Guest guest Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. This hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). Notes (1) This story is related in the Skanda Purana. Brahma liked his daughter and wanted to couple with her. But that didn't meet with the approval of Shiva, who cut off his fifth head. Brahma and Shiva had a great fight, which the latter won. Shiva, however, had committed the sin of killing a Brahmin, an act requiring expiation. Forever afterwards, Shiva in his form of Bhairava, the terrible one, bears the fifth head of Brahma. (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the subcontinent. source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 , "Jose Enrique Rosa" <master4114> wrote: > Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due > to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I > created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. This > hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). > (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This > probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and > faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the > subcontinent. > > source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm Nothing can be more ridiculous than thinking that followers of Shiva have license to kill Brahmins. A great number of Shaiva acharyas,Shaiva saints, and Shaivas are Brahmins. It displays the ignorance of whoever(Mike Magee?) wrote that article. To infer that Shaivas are licensed to kill brahmins from those statements speaks much about the analytical abilities of whoever wrote that article. If one grows up in a society where its history is full of wars, expansion, colonialism and treachery, it is natural for them to think and view every element of other societies and cultures in the same light. As for aryans entering India, the topic is under debate. There is no conclusive proof of Aryans or whoever entering India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 I do not believe that Shaivas/Shaktas have the license to kill anybody, not even an animal (except perhaps when the meet is needed for a ritual in which case it sure is offered to Shiva/Devi before). Alexandra Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote: , "Jose Enrique Rosa" <master4114> wrote: > Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due > to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I > created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. This > hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). > (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This > probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and > faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the > subcontinent. > > source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm Nothing can be more ridiculous than thinking that followers of Shiva have license to kill Brahmins. A great number of Shaiva acharyas,Shaiva saints, and Shaivas are Brahmins. It displays the ignorance of whoever(Mike Magee?) wrote that article. To infer that Shaivas are licensed to kill brahmins from those statements speaks much about the analytical abilities of whoever wrote that article. If one grows up in a society where its history is full of wars, expansion, colonialism and treachery, it is natural for them to think and view every element of other societies and cultures in the same light. As for aryans entering India, the topic is under debate. There is no conclusive proof of Aryans or whoever entering India. / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I am sorry Kaulas are swechaacharis who can do ANYTHING without karma being attached to his actions. But nothing is done by a Kaula without reason and due thinking. Impulsive actions are alien to a kaula. if he kills, he has a reason, and his action is sanctioned. alexandra_108 <alexandra_108 wrote: I do not believe that Shaivas/Shaktas have the license to kill anybody, not even an animal (except perhaps when the meet is needed for a ritual in which case it sure is offered to Shiva/Devi before). Alexandra Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote: , "Jose Enrique Rosa" <master4114> wrote: > Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due > to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I > created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. This > hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). > (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This > probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and > faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the > subcontinent. > > source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm Nothing can be more ridiculous than thinking that followers of Shiva have license to kill Brahmins. A great number of Shaiva acharyas,Shaiva saints, and Shaivas are Brahmins. It displays the ignorance of whoever(Mike Magee?) wrote that article. To infer that Shaivas are licensed to kill brahmins from those statements speaks much about the analytical abilities of whoever wrote that article. If one grows up in a society where its history is full of wars, expansion, colonialism and treachery, it is natural for them to think and view every element of other societies and cultures in the same light. As for aryans entering India, the topic is under debate. There is no conclusive proof of Aryans or whoever entering India. / / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Such convoluted logic is, to say the least, foolish or is it part of a deliberate campaign? I don’t know. Do our friends know that now the claim now is Uttara Kaula is no longer available to Indians because some Britisher who may have flitted along the perimeter of these things said so!! LOL!! Soon they will say all Indian spirituality is not available to Indians as a class because they are ineligible!! This is racism of the highest order. Is it not the height of FOOLISHNESS to say one sixth of humanity is not eligible to access their own heritage? This shows a racist pattern. Have they seen what uttara Kaula is!! Fortunately the lineage is still very much there. No thanks to some white man. See the claims in http://www.mahendranath.org/ino.mhtml I am not using strong words as i should, as a Kaula myself and initiated into the lineage more than 30 years ago. But suffice it to say it is piteous foolishness. The very convoluted logic quoted, in my opinion, shows the foolishness of the claim. Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote: , "Jose Enrique Rosa" <master4114> wrote: > Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. This hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the subcontinent. source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm Nothing can be more ridiculous than thinking that followers of Shiva have license to kill Brahmins. A great number of Shaiva acharyas,Shaiva saints, and Shaivas are Brahmins. It displays the ignorance of whoever(Mike Magee?) wrote that article. To infer that Shaivas are licensed to kill brahmins from those statements speaks much about the analytical abilities of whoever wrote that article. If one grows up in a society where its history is full of wars, expansion, colonialism and treachery, it is natural for them to think and view every element of other societies and cultures in the same light. As for aryans entering India, the topic is under debate. There is no conclusive proof of Aryans or whoever entering India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Where did you read this? sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote:I am sorry Kaulas are swechaacharis who can do ANYTHING without karma being attached to his actions. But nothing is done by a Kaula without reason and due thinking. Impulsive actions are alien to a kaula. if he kills, he has a reason, and his action is sanctioned. alexandra_108 <alexandra_108 wrote: I do not believe that Shaivas/Shaktas have the license to kill anybody, not even an animal (except perhaps when the meet is needed for a ritual in which case it sure is offered to Shiva/Devi before). Alexandra Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote: , "Jose Enrique Rosa" <master4114> wrote: > Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due > to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I > created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. This > hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). > (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This > probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and > faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the > subcontinent. > > source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm Nothing can be more ridiculous than thinking that followers of Shiva have license to kill Brahmins. A great number of Shaiva acharyas,Shaiva saints, and Shaivas are Brahmins. It displays the ignorance of whoever(Mike Magee?) wrote that article. To infer that Shaivas are licensed to kill brahmins from those statements speaks much about the analytical abilities of whoever wrote that article. If one grows up in a society where its history is full of wars, expansion, colonialism and treachery, it is natural for them to think and view every element of other societies and cultures in the same light. As for aryans entering India, the topic is under debate. There is no conclusive proof of Aryans or whoever entering India. / / / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Dear Sankara: I know exactly how you feel and totally agree and understand especially when it comes to a "white wash" mentality and influence. However if you are referring to what I posted then according to the website "the stotra, published in the Kali Rahasya, a Kali puja compendium, is intended to stave off bad fortune and give success. However, it also touches on many of the hidden left-hand (vamachara) practices of Kali. It is translated here into English for the first time" Also from the same source: Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. This hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). Notes (1) This story is related in the Skanda Purana. Brahma liked his daughter and wanted to couple with her. But that didn't meet with the approval of Shiva, who cut off his fifth head. Brahma and Shiva had a great fight, which the latter won. Shiva, however, had committed the sin of killing a Brahmin, an act requiring expiation. Forever afterwards, Shiva in his form of Bhairava, the terrible one, bears the fifth head of Brahma. (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the subcontinent. source: "http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm" and you wrote in message 10729: "I am sorry Kaulas are swechaacharis who can do ANYTHING without karma being attached to his actions. But nothing is done by a Kaula without reason and due thinking. Impulsive actions are alien to a kaula. if he kills, he has a reason, and his action is sanctioned." So then the above mentionig the killing of brahmin would not be something farfetched and erroneous. As it mentions the Kali Rahasya where the stotra came from. Jose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 No!! you are mistaken the statement "2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the subcontinent." is wrong on two premises 1. It does not advocate wanton killing of brahmins or for that matter any killing. 2. The story of Aryan Invasion of India is a colonial myth. 3. Its this sort of suppositions based on erroneeous premises that cause most damage. 4. I do not put any value to these statements as i will not put any value to the pictures in that site. The picture of vaaraahi on the page is all wrong. The items in hands are all wrong. Just like that the notes are also wrong. 5. The story of brahmahatya there is allegorical. Jose Enrique Rosa <master4114 wrote: Dear Sankara: I know exactly how you feel and totally agree and understand especially when it comes to a "white wash" mentality and influence. However if you are referring to what I posted then according to the website "the stotra, published in the Kali Rahasya, a Kali puja compendium, is intended to stave off bad fortune and give success. However, it also touches on many of the hidden left-hand (vamachara) practices of Kali. It is translated here into English for the first time" Also from the same source: Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. This hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). Notes (1) This story is related in the Skanda Purana. Brahma liked his daughter and wanted to couple with her. But that didn't meet with the approval of Shiva, who cut off his fifth head. Brahma and Shiva had a great fight, which the latter won. Shiva, however, had committed the sin of killing a Brahmin, an act requiring expiation. Forever afterwards, Shiva in his form of Bhairava, the terrible one, bears the fifth head of Brahma. (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the subcontinent. source: "http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm" and you wrote in message 10729: "I am sorry Kaulas are swechaacharis who can do ANYTHING without karma being attached to his actions. But nothing is done by a Kaula without reason and due thinking. Impulsive actions are alien to a kaula. if he kills, he has a reason, and his action is sanctioned." So then the above mentionig the killing of brahmin would not be something farfetched and erroneous. As it mentions the Kali Rahasya where the stotra came from. Jose / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Please read my post carefully. I did not say killing is OK so that you can go on a rampage as many sick people do shooting up co-students and what not. What i meant was a Kaula has the freedom. But that does not mean you excercise it at the drop of a hat. And you cannot get it from books on the net or in english copies. Kaula sadhana is not "lisence to kill". alexandra_108 <alexandra_108 wrote: Where did you read this? sankara menon <kochu1tz wrote:I am sorry Kaulas are swechaacharis who can do ANYTHING without karma being attached to his actions. But nothing is done by a Kaula without reason and due thinking. Impulsive actions are alien to a kaula. if he kills, he has a reason, and his action is sanctioned. alexandra_108 <alexandra_108 wrote: I do not believe that Shaivas/Shaktas have the license to kill anybody, not even an animal (except perhaps when the meet is needed for a ritual in which case it sure is offered to Shiva/Devi before). Alexandra Satish Arigela <satisharigela wrote: , "Jose Enrique Rosa" <master4114> wrote: > Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due > to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I > created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. This > hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). > (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This > probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and > faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the > subcontinent. > > source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm Nothing can be more ridiculous than thinking that followers of Shiva have license to kill Brahmins. A great number of Shaiva acharyas,Shaiva saints, and Shaivas are Brahmins. It displays the ignorance of whoever(Mike Magee?) wrote that article. To infer that Shaivas are licensed to kill brahmins from those statements speaks much about the analytical abilities of whoever wrote that article. If one grows up in a society where its history is full of wars, expansion, colonialism and treachery, it is natural for them to think and view every element of other societies and cultures in the same light. As for aryans entering India, the topic is under debate. There is no conclusive proof of Aryans or whoever entering India. / / / / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Dear Sankara: Thank you for the clarification. I guess it can be misconstrued reading note 2. I read your post I did understand that you are not advocating killing. That would be dumb of me! But i did read was that a Kaula has the freedom and I would assume that withing this freedom there is limitation probably due most likely to the Kaula "common senese." Thank you for answering my post. I have enjoyed reading your answers. Thank You Jose , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > Please read my post carefully. > I did not say killing is OK so that you can go on a rampage as many sick people do shooting up co-students and what not. > What i meant was a Kaula has the freedom. But that does not mean you excercise it at the drop of a hat. > And you cannot get it from books on the net or in english copies. > Kaula sadhana is not "lisence to kill". > > alexandra_108 <alexandra_108> wrote: > Where did you read this? > > sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote:I am sorry Kaulas are swechaacharis who can do ANYTHING without karma being attached to his actions. But nothing is done by a Kaula without reason and due thinking. Impulsive actions are alien to a kaula. if he kills, he has a reason, and his action is sanctioned. > > alexandra_108 <alexandra_108> wrote: I do not believe that Shaivas/Shaktas have the license to kill anybody, not even an animal (except perhaps when the meet is needed for a ritual in which case it sure is offered to Shiva/Devi before). > > Alexandra > > Satish Arigela <satisharigela> wrote: > , "Jose Enrique Rosa" > <master4114> wrote: > > Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and > due > > to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I > > created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. > This > > hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). > > (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This > > probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India > and > > faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the > > subcontinent. > > > > source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm > > Nothing can be more ridiculous than thinking that followers of Shiva > have license to kill Brahmins. A great number of Shaiva > acharyas,Shaiva saints, and Shaivas are Brahmins. It displays the > ignorance of whoever(Mike Magee?) wrote that article. > > To infer that Shaivas are licensed to kill brahmins from those > statements speaks much about the analytical abilities of whoever > wrote that article. If one grows up in a society where its history > is full of wars, expansion, colonialism and treachery, it is natural > for them to think and view every element of other societies and > cultures in the same light. > > As for aryans entering India, the topic is under debate. There is no > conclusive proof of Aryans or whoever entering India. > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 OK I am familiar with the website you gave below, he looks pretty white to me. http://www.mahendranath.org/ , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > > Such convoluted logic is, to say the least, foolish or is it part of a deliberate campaign? I don't know. > > Do our friends know that now the claim now is Uttara Kaula is no longer available to Indians because some Britisher who may have flitted along the perimeter of these things said so!! LOL!! Soon they will say all Indian spirituality is not available to Indians as a class because they are ineligible!! This is racism of the highest order. > > Is it not the height of FOOLISHNESS to say one sixth of humanity is not eligible to access their own heritage? This shows a racist pattern. > > Have they seen what uttara Kaula is!! Fortunately the lineage is still very much there. No thanks to some white man. > > See the claims in http://www.mahendranath.org/ino.mhtml > > I am not using strong words as i should, as a Kaula myself and initiated into the lineage more than 30 years ago. But suffice it to say it is piteous foolishness. The very convoluted logic quoted, in my opinion, shows the foolishness of the claim. > > Satish Arigela <satisharigela> wrote: > > , "Jose Enrique Rosa" > <master4114> wrote: > > Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. > This hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). > (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the subcontinent. > source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm > > Nothing can be more ridiculous than thinking that followers of Shiva have license to kill Brahmins. A great number of Shaiva > acharyas,Shaiva saints, and Shaivas are Brahmins. It displays the ignorance of whoever(Mike Magee?) wrote that article. > > To infer that Shaivas are licensed to kill brahmins from those > statements speaks much about the analytical abilities of whoever > wrote that article. If one grows up in a society where its history is full of wars, expansion, colonialism and treachery, it is natural for them to think and view every element of other societies and cultures in the same light. > > As for aryans entering India, the topic is under debate. There is no conclusive proof of Aryans or whoever entering India. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 What about Yogini Kaula? Does it still exist? Alexandra Jose Enrique Rosa <master4114 wrote: OK I am familiar with the website you gave below, he looks pretty white to me. http://www.mahendranath.org/ , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > > Such convoluted logic is, to say the least, foolish or is it part of a deliberate campaign? I don't know. > > Do our friends know that now the claim now is Uttara Kaula is no longer available to Indians because some Britisher who may have flitted along the perimeter of these things said so!! LOL!! Soon they will say all Indian spirituality is not available to Indians as a class because they are ineligible!! This is racism of the highest order. > > Is it not the height of FOOLISHNESS to say one sixth of humanity is not eligible to access their own heritage? This shows a racist pattern. > > Have they seen what uttara Kaula is!! Fortunately the lineage is still very much there. No thanks to some white man. > > See the claims in http://www.mahendranath.org/ino.mhtml > > I am not using strong words as i should, as a Kaula myself and initiated into the lineage more than 30 years ago. But suffice it to say it is piteous foolishness. The very convoluted logic quoted, in my opinion, shows the foolishness of the claim. > > Satish Arigela <satisharigela> wrote: > > , "Jose Enrique Rosa" > <master4114> wrote: > > Shri Mahakala said: A long time ago I decapitated Prajapati, and due to this evil act of slaying a brahmana came to be Bhairava (1). I created this hymn to destroy the sin of brahminicide, dearest. > This hymn destroys the consequence of killing brahmins (2). > (2) So followers of Shiva have a licence to kill brahmins! This probably stems from a time when the Aryan race was entering India and faced opposition from the indigenous tribes already occupying the subcontinent. > source: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tantra/hridaya.htm > > Nothing can be more ridiculous than thinking that followers of Shiva have license to kill Brahmins. A great number of Shaiva > acharyas,Shaiva saints, and Shaivas are Brahmins. It displays the ignorance of whoever(Mike Magee?) wrote that article. > > To infer that Shaivas are licensed to kill brahmins from those > statements speaks much about the analytical abilities of whoever > wrote that article. If one grows up in a society where its history is full of wars, expansion, colonialism and treachery, it is natural for them to think and view every element of other societies and cultures in the same light. > > As for aryans entering India, the topic is under debate. There is no conclusive proof of Aryans or whoever entering India. > > > > > > > > / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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