? > Or have you returned to the states already? > > There is no doubt that what you say is true -- that the > Bollywood "look" has, over the decades, seeped into popular religious > art. As you say, "the same goes for any images of the goddesses in > any religious functions." > > For example, you've complimented this image before: > > http://shaktisadhana.50megs.com/images/Durgapictures/mahisasuramardini > .jpg > > But isn't there a kind of "Bollywood" thing going on there as well? > > I guess my question is -- Is it important? Is it bad? Does it matter? > > What are the bad things about Devi getting the Bollywood treatment? > Hasn't She always been something of the "People's Deity" in India? > The religion of the villages and tribes and the unlettered masses? > Isn't Bollywood the lingua franca linking those masses across India > today? > > In any event, you may have noticed that here we tend to (try and) > stay away from too many "Bollywood Devis." Somehow the classical > paintings and sculptures strike me as more "holy" and elevating. But > is that just snobbery? > > I am not lecturing or criticizing any more than you are. I'm just > curious, so I'm asking for peoples' opinions. > > DB > > , "Chumki" <blueblackeyes> > wrote: > > I just couldnt refrain from making this comment...the faces and > whole > > attire of the current club picture resembles that of some Bollywood > > actress.I have noticed the same goes for any images of the goddesses > > in any religious functions. > > No offence meant to anyone. > > > > Love > > > > Chumki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hi Chumki! *** I am still in the USA, had to delay my trip, but leaving in about two weeks time. *** Ah, I see. Well, I wish you a safe journey and a happy visit. Get over there before it gets too hot! (Or is heat what you're looking for after this brutal winter?) *** I suppose both you and Nora have a point "does it matter?" *** I wasn't trying to make a point. In fact, I am not at all sure that it doesn't matter. I am just wondering about others' opinions. *** What I grew up with and what i see now,sometimes the difference is totally, should I say appalling!! *** This is really interesting to me. I'd really appreciate it if you could elaborate a little? If it's not a great trouble or inconvenience. Warmest wishes to you as well ... DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > I guess my question is -- Is it important? Is it bad? Does it matter? > > What are the bad things about Devi getting the Bollywood treatment? What does bollywood treatment mean? Can you elaborate or give some examples? > Hasn't She always been something of the "People's Deity" in India? > The religion of the villages and tribes and the unlettered masses? That is true of major Gods and Goddesses. > Isn't Bollywood the lingua franca linking those masses across India > today? > I dont think so. What links the masses is hinduism. SA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Which one sounds better .. the devi looking like heroine or the heroine looking like devi? It's just a case of perspective. Who is getting the accolades ...? "a subtle personification of lalitha ..." "what you perceive, so you receive ..." " all that is beauty is lalitha .... but beauty lies in eye of beholder (now,beauty is relative to person)" " show this image to a blind person,ask him/her the same question ... you bet he/she will laugh their guts out " She does not have a distinction about beauty.. she has no bindings Just we can see things in our way , so can anyone... So we judge and have an opinion .. Lalitha made me the way I am .. so she does for all others.. So,is it justified for us to have those opinions?does it really matter ? Open up and let things be!! Luv , "Satish Arigela" <satisharigela> wrote: > , "Devi Bhakta" > <devi_bhakta> wrote: > > I guess my question is -- Is it important? Is it bad? Does it > matter? > > > > What are the bad things about Devi getting the Bollywood treatment? > > > What does bollywood treatment mean? Can you elaborate or give some > examples? > > > > Hasn't She always been something of the "People's Deity" in India? > > The religion of the villages and tribes and the unlettered masses? > > > That is true of major Gods and Goddesses. > > > > Isn't Bollywood the lingua franca linking those masses across India > > today? > > > > I dont think so. What links the masses is hinduism. > > SA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hello Devi_bhakta What i am trying to say is that what I grew up with is what you referred to as clasical sculptures.These deities evoked emotions that today's movie star inspired images do not,at least for me. Yes the heat is there,and no I am not really looking for the heat. Nonetheless I am waiting for that day to go "home" to be with the family. Thank you for your good wishes. warm regards. Chumki. , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > Hi Chumki! > > *** I am still in the USA, had to delay my trip, but leaving in > about two weeks time. *** > > Ah, I see. Well, I wish you a safe journey and a happy visit. Get > over there before it gets too hot! (Or is heat what you're looking > for after this brutal winter?) > > *** I suppose both you and Nora have a point "does it matter?" *** > > I wasn't trying to make a point. In fact, I am not at all sure that > it doesn't matter. I am just wondering about others' opinions. > > *** What I grew up with and what i see now,sometimes the difference > is totally, should I say appalling!! *** > > This is really interesting to me. I'd really appreciate it if you > could elaborate a little? If it's not a great trouble or > inconvenience. > > Warmest wishes to you as well ... > > DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Namaste Chumki, Satish, and Kalipadma: Satish asked: *** What does "bollywood treatment" mean? Can you elaborate or give some examples? *** This is not my original idea or anything. Studies of popular Hindu art commonly mention the influence of popular cinema upon the imagination of popular devotional artists. I just checked Blurton's "Hindu Art" survey last night, and he identifies -- in the case of goddess portrayals -- clinging, tightly fitted saris (as seen in Bollywood films), as opposed to the more natural and modest draping usually seen in real life; garish colors and ornamentation detail (as opposed to the more subdued and austere classical portrayals); fairer complexions and less "ethnic" facial features (as is common in Bollywood actors and actresses. The same applies to male deities, who are nowadays gifted with increasingly "pumped-up" action-hero physiques. Chumki wrote, *** What I am trying to say is that what I grew up with is what you referred to as clasical sculptures.These deities evoked emotions that today's movie star inspired images do not, at least for me. *** I think that pretty much sums up the issue. Len notes, *** I recall Devi Bhakta wrote about when Hindu devotional posters started portraying most of the deities with European complexions. There was an English-language book published on the topic in India -- what was the title and author? *** Yes, I'd posted a detailed book review from the Times of India, I think, but I can't find it in the archives. If anyone recalls, and can find it, I'd appreciate it. I did find a more recent posting along the same lines, though, called "The Aesthetic of Indian Calendar Art": /message/8177 *** is there some way we Westerners can purchase the book? *** India Club (http://www.indiaclub.com) -- based in New Jersey, USA -- can generally find just about any Indian book you can imagine, if you just ask, then give them a few weeks to search. This is a fairly recent book, so perhaps it's even in stock. DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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