10,000 MESSAGES!

[Guest guest]

Hey, I just noticed that this last message was the 10,000th posted to

Shakti Sadhana! And according to , we are now numerically

the third largest group in the "Hinduism" category, and the largest

*active* group in that category!

 

These are artificial landmarks, I know (if you include our lost

Clubs posts, we probably passed the 10,000 mark long ago; and if we

eventually hit #1, so big deal; then what?). And these accomplishments

ought not be seen as a reason for complacence and vain

self-congratulation, but rather as a challenge to do more for the

cause, and to do it better in the months and years to come.

 

So there's ample room for improvement and growth, no doubt. There's a

daunting amount of work still to be done. But for now, why not pause

for a moment and celebrate a little? As for me, I'm going to pop a

bottle of champagne as soon as I finish work, and offer a toast and a

blessing to you, the valued members and friends who give this

"cyber-temple" its lifeblood and spirit.

 

DEVI, of course, will get the biggest glass. Nora, being a true

sadhika and much better about such things than I am, would probably

not touch the stuff ... but no harm in asking. (Will you join me?)

Kochu will definitely have a glass. Anyone else? Come on! Salut!

 

But quite seriously, a huge thanks to all of you -- and I do mean all

-- who have so generously contributed to and participated in this

Group and its valuable work over the years since we were founded.

Without HER we would have no existence, without YOU we would have no

purpose.

 

With love and respect to you all ...

 

Thank you

 

DB

[Guest guest]

,

> But for now, why not pause

> for a moment and celebrate a little? As for me, I'm going to pop a

> bottle of champagne as soon as I finish work, and offer a toast

and a

> blessing to you, the valued members and friends who give this

> "cyber-temple" its lifeblood and spirit.

>

> DEVI, of course, will get the biggest glass. Nora, being a true

> sadhika and much better about such things than I am, would probably

> not touch the stuff ... but no harm in asking. (Will you join me?)

> Kochu will definitely have a glass. Anyone else? Come on! Salut!

 

Great! Definitely something to celebrate.

 

Am not here to direct or judge somebody's actions or destiny, but

like to point out that, all Shakta scriptures hold that drinking

alcohol is to be avoided.

The most famous and frequently quoted text Kularnava clearly opposes

this by saying, "one should see the Sun to get rid of the sin of

seeing wine, perform pranayama if one smells wine etc".

Drinking alchohol is considered to be one of the five greatest sins

and is listed along with spoiling the bed of one's guru.

 

There is ritual drinking in Shaktism but the same texts which

prescribe ritual drinking(only for those properly initiated into

those rituals) are very clear when it comes to condemning non-ritual

drinking. Only a vamachara shakta is supposed to drink, and that too

only during performing rituals.

 

Rgds

sa

[Guest guest]

Dear Satish:

 

See what a bloody unrepentant reprobate I am? Ah well, I'll blame the

French and their unholy brews ... ;-)

 

In any event, thanks for the good wishes on this small milestone.

 

Aum Maatangyai Namahe

 

, "Satish Arigela"

<satisharigela> wrote:

> ,

> > But for now, why not pause

> > for a moment and celebrate a little? As for me, I'm going to pop a

> > bottle of champagne as soon as I finish work, and offer a toast

> and a

> > blessing to you, the valued members and friends who give this

> > "cyber-temple" its lifeblood and spirit.

> >

> > DEVI, of course, will get the biggest glass. Nora, being a true

> > sadhika and much better about such things than I am, would

probably

> > not touch the stuff ... but no harm in asking. (Will you join me?)

> > Kochu will definitely have a glass. Anyone else? Come on! Salut!

>

> Great! Definitely something to celebrate.

>

> Am not here to direct or judge somebody's actions or destiny, but

> like to point out that, all Shakta scriptures hold that drinking

> alcohol is to be avoided.

> The most famous and frequently quoted text Kularnava clearly

opposes

> this by saying, "one should see the Sun to get rid of the sin of

> seeing wine, perform pranayama if one smells wine etc".

> Drinking alchohol is considered to be one of the five greatest sins

> and is listed along with spoiling the bed of one's guru.

>

> There is ritual drinking in Shaktism but the same texts which

> prescribe ritual drinking(only for those properly initiated into

> those rituals) are very clear when it comes to condemning non-

ritual

> drinking. Only a vamachara shakta is supposed to drink, and that

too

> only during performing rituals.

>

> Rgds

> sa

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

Happy 10,000 messages, DB! Devi has seen fit to withdraw from me the

privilege of drinking so I cannot join you in celebrating this or Her

with that lovely French concoction, but I wish us all well.

 

BTW for a substitute, try mixing a good organic ginger ale with some

mint tea. Quite tasty and celebratory if I may say so myself.

 

Doing the right thing through no fault of my own,

 

pr

 

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

> Hey, I just noticed that this last message was the 10,000th posted

to

> Shakti Sadhana! And according to , we are now

numerically

> the third largest group in the "Hinduism" category, and the largest

> *active* group in that category!

>

> These are artificial landmarks, I know (if you include our lost

> Clubs posts, we probably passed the 10,000 mark long ago; and if we

> eventually hit #1, so big deal; then what?). And these

accomplishments

> ought not be seen as a reason for complacence and vain

> self-congratulation, but rather as a challenge to do more for the

> cause, and to do it better in the months and years to come.

>

> So there's ample room for improvement and growth, no doubt. There's

a

> daunting amount of work still to be done. But for now, why not pause

> for a moment and celebrate a little? As for me, I'm going to pop a

> bottle of champagne as soon as I finish work, and offer a toast and

a

> blessing to you, the valued members and friends who give this

> "cyber-temple" its lifeblood and spirit.

>

> DEVI, of course, will get the biggest glass. Nora, being a true

> sadhika and much better about such things than I am, would probably

> not touch the stuff ... but no harm in asking. (Will you join me?)

> Kochu will definitely have a glass. Anyone else? Come on! Salut!

>

> But quite seriously, a huge thanks to all of you -- and I do mean

all

> -- who have so generously contributed to and participated in this

> Group and its valuable work over the years since we were founded.

> Without HER we would have no existence, without YOU we would have no

> purpose.

>

> With love and respect to you all ...

>

> Thank you

>

> DB

[Guest guest]

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

> Dear Satish:

>

> See what a bloody unrepentant reprobate I am? Ah well, I'll blame

>the

> French and their unholy brews ... ;-)

 

Namaste,

 

Since you grew up in a different culture where people seem to see

nothing wrong about it, it is definitely understandable.

 

I read about a certain incident in Dallas where they considered the

marriage of an Indian couple as incest coz according to US norms a

marriage between such closely related individuals is considered

inappropriate. By that standard all Indians who marry so, can be

thought as incestuous by Americans, even though they may be good and

spiritual people.

 

Considering such differences it might be inappropriate to say all

those non-Indians who drink are sinful.

However, IMHO, if one embraces a certain religion, I think it is a

good idea to(to try) abide by what is considered appropriate(in that

religion) if one expects benefits from following(say like reciting

LS or Khadgamala) that whatever religion.

 

Regards

Satish.

[Guest guest]

Hahaaaaaa Didnt I warn you Devi Bhakta !!! But No!!!!! you never

listen. Now you see!

 

I say : Stick to Non Alcoholic Grape Juice.

[Guest guest]

I have no personal comments but to quote Sir John Woodroffe from Shakti and

Shakta...

"But the Pañcatattva have not always their literal meaning. The meaning differs

according as they refer to the Tamasik (Pashvacara), Rajasik (Viracara) or

Sattvik (Divyacara) Sadhanas respectively. "Wine" is only wine and Maithuna is

only sexual union in the ritual of the Vira. To the Pashu, the Vira ritual

(Viracara) is prohibited as unsuitable to his state, and the Divya, unless of

the lower ritual kind, is beyond such things. The result is that the Pañcatattva

have each three meanings. Thus "wine" may be wine (Vira ritual), or it may be

coconut water (Pashu ritual) or it may mean the intoxicating knowledge of the

Supreme attained by Yoga, according as it is used in connection with the Vira,

the Pashu, or the Divya respectively. The Pañcatattva are thus threefold,

namely, real (Pratyaksha-tattva) where "wine" means wine, substitutional

(Anukalpatattva) where wine means coconut water or some other liquid, and

symbolical or divine (Divyatattva) where it is a symbol to denote the joy

of Yoga-knowledge. The Pashu worships with the substitutional Tattvas mentioned

later and never takes wine, the Vira worships with wine, and the Divya's "wine"

is spiritual knowledge. "

......................................................

At this point we may pass to the literal Tattvas. Wine here is not merely

grape-wine but that which is made from various substances such as molasses

(Gaudi), rice (Paishti) or the Madhuka flower (Madhvi) which are said by the

Mahanirvana Tantra (Ch. VI) to be the best. There are others such as wine made

from the juice of the Palmyra and Date tree, and aniseed (Maureya wine). Meat is

of three kinds, that is, animals of the water, earth, and sky. But no female

animal must be slain. Superior kinds of fish are Shala, Pathina, and Rohita.

..............................

SO AS FAR AS i AM CONCERNED THERE IS NO BAR FOR A VIRASADHAKA. I WILL NOT GO

INTO VARIOUS OTHER CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS.

BUT I QUOTED ABOVE JUST TO SHOW THAT THERE IS NOTHING IN SHAKTI SADHANA

PROHIBITING ANYTHING.

 

 

Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote:

, "Devi Bhakta"

<devi_bhakta> wrote:

> Dear Satish:

>

> See what a bloody unrepentant reprobate I am? Ah well, I'll blame the French

and their unholy brews ... ;-)

 

Namaste,

 

Since you grew up in a different culture where people seem to see nothing wrong

about it, it is definitely understandable.

 

I read about a certain incident in Dallas where they considered the marriage of

an Indian couple as incest coz according to US norms a marriage between such

closely related individuals is considered inappropriate. By that standard all

Indians who marry so, can be thought as incestuous by Americans, even though

they may be good and spiritual people.

 

Considering such differences it might be inappropriate to say all those

non-Indians who drink are sinful.

However, IMHO, if one embraces a certain religion, I think it is a good idea

to(to try) abide by what is considered appropriate(in that religion) if one

expects benefits from following(say like reciting LS or Khadgamala) that

whatever religion.

 

Regards

Satish.

 

 

/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SBC - Internet access at a great low price.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have never liked the taste of alcoholic beverages, so I never developed

the habit of drinking them.

 

In a local Indian import store there's an Ayurvedic currant wine called

<draksha> (I think that's how it's called). It is mildly alcoholic, and

recommended as a digestive aide. Is this an Ayurvedic exception to the

"no alcohol" rule?

 

I am still not a vegetarian, but I eat much less of flesh foods than most

Americans. I developed gout in my late 20's, and discovered that beef

was one food that caused raging, painful gout attacks. So (like a good

Hindu) I don't eat beef.

 

Those <vasanas> that I don't give up voluntarily, the Devi forces me to

give up by making me sick!

 

-- Len/ Kalipadma

 

 

On Wed, 19 May 2004 03:21:07 -0000 "Satish Arigela"

<satisharigela writes:

> , "Devi Bhakta"

> <devi_bhakta> wrote:

> > Dear Satish:

> >

> > See what a bloody unrepentant reprobate I am? Ah well, I'll blame

> >the

> > French and their unholy brews ... ;-)

>

> Namaste,

>

> Since you grew up in a different culture where people seem to see

> nothing wrong about it, it is definitely understandable.

>

> I read about a certain incident in Dallas where they considered the

> marriage of an Indian couple as incest coz according to US norms a

> marriage between such closely related individuals is considered

> inappropriate. By that standard all Indians who marry so, can be

> thought as incestuous by Americans, even though they may be good and

>

> spiritual people.

>

> Considering such differences it might be inappropriate to say all

> those non-Indians who drink are sinful.

> However, IMHO, if one embraces a certain religion, I think it is a

> good idea to(to try) abide by what is considered appropriate(in that

>

> religion) if one expects benefits from following(say like reciting

> LS or Khadgamala) that whatever religion.

>

> Regards

> Satish.

>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

"I am still not a vegetarian, but I eat much less of flesh foods than

most Americans. I developed gout in my late 20's, and discovered

that beef was one food that caused raging, painful gout attacks. So

(like a good Hindu) I don't eat beef."

 

You got Gout too! Its nickname the rich man disease. LOL. hmmmm

seafood, nuts , beans "A No ! No!" for you. Its not just beef, but

any meaty stuff like mutton too. Any high protein base another big

NO. LOL.

[Guest guest]

Dear Satish:

 

Thanks for your additional thoughts on this.

 

You note, "Since you grew up in a different culture where people seem

to see nothing wrong about it [i.e., moderate social drinking of

alcohol], it is definitely understandable."

 

Yes, I believe that a certain cultural relativism must be applied in

order to properly understand a lot of these things.

 

For example, in France and some Mediterranian cultures, the

consumption of light alcohols such as wine and champagne is not only

socially acceptable. It is perceived as integral to the prevailing

culture, and even young children will have a glass of wine at social

gatherings. No big deal. Just as in some cultures, the consumption of

meat and poultry is the historical norm and vegetarianism is a

relatively new idea as a social trend.

 

In many parts of India, of course, vegetarianism is the social norm.

In the U.K., Canada, Australia and the U.S., for example,

vegetarianism is socially acceptable as an individual choice --

whether for health, ethical or religious purposes (Benjamin Franklin

was practicing vegetarianism in Boston in the early 1700's) -- but it

is *not* the societal norm.

 

In India, as you note -- as in orthodox Judaic culture or among

relatively isolated groups such as the French Canadians or the

Pennsyvania Dutch, for example -- marriages between close cousins and

so on are the social norm, though many European and European-derived

cultures would consider such practices to be unacceptable.

 

I wonder how much the 5M's of Tantra are a product of the societies in

which they arose? It seems to me that the underlying philosophy of the

5-M's -- as of certain Aghora practices -- is to dramatically and

experientially demonstrate the underlying unity of all things, by

treating as holy what would usually be considered impure or even

profane. But Tantra developed in India, not in France or some other

Western culture. And therefore, the transgression from societal norms

required by some of the 5-M's loses much of its psychological and

physical impact.

 

Obviously, I am not qualified to address such questions with any

authority; I am just wondering aloud. To what extent is "sinful

behavior" societal, and to what extent is it absolute? Is it that act

itself that constitutes the sin, or the individual sense of

transgression? Part of the process of becoming Kaula involves a shift

away from being governed by societal norms, and toward being governed

by intuited norms instilled by diksha and sadhana. But this shift does

not constitute a license to commit any act without conscience or

consequence; rather, it is experienced as an enormous weight of

personal responsibility for all of one's actions, and an enormous

personal obligation to society and to DEVI's service. Is objectively

defined "sin", then, even an operative concept for the Kaula?

 

*** However, IMHO, if one embraces a certain religion, I think it is a

good idea to (to try) abide by what is considered appropriate (in that

religion) if one expects benefits from following (say like reciting

LS or Khadgamala) that whatever religion. ***

 

All of the above aside, this seems extremely reasonable to me. Would

any other members care to contribute their thoughts and opinions on this?

 

Aum Maatangyai Namahe