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Shaktis come with attributes...

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On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:26:39 -0000 "Satish Arigela"

<satisharigela writes:

> That is bcoz Saraswati is known as goddess of learning and not

> perfumes. Is there any source which says Saraswati is goddess of

> perfumes or something?

 

Saraswati is described as <chandana-priya>, or "fond of sandalwood." She

is also described as inventing and mastering the 57 arts and sciences,

one of which is making perfumes.

>

> Please tell me if you find anything about Saraswati like that. And

> what on earth does a goddess of perfumes mean? She makes all

> perfumes in this world?

 

Perhaps she inspires all the perfume-makers in the world.

> Or should one meditate on Saraswati while

> using perfumes?

 

One should offer her sandalwood oil as <gandha> during her puja.

> Is there some scripture which prescribes her

> meditation while using perfumes? Please let me know if you find

> something like that.

>

> Another reason is that, She doesnt need someone to dress Her hair

> and perfume. Is She human? Since such questions come up one

> concludes it is poetic.

 

Since she is not human, she doesn't need a human form. "God" is beyond

all human attributes. It is the limited mind of man that has to assign

qualities to God, because we cannot grasp something without qualities.

 

But the qualities assigned to God in Hinduism are beautiful and, yes,

poetic. That is the appeal of Hinduism to me. If you want to worship

God without attributes, you might as well be a Muslim. They aren't

allowed to portray God in any form, and even avoid using images of people

or animals for fear of instilling "idolotry."

 

Even the Jews (my ancestral people) have one of their Ten Commandments:

"Thou shalt not make or worship graven images." It is my favorite

Commandment to break! My apartment is full of beautiful graven images.

Many of them are on my altar, where I daily wave lamps, burn incense,

chant mantras, and yes, offer perfumes to them!

<snip>

> -------------------

> Saundaryalahari is a *poem*. A tantra is *not a poem*.Just remember

> that.

> -------------------

 

So, do you literally believe Lord Shiva sat in a cave and instructed Ma

Parvati in various Tantras? Warning her to keep them secret from Ganesh

and Skanda? Isn't that symbolic and poetical? The Tantras use

"twilight language," which needs to be interpreted by a Guru because its

true meaning is hidden, symbolic, and poetical.

 

<sarasvati mahabhage/ vidye kamala lochane//

vishvarupah vishalakshi/ vidyam dehi namostute//>

 

Mother Saraswati, who inspires all poetry, grant me the wisdom to deal

with strange people who insist that what is "poetical" is without value!

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

 

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, kalipadma@j... wrote:

> Saraswati is described as <chandana-priya>, or "fond of

>sandalwood." She

> is also described as inventing and mastering the 57 arts and

sciences,

> one of which is making perfumes.

 

Lots of Gods are praised like that. Krishna for one.

 

All major devatas seem to have a name somewhere which praises them

in relation to Chandana.

 

Isnt it 64 arts? May be there are different versions.

 

Let us talk about the other conclusion too. That Indrani is

patroness of hairs.

 

 

> > Or should one meditate on Saraswati while

> > using perfumes?

>

> One should offer her sandalwood oil as <gandha> during her puja.

 

Those two are different things.

 

 

> But the qualities assigned to God in Hinduism are beautiful and,

yes,

> poetic. That is the appeal of Hinduism to me. If you want to

worship

> God without attributes, you might as well be a Muslim.

 

 

Whether human qualities should be attributed to Devi or not is

*not* the question. I am talking about wrong conclusions from wrong

sources. Like the other example I mentioned in another shloka of

Saundaryalahari.

> > -------------------

> > Saundaryalahari is a *poem*. A tantra is *not a poem*.Just

remember

> > that.

> > -------------------

>

> So, do you literally believe Lord Shiva sat in a cave and

instructed Ma

> Parvati in various Tantras? Warning her to keep them secret from

Ganesh

> and Skanda? Isn't that symbolic and poetical?

 

 

Yes it is symbolic but not poetical. There are exaggerations here

and there.

 

> <sarasvati mahabhage/ vidye kamala lochane//

> vishvarupah vishalakshi/ vidyam dehi namostute//>

>

> Mother Saraswati, who inspires all poetry, grant me the wisdom to

deal

> with strange people who insist that what is "poetical" is without

value!

 

So what value does the poem impart to you when it says in

Saundaryalahari that a worshipper of Lalita sports with Lakshmi to

the jealousy of Vishnu?? Would you take this literally?

That is what I am talking about. Saying something poetical is

without value is a different thing, and I *did not* say/mean that.

 

Drawing wrong type of conclusions from wrong type of sources is what

I am talking about and not anything bad about poetry.

 

Rgds

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On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:01:35 -0000 "Satish Arigela"

<satisharigela writes:

>

>

> > > Or should one meditate on Saraswati while

> > > using perfumes?

> >

> > One should offer her sandalwood oil as <gandha> during her puja.

>

> Those two are different things.

 

Depends on how one defines "goddess of perfumes."

>

>

>

> So what value does the poem impart to you when it says in

> Saundaryalahari that a worshipper of Lalita sports with Lakshmi to

> the jealousy of Vishnu?? Would you take this literally?

 

"Sporting with Lakshmi" is a poetical way of saying that the devotee of

Lalita will draw wealth and abundance into his life. We all want wealth

and abundance, but since the Goddess of Wealth is married, her husband is

going to naturally respond, "Hey! Quit flirting with my wife!" (And

Lakshmi IS called <chanchala>, "the fickle one" -- because fortune seldom

stays long with any one person.)

 

My Guru is Ammachi of Kerala, and she gave me a mantra to my ishtadevata,

Sarasvati. Some friends who are Hindus said, "What bad luck for you!

Sarasvati gives great creativity, but little money." And I thought, I

ought to chant Ganesha's mantra, too -- he'll remove obstacles to my

finances. When Amma next came to New York, however, they informed me

that she only gives her shishyas ONE mantra! I told my problem to one of

her assistants, and he said, "All the gods are aspects of Brahman -- when

you chant to Sarasvati, do you think Ganesha doesn't hear you? Envision

Ganesha with Sarasvati, see whatever Devas you wish in her attendance,

but keep Sarasvati foremost in your heart. And see Amma as guiding you

constantly to Her."

 

It's symbolic, it's poetical -- but it's also all God. I don't worry too

much that Vishnu will get jealous if I like Lakshmi. Vishnu is the

Preserver, and Lakshmi's blessing brings preservation with it. On some

level, all the Gods and Goddesses are in my heart. <tat tvam asi> Thou

art That. <Om chidanda rupah shivoham shivoham> In the form of

consciousness and bliss, I am Shiva, I am Shiva. I am Sarasvati,

Ganesha, Krishna, Kali... and so are you.

 

Here we are, God arguing with God. It's silly.

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

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, kalipadma@j... wrote:

> Depends on how one defines "goddess of perfumes."

 

Did you find in any shastra that Saraswati is goddess of perfumes?

When you do, let me know.

 

> > So what value does the poem impart to you when it says in

> > Saundaryalahari that a worshipper of Lalita sports with Lakshmi

to

> > the jealousy of Vishnu?? Would you take this literally?

>

> "Sporting with Lakshmi" is a poetical way of saying that the

devotee of

> Lalita will draw wealth and abundance into his life.

 

 

Good. That is exactly what I am trying to say. It is some truth

that is poetically expressed in some way. See the essence(as you did

above) and not the literal translation(as done for another verse)

when it comes to a poem.

 

The other stuff about Vishnu you wrote is improper.

 

Rgds

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> Sarasvati. Some friends who are Hindus said, "What bad luck for

you!

> Sarasvati gives great creativity, but little money." And I

thought, I

> ought to chant Ganesha's mantra, too -- he'll remove obstacles to my

 

It is more commonly known that where Saraswati resides, Laxmi has to

stay; but where Laxmi resides, Saraswati need not stay. In most

Saraswati pictures, She holds a wad of cash/gold coins. Just ask Her

to give some of that to you:-)

 

 

> finances. When Amma next came to New York, however, they informed

me

> that she only gives her shishyas ONE mantra! I told my problem to

 

Amma does give shishyas more than one mantra. Both Amma and

Ramakrishnananda Swami told me that when one is sincerely practicing

the given mantra, one can be eligible for another mantra(mainly a

modification of the original mantra). But we dont decide when we

become eligible, it is an act of Amma's grace!!

 

-yogaman

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, "childofdevi"

<childofdevi> wrote:

> > Sarasvati. Some friends who are Hindus said, "What bad luck for

> you!

> > Sarasvati gives great creativity, but little money." And I

> thought, I

> > ought to chant Ganesha's mantra, too -- he'll remove obstacles

to my

>

> It is more commonly known that where Saraswati resides, Laxmi has

to

> stay; but where Laxmi resides, Saraswati need not stay.

 

Perfect! If one obtains the grace of Sarasvati, he/she will

automatically obtain the grace of Lakshmi, Durga, Parvati, Shiva and

any other devata. One of the greatest texts on mantra shastra is

named after Saraswati, as Sarada Tilaka and the very first mantras

it discusses is that of Vagdevi or Sarada or Saraswati. Saraswati is

the goddess of the alphabets/varnas of which all mantras are

composed of. If one has Saraswati mantra in one way it is equavalent

to having all other mantras.She is the essence of mantra shastra in

one way. The great Bhaskararaya and similar saints became well

learned only by doing Her upasana.

 

As for your hindu friends comments: You need not pay attention to

those statements. The common hindu doesnt have a single clue about

his own religion. Such statements are just meant for fun and they

are not intended to be taken seriously(most prolly they dont know

that those statements were originally intended for fun either).

The tantras quite often say that if one succeeds in one mantra

sadhana, he/she will succeed in all other mantras. That statement

comes from some very authoritative sources on mantra shastra.

 

Rgds

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