Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Pranam. Please read this petition and sign it.If possible, please forward it to others as well. http://www.petitiononline.com/art18udh/petition.html With Love Shankaree Let my every word be a prayer to Thee, Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee, Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image, Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee, Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet; Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do, Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee." >From Verse 27 of Shri Aadi Shankara's Saundaryalahari Does your mail provider give you a FREE online calendar? does. Get Mail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Thank you Shankaree for forwarding this petition. IMHO, I just feel this is one of those many petitions that is really wrong and it violates the basic human right issues. We should be looking at our own weakness and find a solution to it, instead of trying to push the blame on others. This is my basic stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Pranam, Noraji. I accept that we should look into our own weaknesses and find solutions that strengthen us. However, I do feel that Swami Dayananda Saraswathi's letter is valid. Anyways, that is just my humble opinion. With Love Shankaree "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy wrote: Thank you Shankaree for forwarding this petition. IMHO, I just feel this is one of those many petitions that is really wrong and it violates the basic human right issues. We should be looking at our own weakness and find a solution to it, instead of trying to push the blame on others. This is my basic stand. / Let my every word be a prayer to Thee, Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee, Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image, Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee, Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet; Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do, Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee." >From Verse 27 of Shri Aadi Shankara's Saundaryalahari ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 shankaree wrote :Pranam, Noraji. I accept that we should look into our own weaknesses and find solutions that strengthen us. However, I do feel that Swami Dayananda Saraswathi's letter is valid. Anyways, that is just my humble opinion. Firstly Shankaree, I am not against anyone forwarding this message to the group. Its okay with me and Yes! Shankaree, I agree, Swami Dayananda Saraswathi's letter is valid and but my concern is what will this lead us to? Its going to be a slippery slope issue and we are using the United Nation to solve our own weakness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Pranam, Noraji. *Firstly Shankaree, I am not against anyone forwarding this message to the group. Its okay with me* I understand and I hope that my mails have not conveyed otherwise. * Its going to be a slippery slope issue and we are using the United Nation to solve our own weakness?* My issue, Noraji, is not in people coverting because they have reserched and understood and have finally come to that decision. As you say, it is a basic human right. My issue is in aggressive conversion. I read or heard somewhere, {My memory is not too good nowadays:-)), probably getting too old} that Christian missionaries were attempting to convert people who live in tribal areas by getting a metal murty of Krishna and a wooden murty of Jesus and throwing both into a vat of water. And when the murty of Krishna sinks, they said that Krishna could not even save Himself, so how can He save you? The UN still carries a little weight. If such a resolution is passed, then it will be accepted that the Nations in the UN accept that aggressive conversion is morally wrong. However, I am also interested in the various ways that we can help our fellow brethern. What would you propose that we as a group could do? I have often thought that maybe we could make a differance together but I don't know how to go about doing it. After all, it is easy (well, for me, anyway) to just donate a sum of money. I want to do more. Maybe, other members have any ideas, as well? With Love Shankaree Let my every word be a prayer to Thee, Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee, Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image, Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee, Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet; Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do, Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee." >From Verse 27 of Shri Aadi Shankara's Saundaryalahari ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Namaste Everybody, have anybody herad about Saiva Siddhantha Church conversion process in Malaysia and Singapore ? Jai Maa!! shankaree ramatas <shankaree wrote: Pranam, Noraji. *Firstly Shankaree, I am not against anyone forwarding this message to the group. Its okay with me* I understand and I hope that my mails have not conveyed otherwise. * Its going to be a slippery slope issue and we are using the United Nation to solve our own weakness?* My issue, Noraji, is not in people coverting because they have reserched and understood and have finally come to that decision. As you say, it is a basic human right. My issue is in aggressive conversion. I read or heard somewhere, {My memory is not too good nowadays:-)), probably getting too old} that Christian missionaries were attempting to convert people who live in tribal areas by getting a metal murty of Krishna and a wooden murty of Jesus and throwing both into a vat of water. And when the murty of Krishna sinks, they said that Krishna could not even save Himself, so how can He save you? The UN still carries a little weight. If such a resolution is passed, then it will be accepted that the Nations in the UN accept that aggressive conversion is morally wrong. However, I am also interested in the various ways that we can help our fellow brethern. What would you propose that we as a group could do? I have often thought that maybe we could make a differance together but I don't know how to go about doing it. After all, it is easy (well, for me, anyway) to just donate a sum of money. I want to do more. Maybe, other members have any ideas, as well? With Love Shankaree Let my every word be a prayer to Thee, Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee, Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image, Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee, Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet; Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do, Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee." >From Verse 27 of Shri Aadi Shankara's Saundaryalahari ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself / Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Namaste Shankareeji, I agree with Nora on this matter , let us build our internal strenght in our community . We can do this in various ways. Educational article on the inner meaning of practices/rituals , suppporting any spiritual activities whether by financial ,physical or social assiistance . Having activities in temple to educate the youngsters , having in the inter -temple actvities for social projects, conduct inter-workshops and multi cultural conferences on spiritual topics........................ Jai Maa!!! "N. Madasamy" <ashwini_puralasamy wrote: Thank you Shankaree for forwarding this petition. IMHO, I just feel this is one of those many petitions that is really wrong and it violates the basic human right issues. We should be looking at our own weakness and find a solution to it, instead of trying to push the blame on others. This is my basic stand. / Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Vanakkam Shankaree and all Shankare wrote, "I understand and I hope that my mails have not conveyed otherwise" Nope Shankaree, in fact I have always look forward to your post, even thought they sometimes comes blank [as you are aware we have disable file attachment. So any message attached with File will appear as blank message to us], I always appreciate whatever you have send to us. And I hope you will continue to do so. "My issue is in aggressive conversion. Those Christian missionaries were attempting to convert people who live in tribal areas by getting a metal murty of Krishna and a wooden murty of Jesus and throwing both into a vat of water. And when the murty of Krishna sinks, they said that Krishna could not even save Himself, so how can He save you?" Well that is another dirty old trick they have adopted. Frankly nothing new. The Muslims have done the same thing too. I have been shown the same trick, but it goes back to the mind. The mind says: yes! I can see that, but you see these people are not stupid people. They are intelligent and educated people. What is that these people see in these murty that I don't? And this mind with great hunger to know which leads to another … The Quest To knows more! That is where the problem lies too, while these missionary make an attempt to go deep into the tribal areas, what are we doing about it? We just sit here, watch and feeling so helpless? "The UN still carries a little weight. If such a resolution is passed, then it will be accepted that the Nations in the UN accept that aggressive conversion is morally wrong" To be honest, in my opinion, I don't think so the UN will be able to do anything or their resolution will carry any weight. Look at the Iraq War, despite the UN resolution, both the US and UK ignored them. There are some who even questions the function of UN. Is the UN an effective International Organization now? But we are not here to discuss about this UN issues are we? We are talking about aggressive conversion, let get back to the main topic shall we? "However, I am also interested in the various ways that we can help our fellow brethren. What would you propose that we as a group could do? I have often thought that maybe we could make a difference together but I don't know how to go about doing it. After all, it is easy (well, for me, anyway) to just donate a sum of money. I want to do more. Maybe, other members have any ideas, as well?" Yes! We could, if only all of us are together. In another group, somebody comes and say "the Hindus are being mislead, and its time for us to wake up and bring them back to the right path. Lets form this International Hindu Movement to unite all Hindus. I have found a formula and it have been proven to be successful" yeah! I said, I'm with you, but what are your formulas. What are these great plans of yours. Put it here with us so that all of us can see, but NO! NO! He said, we need to brain storm it first and its suppose to be a secret and have this secret meeting place, you contact me personally and I will tell you the meeting place etc" Gosh! Good question: what can we as a group do? Krishnan has elaborate several relevant issues: Educational article on the inner meaning of practices/rituals, supporting any spiritual activities whether by financial, physical or social assistance. Having activities in temple to educate the youngsters, having in the inter -temple activities for social projects, conduct inter-workshops and multi cultural conferences on spiritual topics. When I organize the Inner Bliss and Harmony talk in Singapore sometime back, we have initially several youth promise to come and support, then at the last minute they change their mind "No! I will not come because such and such a person will be there. Etc…" We have such a distinguished speaker coming all the way from India, and for the first time to give us such a talk, and all they care about is this petty things. I am not upset nor disappointed either. I feel that is how the community or our youth are perhaps. Can we fault them? This tells us one thing: the mindset of our people needs to be change. And we need to educate and guide our youth from young, because it's the youth of today that will be the leaders of tomorrow. In Singapore we have the project bhakti [see the link below] organized by the Singapore Hindu Endowment Board. http://www.geocities.com/Project_bhakti/ Basically this is what the project is all about: It is a community project in Singapore that explores the basic knowledge, teachings and concepts in Hinduism, which is open to any God lover. In the current society of communal hatred and sectarian violence, it's high time we remember the gentle message of love and worship. The main aim of this project is to cultivate the feeling of universal peace into every seeker, invoking the sense of devotion for the Supreme reality, the Almighty. We proposed this project with the emphasis on the future leaders of the world – The Children. It is very essential to mold the children of present generation to develop them both intellectually and spiritually, maintaining a steady balance in the juggle of life between the material world and thy self. An intense emotional attachment and love of a devotee towards god is our main focus. Yes! I agree with you, giving money is the easiest thing and the most difficult is physical effort. Nobody wants to take the time off to help up, after all we have given the money, lets others take the time to offer physical help, we are too busy with our work commitment. Isn't this the common excuse? Back to our sadhana: Can we pay somebody to do the Sadhana for us? If we want something, we have to work for it. Real benefits are when we actually do it ourselves with devotion. Sorry for the rumbling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Namaste! Very interesting information, but it does not describe all that occurs on former USSR. For example, my country – Ukraine. Under the constitution, Ukraine is democratic and secular state, where everyone has the right to following any religion or system of ethical values. In a reality, the Orthodox Church is the state religion, and the country constantly name orthodox, that already is infringement of the law. The state is silent, when the orthodox society throws mud at other faiths, what to speak about Hindu Dharma or Buddhism, if Islam (the related religion for Christians) has no full freedom. On the general background of despondency of the population and huge financial problems of the country, Government building great churches when thousand people are poor and live in the street. It is not full picture of a situation in Ukraine. In Ukraine, there is thousands followers of Hinduism, but really to achieve an official recognition is impossible. Therefore, in Ukraine where lives temporarily or constantly thousand ethnic Indians and thousand "europian" followers does not exist any Hindu Mandir , though in the West construction Hindu Mandir in the Indian diasporas prospers. Though here very well prosper business of the guru, ISKKON for which Hinduism is pagan religion, etc. Very good this Petition. Very well when speak about problems of other people. However, always other side of this care when you write letters to religious leaders or teachers with the request surprises to pay attention to such problems in the former USSR or simply people write to much Swami or the Guru the full indifference and indifference is shown. In my opinion, can is it necessary to reflect Hinduisms leaders what would be advisable to arrive where for them really wait and require? If Christian missioners go to Asia and violently drive to people Christian values. Maybe Hinduism leaders is necessary arrive the West where thousand people following Hinduism and will accept spiritual riches of Sanatana Dharma on the sincere qualities. How do you think, what signing petitions or the real help is more important? Excuse, if someone has offended. Sincerely Madan Mohan. Mail is new and improved - Check it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Check out www.gurudeva.org(the home page for the Saiva Siddhanta Church); unlike the often mindless missionary conversion tactics, it is very tough to get into this Saiva Sangam (I myself am a dropout after several years of study); if you are talking of conversion as in formal adoption of Hinduism, this is done by the Saiva Siddhanta Church with a simple ceremony and is open to all; they dont go around proselytising people, it is by choice alone. -yogaman ps. The name church is a little misleading; they belong to a monistic Saiva Siddhanta lineage , kanna krishnan <kanna_krishnan2002> wrote: > Namaste Everybody, > > have anybody herad about Saiva Siddhantha Church conversion process in Malaysia and Singapore ? > > Jai Maa!! > > shankaree ramatas <shankaree> wrote: > Pranam, Noraji. > > *Firstly Shankaree, I am not against anyone forwarding this message to the group. Its okay with me* > > I understand and I hope that my mails have not conveyed otherwise. > > * Its going to be a slippery slope issue and we > are using the United Nation to solve our own weakness?* > > My issue, Noraji, is not in people coverting because they have reserched and understood and have finally come to that decision. As you say, it is a basic human right. My issue is in aggressive conversion. I read or heard somewhere, {My memory is not too good nowadays:-)), probably getting too old} that Christian missionaries were attempting to convert people who live in tribal areas by getting a metal murty of Krishna and a wooden murty of Jesus and throwing both into a vat of water. And when the murty of Krishna sinks, they said that Krishna could not even save Himself, so how can He save you? > > The UN still carries a little weight. If such a resolution is passed, then it will be accepted that the Nations in the UN accept that aggressive conversion is morally wrong. > > However, I am also interested in the various ways that we can help our fellow brethern. What would you propose that we as a group could do? I have often thought that maybe we could make a differance together but I don't know how to go about doing it. After all, it is easy (well, for me, anyway) to just donate a sum of money. I want to do more. Maybe, other members have any ideas, as well? > > With Love > > Shankaree > > > > Let my every word be a prayer to Thee, > Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee, > Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image, > Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee, > Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet; > Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do, > Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee." > > From Verse 27 of Shri Aadi Shankara's Saundaryalahari > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Namaste Yogaman , Just wanted to share ; http://murugan.org/research/belle.htm This article reveal the agamicization process (they do not call it conversion) of ancient practice in Malaysia and Singapore by Hindu Sangam to Saiva Siddhantha practices. The result of this movement are both unpredictable and uneven and maybe subject to active resistance and manupulation according to the author of the article . You could read the details in the article on how a so called village deity temple( mostly shaktha and kaumaram origins) are converted slowly from pucari based alayam to brahmanical priest based temple. I dont think even ISKCON called their process as conversion as well - this words were popularly used for the christian churches. Any comments anyone ? Jai Maa!!! childofdevi <childofdevi wrote: Check out www.gurudeva.org(the home page for the Saiva Siddhanta Church); unlike the often mindless missionary conversion tactics, it is very tough to get into this Saiva Sangam (I myself am a dropout after several years of study); if you are talking of conversion as in formal adoption of Hinduism, this is done by the Saiva Siddhanta Church with a simple ceremony and is open to all; they dont go around proselytising people, it is by choice alone. -yogaman ps. The name church is a little misleading; they belong to a monistic Saiva Siddhanta lineage , kanna krishnan <kanna_krishnan2002> wrote: > Namaste Everybody, > > have anybody herad about Saiva Siddhantha Church conversion process in Malaysia and Singapore ? > > Jai Maa!! > > shankaree ramatas <shankaree> wrote: > Pranam, Noraji. > > *Firstly Shankaree, I am not against anyone forwarding this message to the group. Its okay with me* > > I understand and I hope that my mails have not conveyed otherwise. > > * Its going to be a slippery slope issue and we > are using the United Nation to solve our own weakness?* > > My issue, Noraji, is not in people coverting because they have reserched and understood and have finally come to that decision. As you say, it is a basic human right. My issue is in aggressive conversion. I read or heard somewhere, {My memory is not too good nowadays:-)), probably getting too old} that Christian missionaries were attempting to convert people who live in tribal areas by getting a metal murty of Krishna and a wooden murty of Jesus and throwing both into a vat of water. And when the murty of Krishna sinks, they said that Krishna could not even save Himself, so how can He save you? > > The UN still carries a little weight. If such a resolution is passed, then it will be accepted that the Nations in the UN accept that aggressive conversion is morally wrong. > > However, I am also interested in the various ways that we can help our fellow brethern. What would you propose that we as a group could do? I have often thought that maybe we could make a differance together but I don't know how to go about doing it. After all, it is easy (well, for me, anyway) to just donate a sum of money. I want to do more. Maybe, other members have any ideas, as well? > > With Love > > Shankaree > > > > Let my every word be a prayer to Thee, > Every movement of my hands a ritual gesture to Thee, > Every step I take a circumambulation of Thy image, > Every morsel I eat a rite of sacrifice to Thee, > Every time I lay down a prostration at Thy feet; > Every act of personal pleasure and all else that I do, > Let it all be a form of worshiping Thee." > > From Verse 27 of Shri Aadi Shankara's Saundaryalahari > > > > > ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself > > > > > Sponsor > > > > Links > > > / > > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > Vote for the stars of 's next ad campaign! > > / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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