Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hi Mary Annji- In an earlier post, I mentioned the yoginis who pretty much dropped everything to pursue their spirituality. You asked me about these yoginis. This is my busy time of the year and with family stuff, I've only now had time to get back to you because it a holiday. I think the book that originally has the information is something called the EIGHTY FOUR SIDHAS but I have never seen copies of it. Reginal A. Ray cites it a lot and I think Maranda Shaw does, also. Her book is PASSIONATE ENLIGHTENMENT. Ray is pretty knowledgable but dry... very dry. His point about the Shihas that the path that they pursued came with great cost to them on a lot of levels. The had to break their social conventions to achieve what they wanted to achieve. They would associate with people not of their cast. I would gather there is a certain flavors of Buddhism and Hinduism that are almost puritanically in regime and structure. But despite his dryness, it wasn't until Ray that I understood who and what the Marada Shaw was talking about and what some of my women friends were going after - even though they didn't know themselve - with their practice. People on the outside as well as their husbands and lovers were just as baffled by their spirituality. They are going after the big truth of soul and spirit. I think you know this but our understanding of tantra in the West is seriously skewed. It is not pure and has so much of our ideas in it and about it. The big thing is that we put the cart before the horse in many cases. The spirituality is through the woman for the man and NOT the other way around. Plus we have all our humanistic and scienttific bagage the colors what we see... And I could go on and on about that. I think that if one pursues something - anything - with honesty and single mindedness that is coming from the heart of the self, most people will not understand. Being authentic is difficult and narrow path no matter what you pursue. Pax, Eric PS This group is a real blessing, by the way for me in that it has cauased me to rethink many things and reconsider my view of women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 The tales of the 84 Buddhist Mahasiddhas is called the Abhyadatta. Many of the stories have to do with breaking out of caste. But usually in the converted and developing Mahasiddha. They are not stories of the Dakinis, though there are a few female Mahasiddhas. Sometimes the Dakinis train the upcoming Mahasiddha. In Buddhist tantra women are associated with Prajnaparamita who is the enlightened view. As such, they are venerated as representing the Ultimate. While the male is seen as the skillful means, the female is seen as the View of the Absolute. These two are summed up and represented by the Buddhist mantra Evam. Anyone who studies mantras will see much in the two syllables. - Eric Otto Monday, July 05, 2004 2:17 PM Mary Annji, - getting back to you... Hi Mary Annji- In an earlier post, I mentioned the yoginis who pretty much dropped everything to pursue their spirituality. You asked me about these yoginis. This is my busy time of the year and with family stuff, I've only now had time to get back to you because it a holiday. I think the book that originally has the information is something called the EIGHTY FOUR SIDHAS but I have never seen copies of it. Reginal A. Ray cites it a lot and I think Maranda Shaw does, also. Her book is PASSIONATE ENLIGHTENMENT. Ray is pretty knowledgable but dry... very dry. His point about the Shihas that the path that they pursued came with great cost to them on a lot of levels. The had to break their social conventions to achieve what they wanted to achieve. They would associate with people not of their cast. I would gather there is a certain flavors of Buddhism and Hinduism that are almost puritanically in regime and structure. But despite his dryness, it wasn't until Ray that I understood who and what the Marada Shaw was talking about and what some of my women friends were going after - even though they didn't know themselve - with their practice. People on the outside as well as their husbands and lovers were just as baffled by their spirituality. They are going after the big truth of soul and spirit. I think you know this but our understanding of tantra in the West is seriously skewed. It is not pure and has so much of our ideas in it and about it. The big thing is that we put the cart before the horse in many cases. The spirituality is through the woman for the man and NOT the other way around. Plus we have all our humanistic and scienttific bagage the colors what we see... And I could go on and on about that. I think that if one pursues something - anything - with honesty and single mindedness that is coming from the heart of the self, most people will not understand. Being authentic is difficult and narrow path no matter what you pursue. Pax, Eric PS This group is a real blessing, by the way for me in that it has cauased me to rethink many things and reconsider my view of women. / b.. c.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hi Eric: Thanks for your post. I have read the Miranda Shaw book you mention. I also appreciate this group. I have been recognizing here in the group that while many members may not understand or identify with female or feminist perspectives, more and more, group members are acting more respectful of, and open to, such perspectives. There seems to be an awareness that such perspectives are not out to blame or make wrong or undo any of the good in spiritual traditions. At least, that is what I have been experiencing in this group. I like what you say about your women friends: "They are going after the big truth of soul and spirit." I feel your perspective has really opened up a lot since I first started reading your posts, yet it is probably true that mine has, also. Mary Ann , "Eric Otto" <eottoe2001> wrote: > Hi Mary Annji- > > In an earlier post, I mentioned the yoginis who pretty much dropped > everything to pursue their spirituality. You asked me about these > yoginis. This is my busy time of the year and with family stuff, I've > only now had time to get back to you because it a holiday. > > I think the book that originally has the information is something > called the EIGHTY FOUR SIDHAS but I have never seen copies of it. > Reginal A. Ray cites it a lot and I think Maranda Shaw does, also. > Her book is PASSIONATE ENLIGHTENMENT. Ray is pretty knowledgable but > dry... very dry. > > His point about the Shihas that the path that they pursued came with > great cost to them on a lot of levels. The had to break their social > conventions to achieve what they wanted to achieve. They would > associate with people not of their cast. I would gather there is a > certain flavors of Buddhism and Hinduism that are almost puritanically > in regime and structure. But despite his dryness, it wasn't until Ray > that I understood who and what the Marada Shaw was talking about and > what some of my women friends were going after - even though they > didn't know themselve - with their practice. People on the outside > as well as their husbands and lovers were just as baffled by their > spirituality. They are going after the big truth of soul and spirit. > > I think you know this but our understanding of tantra in the West is > seriously skewed. It is not pure and has so much of our ideas in it > and about it. The big thing is that we put the cart before the horse > in many cases. The spirituality is through the woman for the man and > NOT the other way around. Plus we have all our humanistic and > scienttific bagage the colors what we see... > > And I could go on and on about that. > > I think that if one pursues something - anything - with honesty and > single mindedness that is coming from the heart of the self, most > people will not understand. Being authentic is difficult and narrow > path no matter what you pursue. > > Pax, > > Eric > > PS This group is a real blessing, by the way for me in that it has > cauased me to rethink many things and reconsider my view of women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hi Again Mary Annji - Mongo Detective has a better handle of the concepts than I do so his post was more to the point and better explained. The general direction of the idea is correct for he and I both. > I have been recognizing > here in the group that while many members may not understand > or identify with female or feminist perspectives, more and more, > group members are acting more respectful of, and open to, such > perspectives. There seems to be an awareness that such > perspectives are not out to blame or make wrong or undo any of > the good in spiritual traditions. The truth is not a lot of feminist here in the West recognize or understand the female or feminist perspective. Betty Friedan has gone through some revisions of her thinking from THE FEMININE MYSTIQUE. Gloria Stienem has changed a number of views since she has married. As a number of women are maturing that were feminists, they are bringing wisdom to it from experience and knowing more about who they are. Camille Paglia would probably be very comfortable here. The interesting part of this group is that the dialogue is going on in that it is strangely a two way street between both sides. Maybe the BIG IDEA that they are offering is that you don't disrespect the woman and you don't disrespect the man. So much disrespect goes along with sexuality and gender. The fact that they acknowledge and accept their sexuality outright and that is very liberating. > At least, that is what I have been > experiencing in this group. I like what you say about your women > friends: "They are going after the big truth of soul and spirit." > I feel your perspective has really opened up a lot since I first > started reading your posts, yet it is probably true that mine has, > also. Hasn't it though... We are very fortunate to be part of this ride - especially for me as a man. There has been real change with me in terms of how I deal with everyone from the rethinking of how I relate to women. About a year ago, a woman who is tantra practioner invited me to her apartment. Our big experience was that she washed my feet and told me that I had forgotten who I was. This was baffling to me but I remember leaving and leaving the criticism too of sisters, mothers, lovers behind. All of what I knew of "women" was no longer valid nor what I knew of myself through or by them. All that criticism was external to me and to them. They were not who they were and I wasn't who I thought I was. Lovely moment, that. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 Dear Detective Mongo: Thank you for this information. So it seems Miranda Shaw's work is the only work thus far dedicated to the yoginis - that was her purpose, after all, writing about women in Tantric Buddhism. Interesting about the Abhyadatta's stories re breaking out of caste. Did you see my original post about the Oriya Hindus? According to the researchers, the people interviewed see gender as the one caste that is not able to be broken out of. I think there is a difference between recognizing and acknowledging each gender for its respective gifts, and maintaining a hierarchical social order built around gender. (Yes that's the point I'm always on about Mary Ann , "Detective_Mongo_Phd" <detective_mongo_phd@h...> wrote: > The tales of the 84 Buddhist Mahasiddhas is called the Abhyadatta. Many of the stories have to do with breaking out of caste. But usually in the converted and developing Mahasiddha. They are not stories of the Dakinis, though there are a few female Mahasiddhas. Sometimes the Dakinis train the upcoming Mahasiddha. > > In Buddhist tantra women are associated with Prajnaparamita who is the enlightened view. As such, they are venerated as representing the Ultimate. While the male is seen as the skillful means, the female is seen as the View of the Absolute. These two are summed up and represented by the Buddhist mantra Evam. Anyone who studies mantras will see much in the two syllables. > - > Eric Otto > > Monday, July 05, 2004 2:17 PM > Mary Annji, - getting back to you... > > > Hi Mary Annji- > > In an earlier post, I mentioned the yoginis who pretty much dropped > everything to pursue their spirituality. You asked me about these > yoginis. This is my busy time of the year and with family stuff, I've > only now had time to get back to you because it a holiday. > > I think the book that originally has the information is something > called the EIGHTY FOUR SIDHAS but I have never seen copies of it. > Reginal A. Ray cites it a lot and I think Maranda Shaw does, also. > Her book is PASSIONATE ENLIGHTENMENT. Ray is pretty knowledgable but > dry... very dry. > > His point about the Shihas that the path that they pursued came with > great cost to them on a lot of levels. The had to break their social > conventions to achieve what they wanted to achieve. They would > associate with people not of their cast. I would gather there is a > certain flavors of Buddhism and Hinduism that are almost puritanically > in regime and structure. But despite his dryness, it wasn't until Ray > that I understood who and what the Marada Shaw was talking about and > what some of my women friends were going after - even though they > didn't know themselve - with their practice. People on the outside > as well as their husbands and lovers were just as baffled by their > spirituality. They are going after the big truth of soul and spirit. > > I think you know this but our understanding of tantra in the West is > seriously skewed. It is not pure and has so much of our ideas in it > and about it. The big thing is that we put the cart before the horse > in many cases. The spirituality is through the woman for the man and > NOT the other way around. Plus we have all our humanistic and > scienttific bagage the colors what we see... > > And I could go on and on about that. > > I think that if one pursues something - anything - with honesty and > single mindedness that is coming from the heart of the self, most > people will not understand. Being authentic is difficult and narrow > path no matter what you pursue. > > Pax, > > Eric > > PS This group is a real blessing, by the way for me in that it has > cauased me to rethink many things and reconsider my view of women. > > > > > Sponsor > > > > > > > > Links > > > / > > b.. > > > c.. Terms of Service. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.