Guest guest Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 This post doesn't strictly concern Shaktism, but I know a number of group members have much interest in the ancient Gnostic Gospels, unearthed in Egypt shortly after WW2, which suggest that the religion preached by the historical Jesus was a lot closer to Tantra than the religion *about* Jesus that has come down to us as Christianity. One of the foremost scholars of Gnosticism is Elaine Pagels. David Remnick coaxed her into sharing her impressions of Mel Gibson's controversial, ultra-violent dramatization of the Roman Catholic Stations of the Cross. I thought some of you might find it interesting: PASSIONS, PAST AND PRESENT by David Remnick (Issue of 2004-03-08, Posted 2004-03-01) Last week, while the critics, the clergy, and the professional opinion-providers were caught up in the opening, on Ash Wednesday, of "The Passion of the Christ," it seemed a good idea to ask Elaine Pagels, a renowned historian of the early Christian period, to see the film and offer her reaction. Scholarship on the quick, admittedly. Professor Pagels, who teaches at Princeton and is the author of "The Gnostic Gospels" and "The Origin of Satan," seemed hesitant at first. But one evening she viewed "The Passion" with some friends, and afterward she called to say that she was, well, disturbed. And not just because of the unremitting and brutal flaying of Christ, "though my friends said that anyone who had really endured that kind of torture would have been dead a lot earlier in the movie." Pagels is both a scholar and, in her way, a practicing Christian. Usually, she is measured, soft-spoken, but there was the slightest tone of agitation in her voice: "It's important to remember that this is Lent, and meditations on the Passion of Christ are an important part of the cultural interpretation of human suffering. There's a context for the movie in the history of art. When Christians read the Gospels as historical acts, they will say what Mel Gibson says: that this is the truth, this is our faith. But the important thing is that this film ignores the spin the gospel writers were pressured to put on their works, the distortions of facts they had to execute. Mel Gibson has no interest whatsoever in that." Pagels explained that the four gospel writers of the New Testament probably wrote between 70 and 100 A.D. These were the years following the Roman defeat of the Jews, which left the Temple and the center of Jerusalem in ruins. Acts of sedition by the Jews against their conquerors were met with swift execution. As a result, Pagels said, the Gospels, which were intended not as history but as preaching, as religious propaganda to win followers for the teachings of Christ, portrayed the conflict of the Passion as one between Jesus and the Jewish people, led by Caiaphas. And, though it was the Roman occupiers, under Pontius Pilate, who possessed ultimate political and judicial power in Judea, they are described in the Gospels—and, more starkly, in Gibson's film -- as relatively benign. "Our first informed comment on Pilate comes from Philo of Alexandria, a wealthy, influential Jewish citizen who was part of a delegation sent to Rome to negotiate with the emperor," Pagels said. "The delegation saw the Emperor Caligula in the year 40, seven to ten years after Jesus' death, and Philo writes that Pilate was stubborn and cruel and routinely ordered executions without trial. The other great historian of the period is Josephus, who wrote the history of the war between the Romans and the Jews. He tells us many episodes about Pilate that also go against what the Gospels tell us— that he robbed the public treasury, that he deliberately incited the Jerusalemites. Josephus tells us that when people rioted in protest Pilate sent his soldiers to beat and kill them. So he was far from the man depicted in the Gospels. "Mel Gibson denies any anti-Semitism, and I can't speak to his motives," Pagels went on, "but there are narrative devices that are clear. The more benign Pilate appears in the movie, the more malignant the Jews are. To deflect responsibility from the Romans for arresting and executing Christ, which Gibson takes from the Gospels and makes even more extreme, is contrary to everything we understand about history. It is implausible that the Jews could be responsible and Pilate a benign governor. There are many examples in the film of a preposterous dialectic: the bad Jews and the good Romans. When the Temple police arrest Jesus, Mary Magdalene turns to the Romans as if they were the policemen on the block, benign protectors of the public order. But the very idea of a Jewish woman turning to Roman soldiers for help is ridiculous." Unlike many of the critics, Pagels was hesitant about analyzing what effect "The Passion of the Christ" would have on its audiences. But her tone was one of regret. Pagels pointed out that the history of western art is rife with representations of the Passion that avoid divisive sentiment. "In the 'St. Matthew Passion,'" she said, "Bach was very aware of the problem of arousing anti-Semitic feelings and he wanted deliberately to avoid that. So at the moment when there is the cry to crucify Christ, the call comes not from an identifiable group of Jews but from all, from the entire chorus. Bach demonstrated what Gibson claims that he wanted to show, the inclination of human beings, universally, to do violence." There were other artists, too -- from Palestrina to Bill Viola -- who depicted the Passion in a similar spirit. In the end, she said, "Gibson's movie is no more subtle than 'The Lord of the Rings.' There is the side of good and the side of evil." URL: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?040308ta_talk_remnick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 In a message dated 3/5/2004 8:02:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, sisterusha writes: Remember that the Christians have one book called the Bible that they consider authoritative. Hindus do not. There are several versions of the Kali mythology in various parts of India. Which one will they use? the Christians have many books 44 of them were put into one volume and called "the bible" Different thoughts and different ways of thinking have gone into that book but they try to pretend that all the books say the same thing..some times even one of the books like for example Geneses does not even agree with itself...as in the creation story. And people limit their spiritual growth when the imagine that the device parent has stopped inspiring us to write. As far as I am concerned Star Hawk and De Pak Chopra and just two of them that have come along in our time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2004 Report Share Posted March 5, 2004 ?>Pontius Pilate, who possessed > ultimate political and judicial power in Judea, they are described > in the Gospels—and, more starkly, in Gibson's film -- as relatively > benign. But they explained this in the movie. Mr. Pilate was standing before a crowd led by the Jewish swami Caiaphas. Pilate knew that Jesus had many supporters in town who were not present in the trial. He was afraid that if he had Jesus executed, this would start a rebellion by the pro-Jesus people. If he did not, the anti-Jesus mob would start a revolt. Either way, this would look bad for Pilate with his superiors in Rome. So he was hesitant not out of any compassion for Jesus but rather concern for his own career. The determining factor was a large crowd of anti-Jesus people in Mr. Pilate's own courtyard. I am not saying that this is accurate history. There were no television cameras present at the trial, so it is impossible to know for certain what happened. I am merely quoting the movie, which I saw yesterday. Let us relate this back to the discussion a few weeks ago about the proposed Tina Turner movie about Kali. This movie about Jesus was made by Christians in a Christian country, and millions of Christians are arguing about the accuracy of small details. What will happen with a movie about Kali? Remember that the Christians have one book called the Bible that they consider authoritative. Hindus do not. There are several versions of the Kali mythology in various parts of India. Which one will they use? If the movie is to be made, it is essential that the script writers have some major input from Hindu scholars. This is necessary to ensure that the movie is accurate and honorable, that it will foster understanding between the Christian world and the Hindu world, rather than furthering misunderstanding and continued prejudice. Sister Usha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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