Guest guest Posted June 20, 2004 Report Share Posted June 20, 2004 The "khadga" is not just a sword, it is a curved blade used for beheading a sacrifice. (I have a lapel pin shaped like a khadga, which I sometimes wear on my jacket, to remind me to "cut the ego.") Any Indian, any person familiar with Hindu iconography, would look at a khadga and think: Mother Kali. It is the tool invariably associated with the Dark Mother, who sacrifices the Ego. It should be noted that in mundane useage, the khadga is only used by temple sacrificers to behead MALE animals. Female creatures are not supposed to be offered to any deity. In Buddhism (since you appear to be more familiar with Buddhist than with Hindu iconography), the deity usually associated with a sword (it is not a head-chopping sword) is Manjushri, the Bodhisattva of Wisdom. He holds the flaming sword in his right hand, and a lotus in his left hand; on the lotus is a palm-leaf book, symbol of the written texts of Buddhism. My Wiccan teacher was offended by Manjushri. She said, "Ugh! Doesn't he symbolize conversion by the sword? Follow my Buddhist precepts (the book), or be killed (the sword)." But she was again superimposing Western notions onto Oriental imagery. Although Buddhists do proselytize, they have never (to my knowledge) forced anyone to become Buddhist by the sword. It violates the notion of <ahimsa> (non-violence). Manjurshi's sword symbolizes the analytical mind, which cuts through confusion and convoluted notions to attain clear and uncomplicated truth. And Wisdom, in Buddhism, is considered a feminine trait, typified by Manjushri's consort, Sarasvati. My point is that the Khadga is in no way patriarchal -- it is an integral symbol of the Mother in Hinduism, and of a feminine trait in Buddhism. When "coitus" is mentioned in Hindu iconography (I assume this is the translation of <maithuna>, which more accurately may be translated as "coupling"), the images of heterosexual deities so engaged invariably show the woman "on top" -- she is determining the speed, depth, and direction of engulfment/ penetration. Tantric "coitus" has as its object the pleasure and orgasm of the female. The Tantric male participant is supposed to delay orgasm, and to sublimate (if not totally eliminate) ejaculation. This does not sound like patriarchal abuse of women to me. Also, in many Tantric traditions, the "coitus" is purely representational, like the bringing together of a phallic-shaped flower with a vulva-shaped flower, or the entrance of a wand or blade into the opening of a cup of wine. It is perhaps understandable, Mary Ann, that someone whose E-mail provider is named "Me-me-me Productions" might have difficulty grasping the concept of "cutting the Ego." -- Len/ Kalipadma On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 04:21:24 -0000 "Mary Ann" <maryann writes: > Jose, > > That phrase came from Kochu (sankara menon) in an earlier > post to me. I think he felt that my considering the sword, the > mention of coitus, and the phrase "lord of the Cosmos" in the > Khadgamala Stotram as typical patriarchal power imagery > (meaning male-dominant) was superimposing Western ideas > onto Eastern ones. So, I was acknowledging that, being from the > West, I cannot know what it would feel like if I was from the East > and felt that my sacred imagery was being misconstrued. From > some feedback I got to my comments, I know they were found > offensive by some. > > I was (and am) trying to be respectful of others' views, while at > the same time, acknowledging that my understanding of those > symbols - that weapon, the use of that act, and that phrase - > remains the same. > > Mary Ann > ______________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2004 Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Me Me Me is a play on the egoism of the entertainment industry, as well as solfege Mi Mi Mi, the musical (major) scale. It is also a trinity of Mes, each equal to the other. Imagine a comma, and etc. after the Mes, and the name symbolizes the entire world. Swords are swords. We have tools to cut, but swords are weapons. Yes, you can use a sword for protection, but it means might, the power to inflict death by physical force. It causes fear. Your comments about Kali remind me of the book Is the Goddess a Feminist? It's a book full of essays exploring the imagery of the East's many Goddesses and how they fit with feminist principles, which they don't, because they come from patriarchal traditions. Buddhism is not free of patriarchal power imagery, either. Such power symbols and their meanings are in all of us, and will continue to be there until we no longer feel they serve us, or our purposes. Sacrificing any animals causes the animals to suffer, regardless of their gender. As for coitus, if you keep visualizing spiritual unity as penis in vagina or penis in other orifice, how do you bring about this unity within yourself, as one being? I think such imagery plays more into notions of relations between the sexes, even when the image is used for spiritual purposes. Just look at the popular notions of relations between the sexes (even in non-heterosexual relations there is role-playing) - it's power dynamics, more than compassionate love between whole, authentic beings. And I see the Tantric rules you are referring to as just more of the same - notions regarding power and relating, rules to follow, which is a hierachical and patriarchal approach, more than about authentic deep inner being realization that occurs when each individual pays attention within. That's just my opinion. , kalipadma@j... wrote: > > The "khadga" is not just a sword, it is a curved blade used for beheading > a sacrifice. (I have a lapel pin shaped like a khadga, which I sometimes > wear on my jacket, to remind me to "cut the ego.") Any Indian, any > person familiar with Hindu iconography, would look at a khadga and think: > Mother Kali. It is the tool invariably associated with the Dark Mother, > who sacrifices the Ego. > > It should be noted that in mundane useage, the khadga is only used by > temple sacrificers to behead MALE animals. Female creatures are not > supposed to be offered to any deity. > > In Buddhism (since you appear to be more familiar with Buddhist than with > Hindu iconography), the deity usually associated with a sword (it is not > a head-chopping sword) is Manjushri, the Bodhisattva of Wisdom. He holds > the flaming sword in his right hand, and a lotus in his left hand; on the > lotus is a palm-leaf book, symbol of the written texts of Buddhism. > > My Wiccan teacher was offended by Manjushri. She said, "Ugh! Doesn't he > symbolize conversion by the sword? Follow my Buddhist precepts (the > book), or be killed (the sword)." But she was again superimposing > Western notions onto Oriental imagery. Although Buddhists do > proselytize, they have never (to my knowledge) forced anyone to become > Buddhist by the sword. It violates the notion of <ahimsa> > (non-violence). > > Manjurshi's sword symbolizes the analytical mind, which cuts through > confusion and convoluted notions to attain clear and uncomplicated truth. > And Wisdom, in Buddhism, is considered a feminine trait, typified by > Manjushri's consort, Sarasvati. > > My point is that the Khadga is in no way patriarchal -- it is an integral > symbol of the Mother in Hinduism, and of a feminine trait in Buddhism. > > When "coitus" is mentioned in Hindu iconography (I assume this is the > translation of <maithuna>, which more accurately may be translated as > "coupling"), the images of heterosexual deities so engaged invariably > show the woman "on top" -- she is determining the speed, depth, and > direction of engulfment/ penetration. Tantric "coitus" has as its object > the pleasure and orgasm of the female. The Tantric male participant is > supposed to delay orgasm, and to sublimate (if not totally eliminate) > ejaculation. This does not sound like patriarchal abuse of women to me. > > Also, in many Tantric traditions, the "coitus" is purely > representational, like the bringing together of a phallic-shaped flower > with a vulva-shaped flower, or the entrance of a wand or blade into the > opening of a cup of wine. > > It is perhaps understandable, Mary Ann, that someone whose E-mail > provider is named "Me-me-me Productions" might have difficulty grasping > the concept of "cutting the Ego." > > -- Len/ Kalipadma > > > On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 04:21:24 -0000 "Mary Ann" > <maryann@m...> writes: > > Jose, > > > > That phrase came from Kochu (sankara menon) in an earlier > > post to me. I think he felt that my considering the sword, the > > mention of coitus, and the phrase "lord of the Cosmos" in the > > Khadgamala Stotram as typical patriarchal power imagery > > (meaning male-dominant) was superimposing Western ideas > > onto Eastern ones. So, I was acknowledging that, being from the > > West, I cannot know what it would feel like if I was from the East > > and felt that my sacred imagery was being misconstrued. From > > some feedback I got to my comments, I know they were found > > offensive by some. > > > > I was (and am) trying to be respectful of others' views, while at > > the same time, acknowledging that my understanding of those > > symbols - that weapon, the use of that act, and that phrase - > > remains the same. > > > > Mary Ann > > > > ______________ > The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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