Guest guest Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Here's a really interesting article from the Washington Square News, the student newspaper of New York University. It's by a Gender & Sexuality Studies major named Sriya Shrestha: WHY I HATE MADONNA: Subtle Racisms and the Exotification of My South Asian Self Sitting in NYU classrooms, I am struck by the extremely light, tiptoe approach students take when it comes to racial issues. They strain to make sure they leave only tiny marks behind, nothing to offend anyone. Nothing can be said, no generalizations can be made, because that would be prejudiced, stereotypical and negative. Yet in taking these painfully planned baby steps, most manage to be grossly ignorant, racist and ridiculous - usually without even noticing. Still, everyone continues to strain for those tiny steps. During a small group discussion on everyday racism in my South Asian diaspora class, my classmates were constantly qualifying their statements: "Not all [blanks] do this, of course, just some." When I mentioned that I am often exotified -- seen with disgusting oriental fantasies by white men, and never Asian men -- my white male groupmate delicately reminded me I was on the verge of making a gross generalization. I replied that it was not a generalization; it was the truth. But wait, I was reminded, you don't want to say that all white men would look at you like that and that no Asian men would. That is true; I did not want to say that, and I hadn't. What I think my concerned classmate was doing was simply mentioning that some - not him necessarily - may think I was being a reverse- racist. And I believe this same deep-seated white fear of reverse racism fueled the sudden, fierce anger expressed by some white (or should I call them Caucasian?) students during a later discussion at the idea that perhaps there was something slightly more offensive about Madonna wearing a bindi, sari and henna then there was about her donning and defaming the Catholic cross. White kids think the same rules apply to them, about what can be said and what can't, and in my experience many students of color feel the same way. Nearly everyone at NYU shudders at the thought of offending anyone, but what they lack is actual knowledge of what is offensive, how and why. Rather, they attempt to be politically correct, using terms like African-American and Hispanic, but still managing to claim that a black student has the same benefits as a white one if they both come from an elite private school or that Latino immigrant workers should be grateful for the low-wage, exploitative jobs they find in the United States. These PC pushers still manage to be out of touch with reality, out of touch with what racism, sexism, heterosexism and prejudice really is. They do not understand that a history exists that makes Madonna's flippant, fleeting usage of South Asian-Hindu fashion and culture a bit offensive. A history in which we have been the source of the West's stories of mystery, enchantment, oddity and the exotic. We have always been trinkets and charming tales. We are brass pots and spiritual men who can float; and tongue-tickling spices and thick, luxurious rugs; and skinny, starvation-swelled bellies standing in a brown mass waiting to be saved by British food and religion. We are the women who, due to a lack of a strong Western-style feminism, starve, suffocate and drown our baby girls for not being baby boys. We are anything but human. And now, many years after British colonialism, in a global market run by U.S. imperialism, we are once again remembered by our trinkets. While South Asian women remain invisible in U.S. pop culture, they are now seen painted on Madonna's hands, glittering on her forehead, wrapped around her personal-trainer-trimmed white body. We are her toys, her fashion, her flavor of the month. We are alternative lifestyles full of spirituality, meditation, incense, homeopathy and relaxation. We are frozen samosas and TV-dinner channa masala at the local grocery and iced chai lattes at Starbucks. And suddenly now we are also frightening, fiendish and dangerous. We are fearing for our lives and livelihoods because we have been transformed from trinkets to terrorists. Our foreignness has become less charming and increasingly frightening. And Madonna's phase of wearing us on her body has only made it easier for us to be targeted. She reduced us, or reinforced an already existing reduction, to inhuman, fashionable baubles. And it is not difficult to stop giving visas to a bindi or a set of gold bangles. Nobody has qualms about jumping or shooting several yards of rich, luxurious silk. Who would mind throwing thousands of Buddha, Shiva and Laxmi print T-shirts into detention camps without explanation or lawyers? After all, ultra-fashionable tops do not need legal representation. So I think that when Madonna stretches the boundaries of Catholicism, uses a cross to criticize the racist, white supremacy and puritanical, sexually-repressive aspects of her religion, it is quite different than her playing dress-up with a culture that no one owns, but that she can still certainly exploit. I'm sure if she had not already dropped South Asian for Americana, she would have rapidly done so after Sept. 11, 2001. Or maybe her desire not to blend in with the post-Sept. 11 barrage of red, white and blue pasted across everyone and everything explains her recent switch to a Che Guevara style pseudo-revolutionary. We all know how she likes to be different, cutting-edge. I bet my grandmothers would be pleased to know that, a few years ago, they beat the world's most popular, trend-setting pop diva to the fashion finish line. ***** Source: Washington Square News [student newspaper of New York University]. Issue date: 12.02.2003. Article: "Why I hate Madonna: Subtle racisms and the exotification of my South Asian self," by Sriya Shrestha. URL: http://www.nyunews.com/brownstone/identity/6429.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 My friend Chuck Furnace's response to "Why I Hate Madonna." -- Len/ Kalipadma --------- Forwarded message ---------- "Chuck 2.0" <chuck418@c...> Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:00:29 -0400 Re: Why I Hate Madonna Interesting article. I got two main points out of it (3 if you count the reference to Madonna's "personal-trainer-trimmed white body") First is it's politically correct to make fun of or challenge your own culture, but racist if you make ANY reference to anyone else's, even positive references. "Two short bald Jews are walking into a bar and one of them says..." I can say that. "A Jew, and Irishman and a Hindu are walking into a Mosque and one of them says..." forbidden. Seems sort of limiting. I'm going to have to write some new material. Second, if we take the proposition that Madonna exemplifies popular culture (just perhaps) then American pop culture needs something new every two years to sell products. If your low slung extra wide jeans are more than a year old, then it's time to get with it and buy these new extra tight stovepipe tight black jeans with the zippers on the bottom. The content is less important than the process. It can be anything from sari and henna to Kabala tattoos (huh?), from S & M gear to Marilyn, so long as it's change and so long as it can sell products. Personally, I'm stifled by the current level of sensitivity and it's effect on any analysis of anthropological contrast. One can't compare the similarities and differences of different cultures without using some (qualified) generalizations. And understanding the world, understanding how similar values are expressed in different ways in different cultures, is the key to mutual respect. So we are left with a (forgive the expression) Black and White world, us or them, you are with us or with them mentality. And a lack of discussion, real discussion, not pretty words, leads us into Darkness. In my humble opinion. chuck 2.0 ______________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 I am not responding *smile* because then I will be labelled "Anti-western". (I am already called that by some) kalipadma wrote: My friend Chuck Furnace's response to "Why I Hate Madonna." -- Len/ Kalipadma --------- Forwarded message ---------- "Chuck 2.0" <chuck418@c...> Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:00:29 -0400 Re: Why I Hate Madonna Interesting article. I got two main points out of it (3 if you count the reference to Madonna's "personal-trainer-trimmed white body") First is it's politically correct to make fun of or challenge your own culture, but racist if you make ANY reference to anyone else's, even positive references. "Two short bald Jews are walking into a bar and one of them says..." I can say that. "A Jew, and Irishman and a Hindu are walking into a Mosque and one of them says..." forbidden. Seems sort of limiting. I'm going to have to write some new material. Second, if we take the proposition that Madonna exemplifies popular culture (just perhaps) then American pop culture needs something new every two years to sell products. If your low slung extra wide jeans are more than a year old, then it's time to get with it and buy these new extra tight stovepipe tight black jeans with the zippers on the bottom. The content is less important than the process. It can be anything from sari and henna to Kabala tattoos (huh?), from S & M gear to Marilyn, so long as it's change and so long as it can sell products. Personally, I'm stifled by the current level of sensitivity and it's effect on any analysis of anthropological contrast. One can't compare the similarities and differences of different cultures without using some (qualified) generalizations. And understanding the world, understanding how similar values are expressed in different ways in different cultures, is the key to mutual respect. So we are left with a (forgive the expression) Black and White world, us or them, you are with us or with them mentality. And a lack of discussion, real discussion, not pretty words, leads us into Darkness. In my humble opinion. chuck 2.0 ______________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! / Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Oh go ahead Kochu! No need to fear labels! *lol* DB , sankara menon <kochu1tz> wrote: > > I am not responding *smile* because then I will be labelled "Anti- western". > (I am already called that by some) > kalipadma@j... wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 The article by that student hating Madonna made me think of Nurse Ratchett in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Nurse Ratchett was made to personify all that was wrong with the mental institution by author Ken Kesey in Cuckoo's Nest. That's what the writer of that article did, using Madonna as Nurse Ratchett, and instead of the mental institution, the business-as-usual business world. Why is Madonna world-famous? Do southeast Asian and Hindu people buy her records? Does she play sold-out concerts in the East and far-East? Does she donate any proceeds to charities, or does she contribute to cultures who have inspired her art? If not, why not? Does anyone know? Has anyone asked her? From what I've read, she's doing some spiritual seeking, and she's also writing children's books that attempt to create, in children, more awareness of others, promoting more kind and loving attitudes between children. It's one thing to be prevented from expression of feeling by well-meaning but misguided "political correctness," and it's another thing to sling arrows and hate rather than direct energy in ways that create and develop a more loving, united world. I say, stop complaining and start creating. Here are some quotes I have seen recently that I like: "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "You cannot see anything that you do not first contemplate as a reality." - Ramtha , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > Oh go ahead Kochu! No need to fear labels! *lol* > > DB > > , sankara menon <kochu1tz> > wrote: > > > > I am not responding *smile* because then I will be labelled "Anti- > western". > > (I am already called that by some) > > kalipadma@j... wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 devi_bhakta> wrote: Oh go ahead Kochu! No need to fear labels! *lol* DB << Yeah, Kochu. Since when did you get so shy about stiring the pot. Especially when you know it will make people uncomfortable. ~SE101 , "Devi Bhakta" <devi_bhakta> wrote: > Oh go ahead Kochu! No need to fear labels! *lol* > > DB > > , sankara menon <kochu1tz> > wrote: > > > > I am not responding *smile* because then I will be labelled "Anti- > western". > > (I am already called that by some) > > kalipadma@j... wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Oh, the crucifix props were squawked about plenty at the time..I remember the Church all up in arms over that one, and everybody snickering. At the time, I remember thinking she would eventually do the family thing and then run back to the Church and brown-nose the Pope, and I was right about that, too. I suppose she dropped the Indian thing because of all those icky teachings about karma and renouncing the material...Now her latest religious trip is trying to get everyone to wear little red strings and celebrate Passover, and making "pilgrimages" to Israel. If she keeps that up in the public eye, she is liable to have a few irate Palestinians bearing gifts attend her concerts, which will end her career with a BANG. Lilith M. --- prainbow61 <paulie-rainbow wrote: > > Namaste DB, > > I'm really not sure about the point of this article. > Why would it be less offensive that > Madonna made crucifixes into props than when she > made saris into props? > > And I really don't believe in "reverse racism" > racism is racism, period. > > Overall, I think that there is a real problem with > the fact that the consumer culture in the > U.S. is blind and unthinking. We insist on one > language, we gun down brown people that > we mistake for other brown people...etc etc. We > don't take responsibility for our effects on > the world and we don't make it profitable for the > media to feed us anything but candy. > > The venom that is being spewed out at the female pop > idols that are at the front of this > makes no sense to me. Why isn't there a thread about > Rupert Murdoch? > > To me, attacking the symptom is just another way of > refusing to recognize the real > problem. > > Blessings, > > pr > > , "Devi Bhakta" > <devi_bhakta> wrote: > > > > [i posted this once before, back when it first > came out, but I can't > > find it in the archives now, so here it is again > -- for those who are > > riding this strange Madonna thread:] > > > > WHY I HATE MADONNA: > > Subtle Racisms and the Exotification of My South > Asian Self > > > > by Sriya Shrestha > > > > Sitting in NYU classrooms, I am struck by the > extremely light, tiptoe > > approach students take when it comes to racial > issues. They strain to > > make sure they leave only tiny marks behind, > nothing to offend > > anyone. Nothing can be said, no generalizations > can be made, because > > that would be prejudiced, stereotypical and > negative. > > > > Yet in taking these painfully planned baby steps, > most manage to be > > grossly ignorant, racist and ridiculous - usually > without even > > noticing. Still, everyone continues to strain for > those tiny steps. > > During a small group discussion on everyday racism > in my South Asian > > diaspora class, my classmates were constantly > qualifying their > > statements: "Not all [blanks] do this, of course, > just some." When I > > mentioned that I am often exotified, seen with > disgusting oriental > > fantasies by white men, and never Asian men, my > white male groupmate > > delicately reminded me I was on the verge of > making a gross > > generalization. I replied that it was not a > generalization; it was > > the truth. But wait, I was reminded, you don't > want to say that all > > white men would look at you like that and that no > Asian men would. > > That is true; I did not want to say that, and I > hadn't. > > > > What I think my concerned classmate was doing was > simply mentioning > > that some - not him necessarily - may think I was > being a reverse- > > racist. And I believe this same deep-seated white > fear of reverse > > racism fueled the sudden, fierce anger expressed > by some white (or > > should I call them Caucasian?) students during a > later discussion at > > the idea that perhaps there was something slightly > more offensive > > about Madonna wearing a bindi, sari and henna then > there was about > > her donning and defaming the Catholic cross. White > kids think the > > same rules apply to them, about what can be said > and what can't, and > > in my experience many students of color feel the > same way. Nearly > > everyone at NYU shudders at the thought of > offending anyone, but what > > they lack is actual knowledge of what is > offensive, how and why. > > Rather, they attempt to be politically correct, > using terms like > > African-American and Hispanic, but still managing > to claim that a > > black student has the same benefits as a white one > if they both come > > from an elite private school or that Latino > immigrant workers should > > be grateful for the low-wage, exploitative jobs > they find in the > > United States. These PC pushers still manage to be > out of touch with > > reality, out of touch with what racism, sexism, > heterosexism and > > prejudice really is. > > > > They do not understand that a history exists that > makes Madonna's > > flippant, fleeting usage of South Asian-Hindu > fashion and culture a > > bit offensive. A history in which we have been the > source of the > > West's stories of mystery, enchantment, oddity and > the exotic. We > > have always been trinkets and charming tales. We > are brass pots and > > spiritual men who can float; and tongue-tickling > spices and thick, > > luxurious rugs; and skinny, starvation-swelled > bellies standing in a > > brown mass waiting to be saved by British food and > religion. We are > > the women who, due to a lack of a strong > Western-style feminism, > > starve, suffocate and drown our baby girls for not > being baby boys. > > We are anything but human. > > > > And now, many years after British colonialism, in > a global market run > > by U.S. imperialism, we are once again remembered > by our trinkets. > > While South Asian women remain invisible in U.S. > pop culture, they > > are now seen painted on Madonna's hands, > glittering on her forehead, > > wrapped around her personal-trainer-trimmed white > body. We are her > > toys, her fashion, her flavor of the month. We are > alternative > > lifestyles full of spirituality, meditation, > incense, homeopathy and > > relaxation. We are frozen samosas and TV-dinner > channa masala at the > > local grocery and iced chai lattes at Starbucks. > > > > And suddenly now we are also frightening, fiendish > and dangerous. We > > are fearing for our lives and livelihoods because > we have been > > transformed from trinkets to terrorists. Our > foreignness has become > > less charming and increasingly frightening. And > Madonna's phase of > > wearing us on her body has only made it easier for > us to be targeted. > > She reduced us, or reinforced an already existing > reduction, to > > inhuman, fashionable baubles. And it is not > difficult to stop giving > > visas to a bindi or a set of gold bangles. Nobody > has qualms about > > jumping or shooting several yards of rich, > luxurious silk. Who would > > mind throwing thousands of Buddha, Shiva and Laxmi > print T-shirts > > into detention camps without explanation or > lawyers? After all, ultra- > > fashionable tops do not need legal representation. > > > > > So I think that when Madonna stretches the > boundaries of Catholicism, > > uses a cross to criticize the racist, white > supremacy and > > puritanical, sexually-repressive aspects of her > religion, it is quite > > different than her playing dress-up with a culture > that no one owns, > > but that she can still certainly exploit. I'm sure > if she had not > === message truncated === Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail./mail_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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