Guest guest Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 , "sunelectric101" <ouranian@l...> wrote: > Namaste DB & Pranams, > > I read your recent post regarding the Khadgamala Stotram. A couple of > things come to mind. The real meaning and import of Tantrik symbolism > can only be grasped through Sadhana and explanation from a Guru. No > intellectualizing, no matter how erudite, well footnoted and backed > by scholars can ever take the place of the expereince that comes from > Sadhana. > > Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to imply that Srividya is a cult > of anti-intellectualism or a celebration of "know nothingness" but > intellectual understanding is *at best* only auxillary to > *experiencing* what the symbols are pointing to. Too much > intellectualizing about these things without Sadhana is playing with > the surfaces of Srividya. It may be entertaining and even > illuminating but it is still surfaces. Right! Not just entertaining, but it may even work the opposite way, as we can see from DB's mention of that strange and disrespectful attitude displayed towards Khadgamala by that individual(what does she think of herself?). This is what happens when it falls into unworthy hands. > My 2 cents on Siva/Sakti & the Khadgamala Stotram? > Put down the book on gender studies, pick up the Stotram and chant > daily *over a long period of time* relax and observe the changes > within and without. Pray that Devi send you someone to clarify >your > mind and best explain that which you need to know. (winks at >Kochu) Best advice. You could have posted this a little earlier though. Strange that a stotra of such great value inspired gender arguments, politics and irrelevant thoughts instead of spiritual ones. Enjoy! > > Somewhere in San Francisco having fun > > ~SE101 > > "One may be like a child, a madman, a king, > independent minded, like a lord hero.... > Effulgent One, the way to be is to act > howsoever one wills, knowing both Akula and Devi's Kula." > > (Kaula Jnana Nirnaya, XII. 3-6.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 I respectfully disagree that it is best to disregard information of social unrest such as what politics shows, and I encourage incorporating the information to bring harmony rather than fighting. Are you asking what Devi thinks of herself? Or what Amma thinks of herself? I think she thinks about unconditional compassionate love for all living beings, and I agree with that. Om Parashakyai Namah. , "Satish Arigela" <satisharigela> wrote: > , "sunelectric101" > <ouranian@l...> wrote: > > Namaste DB & Pranams, > > > > I read your recent post regarding the Khadgamala Stotram. A couple > of > > things come to mind. The real meaning and import of Tantrik > symbolism > > can only be grasped through Sadhana and explanation from a Guru. > No > > intellectualizing, no matter how erudite, well footnoted and > backed > > by scholars can ever take the place of the expereince that comes > from > > Sadhana. > > > > Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to imply that Srividya is a > cult > > of anti-intellectualism or a celebration of "know nothingness" but > > intellectual understanding is *at best* only auxillary to > > *experiencing* what the symbols are pointing to. Too much > > intellectualizing about these things without Sadhana is playing > with > > the surfaces of Srividya. It may be entertaining and even > > illuminating but it is still surfaces. > > Right! Not just entertaining, but it may even work the opposite way, > as we can see from DB's mention of that strange and disrespectful > attitude displayed towards Khadgamala by that individual(what does > she think of herself?). > This is what happens when it falls into unworthy hands. > > > > My 2 cents on Siva/Sakti & the Khadgamala Stotram? > > Put down the book on gender studies, pick up the Stotram and chant > > daily *over a long period of time* relax and observe the changes > > within and without. Pray that Devi send you someone to clarify > >your > > mind and best explain that which you need to know. (winks at > >Kochu) > > > Best advice. You could have posted this a little earlier though. > Strange that a stotra of such great value inspired gender arguments, > politics and irrelevant thoughts instead of spiritual ones. > > Enjoy! > > > > > > > Somewhere in San Francisco having fun > > > > ~SE101 > > > > "One may be like a child, a madman, a king, > > independent minded, like a lord hero.... > > Effulgent One, the way to be is to act > > howsoever one wills, knowing both Akula and Devi's Kula." > > > > (Kaula Jnana Nirnaya, XII. 3-6.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Namaste MA and Pranams, Regarding your reply below; OK I am game. I will pick up the gender studies if you will pick up the Stotram. What are the names of a couple of books that you like and would reccomend? ~SE101 , "Mary Ann" <maryann@m...> wrote: > I guess thousands of years without thinking and just acting are not > responsible for the violence and oppression in the world? Pick up > your gender studies book and start learning to incorporate it and the > spiritual information together to bring unity and wholeness rather > than compartmentalization and continued violence - that's my > observation, anyway, my 2 cents. Winks at Devi and Amma. > > , "sunelectric101" > <ouranian@l...> wrote: > > Namaste DB & Pranams, > > > > I read your recent post regarding the Khadgamala Stotram. A couple > of > > things come to mind. The real meaning and import of Tantrik > symbolism > > can only be grasped through Sadhana and explanation from a Guru. No > > intellectualizing, no matter how erudite, well footnoted and backed > > by scholars can ever take the place of the expereince that comes > from > > Sadhana. > > > > Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to imply that Srividya is a > cult > > of anti-intellectualism or a celebration of "know nothingness" but > > intellectual understanding is *at best* only auxillary to > > *experiencing* what the symbols are pointing to. Too much > > intellectualizing about these things without Sadhana is playing > with > > the surfaces of Srividya. It may be entertaining and even > > illuminating but it is still surfaces. > > > > My 2 cents on Siva/Sakti & the Khadgamala Stotram? > > Put down the book on gender studies, pick up the Stotram and chant > > daily *over a long period of time* relax and observe the changes > > within and without. Pray that Devi send you someone to clarify your > > mind and best explain that which you need to know. (winks at Kochu) > > > > Somewhere in San Francisco having fun > > > > ~SE101 > > > > "One may be like a child, a madman, a king, > > independent minded, like a lord hero.... > > Effulgent One, the way to be is to act > > howsoever one wills, knowing both Akula and Devi's Kula." > > > > (Kaula Jnana Nirnaya, XII. 3-6.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Devi Bhakta" > > <devi_bhakta> wrote: > > > A member of the group yesterday sent me an interesting comment on > > > the Khadgamala Stotram: basically, she found its core symbolism > to > > > be off-putting -- and as a result is reluctant to try it. Maybe > > > others among you have have reacted similarly, I don't know. In > any > > > event, I felt it was merely a misunderstanding -- but I thought > I'd > > > share my response, and invite other members to comment: > > > > > > The member told me she felt conceptually alienated from the > > > Khadgamala Stotram because, "For me, the symbolism of the SWORD > and > > > the mention of COITUS was enough to send me away. The SWORD is a > > > power symbol." Specifically, she said, one denoting patriarchal > > > domination, as argued in Eisler's "The Chalice and the Blade." > The > > > COITUS of Shakti and Shiva, for its part, was objectionable > because > > > it relied on rigidly enforced social codes and sexual roles. She > > > added an Indian correspondent had once told her that "he sees > > Shakti > > > as power. Hence, a sword. But I see Shakti as energy, limitless > > > possibilities, including for conscious peace and prosperity - not > > as > > > a SWORD." > > > > > > My reply: > > > > > > I agree with your definition of power to a large extent, but not > > > with your interpretation of the symbolism in this particular case. > > > > > > Remember, the Sanskrit word 'SHAKTI' does in fact mean power, or > > > energy. The term 'Shakti Sadhana,' believe it or not, is often > > > translated into English as 'The Cult of Power.' Sir John > > Woodroffe's > > > six-volume survey of Shakta theology and practice is > entitled 'The > > > World as Power.' But Woodroffe, like most commentators, goes out > of > > > his way to clarify that POWER does not imply any kind of earthly > > > coercive force. It simply means POWER as a universal force -- a > > mere > > > synonym for ENERGY, really, which does in fact seem to be a much > > > less loaded, much more neutral term. > > > > > > So let's stick with ENERGY as the definition of SHAKTI. However, > > > let's first acknowledge that in fact POWER is the default > > > translation of the term by most English-speaking Indians. Thus, I > > > would assume, [your correspondent's] use of the term was quite > > > innocent. > > > > > > Whether you call it POWER or ENERGY, the meaning conveyed does > > > indeed encompass yours: 'energy, limitless possibilities, > including > > > for conscious peace and prosperity.' It is *all* Energy, whether > > > perceived (from our perspective) as positive or negative in > effect. > > > Einstein said all matter is energy. Shaktism says everything that > > > is, is energy -- that it constitutes the three worlds, and that > it > > > is all DEVI. SHIVA is the term for Consciousness. Consciousness > > > energized by Power = the UNIVERSE. Energy animated by > CONSCIOUSNESS > > > = the UNIVERSE. Love -- the desire of SHAKTI and SHIVA to Unite -- > > > > is the essence of all Creation. > > > > > > That is where the term 'IN COITUS' comes in. That note in the > > > Khadgamala was mine; the Khadgamala itself says 'on the lap of' -- > > > > but Shaktas are very suspicious of this term, which is often > > > manipulated in mainstream Hinduism into a mini consort goddess on > > > the lap of a gigantic Supreme God. The actual historical- > religious > > > meaning of the term is much more direct: They are having sex. As > > the > > > final verses of the Khadgamala clarify, the configuration is > Shakti > > > sitting atop the supine Shiva -- just as you so often see in > Shakta > > > (and even Shaiva) art. > > > > > > The meaning is that SHAKTI is here fully animated by > Consciousness - > > - > > > as noted elsewhere in the Stotram, She is in an eternal state of > > > orgasm. The human sexual impulse is merely a metaphor for the > > Cosmic > > > Creative Impulse that created that all we see and do not see. Her > > > Energy (or Power, if you will) is fully animated and in a state > of > > > active unfolding of Creation. The Stotram is inviting us to ride > > > that wave with Her; in essence, to become Her. > > > > > > As for the SWORD, I am aware of Eisler's "Chalice and the Blade" > > > analysis, and in general I find her argument to be convincing. To > > be > > > fair, however, Shaktism -- and in fact, Hinduism as a whole -- > has > > a > > > very different, very ancient saet of interpretations for SWORD > > > iconography. Eisler's analysis, I think, applies to Persia and > > > points West -- not to the very different iconographical/religious > > > histories of India, China, Japan, etc. > > > > > > In Hinduism, the SWORD virtually always symbolizes the power > > (Energy) > > > that enables us to transcend attachment, enabling Self- > Realization. > > > The Deity holds the SWORD (be the Deity female or male) as a > > promise > > > to her or his devotee that the Deity will be the portal through > > > which this desireable goal can be achieved. > > > > > > That is the Sword referred to by the Khadgamala. As Amritaji > wrote, > > > specifically describing the Khadgamala's symbolism: "Khadga means > a > > > sword and mala means a garland. The Sword [metaphorically] severs > > > the head, separating body from mind. It can be interpreted also > as > > > Wisdom -- that which separates, categorizes, and classifies. So > > > it is a symbol of Knowledge. Khadgamala is about imagining a > > garland > > > of synergistic ideas, nourishing and protecting them and putting > > > life into them." > > > > > > To me, it sounds like you and he are talking about the same thing! > > > > > > [so ... any comments, corrections or other viewpoints? I'd > welcome > > > your input. ] > > > > > > Aum Maatangyai Namahe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 In a message dated 6/17/2004 12:51:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, maryann writes: > The "phallus" does nothing in terms of reproduction or procreation. > It is an image, a symbol. It's the penis that participates in sexual > acts. I guess we are having biology and physiology lessons as Nora > joked. > I know what you're saying, but I used it to mean penis simply because I thought it sounded better at the time. sheeesh! Yes it's a symbol, but it can also be used to refer to the organ itself as well. Why is everybody picking on me? I agreed with what you said! hahah My only point was that the whole giving/recieving of "love" was being looked at in a very narrow physical sense. Look up phallus and penis will be definition #2 guarenteed, I'm sure you know what I meant, listen if you ladies are going to be getting so aggresive you might as well go the whole way and just cut off my head. hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 I am game to work with the Stotram if you read Chalice & the Blade. The book is on the Shakti Sadhana reading list and it's worth reading if you can make it through. Some find it dense going. I loved it. So far, that is my only recommendation. Thanks for asking , "sunelectric101" <ouranian@l...> wrote: > Namaste MA and Pranams, > > Regarding your reply below; OK I am game. > I will pick up the gender studies if you will pick up the > Stotram. What are the names of a couple of books that you like > and would reccomend? > > > ~SE101 > > > > > > , "Mary Ann" <maryann@m...> > wrote: > > I guess thousands of years without thinking and just acting are not > > responsible for the violence and oppression in the world? Pick up > > your gender studies book and start learning to incorporate it and > the > > spiritual information together to bring unity and wholeness rather > > than compartmentalization and continued violence - that's my > > observation, anyway, my 2 cents. Winks at Devi and Amma. > > > > , "sunelectric101" > > <ouranian@l...> wrote: > > > Namaste DB & Pranams, > > > > > > I read your recent post regarding the Khadgamala Stotram. A > couple > > of > > > things come to mind. The real meaning and import of Tantrik > > symbolism > > > can only be grasped through Sadhana and explanation from a Guru. > No > > > intellectualizing, no matter how erudite, well footnoted and > backed > > > by scholars can ever take the place of the expereince that comes > > from > > > Sadhana. > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to imply that Srividya is a > > cult > > > of anti-intellectualism or a celebration of "know nothingness" > but > > > intellectual understanding is *at best* only auxillary to > > > *experiencing* what the symbols are pointing to. Too much > > > intellectualizing about these things without Sadhana is playing > > with > > > the surfaces of Srividya. It may be entertaining and even > > > illuminating but it is still surfaces. > > > > > > My 2 cents on Siva/Sakti & the Khadgamala Stotram? > > > Put down the book on gender studies, pick up the Stotram and > chant > > > daily *over a long period of time* relax and observe the changes > > > within and without. Pray that Devi send you someone to clarify > your > > > mind and best explain that which you need to know. (winks at > Kochu) > > > > > > Somewhere in San Francisco having fun > > > > > > ~SE101 > > > > > > "One may be like a child, a madman, a king, > > > independent minded, like a lord hero.... > > > Effulgent One, the way to be is to act > > > howsoever one wills, knowing both Akula and Devi's Kula." > > > > > > (Kaula Jnana Nirnaya, XII. 3-6.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Devi Bhakta" > > > <devi_bhakta> wrote: > > > > A member of the group yesterday sent me an interesting comment > on > > > > the Khadgamala Stotram: basically, she found its core symbolism > > to > > > > be off-putting -- and as a result is reluctant to try it. Maybe > > > > others among you have have reacted similarly, I don't know. In > > any > > > > event, I felt it was merely a misunderstanding -- but I thought > > I'd > > > > share my response, and invite other members to comment: > > > > > > > > The member told me she felt conceptually alienated from the > > > > Khadgamala Stotram because, "For me, the symbolism of the SWORD > > and > > > > the mention of COITUS was enough to send me away. The SWORD is > a > > > > power symbol." Specifically, she said, one denoting patriarchal > > > > domination, as argued in Eisler's "The Chalice and the Blade." > > The > > > > COITUS of Shakti and Shiva, for its part, was objectionable > > because > > > > it relied on rigidly enforced social codes and sexual roles. > She > > > > added an Indian correspondent had once told her that "he sees > > > Shakti > > > > as power. Hence, a sword. But I see Shakti as energy, limitless > > > > possibilities, including for conscious peace and prosperity - > not > > > as > > > > a SWORD." > > > > > > > > My reply: > > > > > > > > I agree with your definition of power to a large extent, but > not > > > > with your interpretation of the symbolism in this particular > case. > > > > > > > > Remember, the Sanskrit word 'SHAKTI' does in fact mean power, > or > > > > energy. The term 'Shakti Sadhana,' believe it or not, is often > > > > translated into English as 'The Cult of Power.' Sir John > > > Woodroffe's > > > > six-volume survey of Shakta theology and practice is > > entitled 'The > > > > World as Power.' But Woodroffe, like most commentators, goes > out > > of > > > > his way to clarify that POWER does not imply any kind of > earthly > > > > coercive force. It simply means POWER as a universal force -- a > > > mere > > > > synonym for ENERGY, really, which does in fact seem to be a > much > > > > less loaded, much more neutral term. > > > > > > > > So let's stick with ENERGY as the definition of SHAKTI. > However, > > > > let's first acknowledge that in fact POWER is the default > > > > translation of the term by most English-speaking Indians. Thus, > I > > > > would assume, [your correspondent's] use of the term was quite > > > > innocent. > > > > > > > > Whether you call it POWER or ENERGY, the meaning conveyed does > > > > indeed encompass yours: 'energy, limitless possibilities, > > including > > > > for conscious peace and prosperity.' It is *all* Energy, > whether > > > > perceived (from our perspective) as positive or negative in > > effect. > > > > Einstein said all matter is energy. Shaktism says everything > that > > > > is, is energy -- that it constitutes the three worlds, and that > > it > > > > is all DEVI. SHIVA is the term for Consciousness. Consciousness > > > > energized by Power = the UNIVERSE. Energy animated by > > CONSCIOUSNESS > > > > = the UNIVERSE. Love -- the desire of SHAKTI and SHIVA to > Unite -- > > > > > > is the essence of all Creation. > > > > > > > > That is where the term 'IN COITUS' comes in. That note in the > > > > Khadgamala was mine; the Khadgamala itself says 'on the lap > of' -- > > > > > > but Shaktas are very suspicious of this term, which is often > > > > manipulated in mainstream Hinduism into a mini consort goddess > on > > > > the lap of a gigantic Supreme God. The actual historical- > > religious > > > > meaning of the term is much more direct: They are having sex. > As > > > the > > > > final verses of the Khadgamala clarify, the configuration is > > Shakti > > > > sitting atop the supine Shiva -- just as you so often see in > > Shakta > > > > (and even Shaiva) art. > > > > > > > > The meaning is that SHAKTI is here fully animated by > > Consciousness - > > > - > > > > as noted elsewhere in the Stotram, She is in an eternal state > of > > > > orgasm. The human sexual impulse is merely a metaphor for the > > > Cosmic > > > > Creative Impulse that created that all we see and do not see. > Her > > > > Energy (or Power, if you will) is fully animated and in a state > > of > > > > active unfolding of Creation. The Stotram is inviting us to > ride > > > > that wave with Her; in essence, to become Her. > > > > > > > > As for the SWORD, I am aware of Eisler's "Chalice and the > Blade" > > > > analysis, and in general I find her argument to be convincing. > To > > > be > > > > fair, however, Shaktism -- and in fact, Hinduism as a whole -- > > has > > > a > > > > very different, very ancient saet of interpretations for SWORD > > > > iconography. Eisler's analysis, I think, applies to Persia and > > > > points West -- not to the very different > iconographical/religious > > > > histories of India, China, Japan, etc. > > > > > > > > In Hinduism, the SWORD virtually always symbolizes the power > > > (Energy) > > > > that enables us to transcend attachment, enabling Self- > > Realization. > > > > The Deity holds the SWORD (be the Deity female or male) as a > > > promise > > > > to her or his devotee that the Deity will be the portal through > > > > which this desireable goal can be achieved. > > > > > > > > That is the Sword referred to by the Khadgamala. As Amritaji > > wrote, > > > > specifically describing the Khadgamala's symbolism: "Khadga > means > > a > > > > sword and mala means a garland. The Sword [metaphorically] > severs > > > > the head, separating body from mind. It can be interpreted also > > as > > > > Wisdom -- that which separates, categorizes, and classifies. So > > > > it is a symbol of Knowledge. Khadgamala is about imagining a > > > garland > > > > of synergistic ideas, nourishing and protecting them and > putting > > > > life into them." > > > > > > > > To me, it sounds like you and he are talking about the same > thing! > > > > > > > > [so ... any comments, corrections or other viewpoints? I'd > > welcome > > > > your input. ] > > > > > > > > Aum Maatangyai Namahe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 In a message dated 6/17/2004 1:02:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, satisharigela writes: > Strange that a stotra of such great value inspired gender arguments, > politics and irrelevant thoughts instead of spiritual ones. > haha it must be all that sword" symbolisim making people aggresive hahah and no I am not talking about penises! * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 Dear Devi_bhakta with all due respect,and I am not trying to be smart or funny when I ask this....its been said that the recitation shall give any reciter the sword that will empower him to be the lord of the cosmos....is it that simple?sounds easy.My assumption is ofcourse this has to be done with total devotion. correct me if I am wrong. warm regards. Chumki. , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > Dear Mary Ann: > > Any level of sadhana is effective at its own level. Any sadhana is a > million times than no sadhana. > > Simple praying is effective in general, especially if done on a > regular basis. Countless masses of people will attest to this. > Mantra japa is powerful, and mantra japa with guru diksha even more > so. Chanting Her names is very purifying, and can transform your > world in time. Seva is high sadhana indeed; it is the way we achieve > the state in which our every thought and movement is an act of > worship. > > The Khadgamala, however, is a gateway to an entirely different > level. It is, to use modern parlance, a "power tool." It is a > mystical formula for kicking your sadhana into overdrive; like > switching from typewriter to word processor. I am sorry to bring > these rather crude metaphors into a refined conversation -- but > those who take the time to learn the Khadgamala will very quickly > understand what this means. And I think that is what SE101 is trying > to convey. > > Does the Khadgamala render all other tools obsolete? Of course not; > that is absurd. Even a carpenter with the very best power tools > still uses handtools all the time, as the job requires. But with > power tools, you can often do the job with more efficiency, speed > and precision. So that, for instance, you spend less time building > your home and more time living in it. > > My feeling, again, is this: The Khadgamala Stotram is an > extraordinarily powerful and versatile power tool. As with any power > tool, some will look and say, "Ugh, it's too complicated. Forget > it." Others, though, will take the time to read the instructions, > learn the technique -- and pretty soon (as with cordless drills and > word processors) they'll be saying, "How did I ever live without it?" > > That's why we're going through the headache of getting the > Khadgamala "out there" as a special gift of love to every member. No > one's forcing anyone to open the gift. But if they do, it might > really change their lives. > > That's all. > > Aum Maatangyai Namahe > > > , "Mary Ann" <maryann@m...> > wrote: > > Is chanting the 108 names effective too, or only Khadga Mala > Stotram? > > What about doing seva? What about chanting mantra given by guru? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 , "Chumki" <blueblackeyes> wrote: > > Dear Devi_bhakta > with all due respect,and I am not trying to be smart or funny when > I ask this....its been said that the recitation shall give > any reciter the sword that will empower him to be the lord of the > cosmos....is it that simple?sounds easy.My assumption is > ofcourse this has to be done with total devotion. > correct me if I am wrong. > > warm regards. > > Chumki. > > Is that you Chumki ? Long time. Nice to see you Shyama Dhan Ki Sabai Paye Kali Dhan Ki Sabai Paye Abodh Man Bojhena E Ki Chaye Nirguni Kamalakanta Tabu Se Charana Dhyaye! For those who do not understand Bengali the meaning is this. The wealth of Shyama and Kali, is that easily accessible to all ? The innocent mind still wishes for that not even understanding what it is wishing for. The attributeless Kamalakanta (great devotee of Mother) still meditates upon Mother's Lotus Feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2004 Report Share Posted June 17, 2004 without devotion which must come naturally nothing works Chumki <blueblackeyes wrote: Dear Devi_bhakta with all due respect,and I am not trying to be smart or funny when I ask this....its been said that the recitation shall give any reciter the sword that will empower him to be the lord of the cosmos....is it that simple?sounds easy.My assumption is ofcourse this has to be done with total devotion. correct me if I am wrong. warm regards. Chumki. , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > Dear Mary Ann: > > Any level of sadhana is effective at its own level. Any sadhana is a > million times than no sadhana. > > Simple praying is effective in general, especially if done on a > regular basis. Countless masses of people will attest to this. > Mantra japa is powerful, and mantra japa with guru diksha even more > so. Chanting Her names is very purifying, and can transform your > world in time. Seva is high sadhana indeed; it is the way we achieve > the state in which our every thought and movement is an act of > worship. > > The Khadgamala, however, is a gateway to an entirely different > level. It is, to use modern parlance, a "power tool." It is a > mystical formula for kicking your sadhana into overdrive; like > switching from typewriter to word processor. I am sorry to bring > these rather crude metaphors into a refined conversation -- but > those who take the time to learn the Khadgamala will very quickly > understand what this means. And I think that is what SE101 is trying > to convey. > > Does the Khadgamala render all other tools obsolete? Of course not; > that is absurd. Even a carpenter with the very best power tools > still uses handtools all the time, as the job requires. But with > power tools, you can often do the job with more efficiency, speed > and precision. So that, for instance, you spend less time building > your home and more time living in it. > > My feeling, again, is this: The Khadgamala Stotram is an > extraordinarily powerful and versatile power tool. As with any power > tool, some will look and say, "Ugh, it's too complicated. Forget > it." Others, though, will take the time to read the instructions, > learn the technique -- and pretty soon (as with cordless drills and > word processors) they'll be saying, "How did I ever live without it?" > > That's why we're going through the headache of getting the > Khadgamala "out there" as a special gift of love to every member. No > one's forcing anyone to open the gift. But if they do, it might > really change their lives. > > That's all. > > Aum Maatangyai Namahe > > > , "Mary Ann" <maryann@m...> > wrote: > > Is chanting the 108 names effective too, or only Khadga Mala > Stotram? > > What about doing seva? What about chanting mantra given by guru? / New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 KK wrote : Thank you Noraji for the reference for Sri Chakra . However I was looking for scriptural reference for Khadgamala Stotram. I think it is an excellent work revealed by Divine to 2 shaktha mahans(I hope you dont mind me addresing them such) but I was wondering if it is stated in the shastric work or was it for the first time revealed to this great gurus............... Perhaps you did not get the chance to read my previous message : 10597 "When She, the Supreme Sakti, out of her own will [ assumes ] the form of the universe, observing her own self effusion [ sphurattama ] the [ Sri-]Cakra emerges" Yoninihrdaya tantra, 1.9cd-10ab. And I think there are various others shaktas scriptures. Another source quote to me by our group adviser is the srividyarnava. You have indeed bring out an interesting point, abt Shakta's text/scriptures. Hmmmmm maybe next project. Thank you KK. Sri Cakra is essentially worship of the mother goddess and almost always associate with Sri Vidya. Its origin cannot be precisely determined, but based from what I have read so far, it can be traced back to the Vedic Corpus, especially the Atharva Collection. There is a possibilities [ in my opinion ] that is actually a folk cult with its origins in times preceeding to the formation of the Vedic corpus. But in due time , the folk elements and sophiscated Vedic ideas were fused together and the cult and practices assumed its present form. The worship of Sri Cakra itself is elaborated, complex and can only be undertaken with the guidance of a guru. If you read again Devi Bhakta commentary : "Again, the full pooja of these Devis takes hours, because at each point we pause and do smaller, detailed poojas. Hence the sages of yore created an ALTERNATIVE, SHORT-FORM recitation known as the Khadgamala Stotram more suitable for the demands of modern life. Hours of long ritual compressed to less than half an hour of intense meditation that will give you a ticket on the same plane as the great Srividya Upasakas" Isnt this the role of the gurus, to prescribe rituals or practices that are practical and suitable to us. "I hope others do not end up arguing on this too.." I would say "lets have an intellectual discussion about this". "By the way is can you share what has one to do to learn Sri Vidya upasana since you know Guru Amritanandaji to certain extent. Ever thought of bringing the Mahan to Malaysia as well . Just once at least ........................" I am being told, there are people who spend whole life time looking for Sri Vidya and yet they never find it. There are people who never think about it, and yet they get it. So I do not have the answer to your question : what one has to do to learn Sri Vidya. I shall let our other learned members answer this. I admire and respect Guru Amritananda tremendously, but I have never have the opportunity to meet him in person. He is Devi Bhakta Guru and yes! it is my dream that one day, Guru Amritanandaji would bless us in this part of the world with his presence [ maybe both of us can work this together]. I am sure there are a lot of sadhaka & sadhika here [ Malaysia and Singapore ]who are dying to meet him in person. DEVI's willing, perhaps our dreams will materializes. Lets us send a petition to DEVI. Come on members from Singapore & Malaysia, you all know what to do! I am sure Guru Amritananda is reading this message and smiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Khadgamala stotram is from Sri Amritananda. - N. Madasamy Monday, June 21, 2004 10:59 PM Re: Symbolism of Khadgamala Stotram? KK wrote : Thank you Noraji for the reference for Sri Chakra . However I was looking for scriptural reference for Khadgamala Stotram. I think it is an excellent work revealed by Divine to 2 shaktha mahans(I hope you dont mind me addresing them such) but I was wondering if it is stated in the shastric work or was it for the first time revealed to this great gurus............... Perhaps you did not get the chance to read my previous message : 10597 "When She, the Supreme Sakti, out of her own will [ assumes ] the form of the universe, observing her own self effusion [ sphurattama ] the [ Sri-]Cakra emerges" Yoninihrdaya tantra, 1.9cd-10ab. And I think there are various others shaktas scriptures. Another source quote to me by our group adviser is the srividyarnava. You have indeed bring out an interesting point, abt Shakta's text/scriptures. Hmmmmm maybe next project. Thank you KK. Sri Cakra is essentially worship of the mother goddess and almost always associate with Sri Vidya. Its origin cannot be precisely determined, but based from what I have read so far, it can be traced back to the Vedic Corpus, especially the Atharva Collection. There is a possibilities [ in my opinion ] that is actually a folk cult with its origins in times preceeding to the formation of the Vedic corpus. But in due time , the folk elements and sophiscated Vedic ideas were fused together and the cult and practices assumed its present form. The worship of Sri Cakra itself is elaborated, complex and can only be undertaken with the guidance of a guru. If you read again Devi Bhakta commentary : "Again, the full pooja of these Devis takes hours, because at each point we pause and do smaller, detailed poojas. Hence the sages of yore created an ALTERNATIVE, SHORT-FORM recitation known as the Khadgamala Stotram more suitable for the demands of modern life. Hours of long ritual compressed to less than half an hour of intense meditation that will give you a ticket on the same plane as the great Srividya Upasakas" Isnt this the role of the gurus, to prescribe rituals or practices that are practical and suitable to us. "I hope others do not end up arguing on this too.." I would say "lets have an intellectual discussion about this". "By the way is can you share what has one to do to learn Sri Vidya upasana since you know Guru Amritanandaji to certain extent. Ever thought of bringing the Mahan to Malaysia as well . Just once at least ........................" I am being told, there are people who spend whole life time looking for Sri Vidya and yet they never find it. There are people who never think about it, and yet they get it. So I do not have the answer to your question : what one has to do to learn Sri Vidya. I shall let our other learned members answer this. I admire and respect Guru Amritananda tremendously, but I have never have the opportunity to meet him in person. He is Devi Bhakta Guru and yes! it is my dream that one day, Guru Amritanandaji would bless us in this part of the world with his presence [ maybe both of us can work this together]. I am sure there are a lot of sadhaka & sadhika here [ Malaysia and Singapore ]who are dying to meet him in person. DEVI's willing, perhaps our dreams will materializes. Lets us send a petition to DEVI. Come on members from Singapore & Malaysia, you all know what to do! I am sure Guru Amritananda is reading this message and smiling. / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 Khadgamala has been around for probably centuries. But it has been popularised outside lineages probably by Amritananda natha. I know there is a beautiful rendering by Bombay Sisters. I do not know whether the tape is still available. But for fear of copyright violation I would have put it here in MP3 format. Just listening and meditation you reach the Everest in no time. Its musical and full of bhavana. Detective_Mongo_Phd <detective_mongo_phd wrote: Khadgamala stotram is from Sri Amritananda. - N. Madasamy Monday, June 21, 2004 10:59 PM Re: Symbolism of Khadgamala Stotram? KK wrote : Thank you Noraji for the reference for Sri Chakra . However I was looking for scriptural reference for Khadgamala Stotram. I think it is an excellent work revealed by Divine to 2 shaktha mahans(I hope you dont mind me addresing them such) but I was wondering if it is stated in the shastric work or was it for the first time revealed to this great gurus............... Perhaps you did not get the chance to read my previous message : 10597 "When She, the Supreme Sakti, out of her own will [ assumes ] the form of the universe, observing her own self effusion [ sphurattama ] the [ Sri-]Cakra emerges" Yoninihrdaya tantra, 1.9cd-10ab. And I think there are various others shaktas scriptures. Another source quote to me by our group adviser is the srividyarnava. You have indeed bring out an interesting point, abt Shakta's text/scriptures. Hmmmmm maybe next project. Thank you KK. Sri Cakra is essentially worship of the mother goddess and almost always associate with Sri Vidya. Its origin cannot be precisely determined, but based from what I have read so far, it can be traced back to the Vedic Corpus, especially the Atharva Collection. There is a possibilities [ in my opinion ] that is actually a folk cult with its origins in times preceeding to the formation of the Vedic corpus. But in due time , the folk elements and sophiscated Vedic ideas were fused together and the cult and practices assumed its present form. The worship of Sri Cakra itself is elaborated, complex and can only be undertaken with the guidance of a guru. If you read again Devi Bhakta commentary : "Again, the full pooja of these Devis takes hours, because at each point we pause and do smaller, detailed poojas. Hence the sages of yore created an ALTERNATIVE, SHORT-FORM recitation known as the Khadgamala Stotram more suitable for the demands of modern life. Hours of long ritual compressed to less than half an hour of intense meditation that will give you a ticket on the same plane as the great Srividya Upasakas" Isnt this the role of the gurus, to prescribe rituals or practices that are practical and suitable to us. "I hope others do not end up arguing on this too.." I would say "lets have an intellectual discussion about this". "By the way is can you share what has one to do to learn Sri Vidya upasana since you know Guru Amritanandaji to certain extent. Ever thought of bringing the Mahan to Malaysia as well . Just once at least ........................" I am being told, there are people who spend whole life time looking for Sri Vidya and yet they never find it. There are people who never think about it, and yet they get it. So I do not have the answer to your question : what one has to do to learn Sri Vidya. I shall let our other learned members answer this. I admire and respect Guru Amritananda tremendously, but I have never have the opportunity to meet him in person. He is Devi Bhakta Guru and yes! it is my dream that one day, Guru Amritanandaji would bless us in this part of the world with his presence [ maybe both of us can work this together]. I am sure there are a lot of sadhaka & sadhika here [ Malaysia and Singapore ]who are dying to meet him in person. DEVI's willing, perhaps our dreams will materializes. Lets us send a petition to DEVI. Come on members from Singapore & Malaysia, you all know what to do! I am sure Guru Amritananda is reading this message and smiling. / b.. c.. / New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 , "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > Sri Cakra is essentially worship of the mother goddess and almost > always associate with Sri Vidya. Its origin cannot be precisely > determined, but based from what I have read so far, it can be traced > back to the Vedic Corpus, especially the Atharva Collection. >There is > a possibilities [ in my opinion ] that is actually a folk cult with > its origins in times preceeding to the formation of the Vedic corpus. > But in due time , the folk elements and sophiscated Vedic ideas were > fused together and the cult and practices assumed its present form. One can imagine a 1000 things if they want. SriVidya has its origin from the teachings of Lord Shiva which were revealed to great masters like Manu,Kubera, Nandi, Agastya, Lopamudra, Dattatreya, Parashurama and various other rishis. They "saw" those teachings and imparted the knowledge to their students from which we have all these traditions and manuals which these traditions follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 satish wrote: One can imagine a 1000 things if they want. SriVidya has its origin from the teachings of Lord Shiva which were revealed to great masters like Manu,Kubera, Nandi, Agastya, Lopamudra, Dattatreya, Parashurama and various other rishis. They "saw" those teachings and imparted the knowledge to their students from which we have all these traditions and manuals which these traditions follow. Who is Lord Shiva Satish? I have before me the book [ See im becoming bookish too now hahahahaa] entittled : The cult of Shiva. Interesting Stuff they are writting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 , "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > Who is Lord Shiva Satish? Brahman. >I have before me the book [ See im becoming > bookish too now hahahahaa] entittled : The cult of Shiva. Interesting > Stuff they are writting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Parvati is Brahman. Ganesha is Brahman. Vishnu is Brahman. Lakshmi is Brahman. Sarasvati is Brahman. Indeed, is there any aspect of the Divine that is NOT Brahman? So why single out Lord Shiva? -- Len/ Kalipadma On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 01:39:04 -0000 "Satish Arigela" <satisharigela writes: > , "N. Madasamy" > <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > > > Who is Lord Shiva Satish? > > Brahman. > > > >I have before me the book [ See im becoming > > bookish too now hahahahaa] entittled : The cult of Shiva. > Interesting > > Stuff they are writting. > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 > http://us.click./Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > --~-> > > > > Links > > > > > > ______________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 , kalipadma@j... wrote: > > Parvati is Brahman. > Ganesha is Brahman. > Vishnu is Brahman. > Lakshmi is Brahman. > Sarasvati is Brahman. True. > > Indeed, is there any aspect of the Divine that is NOT Brahman? > > So why single out Lord Shiva? Because it happened that Shiva is the point of discussion in the last two posts by Nora and me in this thread. You may refer the last two posts by Nora and me in the archives, for clarification. sa. > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 01:39:04 -0000 "Satish Arigela" > <satisharigela> writes: > > , "N. Madasamy" > > <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > > > > > Who is Lord Shiva Satish? > > > > Brahman. > > > > > > >I have before me the book [ See im becoming > > > bookish too now hahahahaa] entittled : The cult of Shiva. > > Interesting > > > Stuff they are writting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Can anybody clarify the relationships and/or differences between Shakta, Tantra, and Brahmanical traditions? Is Shakti Sadhana a Shakta-Tantra based group? It seems like we mix a lot of information from many different Hindu-based schools of thought, many of which are contradictory. , kalipadma@j... wrote: > > Parvati is Brahman. > Ganesha is Brahman. > Vishnu is Brahman. > Lakshmi is Brahman. > Sarasvati is Brahman. > > Indeed, is there any aspect of the Divine that is NOT Brahman? > > So why single out Lord Shiva? > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 01:39:04 -0000 "Satish Arigela" > <satisharigela> writes: > > , "N. Madasamy" > > <ashwini_puralasamy> wrote: > > > > > Who is Lord Shiva Satish? > > > > Brahman. > > > > > > >I have before me the book [ See im becoming > > > bookish too now hahahahaa] entittled : The cult of Shiva. > > Interesting > > > Stuff they are writting. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Sponsor > > --------------------~--> > > Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 > > http://us.click./Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/XUWolB/TM > > --~-> > > > > > > > > > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Dear Mary Ann: Please understand at the outset that there are no neat-and-clean answers to your questions. Any attempt to impose absolute categories and rules without exceptions would be misleading and inherently inaccurate. Hinduism is both "a religion/culture" unto itself, *and* a collection of religions and cultures with fairly distinct divisions. Between these divisions, however, are a lot of separable and inseparable parts that are interconnected in unexpected ways, and at various depths. You can't truly understand the part without considering the whole. Many books could (and have) been filled trying to answer your questions. But to help you get a better grip for navigating and thinking about this complexity, I will try to offer a few very brief guideposts in this message: *** Can anybody clarify the relationships and/or differences between Shakta, Tantra, and Brahmanical traditions? *** SHAKTA, or Shaktism, is one of the four main schools or divisions of Hinduism (the other three being Vaishnava, Shaiva and Smartha). Shakta systems are many and diverse, but may be broadly characterized by their worship of the Supreme as Goddess (Shakti or Devi). TANTRA is not itself a religion, but rather denotes a methodology (again, with many and diverse strands). It offers practical techniques and instructions (yes, "tools") that can be used to approach whatever religious system (Hindu or Buddhist) you follow, which enhance, deepen and accelerate spiritual progress within that system. The Shakta religions are often, but not always or necessarily, approached through Tantric techniques of one kind or another. BRAHMANICAL denotes a practice grounded in the Vedas (the brahmanas are one of four primary sections of each Veda). More colloquially, the term suggests a more orthodox, conservative approach to religious practice. Sometimes people therefore categorize approaches to Hinduism as being either "Brahmanic" or "Tantric." But in reality, these labels are very soft and pliable. After thousands of years there has been a tremendous amount of osmosis and mutual influence between the two traditions. *** Is Shakti Sadhana a Shakta-Tantra based group? *** We are a Shakti-based group. That's as specific as I'd go. As noted above, there are many kinds of Shaktism, not all of them Tantric in their approach. Three of this group's moderators are initiates of various schools of SriVidya (which is a Tantric school of Shaktism). But many active members hail from other traditions, not necessarily Tantric in nature, and their views are as welcome as anyone's. I think it's even better to say we are (or strive to be) a Bhakti- based group, as neither "Tantric" nor "Brahmanic" approaches will take you far if you fail to cultivate a real and fundamental devotion and surrender to Devi. *** It seems like we mix a lot of information from many different Hindu-based schools of thought, many of which are contradictory. *** Welcome to the wonderful world of Hinduism! ;-) Hope that helps? DB , "Mary Ann" <maryann@m...> wrote: > Can anybody clarify the relationships and/or differences between > Shakta, Tantra, and Brahmanical traditions? Is Shakti Sadhana a > Shakta-Tantra based group? It seems like we mix a lot of > information from many different Hindu-based schools of thought, > many of which are contradictory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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